Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:56 AM - Re: Believe it or not... (Brian Lloyd)
2. 06:26 AM - Re: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A (Mike McCoy)
3. 09:20 AM - war weather (jon@zoso.email.net (Jon Boede))
4. 12:51 PM - S&F oil (cjpilot710@aol.com)
5. 03:05 PM - Formation T-37 accident report (ByronMFox@aol.com)
6. 03:32 PM - Re: S&F oil (Robert Mortara)
7. 05:52 PM - Re: S&F oil (Craig Payne)
8. 07:58 PM - S&F tentative schedule (cjpilot710@aol.com)
9. 08:32 PM - Re: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A (Walt Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Believe it or not... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Drew Blahnick wrote:
> ATC: Hey, you guys heading to the Oshkosh of the west?
>
> long pause...
>
> Barry: You wouldn't mean the Red Star event in May would you?
>
> ATC: Yea thats it...
Oshkosh of the West is the nickname for the Golden West Fly In. Still, it is
interesting that Red Star could be mistaken for it.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike McCoy" <mike@aircraftsales.com>
Brian,
Yes, I am sorry that I responded to your post, but I'll try one last time.
> Ah, but he is the designer. He is as close to an oracle as we are likely
to
> get. Now you have in the past taken people to task for "making things up"
and
> you have made a point of adhering to the chinese "standards". What is
more
> "standard" than the word of the aircraft designer?
The CJ was designed decades ago and it seems clear that the designer doesn't
remember the numbers anymore. (In fairness to the designer, I don't
remember what I was doing decades ago either.) I'm sure that there were
numbers for the airplane when it was designed, but he has obviously
forgotten them.
I would much prefer to have numbers published in an official manual.
However, since this is not the case, I use the gear speeds given to Fred by
the Chinese military for the CJ6A. These were the speeds that the military
told Fred that they were using and I find this MUCH more reasonable than to
use another airplane's speeds. Brian, you are obviously free to use any
numbers that you want. I'm quite certain that with only a sliderule and a
pocket protector, you could come up with better numbers than either the
designer or the military.
> Or are you now saying that we can evaluate things and accept or deny based
on
> our own experiences and our own evaluation of the aircraft? Seems to me
you
> took me to task for that in the past. Unfortunately we can't have it both
ways,
> i.e. adherence to the Chinese standards or figuring it out for ourselves.
C'mon Brian, you know better that this. I can see from your post that
you're seen the CJ Flight Manual and you know that much of the info is
obviously bogus. It doesn't look like a military document, much of the info
is wrong, and the translation is horrible. If there were an accurate flight
manual provided by the Chinese military, you can be 100% certain that I
would adhere to it.
Mike McCoy
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: jon@zoso.email.net (Jon Boede)
If anybody's interested, ORBS is the airport code for Baghdad. Intellicast
produces a forecast along with wind, rain, and temp grids/forecasts:
http://www.intellicast.com/Local/IntlLocalStd.asp?loc=orbs&seg=LocalWeather&prodgrp=Forecast&product=Forecast&prodnav=none&pid=none
Jon
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Those bound for Sun & Fun.
The FBO at BOW is wanting to make sure she has the right kind and amount of
oil for us.
Like to take a quick head count on what you need in oils.
Multi grades
Straight grades
or Mineral
I use 50 or 60 down here (100-120w) detergent oil.
Last year at MTW we use some 68 gals on one type of oil, so the FBO needs to
know what to stock and an idea of how much.
ASAP on answers please.
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 5
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| Subject: | Formation T-37 accident report |
--> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
Officials release T-37 accident report
03/25/03 - RANDOLPH AIR FORCE BASE, Texas (AFPN) -- Air Force officials have
determined pilot error caused the Dec. 20 mid-air collision of two T-37 Tweet
trainer aircraft out of Sheppard Air Force Base, Texas.
In its description of the incident, the accident investigation board said the
pilot of one of the T-37s did not ensure adequate separation between the two
aircraft while practicing formation maneuvers.
The collision occurred when one of the aircraft broke formation while in a
formation turn.
The student pilots involved were flying their third formation sortie,
according to the report. Italian air force Capt. Michele Minonne, instructor
pilot, and 2nd Lt. Samuele Quarina, student pilot, were in one T-37. Maj.
Robert A. Evalenko, an Air Force Reserve instructor pilot, and 1st Lt. Eric
Langmayr, a German air force student pilot, were in the aircraft that caused
the mishap.
After the mid-air collision, Evalenko and Langmayr ejected and their T-37
crashed into a wheat field near Grandview, Okla. Minonne assumed control of
the other aircraft, determined it was controllable, returned to Sheppard and
completed a gear-up crash landing back at Sheppard. All crewmembers were
uninjured.
The aviators were members of the Euro-NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training Program,
sponsored by NATO and conducted by the 80th Flying Training Wing at Sheppard.
The 55-week program produces about 250 pilots annually. Eight nations have
students and instructors in the program: Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Italy,
the Netherlands, Norway, Turkey and the United States. Five others, Canada,
Greece, Portugal, Spain and the United Kingdom, contribute instructor pilots
to the multinational staff. (Courtesy of Air Education and Training Command
News Service)
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Robert Mortara" <robmortara@robinhill.com>
I would like aero shell 100+
rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: S&F oil
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Those bound for Sun & Fun.
The FBO at BOW is wanting to make sure she has the right kind and amount of
oil for us.
Like to take a quick head count on what you need in oils.
Multi grades
Straight grades
or Mineral
I use 50 or 60 down here (100-120w) detergent oil.
