Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:34 AM - Yak 52 service ceiling (Steven Johnson)
2. 05:11 AM - Re: Yak 52 service ceiling (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 06:35 AM - Tinted canopies and fire extinguishers (Barry Hancock)
4. 07:05 AM - Gus Fraser (MFilucci@aol.com)
5. 08:17 AM - Re: fire extinguisher (Jim Ivey)
6. 08:22 AM - Re: Yak 52 service ceiling (Brian Lloyd)
7. 08:35 AM - Re: Yak 52 service ceiling (A. Dennis Savarese)
8. 08:39 AM - fire extinguishers (Brian Lloyd)
9. 09:01 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (Jones, Bryan D.)
10. 09:06 AM - Parachute for sale (Jones, Bryan D.)
11. 09:41 AM - Re: fire extinguisher (Yakjock)
12. 09:43 AM - Re: Tinted glass (Yakjock)
13. 10:39 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (Lee Taylor)
14. 03:40 PM - Re: fire extinguishers (Brian Lloyd)
15. 07:45 PM - Re: fire extinguishers (Walt Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Yak 52 service ceiling |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steven Johnson" <sajdds@attbi.com>
Why is the Yak 52 service ceiling only 13,000 ft? I would think with a
supercharger it should go 10,000 feet higher.
Steve
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 service ceiling |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
It will easily go higher and was so tested by Scott Patterson from Selma, AL
several years ago. Scott took his YAK 52 to 18,000 or 19,000 feet, if I
recall correctly. As to why the limitation? That I do not know the answer
to, other than the obvious, oxygen.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Johnson" <sajdds@attbi.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 service ceiling
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Steven Johnson" <sajdds@attbi.com>
>
> Why is the Yak 52 service ceiling only 13,000 ft? I would think with a
> supercharger it should go 10,000 feet higher.
> Steve
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Tinted canopies and fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
I have tinted canopies and love them. They are medium tint from
Aircraft Plastics. The light tint is almost no tint and does very
little to help with heat. I have several hours of night flying with
them and have never even noticed the medium tinted canopies. Dark is a
different story...I don't think I would want to be in a low light
situation with dark tinting.
As for fire extinguishers, Jeff Linebaugh sent me an article awhile back
that I put in the Warbird Flyer (back in my newsletter editing days)
which pointed out you need to be very careful in making sure to select a
"B,C" extinguisher as the "A,B,C" compound is very corrosive to
aluminium. As for placement, I have seen several on the floor between
the rudder cables. This has always struck me as people wanting to make
themselves into a fire poke. If there is a fire in the cockpit, there
most likely will be flames close to that area. Remember you have the
fuel pressure senders just on the other side of that secondary fire
wall, etc. Anyway, I'm mounting my extinguisher just behind my shoulder
(still haven't decided on right or left) on the side of the cockpit so
that I can easily/quickly get to it with one hand an it will be as far
away from the heat source as practical (hopefully!).
Hope this helps....
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Director of Operations
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
Gus Fraser,
Please contact me off list at mfilucci@aol.com or 703-867-8401.
Mike
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguisher |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jim Ivey <jim@jimivey.com>
Dave:
I generally gravitate toward "Halon" fire extinguishers for aircraft.
While the Halon variety are getting harder to find (EPA thing), they
are readily available from folks like Aircraft Spruce, etc. In fact
aviation is the only place Halon extinguishers are allowed to be used
any more, by law. Halon is a gas that seeks heat and does not leave a
mess like dry chemical varieties. No muss or fuss. If you do ever use
a dry chemical variety it can be a real mess trying to clean up the
residue plus the white powder flying everywhere within a cockpit could
very well cause it's own problems with visibility, eye burning not to
mention inhalation. During a cockpit fire those may be the last things
you need. If dry chemical is used on the ground for a engine fire there
is a good chance the engine would have to be torn down to rid the
corrosive and abrasive residue from the works. Not so for Halon.
If you do go for Halon you may be interested in the variety that does
not use Nitrogen as a propellant. This type does not leak down over
time like those with Nitrogen, so these have a 20-year shelf life.
Jim Ivey
Dave Laird wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
>
>hey listers...
>I'm going to mount at least one fire extinguisher in my CJ.
>
>What type of fire extinguishers are you guys/girls carrying in your
>birds?
>And how/where do you mount them?
>And where did you buy them?
