Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:31 AM - Re: Yak-52 Flap Speed tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, (Bob Monzo)
2. 04:58 AM - Re: Yak-52 Flap Speed tests (Gus Fraser)
3. 11:19 AM - Question on the AK-50T compressor (William Halverson)
4. 12:32 PM - gear and flap speeds for CJ6A (Brian Lloyd)
5. 01:58 PM - [ Gus Fraser ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
6. 02:22 PM - Re: Question on the AK-50T compressor (Wes Warner)
7. 03:51 PM - Re: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A (Walt Lannon)
8. 05:51 PM - Re: Question on the AK-50T compressor (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 06:13 PM - Re: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, (Brian Lloyd)
10. 06:18 PM - gear and flap speeds for CJ6A (Brian Lloyd)
11. 07:12 PM - Re: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A (Walt Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-52 Flap Speed tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bob Monzo" <yakpilot@wideopenwest.com>
Hi Walt:
The Yak-52 Flight Manual lists the maximum speed with gear extended as 200
km/h which is 108 kts. Thx.
Bob M.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Flap Speed
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
>
> Thanks Bob;
>
> The CJ flight manual does not give a specific flap or gear limit but does
> specify a maximum for circuit procedures. Interestingly this is 170
Km/Hr -
> the same as the 52 flap limit. Does the 52 Manual list a gear extend
limit?
>
> Cheers;
> Walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Monzo" <yakpilot@wideopenwest.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak-52 Flap Speed
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bob Monzo" <yakpilot@wideopenwest.com>
> >
> > Someone requested the flap speed for the Yak-52. Per the Yak-52 Flight
> Manual, the maximum speed with flaps extended is 170 km/h. If my math is
> correct, this is 92 kts.
> >
> > Bob M.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Yak-52 Flap Speed tests |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
200KPH is gear extension 170KPH is flap extension. Bob you may want to check
the manual.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Monzo
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Flap Speed
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bob Monzo" <yakpilot@wideopenwest.com>
Hi Walt:
The Yak-52 Flight Manual lists the maximum speed with gear extended as 200
km/h which is 108 kts. Thx.
Bob M.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52 Flap Speed
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
>
> Thanks Bob;
>
> The CJ flight manual does not give a specific flap or gear limit but does
> specify a maximum for circuit procedures. Interestingly this is 170
Km/Hr -
> the same as the 52 flap limit. Does the 52 Manual list a gear extend
limit?
>
> Cheers;
> Walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Monzo" <yakpilot@wideopenwest.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak-52 Flap Speed
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bob Monzo" <yakpilot@wideopenwest.com>
> >
> > Someone requested the flap speed for the Yak-52. Per the Yak-52 Flight
> Manual, the maximum speed with flaps extended is 170 km/h. If my math is
> correct, this is 92 kts.
> >
> > Bob M.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Question on the AK-50T compressor |
--> Yak-List message posted by: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
Hi Guys -
Like your opinion/advice on this ...
The compressor stopped charging - I assumed it was a broke coupler as it
worked one day but not the next. A new coupler was installed but did
not fix the problem. The mechanic then cleaned the 'pop' valves inside
the compressor and at the outlet side of the compressor to ensure they
are working freely. After all that, there is only a very faint output on
the high pressure line even with the engine at 60% RPM. The compressor
and engine has about 70 hrs and 18 months since an overhaul.
So the question: Would gas pressure leaking around the rings produce
this symptom? How would we check if pressure is leaking around the
rings? And if so, how is that fixed? The drawing of the starting system
I have (the bid color poster "Starting System Engine M-14P") shows the
following devices between the compressor's HP output and the
"Electromagnetic cock" which I assume is connected to the button used to
start the engine:
- filter sump
- safety valve
- filter
- non return valve
I know where the filter sump is (engine compartment on the firewall ,
left side below the oil tank) but where are those other devices? In the
belly below the cockpit floorboard? The drawing does not show the air
pressure gauge so I know it's not a complete description of the air system.
