Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:04 AM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Brian Lloyd)
2. 03:39 AM - Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52 (Rob)
3. 04:25 AM - Re: Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52 (Frank Haertlein)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52 (cpayne@mc.net)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Andrew Zheng \(China\))
6. 07:03 AM - primer (jay reiter)
7. 07:52 AM - Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52 (or use ALLEN SILVER belts) (Mark Schrick)
8. 08:06 AM - Red Star Formation Challenge (Barry Hancock)
9. 08:13 AM - Red Star Formation Challenge (Barry Hancock)
10. 08:17 AM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Terry)
11. 09:05 AM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (cpayne@mc.net)
12. 09:12 AM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Doug)
13. 09:38 AM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Doug)
14. 09:39 AM - Red Star Formation Challenge (Barry Hancock)
15. 10:26 AM - [Fw: CJ posting] (Brian Lloyd)
16. 02:28 PM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Brian Lloyd)
17. 03:11 PM - Safety - Mike McCoy (Brian Lloyd)
18. 06:36 PM - Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Frank Haertlein)
19. 07:04 PM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Frank Haertlein)
20. 07:07 PM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Brian Lloyd)
21. 08:21 PM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Walt Lannon)
22. 08:51 PM - Clarification (Barry Hancock)
23. 08:54 PM - Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer (Walt Lannon)
24. 08:54 PM - Clarification (Barry Hancock)
25. 10:14 PM - Re: Fw: Paniting strip (Jim Selby)
26. 10:40 PM - Re: Fw: Paniting strip (Mark Schrick)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Frank Haertlein wrote:
> Get about three gallons of Lacquer Thinner, mix it with a couple of
> gallons of gasoline. For some reason, this mixture makes short work of
> the yellow zinc chromate primer.
Now *THAT* is scary. Chemical reactions that just happen for some unknown
reason make me nervous.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 2
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| Subject: | Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Rob <Rob@metrol.com>
Is anyone at Sun N Fun in their Yak 52 fitted with a Hooker harness? I shall
be coming from the UK to Sun N Fun and am considering the purchase Hooker
straps, however I have heard that with some people (especially tall pilots)
the strap/buckle can interfere with the controls in the full aft elevator
position. I would be very grateful if there is anyone that could help me
Rob Lamb
UK
Message 3
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| Subject: | Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Rob;
I won't be going to Sun'n Fun but I can tell you that I have no problem
with the Hooker harnesses.
Frank
N911OM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Subject: Yak-List: Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: Rob <Rob@metrol.com>
Is anyone at Sun N Fun in their Yak 52 fitted with a Hooker harness? I
shall be coming from the UK to Sun N Fun and am considering the purchase
Hooker straps, however I have heard that with some people (especially
tall pilots) the strap/buckle can interfere with the controls in the
full aft elevator position. I would be very grateful if there is anyone
that could help me
Rob Lamb
UK
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
I just put a set of Hooker Harnesses in my CJ and I'll be there. I rigged my crotch
strap on the seat bucket
and as I sit at the lowest setting with a parachute, there is no interference with
the stick.
Craig Payne
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob@metrol.com
Subject: Yak-List: Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: Rob <Rob@metrol.com>
Is anyone at Sun N Fun in their Yak 52 fitted with a Hooker harness? I shall
be coming from the UK to Sun N Fun and am considering the purchase Hooker
straps, however I have heard that with some people (especially tall pilots)
the strap/buckle can interfere with the controls in the full aft elevator
position. I would be very grateful if there is anyone that could help me
Rob Lamb
UK
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Andrew Zheng \(China\)" <cjcyak@163bj.com>
Thanks, Frank I will try your method. Do you think it is necessary to strip the
yellow zinc chromate primer for change a new paint. My Chinese people told me
the yellow primer are good protect the aluminum.
Thanks again
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Yakkers;
> I've found a way to efficiently strip the yellow zinc chromate primer on
> our YAK's. I've got to say that this is one of the most tenacious paints
> I've ever tried to strip.
>
> My method works as follows.......
>
> Get about three gallons of Lacquer Thinner, mix it with a couple of
> gallons of gasoline. For some reason, this mixture makes short work of
> the yellow zinc chromate primer. Use a brass brush after the part has
> soaked for a few minutes. Funny thing about this mixture, I noticed that
> as I stripped more oily parts the mixture appeared to get stronger. It
> eats thru my rubber gloves in no time. Pure lacquer thinner doesn't do
> that so the gasoline must add something to strenghten the mix. I
> couldn't find a pair of rubber gloves that would last very long. Maybe
> the oil keeps the thinner from evaporating too fast and this helps the
> mixture work on the paint. I follow the stripping with clean lacquer
> thinner to remove any possible oily residue from the parts.
