Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:24 PM - PLEASE READ - Pending ISP Upgrade For Matronics... (Matt Dralle)
2. 03:39 PM - Re: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 04:42 PM - Re: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners (Frank Haertlein)
4. 05:28 PM - Re: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 05:34 PM - Re: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 06:04 PM - Re: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners (Gus Fraser)
7. 07:35 PM - Re: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | PLEASE READ - Pending ISP Upgrade For Matronics... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Matronics Listers,
Sometime during the next 72 hours, the ISP (Internet Service Provider) for
Matronics will be upgrading the level of service to 1.1Mb from the current
768k. When they reprovision the line, there will be an outage requiring
that the local router here be restarted. It is also unclear whether or not
the physical line will support the new rate, so some testing will be
required to verify the new service at the time of installation.
Unfortunately, I don't really have an idea of exactly when they will be
reprovisioning the line, so I wanted to give everyone a heads up on what's
going on. All Matronics List services such as email list redistribution,
subscriptions, and web search and browse will be unavailable during the
upgrade.
In other upgrade news, last Thursday, 3/13/03 I upgraded the firewall
appliance between the Internet and the Matronics systems. This new
firewall represents a substantial increase in performance and hopefully
reliability over the previous system. It will compliment nicely the new
level of ISP connectivity.
Finally, these are just two examples of the upgrades brought to you
compliments of the 2002 List Fund Raiser. A special thanks to all that
made a Contribution in 2002 and so far this year! Everyone that uses these
Lists appreciates your generosity!
I will post a short message again if I manage to get some clear direction
on the time-frame for upgrade, or perhaps when its been completed.
Thanks again!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
There's three sides to every story, babe. There's your's;
there's mine; and there's the cold, hard truth...
Don Henley
Long Way Home, 1982
Do Not Archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Scott,
THE most important question you should ask any Yak 18T owner is what
Experimental category is it registered in? If it goes into Experimental -
Other, the operating limitations are extremely restrictive; take-off and
land ONLY at your home base airport. If it is in a different category,
would you please post that information since other FSDO's have said the
appropriate category is OTHER. That's why there are so few of them in the
U.S. Less than 10 on the US aircraft registry if I'm not mistaken.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: <scott.huff@aivia.aero>
Subject: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
> --> Yak-List message posted by: scott.huff@aivia.aero
>
> Greetings Yak fans,
>
> My name is Scott Huff and this is my first post to the Yak forum. I've
enjoyed
> reading the thread digest over the last several days and I'm very
impressed
> with the free exchange of Yak knowledge. As a former Grumman owner, I've
come
> to appreciate the strength found in a group such as this.
>
> I'm not currently a Yak owner, however I am seriously interested in
purchasing
> an 18T within the next 8 to 12 months. I've had the privilege of flying,
on
> two occasions, with Mr. Bruce Merrifield (N189AK) based in Southern
> California. Bruce has been a great source of knowledge and I can't thank
him
> enough for allowing me to climb, sit, inspect, fly, and drool over his
> beautiful 18T.
>
> As I continue my pre-purchase research, I'd really like to talk to other
18T
> owners about their aircraft. Not only would I like to gain their
perspective
> on operating/owning this incredible aircraft, but I would greatly
appreciate
> any leads when it comes time to purchasing my own. I've communicated with
> several Yak importers/suppliers (in the US, UK, and Lithuania) ... but I
would
> really like some strong references before committing financially. There
> happens to be a 18T for sale in Virgina Beach, but Bill of Sale issues and
the
> overall condition of the aircraft are beyond my comfort level. It is
> essentially a "project" aircraft, where as I'm more interested in a
turn-key
> arrangement.
>
> Any advice, contact information, or other feedback on the 18T from the
> subscribers of this list would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in
advance
> for your time!
>
> Respectfully,
> Scott Huff
> president - AIVIA
> Aircraft Sales & Charter
> Virginia Beach, VA
> 757.301.2927
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Dennis;
Seems to me that the 18T is aerobatic. Doesn't that qualify it for
Experimental Exhibition? He may need to stress that fact during his
airworthiness inspection. Who knows, maybe it was used by the military
forces to ferry personnel and engage in other flight training or
government activities ;) HHMMMMM, seems to me some were used by the
KGB....weren't they? ;) Wink, Wink............
Well, at least that's what I might tell em' to get the Experimental
Exhibition cert. How does the FAA know any different?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Scott,
THE most important question you should ask any Yak 18T owner is what
Experimental category is it registered in? If it goes into Experimental
- Other, the operating limitations are extremely restrictive; take-off
and
land ONLY at your home base airport. If it is in a different category,
would you please post that information since other FSDO's have said the
appropriate category is OTHER. That's why there are so few of them in
the U.S. Less than 10 on the US aircraft registry if I'm not mistaken.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: <scott.huff@aivia.aero>
Subject: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
> --> Yak-List message posted by: scott.huff@aivia.aero
>
> Greetings Yak fans,
>
> My name is Scott Huff and this is my first post to the Yak forum.