Thanks in advance to the group!
Bill Halverson
YAK-55
N355YK
Message 4
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| Subject: | gear and flap speeds for CJ6A |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
With the discussion of gear and flap speeds for the Yak-52 I was wondering if
anyone ever determined what the proper gear and flap speeds are for the CJ6A?
I
have been using (and teaching) the Yakity-Yaks-provided speeds of 130 kts and
108 kts respectively. If these are not correct, I need to update the check-list
and operating limitations on the CJ6 web site.
Also, if it is not correct, I would like to point out to Mike McCoy that one
can't always trust information provided in person since there is no check on
what anyone says in a private conversation. Much better to ask and answer on an
open mailing list because then you have the scrutiny of hundreds of eyes
checking for errors.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 5
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| Subject: | [ Gus Fraser ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Subject: Tach generator for Yak 52 problem
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/fraseg@comcast.net.03.23.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
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6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Question on the AK-50T compressor |
Mail-Followup-To: Wes Warner <wes@lppcs.com>, yak-list@matronics.com
--> Yak-List message posted by: Wes Warner <wes@lppcs.com>
Bill,
I had the same problem on my 55. I didn't install a new coupler though.
I sent my compressor to Carl Hays to have it rebuilt. After I got it back,
my system charged at a remarkable rate. I have since installed a completely
new air system (except for the start button) that has an in cockpit
compressor relief. The stock system on my plane just popped off a valve
every time it reached full pressure. I only have about 25hrs. on the
compressor since rebuild, but it still seems to be going strong. Hope that
helps.
Wes
On Sun, Mar 23, 2003 at 11:25:10AM -0800, William Halverson wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
>
> Hi Guys -
>
> Like your opinion/advice on this ...
>
> The compressor stopped charging - I assumed it was a broke coupler as it
> worked one day but not the next. A new coupler was installed but did
> not fix the problem. The mechanic then cleaned the 'pop' valves inside
> the compressor and at the outlet side of the compressor to ensure they
> are working freely. After all that, there is only a very faint output on
> the high pressure line even with the engine at 60% RPM. The compressor
> and engine has about 70 hrs and 18 months since an overhaul.
>
> So the question: Would gas pressure leaking around the rings produce
> this symptom? How would we check if pressure is leaking around the
> rings? And if so, how is that fixed? The drawing of the starting system
> I have (the bid color poster "Starting System Engine M-14P") shows the
> following devices between the compressor's HP output and the
> "Electromagnetic cock" which I assume is connected to the button used to
> start the engine:
>
> - filter sump
> - safety valve
> - filter
> - non return valve
>
> I know where the filter sump is (engine compartment on the firewall ,
> left side below the oil tank) but where are those other devices? In the
> belly below the cockpit floorboard? The drawing does not show the air
> pressure gauge so I know it's not a complete description of the air system.
>
>
> Thanks in advance to the group!
>
> Bill Halverson
>
> YAK-55
> N355YK
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A |
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Hi Brian;
OK, I'll bite!
It was me that asked the questions re Yak52 flap & gear speeds. If you
recall we had some discussion of the CJ limits a few weeks back. I recommend
and use 110kts gear and 90kts flap and provide those numbers with my placard
set, unless the customer is adamant about something else. The customer is
always right?
I arrived at those numbers by evaluating the the CJ gear and flap structures
in direct comparison with the T6 and T34 which were readily available. I
have not had any access to the Yak 52 so thought I should ask the questions.
In addition the CJ Flight Manual suggests that the limit speed for both gear
and flap is 170 km/hr (92kts) and it turns out that the 52 flap speed is
exactly that. The gear speed, sensibly, is higher at 200km/hr (108kt). I
would presume (usually not a good idea) that the 52 flap structure is the
same as the CJ.