>
> Frank
> N911OM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
Good point if the primer is in good condition and can be made smooth why strip
it and prime it again. I guess the proof is in the final product.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52 (or use ALLEN SILVER belts) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Mark Schrick <schrick@pacbell.net>
Rob,
This is not true. I have installed 4 sets of Hooker Harness in Yaks and they
do not interfere. Only if you a fat can they interfere and no belts will
help you there. This has been my observation. Another good belt manufacture
is ALLEN SILVER Belts. He builds custom belts to your specification, great
quality and he is less expensive than hookers. I used them in my Yak 52W and
liked the fit much better than the Hookers. They were fitted to my aircraft
and my color scheme. Allen also supports YPA functions like ALL REDSTAR with
parachute instructions and sells parachutes. He also tests most modern
chutes for Softie and Strong parachutes. Wealth of information on his
website that can save your life............. Good luck.
Allen Silver
www.pia.com/silver
510-785-7070
P.O. Box 6092
1986 National Ave
Hayward, CA 94545
silver@pia.com
Mark (SHREK) Schrick
Western USA Dealer for AEROSTAR (Yak 52TW/W)
966 Wallace Drive
San Jose, CA 95120
(408) 323-5150 phone/fax
(408) 391-6664 cell
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rob
Subject: Yak-List: Sun N' Fun-Hooker Harness-Yak 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: Rob <Rob@metrol.com>
Is anyone at Sun N Fun in their Yak 52 fitted with a Hooker harness? I shall
be coming from the UK to Sun N Fun and am considering the purchase Hooker
straps, however I have heard that with some people (especially tall pilots)
the strap/buckle can interfere with the controls in the full aft elevator
position. I would be very grateful if there is anyone that could help me
Rob Lamb
UK
Message 8
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| Subject: | Red Star Formation Challenge |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Guys,
One of Skip Slyfield's favorite remarks about entering the overhead is
that you are being "critically observed from the ground." Well, in the
never ending pursuit of finding new ways to have fun in airplanes, we
are going to have the 1st Annual Red Star Formation Challenge. The idea
here is to put your skills to the test in a 4 ship formation contest.
The guidelines are subject to refinement, but it will go something like
this. The contest will be on Saturday afternoon, so you will have
plenty of time to form your team. Teams will be judged from the time
the briefing begins to the time you dismount your aircraft. Everything
from the professionalism of the brief, to safety considerations, to the
timed start, to taxiing, section takeoffs, join ups, formations (strong
left, right, diamond, etc.), transitions, timing of the break, landing
interval, and shut down.
We will have "celebrity" judges - no, even though they'd be right at
home in the origin countries of our mounts, Martin Sheen and Janeane
Garofelo will *not* be judging - and the winner will take home a
beautiful prop blade trophy (don't worry, we'll ship it for you), and
other prizes to be awarded at our Saturday Night Banquet.
So, make sure you put Red Star '03 on your calendar. It's May 7-11.
For more information on the event and also to register, go to
http://www.allredstar.com/Current_ops_RS_homepage.asp. As a reminder,
if you register for Red Star '03 and send in fees by March 31st, you'll
receive 10% off of your registration costs.
Hope to see you there!
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 9
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| Subject: | Red Star Formation Challenge |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Guys,
One of Skip Slyfield's favorite remarks about entering the overhead is
that you are being "critically observed from the ground." Well, in the
never ending pursuit of finding new ways to have fun in airplanes, we
are going to have the 1st Annual Red Star Formation Challenge. The idea
here is to put your skills to the test in a 4 ship formation contest.
The guidelines are subject to refinement, but it will go something like
this. The contest will be on Saturday afternoon, so you will have
plenty of time to form your team. Teams will be judged from the time
the briefing begins to the time you dismount your aircraft. Everything
from the professionalism of the brief, to safety considerations, to the
timed start, to taxiing, section takeoffs, join ups, formations (strong
left, right, diamond, etc.), transitions, timing of the break, landing
interval, and shut down.
