Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:08 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (Brian Lloyd)
2. 06:33 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (KingCJ6@aol.com)
3. 06:55 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (Brian Lloyd)
4. 07:02 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (Walt Fricke)
5. 08:19 AM - Yak 55 (Jim Ivey)
6. 08:45 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (Brian Lloyd)
7. 09:07 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (Lee Taylor)
8. 12:35 PM - Re: Yak 55 (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 09:07 PM - Ignition gremlin (Yakjock)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Walt Lannon wrote:
> ext., gave a cut sign to the pilot and put out the fire with the last spurt
> out of the ext.
> Problem was a cockpit controlled fuel drain that stuck open. The 195 pilot
> recharged my extinguisher for me.
> So, may be they are not a total waste of time.
I think that an extinguisher is great to have on the ground for fires
during start-up. The military has recognized this for a long time and it
has been their policy to have someone standing by with an extinguisher
during start. But the extinguisher stays on the ground to be used with the
next airplane starting up.
But in-flight a hand-held extinguisher is, IMHO, pretty useless. The
hand-held extinguisher is too small to do much and while you are strapped
into the seat you can't maneuver to direct the extinguisher where there is
likely to be needed and if you unstrap and maneuver to direct the
extinguisher, you can't fly the airplane.
Some of you know my somewhat unortodox belief that circuit breakers and
fuses should not be accessible in flight. If you can't get at them you
will not be motivated to try to fix a problem in flight and you won't be
excessively distracted from flying the airplane. Save the troubleshooting
for the ground. If you are dependent on a particular circuit working in
order to safely complete a flight, you had better come up with a backup for
that circuit.
Fire extinguishers are in the same category. If stopping or slowing a fire
is critical, put a permanent solution in place where you can trigger it and
let it do its job while you fly the airplane. A hand-held extinquisher is
just likely to distract you from the task of flying the airplane or from
getting your precious butt out while you still can.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: KingCJ6@aol.com
This assumes all fires are in one's own a/c while flying; many fires occur
during start up or while taxiing, and often while away from your crewman who is
always standing by with a with an appropriate extinguisher.
Remember the wise Confucius saying, "A fire extinguisher in cockpit beats two
in hanger".
Dave
In a message dated 6/19/2003 6:09:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
brian@lloyd.com writes:
> But in-flight a hand-held extinguisher is, IMHO, pretty useless. The
> hand-held extinguisher is too small to do much and while you are strapped
> into the seat you can't maneuver to direct the extinguisher where there is
> likely to be needed and if you unstrap and maneuver to direct the
> extinguisher, you can't fly the airplane.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
KingCJ6@aol.com wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: KingCJ6@aol.com
>
> This assumes all fires are in one's own a/c while flying; many fires occur
> during start up or while taxiing, and often while away from your crewman who
is
> always standing by with a with an appropriate extinguisher.
Read the first part of my previous post where I say that an extinguisher is
useful on the ground.
And on the ground, a hand-held extinguisher is likely to prove too small to
put out even a small fuel fire. Even Walt said, "...and put out the fire
with the last spurt out of the ext." Again, he said, "...with the last
spurt out of the extinguisher." Sounds like he was right at the limit of
what the extinguisher could do in a very simple situation. What if he had
needed just one more spurt?
If a small, probably-inadequate palm-sized extinguisher makes you feel warm
and fuzzy, by all means carry one. Piece of mind helps you think and act
more clearly in an emergency. But if you plan to put out a fuel fire on
the ground, perhaps you should find out what the pros recommend for a
properly-sized extinguisher. I bet it isn't a 1/2 ABC extinguisher that
you are going to strap next to you in the cockpit.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Fricke <walterfricke@yahoo.com>
Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com> wrote:
"Some of you know my somewhat unorthodox belief that circuit breakers and
fuses should not be accessible in flight."