>Any pics would be helpful..
>
>Dave Laird
>N63536 "Betty" CJ6A
>Dallas
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 service ceiling |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Steven Johnson wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Steven Johnson" <sajdds@attbi.com>
>
> Why is the Yak 52 service ceiling only 13,000 ft? I would think with a
> supercharger it should go 10,000 feet higher.
Service ceiling is defined as the altitude at which rate-of-climb decreases
to 200 fpm at max gross weight. If the airplane is not at max gross it
will climb significantly higher than its published service ceiling.
Of course, who knows what the Russians or Romanians use as a definition for
service ceiling.
As for the supercharger, it is there primarily to improve the volumetric
efficiency of the engine, not to provide a significant boost to power. A
low compression cylinder doesn't "suck" very well so the supercharger
provides a positive pressure to help "blow" the fuel/air charge into the
cylinder during the intake stroke thus ensuring that the cylinder receives
a full fuel/air charge.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 service ceiling |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
They define it as "the most likely altitude at which the person controlling
the assent of the airplane ceases to be cognizant of those little round
gauges directly in front of him". :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 52 service ceiling
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Steven Johnson wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Steven Johnson" <sajdds@attbi.com>
> >
> > Why is the Yak 52 service ceiling only 13,000 ft? I would think with a
> > supercharger it should go 10,000 feet higher.
>
> Service ceiling is defined as the altitude at which rate-of-climb
decreases
> to 200 fpm at max gross weight. If the airplane is not at max gross it
> will climb significantly higher than its published service ceiling.
>
> Of course, who knows what the Russians or Romanians use as a definition
for
> service ceiling.
>
> As for the supercharger, it is there primarily to improve the volumetric
> efficiency of the engine, not to provide a significant boost to power. A
> low compression cylinder doesn't "suck" very well so the supercharger
> provides a positive pressure to help "blow" the fuel/air charge into the
> cylinder during the intake stroke thus ensuring that the cylinder receives
> a full fuel/air charge.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
You might want to look at some of the self-contained automatic B/C
extinguishers designed for marine use. I have some relatively small ones
for the engine compartments of my boat that would fit nicely up in the area
between the firwall and the forward bulkhead of the cockpit. They include
a switch that closes to let you know that the extinguisher has discharged
so you can trigger a "fire" lamp on the panel if you like,
Remember: fly the airplane. If you can't fly the airplane, use your 'chute
to get out. Fighting a fire in the cockpit of an airplane using a hand
extinguisher is not usually very productive because you usually can't get
the extinguisher pointed at the source of the fire. You really need
something big enough to completely flood the entire area with extinguisher
to snuff out the fire. You want something like Halon(tm) or its
replacement as it can interrupt the fire without interrupting your
breathing. Still, once you flood with one of these extinquishers the
potential exists for you to pass out should you not get an exchange of air
and that could cause the fire to rekindle since it probably hasn't had time
to cool.
Bottom line: there really is no good solution. I view the fixed
extinquisher as a means to stretch the time I have to get out of the
airplane without becoming burned.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 9
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| Subject: | fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
There was some discussion in the RV world about putting passages (tubing)
from the cockpit to some strategic area of the engine compartment. This
would allow one to fire their (Halon?) extinguisher from the cockpit to the
engine area. Would also allow you to use the same extinguisher in the
cockpit. Might be something to consider.
As for fire detection, I made a little home brew dual element fire detection
device for my RV-8. It uses two fusible links (attached to the engine
mount, near the air outlet at the bottom) wired such that when they both go,
they light a red LED in the cockpit. Has held up for 3 years and 520 hrs
with no false alarms. Might give a little quicker warning of fire than
having flames come through the firewall.
Bryan Jones
Pearland, Texas
Message 10
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| Subject: | Parachute for sale |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jones, Bryan D." <bryan.jones@lyondell-citgo.com>
I have a mil surplus (USAF) backpack chute for sale. It's been packed
successfully in the last 12 mos, but is currently out of date. Too thick
for RV's, unless you're 5'-5" and 110-lbs - and I don't get many riders that
fit that profile! Thought it might fit with a Yak or CJ. Would be a good
2nd chute for giving rides upside down.
Write me with an offer if interested.