We will have "celebrity" judges - no, even though they'd be right at
home in the origin countries of our mounts, Martin Sheen and Janeane
Garofelo will *not* be judging - and the winner will take home a
beautiful prop blade trophy (don't worry, we'll ship it for you), and
other prizes to be awarded at our Saturday Night Banquet.
So, make sure you put Red Star '03 on your calendar. It's May 7-11.
For more information on the event and also to register, go to
http://www.allredstar.com/Current_ops_RS_homepage.asp. As a reminder,
if you register for Red Star '03 and send in fees by March 31st, you'll
receive 10% off of your registration costs.
Hope to see you there!
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talewis@attbi.com>
Andrew,
The people who painted my plane wanted all of the primer removed.
They used an industrial grade of stripper after I had already stripped the
plane.
They would not guarantee the paint job unless I used the primer recommended
by the manufacturer of the paint. He also would use only pPg paint.
I am happy with this paint.
Terry Lewis
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Zheng (China) <cjcyak@163bj.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Andrew Zheng \(China\)"
<cjcyak@163bj.com>
>
> Thanks, Frank I will try your method. Do you think it is necessary to
strip the yellow zinc chromate primer for change a new paint. My Chinese
people told me the yellow primer are good protect the aluminum.
> Thanks again
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Yakkers;
> > I've found a way to efficiently strip the yellow zinc chromate primer on
> > our YAK's. I've got to say that this is one of the most tenacious paints
> > I've ever tried to strip.
> >
> > My method works as follows.......
> >
> > Get about three gallons of Lacquer Thinner, mix it with a couple of
> > gallons of gasoline. For some reason, this mixture makes short work of
> > the yellow zinc chromate primer. Use a brass brush after the part has
> > soaked for a few minutes. Funny thing about this mixture, I noticed that
> > as I stripped more oily parts the mixture appeared to get stronger. It
> > eats thru my rubber gloves in no time. Pure lacquer thinner doesn't do
> > that so the gasoline must add something to strenghten the mix. I
> > couldn't find a pair of rubber gloves that would last very long. Maybe
> > the oil keeps the thinner from evaporating too fast and this helps the
> > mixture work on the paint. I follow the stripping with clean lacquer
> > thinner to remove any possible oily residue from the parts.
> >
> > Frank
> > N911OM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@mc.net
Andrew,
It all depends upon the paint system you will be using. There are many automotive
refinishing products especially designed to cover existing primers and provide
a
base for different paint systems.
These products are designed for quick turnaround operations like body repair shops.
However, these products are not designed for aircraft paint systems. That said,
I personally
know of a mid-west paint shop that uses these products and automotive paints IF
the
FBO client wants to hold down costs. They won't do it for individuals.
Craig Payne
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Andrew Zheng \(China\)" <cjcyak@163bj.com>
Thanks, Frank I will try your method. Do you think it is necessary to strip the
yellow zinc chromate primer for change a new paint. My Chinese people told me
the yellow primer are good protect the aluminum.
Thanks again
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Yakkers;
> I've found a way to efficiently strip the yellow zinc chromate primer on
> our YAK's. I've got to say that this is one of the most tenacious paints
> I've ever tried to strip.
>
> My method works as follows.......
>
> Get about three gallons of Lacquer Thinner, mix it with a couple of
> gallons of gasoline. For some reason, this mixture makes short work of
> the yellow zinc chromate primer. Use a brass brush after the part has
> soaked for a few minutes. Funny thing about this mixture, I noticed that
> as I stripped more oily parts the mixture appeared to get stronger. It
> eats thru my rubber gloves in no time. Pure lacquer thinner doesn't do
> that so the gasoline must add something to strenghten the mix. I
> couldn't find a pair of rubber gloves that would last very long. Maybe
> the oil keeps the thinner from evaporating too fast and this helps the
> mixture work on the paint. I follow the stripping with clean lacquer
> thinner to remove any possible oily residue from the parts.
>
> Frank
> N911OM
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Just my opinion, but 2 items would concern me if this was my aircraft being
painted.
First, as you all have seen the rivet job on the CJ's is not the greatest.
Some (many) of the rivets are not "set" properly, and the heads remain just
a bit above the actual skin surface causing a roughness to the touch when
you run your hand over the heads of the countersunk rivets. The brazier
head rivets are really no better. The gap (for no better descriptive word)
between the head and the skin traps / grabs the wires of any type of brush
used to scour or clean the surface. These small bits of wires will sooner
or later cause corrosion in this area. Wire brushes will also damage the
surface protection offered by alodine and the other chemical coatings
applied by the manufacturer of the alu used to form the skins.