Last year at MTW we use some 68 gals on one type of oil, so the FBO needs to
know what to stock and an idea of how much.
ASAP on answers please.
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Craig Payne <cpayne@mc.net>
Jim,
I'll buy mine at SNF by the case....poor boy you know.
Craig Payne
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> Those bound for Sun & Fun.
>
> The FBO at BOW is wanting to make sure she has the right kind and amount of
> oil for us.
>
> Like to take a quick head count on what you need in oils.
>
> Multi grades
> Straight grades
> or Mineral
>
> I use 50 or 60 down here (100-120w) detergent oil.
>
> Last year at MTW we use some 68 gals on one type of oil, so the FBO needs to
> know what to stock and an idea of how much.
>
> ASAP on answers please.
>
> Jim
Message 8
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| Subject: | S&F tentative schedule |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
For those who are Sun&Fun bound.
Tentative schedule.
(*) not quite sure as to the actual time we will be flying in the show.
3/31 1200 EAAWB ops opens.
4/1 0800-1800 EAAWB ops opens each day at LAL
0830 YPA recurrent formation flying starts at BOW
4/2 0745 daily safety briefing
0800 training flights
0900 -1200 FAST ground school (Mike Filucci)
0900 Mass formation Briefing for rated pilots.
1030 Mass formation to LAL
1200 Lunch at BOW or LAL
1300-1700 Training flight at BOW
1630 Mass formation LAL to BOW
1830 S,S,&S
1900 HOJO Bar
4/3 0745 daily safety briefing.
0800 - 0900 Formation flight training
0815 FAST check pilot formation to LAL
0900-1030 FAST check pilot meeting at LAL
0945 Mass formation briefing for BOW to LAL
1030 YPA formation depart for LAL
1200-1300 WB AIRSHOW BRIEFING
*1300 WB AIRSHOW
*1700 AIRSHOW over YPA recover at BOW
1830 S,S,&S
1900 HOJO Bar.
4/4 0700 Sun 60 Race day at LAL
0745 daily safety briefing
0800 -0900 training flight
0945 Mass formation briefing BOW to LAL
1030 YPA formation BOW to LAL
1200-1300 WB AIRSHOW BRIEFING
*1300 WB Airshow
*1700 AIRSHOW over YPA recover to BOW
1830 S,S,&S
1900 HOJO bar.
4/5 0745 daily safety briefing
0800 -0900 training flight
0945 Mass formation briefing BOW to LAL
1030 YPA formation BOW to LAL
1200 DEAD LINE for tickets to WB dinner at Weeks
1200-1300 WB AIRSHOW BRIEFING
*1300 WB Airshow
*1700 AIRSHOW over YPA recover to BOW
1500 EAA WB ops closed for remainder of show.
1800 S,S,&S
1830 BOW to Fantasy of Flight for WB dinner
1900 -2300 WB Awards Dinner.
4/6 0830 settle up bill with FBO.
0900 mass formation briefing for Leeward Flyout.
1030 Depart BOW for Leeward's
1200-1300 WB AIRSHOW BRIEFING
*1300 WB Airshow
*1700 AIRSHOW over YPA recover to BOW
1800 YPA activities officially over.
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A |
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Brian, Mike et al;
Last word for me on this subject.
The numbers I have arrived at ie: 90Kts flap and 110 Kts gear are, I
believe, reasonable and in accordance with similar aircraft types.
They may not be absolutely correct but we don,t know what the correct
numbers are. If these are wrong I am confident that I have erred on the safe
side.
In practice they work just fine though up here in Canada we do the break
from a low approach and reach the gear speed at the 90 deg. point in the
pitch up.
Cheers;
Walt
Original Message -----
From: "Mike McCoy" <mike@aircraftsales.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: gear and flap speeds for CJ6A
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike McCoy" <mike@aircraftsales.com>
>
> Brian,
>
> Yes, I am sorry that I responded to your post, but I'll try one last time.
>
> > Ah, but he is the designer. He is as close to an oracle as we are
likely
> to
> > get. Now you have in the past taken people to task for "making things
up"
> and
> > you have made a point of adhering to the chinese "standards". What is
> more
> > "standard" than the word of the aircraft designer?
>
> The CJ was designed decades ago and it seems clear that the designer
doesn't
> remember the numbers anymore. (In fairness to the designer, I don't
> remember what I was doing decades ago either.) I'm sure that there were
> numbers for the airplane when it was designed, but he has obviously
> forgotten them.
>
> I would much prefer to have numbers published in an official manual.
> However, since this is not the case, I use the gear speeds given to Fred
by
> the Chinese military for the CJ6A. These were the speeds that the
military
> told Fred that they were using and I find this MUCH more reasonable than
to
> use another airplane's speeds. Brian, you are obviously free to use any
> numbers that you want. I'm quite certain that with only a sliderule and a
> pocket protector, you could come up with better numbers than either the
> designer or the military.
>
> > Or are you now saying that we can evaluate things and accept or deny
based
> on
> > our own experiences and our own evaluation of the aircraft? Seems to me
> you
> > took me to task for that in the past. Unfortunately we can't have it
both
> ways,
> > i.e. adherence to the Chinese standards or figuring it out for
ourselves.
>
> C'mon Brian, you know better that this. I can see from your post that
> you're seen the CJ Flight Manual and you know that much of the info is
> obviously bogus. It doesn't look like a military document, much of the
info
> is wrong, and the translation is horrible. If there were an accurate
flight
> manual provided by the Chinese military, you can be 100% certain that I
> would adhere to it.
>
> Mike McCoy
>
>
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