> I've
enjoyed
> reading the thread digest over the last several days and I'm very
impressed
> with the free exchange of Yak knowledge. As a former Grumman owner,
> I've
come
> to appreciate the strength found in a group such as this.
>
> I'm not currently a Yak owner, however I am seriously interested in
purchasing
> an 18T within the next 8 to 12 months. I've had the privilege of
> flying,
on
> two occasions, with Mr. Bruce Merrifield (N189AK) based in Southern
> California. Bruce has been a great source of knowledge and I can't
> thank
him
> enough for allowing me to climb, sit, inspect, fly, and drool over his
> beautiful 18T.
>
> As I continue my pre-purchase research, I'd really like to talk to
> other
18T
> owners about their aircraft. Not only would I like to gain their
perspective
> on operating/owning this incredible aircraft, but I would greatly
appreciate
> any leads when it comes time to purchasing my own. I've communicated
> with several Yak importers/suppliers (in the US, UK, and Lithuania)
> ... but I
would
> really like some strong references before committing financially.
> There happens to be a 18T for sale in Virgina Beach, but Bill of Sale
> issues and
the
> overall condition of the aircraft are beyond my comfort level. It is
> essentially a "project" aircraft, where as I'm more interested in a
turn-key
> arrangement.
>
> Any advice, contact information, or other feedback on the 18T from the
> subscribers of this list would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in
advance
> for your time!
>
> Respectfully,
> Scott Huff
> president - AIVIA
> Aircraft Sales & Charter
> Virginia Beach, VA
> 757.301.2927
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Yes it is Exhibition, but I guess I should have said what GROUP is it in.
Our CJ's and 52's are Group 3, piston powered warbirds etc. However if you
read FAA Order 8130.2D Change 3, the description of Group III, Piston
Powered: Warbirds, Vintage, Replica, and Unique Aircraft, the 18T by the
FAA's interpretation of the description, " (1) Description of Aircraft. This
group includes former military aircraft that were designed for military
operations. Vintage aircraft are those aircraft that were designed prior to
1945. Replica aircraft are those aircraft that have the same external
configuration as an aircraft that was designed prior to 1945. Unique
aircraft means those aircraft that are one-of-a-kind." The 18T really
doesn't fit into this category. So that leaves Group IV, OTHER which is a
real bummer.
Here again, the presiding factor in my mind is what the other let's were
certified in. If an 18T was certified in Group III, then the inspectors
don't have to re-invent the wheel. If you can show them a valid set of
operating limitations, it will most likely fly (no pun intended). Make
sense?
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Dennis;
> Seems to me that the 18T is aerobatic. Doesn't that qualify it for
> Experimental Exhibition? He may need to stress that fact during his
> airworthiness inspection. Who knows, maybe it was used by the military
> forces to ferry personnel and engage in other flight training or
> government activities ;) HHMMMMM, seems to me some were used by the
> KGB....weren't they? ;) Wink, Wink............
>
> Well, at least that's what I might tell em' to get the Experimental
> Exhibition cert. How does the FAA know any different?
> Frank
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
> Savarese
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> Scott,
> THE most important question you should ask any Yak 18T owner is what
> Experimental category is it registered in? If it goes into Experimental
> - Other, the operating limitations are extremely restrictive; take-off
> and
> land ONLY at your home base airport. If it is in a different category,
> would you please post that information since other FSDO's have said the
> appropriate category is OTHER. That's why there are so few of them in
> the U.S. Less than 10 on the US aircraft registry if I'm not mistaken.
> Dennis Savarese
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <scott.huff@aivia.aero>
> To: "Yak Email List" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: scott.huff@aivia.aero
> >
> > Greetings Yak fans,
> >
> > My name is Scott Huff and this is my first post to the Yak forum.
> > I've
> enjoyed
> > reading the thread digest over the last several days and I'm very
> impressed
> > with the free exchange of Yak knowledge. As a former Grumman owner,
> > I've
> come
> > to appreciate the strength found in a group such as this.
> >
> > I'm not currently a Yak owner, however I am seriously interested in
> purchasing
> > an 18T within the next 8 to 12 months. I've had the privilege of
> > flying,
> on
> > two occasions, with Mr. Bruce Merrifield (N189AK) based in Southern
> > California. Bruce has been a great source of knowledge and I can't
> > thank
> him
> > enough for allowing me to climb, sit, inspect, fly, and drool over his
>
> > beautiful 18T.