2. The epoxy chromate used my the Chinese is tenacious stuff, which defies
most std hardware store removers, but should be totally removed as it
chemically may not be compatible with your paints primer coating. It is
very disheartening to buy $200.00 per quart paint only to find that you have
to remove it all because it is turning to wrinkled goo right before your
eyes. The proper stripper is only half the fight, using it at the proper
temperature and in an area without a lot of moving air also helps (yes, I
know the label says to use in a well ventilated area, but I also know what
works). There are a few tricks, like applying the stripper then using Saran
wrap to cover the area, this stops evaporation, and allows you to use less
product.
Anyone out there know anything about hydrogen embitterment??
The above is just my two bits worth, and like Brian says, "your mileage may
vary".
Always yakin,
doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry" <talewis@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talewis@attbi.com>
>
> Andrew,
> The people who painted my plane wanted all of the primer removed.
> They used an industrial grade of stripper after I had already stripped the
> plane.
> They would not guarantee the paint job unless I used the primer
recommended
> by the manufacturer of the paint. He also would use only pPg paint.
> I am happy with this paint.
> Terry Lewis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Zheng (China) <cjcyak@163bj.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate
primer
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Andrew Zheng \(China\)"
> <cjcyak@163bj.com>
> >
> > Thanks, Frank I will try your method. Do you think it is necessary to
> strip the yellow zinc chromate primer for change a new paint. My Chinese
> people told me the yellow primer are good protect the aluminum.
> > Thanks again
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > > Yakkers;
> > > I've found a way to efficiently strip the yellow zinc chromate primer
on
> > > our YAK's. I've got to say that this is one of the most tenacious
paints
> > > I've ever tried to strip.
> > >
> > > My method works as follows.......
> > >
> > > Get about three gallons of Lacquer Thinner, mix it with a couple of
> > > gallons of gasoline. For some reason, this mixture makes short work of
> > > the yellow zinc chromate primer. Use a brass brush after the part has
> > > soaked for a few minutes. Funny thing about this mixture, I noticed
that
> > > as I stripped more oily parts the mixture appeared to get stronger. It
> > > eats thru my rubber gloves in no time. Pure lacquer thinner doesn't do
> > > that so the gasoline must add something to strenghten the mix. I
> > > couldn't find a pair of rubber gloves that would last very long. Maybe
> > > the oil keeps the thinner from evaporating too fast and this helps the
> > > mixture work on the paint. I follow the stripping with clean lacquer
> > > thinner to remove any possible oily residue from the parts.
> > >
> > > Frank
> > > N911OM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
One additional note, and may be the most often over looked consideration
when choosing a stripper: Some strippers are VERY corrosive. Other
strippers become "neutral" when they come in contact with water. Skin laps
and other gaps harbor stripper which if of the corrosive "non aircraft" type
will cause you grief later. The best I have found is Captain Lee's spray
strip, removed with a steam / pressure washer.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Just my opinion, but 2 items would concern me if this was my aircraft
being
> painted.
>
> First, as you all have seen the rivet job on the CJ's is not the greatest.
> Some (many) of the rivets are not "set" properly, and the heads remain
just
> a bit above the actual skin surface causing a roughness to the touch when
> you run your hand over the heads of the countersunk rivets. The brazier
> head rivets are really no better. The gap (for no better descriptive
word)
> between the head and the skin traps / grabs the wires of any type of brush
> used to scour or clean the surface. These small bits of wires will sooner
> or later cause corrosion in this area. Wire brushes will also damage the
> surface protection offered by alodine and the other chemical coatings
> applied by the manufacturer of the alu used to form the skins.
>
> 2. The epoxy chromate used my the Chinese is tenacious stuff, which defies
> most std hardware store removers, but should be totally removed as it
> chemically may not be compatible with your paints primer coating. It is
> very disheartening to buy $200.00 per quart paint only to find that you
have
> to remove it all because it is turning to wrinkled goo right before your
> eyes. The proper stripper is only half the fight, using it at the proper
> temperature and in an area without a lot of moving air also helps (yes, I
> know the label says to use in a well ventilated area, but I also know what
> works). There are a few tricks, like applying the stripper then using
Saran
> wrap to cover the area, this stops evaporation, and allows you to use less
> product.
>
> Anyone out there know anything about hydrogen embitterment??
>
> The above is just my two bits worth, and like Brian says, "your mileage
may
> vary".