Brian,
As to hiding the circuit breakers.....on my Staggerwing, the emergency gear extension
is electric with a hand crank (on the same bicycle chain) backup. A crank
on the left side of the cabin which will BREAK YOUR ARM if you are working
it when the motor re-engages. Thus, I believe, the admonition to pull the circuit
breaker prior to engaging the manual system with the gear selector in the
down position. I would prefer not to have to crawl outside the aircraft to
find the breaker prior to grabbing hold of the crank. Other than that you are
welcome to hide the rest of my circuit breakers.
"Life's a Beech!"
Smokey
---------------------------------
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Jim Ivey <jim@jimivey.com>
Anybody know where one may purchase a Yak 55?
Jim Ivey
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Walt Fricke wrote:
> As to hiding the circuit breakers.....on my Staggerwing, the emergency
> gear extension is electric with a hand crank (on the same bicycle chain)
> backup. A crank on the left side of the cabin which will BREAK YOUR ARM
> if you are working it when the motor re-engages. Thus, I believe, the
> admonition to pull the circuit breaker prior to engaging the manual
> system with the gear selector in the down position. I would prefer not
> to have to crawl outside the aircraft to find the breaker prior to
> grabbing hold of the crank. Other than that you are welcome to hide the
> rest of my circuit breakers.
There is always an exception to any rule. In your special case you are
using it as a switch to disable part of the system. You can think of that
as a "normal" function. No, I was talking about the run-of-the-mill
circuit interrupter that protects the wiring from catching fire in an
overload. If the breaker pops or the fuse blows, you have a problem you
need to troubleshoot on the ground, not in the air. OK, maybe you can push
in the breaker and have it work again ... for awhile. But you could weld
the contacts closed and now you have no circuit protection. Now you really
are flirting with an in-flight fire. And even if that doesn't happen, now
you can't trust that circuit to work for the duration of the flight. If
you absolutely, positively need that circuit, you need a backup or you need
to get on the ground.
> "Life's a Beech!"
And here I thought that life was just one yak after another.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 7
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| Subject: | fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@idcomm.com>
Hey Walt, Brian, et al:
Re our discussions on fire extinguishers, hidden circuit breakers, et
al---what is important is to read and understand all the different
considerations on the various topics, give some thought to each view,
and choose the one that works best for us personally.
These boards serve an extremely valuable purpose in that respect, in my
opinion. And personally, my opinions are just exactly that! Only my
opinions.
Lee Taylor
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Contact me off list Jim. I may be able to help you.
Dennis Savarese
adsavar@gte.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Ivey" <jim@jimivey.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 55
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jim Ivey <jim@jimivey.com>
>
> Anybody know where one may purchase a Yak 55?
>
> Jim Ivey
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Ignition gremlin |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
Hi all,
I could use some advice about now.
For the last several weeks my mechanic and I have been trying to track down and
cure a persistent ignition problem. In flight my CJ with an M14P runs great
on the left mag, but missies when I run on the right mag. I have an electronic
tach, and this show a recurrent fluctuation in percent power with the yellow
warning light flashing to indicate more than a 40 rpm differential between the
right and left mags. On the ground during runnup the engine does not miss.
To ferret out the problem we have:
- cleaned the mags out until the sparkle
- checked the mag timing (there is a small differential between the two, but within
specs).
- cleaned and regapped all spark plugs (Champions)
-Installed a new coil in the right mag
- cleaned the high tension spark plug leads
- put in new spark plugs in the rear positions (for the right mag).
- used a high tension leade tester to check out all the leads.
- replaced the entire high tension wiring harness with a new one
- Installed a new high tension post in the right mag
- Rechecked to make sure the mag switch was talking to the right mags.
The engine still misses and sends out puffs of black smoke on the right mag, and
runs perfectly on the left.
We attempted to take the right mag off the M14P in my new plane to put on this
plane - my mechanic told me it wouldn't work as they were 90 degrees out of faze
with each other (both coming out when the engines were at top dead center on
the compression stroke at #4). So we can't use one as a backup to the other.
I asked about swapping the right and left mags in the current plane and was told
that that wouldn't work as the left mag is also set up to handle the shower
of sparks.
All suggestions are welcome!
Thanks,
Hal
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