> >
> > As I continue my pre-purchase research, I'd really like to talk to
> > other
> 18T
> > owners about their aircraft. Not only would I like to gain their
> perspective
> > on operating/owning this incredible aircraft, but I would greatly
> appreciate
> > any leads when it comes time to purchasing my own. I've communicated
> > with several Yak importers/suppliers (in the US, UK, and Lithuania)
> > ... but I
> would
> > really like some strong references before committing financially.
> > There happens to be a 18T for sale in Virgina Beach, but Bill of Sale
> > issues and
> the
> > overall condition of the aircraft are beyond my comfort level. It is
> > essentially a "project" aircraft, where as I'm more interested in a
> turn-key
> > arrangement.
> >
> > Any advice, contact information, or other feedback on the 18T from the
>
> > subscribers of this list would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in
> advance
> > for your time!
> >
> > Respectfully,
> > Scott Huff
> > president - AIVIA
> > Aircraft Sales & Charter
> > Virginia Beach, VA
> > 757.301.2927
> >
> >
>
>
> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Excellent advice Gus. You are right on the money. AN2's are Experimental,
Exhibition, Group IV, Other. They are even mentioned in the FAA Order
description for Group IV. A BIG problem! As the FAA order says, "(3)
Proficiency Area. The proficiency area is limited to a non-stop flight that
begins and ends at the airport where the aircraft is based, with sufficient
fuel reserve to meet the applicable operating rules of part 91. An
alternate airport selection is not available for aircraft in this group."
This limits the use of the 18T severely.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> Scott,
> Welcome to the list. I do not know that much about the 18T apart from
> experiences of a friend in England who had one. I would suggest that
before
> you go ahead and buy one try to get some guidance on the type of operating
> limitations you will get for an 18T. You and I know the aircraft as a very
> good and capable tourer that if you can fit it in it will carry it. The
FAA
> however may not see it that way. The last thing that you want is an
aircraft
> that you can only operate to and from your home field.
>
> I know that some AN2 owners have had a really rough time using their
> aircraft. That said I am not sure if this is a real issue but it is
> definitely worth checking into.
>
> As far as a YAK18T on this list:-
>
> If its round, Russian, noisy, and feels like a WW2 aircraft, we love it
> here.
>
> Gus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> scott.huff@aivia.aero
> To: Yak Email List
> Subject: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: scott.huff@aivia.aero
>
> Greetings Yak fans,
>
> My name is Scott Huff and this is my first post to the Yak forum. I've
> enjoyed
> reading the thread digest over the last several days and I'm very
impressed
> with the free exchange of Yak knowledge. As a former Grumman owner, I've
> come
> to appreciate the strength found in a group such as this.
>
> I'm not currently a Yak owner, however I am seriously interested in
> purchasing
> an 18T within the next 8 to 12 months. I've had the privilege of flying,
on
> two occasions, with Mr. Bruce Merrifield (N189AK) based in Southern
> California. Bruce has been a great source of knowledge and I can't thank
> him
> enough for allowing me to climb, sit, inspect, fly, and drool over his
> beautiful 18T.
>
> As I continue my pre-purchase research, I'd really like to talk to other
18T
> owners about their aircraft. Not only would I like to gain their
> perspective
> on operating/owning this incredible aircraft, but I would greatly
appreciate
> any leads when it comes time to purchasing my own. I've communicated with
> several Yak importers/suppliers (in the US, UK, and Lithuania) ... but I
> would
> really like some strong references before committing financially. There
> happens to be a 18T for sale in Virgina Beach, but Bill of Sale issues and
> the
> overall condition of the aircraft are beyond my comfort level. It is
> essentially a "project" aircraft, where as I'm more interested in a
turn-key
> arrangement.
>
> Any advice, contact information, or other feedback on the 18T from the
> subscribers of this list would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in
advance
> for your time!
>
> Respectfully,
> Scott Huff
> president - AIVIA
> Aircraft Sales & Charter
> Virginia Beach, VA
> 757.301.2927
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
I suppose that there may be a chance for the 18T that has been fitted with
the 750HP turbine engine it is currently a one of a kind :)
Scott,
There are other options available. Some Wilgas are standard category. You
should look into the IAR 823
It is basically a Romanian Mooney. It even has a US engine it does 160kts
and has a useful load of 1200lbs. it also has a G loading of +5 -3 (if I
remember right at max gross).
The supply is limited and as they are ex military there is no problem with
the FAA status of the aircraft. George Coy at Gesoco has a couple, maybe
still for sale. I spoke to him recently and he said he was trying to locate
some more.