Bryan Jones
Pearland, Texas
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguisher |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
Dave,
I have a small Halon extinguisher that is mounted to the left and slightly behind
me. In this position it is handy to get out and easy to see the gauge. Most
fire extinguisher stores would carry one like it. I had to use it once for
a self-induced carb fire and it worked great - no damage to anything but my ego.
It also serves as a handy place to store a water bottle between the extinguisher
and the bulkhead.
Hal
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tinted glass |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
Go with US light tinted glass. Makes a big difference.
Hal
Message 13
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| Subject: | fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@idcomm.com>
MAJOR CHANGE TO AIRBORNE FIRE FIGHTING!
Remember:
SHUT THE FUEL OFF!!!!! Fuel is virtually the only thing that
can cause a fire in our planes. --And you are not likely to put out a
fuel-fed airborne fire any way except by eliminating the fuel flow.--
Electrical can, but circuit breakers will usually take care of an
electrical problem.
Many years ago, we lost one of our pilots at Reno in a Bearcat.
He had an airborne fire, and tried to get back to the field. Didn't
make it. Analyzation was that he never shut the fuel off, died while
still airborne, because he was scared of a dead-stick landing in the
plane.
THEN!
fly the airplane. If you can't fly the airplane, use your 'chute
to get out. Fighting a fire in the cockpit of an airplane using a hand
extinguisher is not usually very productive because you usually can't
get
the extinguisher pointed at the source of the fire -----
Personally, realistically analyzing the situation, I don't see
an airborne extinguisher being of much practical use. SHUT THE FUEL
OFF!! If that doesn't work, an extinguisher probably won't either.
Get-Out time. My opinion is that an airborne extinguisher is more of a
psychological crutch, than something that would actually be useful. And
taking the time trying to use it may distract your attention from
actually surviving. More than useless Dead weight, in my opinion.
Lee Taylor
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Lee Taylor wrote:
> THEN!
> fly the airplane. If you can't fly the airplane, use your 'chute
> to get out. Fighting a fire in the cockpit of an airplane using a hand
> extinguisher is not usually very productive because you usually can't
> get
> the extinguisher pointed at the source of the fire -----
Gee, sounds an awful lot like what I said. :
)
> Personally, realistically analyzing the situation, I don't see
> an airborne extinguisher being of much practical use. SHUT THE FUEL
> OFF!! If that doesn't work, an extinguisher probably won't either.
> Get-Out time. My opinion is that an airborne extinguisher is more of a
> psychological crutch, than something that would actually be useful. And
> taking the time trying to use it may distract your attention from
> actually surviving. More than useless Dead weight, in my opinion.
Right on! I forgot to add that very important piece of information. Shut
off the fuel to the fire.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
tests=ORIGINAL_MESSAGE,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
USER_IN_WHITELIST
version=2.55
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Some reflections on cockpit fire extinguishers-----
Canadian regs. require a hand fire extinguisher. Many of us think the
primary reason for them is if you have no parachute the fumes will probably
render you unconcious and if that fails you can knock yourself out with the
empty container.
However, many years ago I managed to save a Cessna 195 from destruction with
my cockpit extinguisher. Taxiing by the 195 I noted a stream of fuel flowing
from the belly as the engine was turning to start. In the same instant the
engine fired up and the exhaust lit the fuel. Shut down, jumped out with the
ext., gave a cut sign to the pilot and put out the fire with the last spurt
out of the ext.
Problem was a cockpit controlled fuel drain that stuck open. The 195 pilot
recharged my extinguisher for me.
So, may be they are not a total waste of time.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: fire extinguishers
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Lee Taylor wrote:
> > THEN!
> > fly the airplane. If you can't fly the airplane, use your 'chute
> > to get out. Fighting a fire in the cockpit of an airplane using a hand
> > extinguisher is not usually very productive because you usually can't
> > get
> > the extinguisher pointed at the source of the fire -----
>
> Gee, sounds an awful lot like what I said. :
> )
>
> > Personally, realistically analyzing the situation, I don't see
> > an airborne extinguisher being of much practical use. SHUT THE FUEL
> > OFF!! If that doesn't work, an extinguisher probably won't either.
> > Get-Out time. My opinion is that an airborne extinguisher is more of a
> > psychological crutch, than something that would actually be useful. And
> > taking the time trying to use it may distract your attention from
> > actually surviving. More than useless Dead weight, in my opinion.
>
> Right on! I forgot to add that very important piece of information. Shut
> off the fuel to the fire.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
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