Until your post I was not aware that Yakkity Yaks had produced the 108 and
130kt limits for the CJ. I don't know how they were arrived at but it's
interesting to note that these are the T6 limits (125 & 150 mph).
If you think it necessary to abide strictly by the published limits then it
is 92 kts for both gear and flap. The Flight manual shows a maximum of 170
km/hr for all circuit procedures. Given the type of structure and the single
point actuation loading I think this is right on for the flap.
Interesting point - The T6 flap limit of 125 Mph (108.6 Kts) which is a
military limit was reduced by the FAA to 97 Kts for civil certification.
(Ref: FAA Aircraft Spec. A-2-575)
The gear?? I am comfortable with a maximum of 110 Kts but that is only my
WAG! The guess is backed up with a few years experience but it is NOT a
legally documented limit.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Yak-List: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> With the discussion of gear and flap speeds for the Yak-52 I was wondering
if
> anyone ever determined what the proper gear and flap speeds are for the
CJ6A? I
> have been using (and teaching) the Yakity-Yaks-provided speeds of 130 kts
and
> 108 kts respectively. If these are not correct, I need to update the
check-list
> and operating limitations on the CJ6 web site.
>
> Also, if it is not correct, I would like to point out to Mike McCoy that
one
> can't always trust information provided in person since there is no check
on
> what anyone says in a private conversation. Much better to ask and answer
on an
> open mailing list because then you have the scrutiny of hundreds of eyes
> checking for errors.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Question on the AK-50T compressor |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Bill,
It would be best to have Carl Hays (M14 expert and overhauler) overhaul the
top end of the compressor. Carl can be reached at 858-292-7222. He's in
San Diego, CA.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Halverson" <william@netpros.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Question on the AK-50T compressor
> --> Yak-List message posted by: William Halverson <william@netpros.net>
>
> Hi Guys -
>
> Like your opinion/advice on this ...
>
> The compressor stopped charging - I assumed it was a broke coupler as it
> worked one day but not the next. A new coupler was installed but did
> not fix the problem. The mechanic then cleaned the 'pop' valves inside
> the compressor and at the outlet side of the compressor to ensure they
> are working freely. After all that, there is only a very faint output on
> the high pressure line even with the engine at 60% RPM. The compressor
> and engine has about 70 hrs and 18 months since an overhaul.
>
> So the question: Would gas pressure leaking around the rings produce
> this symptom? How would we check if pressure is leaking around the
> rings? And if so, how is that fixed? The drawing of the starting system
> I have (the bid color poster "Starting System Engine M-14P") shows the
> following devices between the compressor's HP output and the
> "Electromagnetic cock" which I assume is connected to the button used to
> start the engine:
>
> - filter sump
> - safety valve
> - filter
> - non return valve
>
> I know where the filter sump is (engine compartment on the firewall ,
> left side below the oil tank) but where are those other devices? In the
> belly below the cockpit floorboard? The drawing does not show the air
> pressure gauge so I know it's not a complete description of the air
system.
>
>
> Thanks in advance to the group!
>
> Bill Halverson
>
> YAK-55
> N355YK
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02, |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Walt Lannon wrote:
> OK, I'll bite!
Good, I am glad someone did.
> It was me that asked the questions re Yak52 flap & gear speeds. If you
> recall we had some discussion of the CJ limits a few weeks back. I recommend
> and use 110kts gear and 90kts flap and provide those numbers with my placard
> set, unless the customer is adamant about something else. The customer is
> always right?
Not always. Sometimes it takes great tact to explain that too.
> I arrived at those numbers by evaluating the the CJ gear and flap structures
> in direct comparison with the T6 and T34 which were readily available. I
> have not had any access to the Yak 52 so thought I should ask the questions.
> In addition the CJ Flight Manual suggests that the limit speed for both gear
> and flap is 170 km/hr (92kts)
That does seem awfully low, at least for gear speed.