>
> Always yakin,
> doug Sapp
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry" <talewis@attbi.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate
primer
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talewis@attbi.com>
> >
> > Andrew,
> > The people who painted my plane wanted all of the primer removed.
> > They used an industrial grade of stripper after I had already stripped
the
> > plane.
> > They would not guarantee the paint job unless I used the primer
> recommended
> > by the manufacturer of the paint. He also would use only pPg paint.
> > I am happy with this paint.
> > Terry Lewis
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Andrew Zheng (China) <cjcyak@163bj.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate
> primer
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Andrew Zheng \(China\)"
> > <cjcyak@163bj.com>
> > >
> > > Thanks, Frank I will try your method. Do you think it is necessary to
> > strip the yellow zinc chromate primer for change a new paint. My Chinese
> > people told me the yellow primer are good protect the aluminum.
> > > Thanks again
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate
primer
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> > <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> > > >
> > > > Yakkers;
> > > > I've found a way to efficiently strip the yellow zinc chromate
primer
> on
> > > > our YAK's. I've got to say that this is one of the most tenacious
> paints
> > > > I've ever tried to strip.
> > > >
> > > > My method works as follows.......
> > > >
> > > > Get about three gallons of Lacquer Thinner, mix it with a couple of
> > > > gallons of gasoline. For some reason, this mixture makes short work
of
> > > > the yellow zinc chromate primer. Use a brass brush after the part
has
> > > > soaked for a few minutes. Funny thing about this mixture, I noticed
> that
> > > > as I stripped more oily parts the mixture appeared to get stronger.
It
> > > > eats thru my rubber gloves in no time. Pure lacquer thinner doesn't
do
> > > > that so the gasoline must add something to strenghten the mix. I
> > > > couldn't find a pair of rubber gloves that would last very long.
Maybe
> > > > the oil keeps the thinner from evaporating too fast and this helps
the
> > > > mixture work on the paint. I follow the stripping with clean lacquer
> > > > thinner to remove any possible oily residue from the parts.
> > > >
> > > > Frank
> > > > N911OM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Red Star Formation Challenge |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Guys,
One of Skip Slyfield's favorite remarks about entering the overhead is
that you are being "critically observed from the ground." Well, in the
never ending pursuit of finding new ways to have fun in airplanes, we
are going to have the 1st Annual Red Star Formation Challenge. The idea
here is to put your skills to the test in a 4 ship formation contest.
The guidelines are subject to refinement, but it will go something like
this. The contest will be on Saturday afternoon, so you will have
plenty of time to form your team. Teams will be judged from the time
the briefing begins to the time you dismount your aircraft. Everything
from the professionalism of the brief, to safety considerations, to the
timed start, to taxiing, section takeoffs, join ups, formations (strong
left, right, diamond, etc.), transitions, timing of the break, landing
interval, and shut down.
We will have "celebrity" judges - no, even though they'd be right at
home in the origin countries of our mounts, Martin Sheen and Janeane
Garofelo will *not* be judging - and the winner will take home a
beautiful prop blade trophy (don't worry, we'll ship it for you), and
other prizes to be awarded at our Saturday Night Banquet.
So, make sure you put Red Star '03 on your calendar. It's May 7-11.
For more information on the event and also to register, go to
http://www.allredstar.com/Current_ops_RS_homepage.asp. As a reminder,
if you register for Red Star '03 and send in fees by March 31st, you'll
receive 10% off of your registration costs.
Hope to see you there!
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 15
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| Subject: | [Fwd: CJ posting] |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
I'm just the man in the middle.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: CJ posting
From: Dr. Robert Schroeder <dragonhill@mail.batelnet.bs>
Brian,
Please forward this message to the YAK-List.
I am in the Bahamas and can not send through my normal server.
Thanks, Robert Schroeder
Hi,
I want to warn you all about the "HIGH RISK" paint stripping solution
that Frank has described.
"Get about three gallons of Lacquer Thinner, mix it with a couple of
gallons of gasoline. For some reason, this mixture makes short work of
the yellow zinc chromate primer. Use a brass brush after the part has
soaked for a few minutes."
If you choose to use this mixture, be advised, your dealing with a very
explosive blend. Both fluids are flammable, vaporize at sub ambient
temperatures and are easily ignited ie: millijules of energy, a small
static discharge.
DO NOT use in a confined space. Even outdoors, you should only do it
when you've got some air change...breeze.