Hope this helps
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Excellent advice Gus. You are right on the money. AN2's are Experimental,
Exhibition, Group IV, Other. They are even mentioned in the FAA Order
description for Group IV. A BIG problem! As the FAA order says, "(3)
Proficiency Area. The proficiency area is limited to a non-stop flight that
begins and ends at the airport where the aircraft is based, with sufficient
fuel reserve to meet the applicable operating rules of part 91. An
alternate airport selection is not available for aircraft in this group."
This limits the use of the 18T severely.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> Scott,
> Welcome to the list. I do not know that much about the 18T apart from
> experiences of a friend in England who had one. I would suggest that
before
> you go ahead and buy one try to get some guidance on the type of operating
> limitations you will get for an 18T. You and I know the aircraft as a very
> good and capable tourer that if you can fit it in it will carry it. The
FAA
> however may not see it that way. The last thing that you want is an
aircraft
> that you can only operate to and from your home field.
>
> I know that some AN2 owners have had a really rough time using their
> aircraft. That said I am not sure if this is a real issue but it is
> definitely worth checking into.
>
> As far as a YAK18T on this list:-
>
> If its round, Russian, noisy, and feels like a WW2 aircraft, we love it
> here.
>
> Gus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> scott.huff@aivia.aero
> To: Yak Email List
> Subject: Yak-List: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: scott.huff@aivia.aero
>
> Greetings Yak fans,
>
> My name is Scott Huff and this is my first post to the Yak forum. I've
> enjoyed
> reading the thread digest over the last several days and I'm very
impressed
> with the free exchange of Yak knowledge. As a former Grumman owner, I've
> come
> to appreciate the strength found in a group such as this.
>
> I'm not currently a Yak owner, however I am seriously interested in
> purchasing
> an 18T within the next 8 to 12 months. I've had the privilege of flying,
on
> two occasions, with Mr. Bruce Merrifield (N189AK) based in Southern
> California. Bruce has been a great source of knowledge and I can't thank
> him
> enough for allowing me to climb, sit, inspect, fly, and drool over his
> beautiful 18T.
>
> As I continue my pre-purchase research, I'd really like to talk to other
18T
> owners about their aircraft. Not only would I like to gain their
> perspective
> on operating/owning this incredible aircraft, but I would greatly
appreciate
> any leads when it comes time to purchasing my own. I've communicated with
> several Yak importers/suppliers (in the US, UK, and Lithuania) ... but I
> would
> really like some strong references before committing financially. There
> happens to be a 18T for sale in Virgina Beach, but Bill of Sale issues and
> the
> overall condition of the aircraft are beyond my comfort level. It is
> essentially a "project" aircraft, where as I'm more interested in a
turn-key
> arrangement.
>
> Any advice, contact information, or other feedback on the 18T from the
> subscribers of this list would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in
advance
> for your time!
>
> Respectfully,
> Scott Huff
> president - AIVIA
> Aircraft Sales & Charter
> Virginia Beach, VA
> 757.301.2927
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Would like to talk with Yak 18T Owners |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 3/16/2003 8:29:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
adsavar@gte.net writes:
I'm fairly sure you will find the Yak-18 in the same GroupIII as us CJs and
such. I believe the airplane qualifies as military because they were used as
instrument trainers by the military over there. I'm not an expert on this
airplane at all, most of this is hearsay. You can go to the FAA data base on
www.faa.gov and look for Yak-18 owners. One guy who has one is Lloyd Epperly
down in southern FL. who can give you the straight scoop on it. I believe
the Group IV has more to do with the horsepower than anything, correct?
> -List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> Yes it is Exhibition, but I guess I should have said what GROUP is it in.
> Our CJ's and 52's are Group 3, piston powered warbirds etc. However if you
> read FAA Order 8130.2D Change 3, the description of Group III, Piston
> Powered: Warbirds, Vintage, Replica, and Unique Aircraft, the 18T by the
> FAA's interpretation of the description, " (1) Description of Aircraft.
> This
> group includes former military aircraft that were designed for military
> operations. Vintage aircraft are those aircraft that were designed prior to
> 1945. Replica aircraft are those aircraft that have the same external
> configuration as an aircraft that was designed prior to 1945. Unique
> aircraft means those aircraft that are one-of-a-kind." The 18T really
> doesn't fit into this category. So that leaves Group IV, OTHER which is a
> real bummer.
>
> Here again, the presiding factor in my mind is what the other let's were
> certified in. If an 18T was certified in Group III, then the inspectors
> don't have to re-invent the wheel. If you can show them a valid set of
> operating limitations, it will most likely fly (no pun intended). Make
> sense?
>
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
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