> and it turns out that the 52 flap speed is
> exactly that. The gear speed, sensibly, is higher at 200km/hr (108kt). I
> would presume (usually not a good idea) that the 52 flap structure is the
> same as the CJ.
I have not compared them and give that the airplanes are so different, I
wouldn't presume to assume they would be the same.
> Until your post I was not aware that Yakkity Yaks had produced the 108 and
> 130kt limits for the CJ. I don't know how they were arrived at but it's
> interesting to note that these are the T6 limits (125 & 150 mph).
Fred taught me that and the spiral-bound checklist provided with the airplane
has those limits, albeit listed in km/hr which I translated into kts. Given
Mike's joy at correcting me and since he has never corrected these numbers in
spite of my repeated requests to ensure that I am using the proper number, I
presume they are the numbers he also uses in his training. (Feel free to chime
in here Mike.)
> If you think it necessary to abide strictly by the published limits then it
> is 92 kts for both gear and flap. The Flight manual shows a maximum of 170
> km/hr for all circuit procedures. Given the type of structure and the single
> point actuation loading I think this is right on for the flap.
> Interesting point - The T6 flap limit of 125 Mph (108.6 Kts) which is a
> military limit was reduced by the FAA to 97 Kts for civil certification.
> (Ref: FAA Aircraft Spec. A-2-575)
Interesting.
> The gear?? I am comfortable with a maximum of 110 Kts but that is only my
> WAG! The guess is backed up with a few years experience but it is NOT a
> legally documented limit.
I used 130 knots for the gear speed the entire time I owned and flew Betty. In
formation training we have used 130 knots for quite some time, what with trying
to enter the break at 150 kts so that we bleed off the requisite 20 kts in the
pull, thus putting us at 130 kts as we roll out on downwind, the gear-down point.
I now wonder where the 130 kt gear speed and the 108 kt flap speed came from
since it does seem rather odd that they are the exact same speeds as the SNJ.
Jim Goolsby: is there any chance you can query our friends in China as to the
maximum gear and flap extension speeds?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 10
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| Subject: | gear and flap speeds for CJ6A |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
OK, I was being dense. I see a posting from Jim Goolsby with some information
from Bushi Cheng. The message infers that the speeds for the CJ6A should be
relatively similar to the T34 but it doesn't give the speeds. What are the gear
and flap speeds for the T34?
So it seems safe to assume that the Yakity-Yaks-provided numbers of 130kt/108kt
bear and flap speeds are incorrect. Would someone please give me actual numbers
to use? Thanks.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A |
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Brian et al;
Gear and flap limit speeds for the T34 are 110 Kts for both. This is taken
from the USN NATOPS Flight Manual for the T34B, NAV AIR 01-90KDB-1. I don't
have the equivalent USAF T.O. or a copy of the Type Certificate Data Sheet
at hand.
There are structural similarities, gear door sizes, etc. that would indicate
a reasonable match to the CJ for the gear limit. Door attachment is somewhat
better on the T34.
The flap however bears no relationship whatsoever to the CJ. The CJ has a
split flap very similar to the T6/SNJ/Harvard which is very shallow in depth
and is open on one surface. The T34 is a Fowler type flap which is fully
enclosed, of considerably greater depth and therefore capable of
withstanding greater torsional loading.
In addition the T34 flap is track mounted offering much increased load
distribution over the single point support of the CJ. The T6 flap load is
also well distributed over the span by push rods spaced at approx. 16".
Regards;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Yak-List: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> OK, I was being dense. I see a posting from Jim Goolsby with some
information
> from Bushi Cheng. The message infers that the speeds for the CJ6A should
be
> relatively similar to the T34 but it doesn't give the speeds. What are
the gear
> and flap speeds for the T34?
>
> So it seems safe to assume that the Yakity-Yaks-provided numbers of
130kt/108kt
> bear and flap speeds are incorrect. Would someone please give me actual
numbers
> to use? Thanks.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
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