Be careful out there! (Sgt. Phil Esterhaus, Hill Street Blues)
Best regards,
Robert Schroeder
Dr. Robert Schroeder
Email: firedog@visi.com (please do not reply to dragonhill@batelnet.bs).
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Doug wrote:
> 2. The epoxy chromate used my the Chinese is tenacious stuff, which defies
> most std hardware store removers, but should be totally removed as it
> chemically may not be compatible with your paints primer coating. It is
> very disheartening to buy $200.00 per quart paint only to find that you have
> to remove it all because it is turning to wrinkled goo right before your
> eyes.
Test it in an unobtrusive spot.
> The proper stripper is only half the fight, using it at the proper
> temperature and in an area without a lot of moving air also helps (yes, I
> know the label says to use in a well ventilated area, but I also know what
> works). There are a few tricks, like applying the stripper then using Saran
> wrap to cover the area, this stops evaporation, and allows you to use less
> product.
Blasting with walnut shells strips old paint and if done right, leaves the
primer. It also doesn't stay around in the nooks and crannies to cause problems
down the road.
> Anyone out there know anything about hydrogen embitterment??
You mean hydrogen embrittlement? It is where hydrogen chemically gets into a
metal and makes it so hard that it becomes brittle and prone to cracking. It
most commonly happens during plating. Chrome plating is especially bad. It can
also happen from corosion and welding with some gasses.
Here is a good web site on the subject:
http://www.corrosionsource.com/handbook/testing/he.htm
> The above is just my two bits worth, and like Brian says, "your mileage may
> vary".
Yup, YMMV.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 17
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| Subject: | Safety - Mike McCoy |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Mike, I just wanted to get your attention so we can start another interesting
thread.
You have been rather vocal on the subject of this list promoting unsafe
practices. Since I don't see it I thought I would bring up the topic. Perhaps
you could enlighten me as to the unsafe practices that are proposed here? Some
of it may just be personal opinion such as our difference regarding preferred
oil and oil operating temperatures but the strength of your comments lead me to
believe that perhaps it is something else.
Like you I teach people to fly CJ as safely as possible. To me the most
important sign that they have gotten the message is consistency in procedures
and how they fly the airplane. If they have developed a smooth flow for all the
procedures and are consistent in their execution I feel that they are beginning
to commit their knowledge from the conscious to the unconscious level of
competency. Let me amplify on this just a bit.
In the model of learning I use there are four phases of knowledge/training.
They are:
1. Unconsciously incompetent - the person doesn't know and doesn't know that
they don't know. This is the person who needs training but may not be aware
they need training.
2. Consciously incompetent - the person is aware of their incompetence but for
some reason, usually not wanting to appear "stupid", doesn't seek training.
This is the most dangerous person. OTOH, this is also the point where they seek
training.
3. Consciously competent - this is the person who has received training and
executes properly when he/she is thinking about the tasks at hand. This is the
person right after receiving proper training. Think of a newly minted private
pilot here.
4. Unconsciously competent - this is the person who has practiced proper skills
for so long that they have become unconscious habits. They do the right thing
without even thinking about it because the proper behavior has become habitual.
I try to take a student somewhere beyond the third level to the point where I
see they have begun to execute the procedures unconsciously.
So, let's talk about safety and how to make it happen in a structured manner.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 18
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| Subject: | Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Andrew;
Zinc chromate protects better than most any other type of primer. On the
Yak-52, most parts are treated with "alodine". This is before the zinc
chromate is applied. With parts being "alodined" and then backed up with
zinc chromate you have aluminum protection to the ultimate degree. In my
opinion, this is one of the desirable aspects of the Yak-52. Corrosion
scares me. I've seen one too many planes with corroded parts due to
inadequate corrosion preventative measures.
I only strip the zinc chromate primer from non-structural parts. Many of
the parts that I stripped the primer from had scratched surfaces and
would looked bad when I to paint over them. That is the only reason I
removed the zinc chromate primer. The kick panels and fairings are a few
of the parts that I've stripped. Inside the airframe, where it matters
from a structural sense, I didn't touch anything so as to keep intact
what I consider an excellent level of corrosion prevention. Does the CJ6
have the same level of corrosion prevention as the YAK-52? Is it's
airframe "alodined" like the YAK-52?
Good Luck!
Frank
N911OM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Zheng
(China)
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate
primer
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Andrew Zheng \(China\)"
--> <cjcyak@163bj.com>
Thanks, Frank I will try your method. Do you think it is necessary to
strip the yellow zinc chromate primer for change a new paint. My Chinese
people told me the yellow primer are good protect the aluminum. Thanks
again
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> --> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Yakkers;
> I've found a way to efficiently strip the yellow zinc chromate primer
> on our YAK's. I've got to say that this is one of the most tenacious
> paints I've ever tried to strip.
>
> My method works as follows.......
>
> Get about three gallons of Lacquer Thinner, mix it with a couple of
> gallons of gasoline. For some reason, this mixture makes short work of
> the yellow zinc chromate primer. Use a brass brush after the part has
> soaked for a few minutes. Funny thing about this mixture, I noticed
> that as I stripped more oily parts the mixture appeared to get
> stronger. It eats thru my rubber gloves in no time. Pure lacquer
> thinner doesn't do that so the gasoline must add something to
> strenghten the mix. I couldn't find a pair of rubber gloves that would
> last very long. Maybe the oil keeps the thinner from evaporating too
> fast and this helps the mixture work on the paint. I follow the
> stripping with clean lacquer thinner to remove any possible oily
> residue from the parts.
>
> Frank
> N911OM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Brian
You forgot to mention that hydrogen embrittlement can also be caused by
using chlorinated cleaning solutions on things like high speed bearings.
Frank
N911OM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate
primer
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Doug wrote:
> 2. The epoxy chromate used my the Chinese is tenacious stuff, which
> defies most std hardware store removers, but should be totally removed
> as it chemically may not be compatible with your paints primer
> coating. It is very disheartening to buy $200.00 per quart paint only
> to find that you have to remove it all because it is turning to
> wrinkled goo right before your eyes.
Test it in an unobtrusive spot.
> The proper stripper is only half the fight, using it at the proper
> temperature and in an area without a lot of moving air also helps
> (yes, I know the label says to use in a well ventilated area, but I
> also know what works). There are a few tricks, like applying the
> stripper then using Saran wrap to cover the area, this stops
> evaporation, and allows you to use less product.
Blasting with walnut shells strips old paint and if done right, leaves
the
primer. It also doesn't stay around in the nooks and crannies to cause
problems
down the road.
> Anyone out there know anything about hydrogen embitterment??
You mean hydrogen embrittlement? It is where hydrogen chemically gets
into a
metal and makes it so hard that it becomes brittle and prone to
cracking. It
most commonly happens during plating. Chrome plating is especially bad.
It can
also happen from corosion and welding with some gasses.
Here is a good web site on the subject:
http://www.corrosionsource.com/handbook/testing/he.htm
> The above is just my two bits worth, and like Brian says, "your
> mileage may vary".
Yup, YMMV.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Frank Haertlein wrote:
> what I consider an excellent level of corrosion prevention. Does the CJ6
> have the same level of corrosion prevention as the YAK-52? Is it's
> airframe "alodined" like the YAK-52?
Yes. The aluminum is well protected but the steel parts less well so. Be sure
to look carefully at the wing attach joint to see how much corrosion (rust)
there is there.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Doug asked and Brian answered ------
> > Anyone out there know anything about hydrogen embitterment??
>
> You mean hydrogen embrittlement? It is where hydrogen chemically gets
into a
> metal and makes it so hard that it becomes brittle and prone to cracking.
It
> most commonly happens during plating. Chrome plating is especially bad.
It can
> also happen from corosion and welding with some gasses.
>
> Here is a good web site on the subject:
> http://www.corrosionsource.com/handbook/testing/he.htm
Hydrogen Embrittlement as I recall from my time in Quality Control for a
major airline is a concern in the processing of steel parts. It can be
introduced by a number of chemicals normally used in the cleaning and
plating processes, including most paint removers. In high strength steels
(above 150,000 psi approx.) it can be disastrous, leading to cracking under
service loads. I recall one case of a DC8 main landing gear pivot pin
(approx. 220,000 psi) that had incorrectly been cleaned in a hot degreaser
used for jet engine parts but not approved for high strength steels -
getting old and stupid, I can't recall the chemical name. The part went
through the full overhaul process including magnetic particle inspection and
was placed in serviceable stock. About 6 months later the part was removed
from stock for installation. A sharp eyed mechanic noted an unusual circular
mark and called it to my attention. A second MP Inspection confirmed the
crack. This part cracked while sitting on a shelf from the internal stress
produced by hydrogen embrittlement. Had this been put in service it could
have resulted in a major accident on landing.
The wing attach fittings on the CJ6 are medium to high strength (approx.
170,000 psi) steel and should not have any paint remover applied. They
should be masked off during paint stripping. They also should not be plated
unless done by a facility that has the equipment and knowledge to apply the
correct stress - relief bake at the appropriate times during the process to
preclude hydrogen embrittlement.
Other steel parts that are painted should preferably be stripped by blasting
or other methods. The mild steel parts will likely be OK with chemical
stripper but it would be prudent to avoid that since you may not know
whether they are heat treated or not.
Walt
>
>
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
It has been brought to my attention that there may be some confusion
with regards to sending in payment for Red Star West '03.
When you register at
http://www.allredstar.com/Current_ops_RS_register.asp, you will be taken
to the payment page which explains where to send the check and who to
make it out to. Again, all registrations received by March 31st and all
checks postmarked by same are entitled to a 10% discount.
If you have already registered and are just looking for where to send
the check go to:
http://www.allredstar.com/Current_ops_RS_pay.asp
The most simple approach is to walk through the registration process
online starting at http://www.allredstar.com/Current_ops_RS_Fees.asp
Don't worry if you have already registered, I'll recognize the double
registration. Also, you can also calculate your fees at this page.
Drew is again serving our country and will be gone for the next month.
So if anyone has any questions, please contact me directly.
God bless our troops!
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer |
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Stripping that stubborn, yellow zinc chromate primer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Frank Haertlein wrote:
> > what I consider an excellent level of corrosion prevention. Does the CJ6
> > have the same level of corrosion prevention as the YAK-52? Is it's
> > airframe "alodined" like the YAK-52?
>
> Yes. The aluminum is well protected but the steel parts less well so. Be
sure
> to look carefully at the wing attach joint to see how much corrosion
(rust)
> there is there.
The CJ6 alum. alloy is actually anodized. I suspect the Yak52 is the same.
It is an electro-chemical etching process that leaves a very durable coating
on the surface. Alodine is a chemical (chromic acid) process that also
leaves a protective coat but is far less durable than anodize. It's main
advantage is to prevent the formation of aluminum oxide before priming and
therefore improve primer adhesion. Etching with phosphoric acid prior to
painting removes the al. oxide coat. Oxidation will begin again almost
immediately afterward. Alodine delays that process.
Anodizing is rarely seen on Western aircraft any more except for the very
expensive varieties. It is probably still a requirement for US Navy
aircraft.
Cheers;
Walt
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>
>
Message 24
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
It has been brought to my attention that there may be some confusion
with regards to sending in payment for Red Star West '03.
When you register at
http://www.allredstar.com/Current_ops_RS_register.asp, you will be taken
to the payment page which explains where to send the check and who to
make it out to. Again, all registrations received by March 31st and all
checks postmarked by same are entitled to a 10% discount.
If you have already registered and are just looking for where to send
the check go to:
http://www.allredstar.com/Current_ops_RS_pay.asp
The most simple approach is to walk through the registration process
online starting at http://www.allredstar.com/Current_ops_RS_Fees.asp
Don't worry if you have already registered, I'll recognize the double
registration. Also, you can also calculate your fees at this page.
Drew is again serving our country and will be gone for the next month.
So if anyone has any questions, please contact me directly.
God bless our troops!
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 25
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| Subject: | Fw: Paniting strip |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Selby" <jimscjs@mbay.net>
Andrew
Try, gasoline and a match.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Zheng
(China)
Subject: Yak-List: Fw: Paniting strip
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Andrew Zheng \(China\)" <cjcyak@163bj.com>
Does any one knows what kind strip are good for CJ. I tried two of the
strips which from Canada. But it is still hard to strip the Chinese yellow
color primer
Andrew Zheng
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 26
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| Subject: | Fw: Paniting strip |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Schrick" <schrick@pacbell.net>
Well......That would get all the paint off for sure.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Selby
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Fw: Paniting strip
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Selby" <jimscjs@mbay.net>
Andrew
Try, gasoline and a match.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Zheng
(China)
Subject: Yak-List: Fw: Paniting strip
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Andrew Zheng \(China\)" <cjcyak@163bj.com>
Does any one knows what kind strip are good for CJ. I tried two of the
strips which from Canada. But it is still hard to strip the Chinese yellow
color primer
Andrew Zheng
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
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