Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:03 AM - Re: Yak 52 service ceiling (Ron Davis)
2. 06:12 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (Brian Lloyd)
3. 06:19 AM - Re: Yak 52 service ceiling (Brian Lloyd)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (cjpilot710@aol.com)
5. 07:06 AM - Re: Yak 52 service ceiling (cjpilot710@aol.com)
6. 07:46 AM - Re: fire extinguishers (Cy Galley)
7. 08:24 AM - Re: Yak 52 service ceiling (Brian Lloyd)
8. 09:35 AM - Re: fire extinguishers and hoses (Doug)
9. 11:22 AM - Re: PIREPS article (Richard Basiliere)
10. 09:12 PM - test (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 service ceiling |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
I remember 100 fpm from way back in my 28 years of flying. I can't remember
where I left my car keys, probably because things like this are taking up
too much of the available memory.
>From: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 52 service ceiling
>Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 08:53:02 -0400
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
>Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>Never mind. I was wrong. Service ceiling is defined as the density
>altitude at which the aircraft RoC decreses to 100 fpm, 50fpm for engine
>out on a multi-engine aircraft.
>
>I have been using 200 fpm for at least the last 31 years. Did the FAA
>change the definition at some point within that time?
>
>--
>
>Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
>brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
>+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
>GMT-4
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Roy O. Wright wrote:
> Back to yak'ing. Brian, I understand your extinguishers are mounted
> in the engine compartment with both a temperature trigger and a remote
> trigger? Seems much better than one in the cockpit. Any sources?
Actually, they are mounted in the engine compartments of my boat. You see,
sometimes I get confused. Regardless, there is no reason you couldn't do
the same thing in the plane. My concern would be that the airflow through
the engine would remove the extinguisher compound before it could do its job.
The bottles used for boats use a sprinkler attachment much like the ones
you see in buildings. When the temperature rises high enough the little
glass ampule breaks or metal strips melt releasing the extinguisher
chemical. It also has a standard pull-cable that fires the bottle. The
bottle has a pressure switch that indicates if the bottle has been fired.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 service ceiling |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Ron Davis wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
>
> I remember 100 fpm from way back in my 28 years of flying. I can't remember
> where I left my car keys, probably because things like this are taking up
> too much of the available memory.'
That's it. My brain doesn't work anymore. Goodbye. :-)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Most engine fire extinguishers system on the old piston bombers and such,
have their discharge ports in the accessories section of the engine compartment
since this is where most fires happen. This is behind the baffles. It is a
simple aliumum pipe with 1/8" holes drilled in it every 6" or so. Now there is
airflow from the baffle though the accessory section and out the cowl cheeks or
cowl flaps, but if you ever noticed during engine runs on the ground, that
flow is very turbulent and chaotic. On the B-24 the fire extinguisher out let
pipe runs around the side of the cowling just behind the baffle. With
exception of the magnesium oil sump on the M-14 and HS6, metal don't burn. Where
your
fires are going to happen (in the engine section) is in any area that deals
with fuel and oil (We don't have hydraulics). Covering fuel lines with fire
proof covering is cheaper than a fire bottle but will not stop a fire.
I think if I were putting a fire suppression system on these engines, I'd put
the discharge pipe around the same area as the ignition harness. Good and
fresh (less tha 5 years) oil and fuel lines, and good inspections are your best
protection.
In the cabin area, we have fuel lines that run within 6" on either side of
us. A leak in any one of these fittings is a possible fire source. A handy
Halon extinguisher is good insurance.
I know of a Connecticut T-34 driver who had a cockpit fire from an old fuel
hose the under the front cockpit floor. (a/c just out of a fresh annual). He
landed the airplane STANDING in his seat. He jumped from the plane after
touch down. He than chased the airplane until it stopped off the runway and
removed the fire extinguisher from the BAGGAGE compartment. He was unable to put
the fire out but his final approach was over a fire house and the guys on duty
saw what was happening. They only had to go one block to get him. The
airplane was still a total loss and the IA lost his license.
Want to hear some more stories?
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 service ceiling |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 6/21/2003 9:20:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
brian@lloyd.com writes:
> >
> >I remember 100 fpm from way back in my 28 years of flying. I can't
> remember
> >where I left my car keys, probably because things like this are taking up
> >too much of the available memory.'
>
> That's it. My brain doesn't work anymore. Goodbye. :-)
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
>
That's what happens when you breath the salt air around boats. You need to
get your sun tanned ass up high where the air clean and clear. :)
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
YES! More stories.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: fire extinguishers
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> Most engine fire extinguishers system on the old piston bombers and such,
> have their discharge ports in the accessories section of the engine
compartment
> since this is where most fires happen. This is behind the baffles. It is
a
> simple aliumum pipe with 1/8" holes drilled in it every 6" or so. Now
there is
> airflow from the baffle though the accessory section and out the cowl
cheeks or
> cowl flaps, but if you ever noticed during engine runs on the ground, that
> flow is very turbulent and chaotic. On the B-24 the fire extinguisher out
let
> pipe runs around the side of the cowling just behind the baffle. With
> exception of the magnesium oil sump on the M-14 and HS6, metal don't burn.
Where your
> fires are going to happen (in the engine section) is in any area that
deals
> with fuel and oil (We don't have hydraulics). Covering fuel lines with
fire
> proof covering is cheaper than a fire bottle but will not stop a fire.
>
> I think if I were putting a fire suppression system on these engines, I'd
put
> the discharge pipe around the same area as the ignition harness. Good and
> fresh (less tha 5 years) oil and fuel lines, and good inspections are your
best
> protection.
>
> In the cabin area, we have fuel lines that run within 6" on either side of
> us. A leak in any one of these fittings is a possible fire source. A
handy
> Halon extinguisher is good insurance.
>
> I know of a Connecticut T-34 driver who had a cockpit fire from an old
fuel
> hose the under the front cockpit floor. (a/c just out of a fresh annual).
He
> landed the airplane STANDING in his seat. He jumped from the plane after
> touch down. He than chased the airplane until it stopped off the runway
and
> removed the fire extinguisher from the BAGGAGE compartment. He was unable
to put
> the fire out but his final approach was over a fire house and the guys on
duty
> saw what was happening. They only had to go one block to get him. The
> airplane was still a total loss and the IA lost his license.
>
> Want to hear some more stories?
>
> Jim
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
> deserve neither liberty nor safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
> "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like
grapes
> until some woman stomps all over them."
> Unknown older man.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 52 service ceiling |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> That's what happens when you breath the salt air around boats. You need to
> get your sun tanned ass up high where the air clean and clear. :)
I have this penchant for shorts and tee-shirts. For that reason they still
call me "white boy."
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers and hoses |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Fuel and line stories:
When my 1956 miniyak (CJ5 / Yak 18) came from China 5 years ago, we all
remarked how good the fuel and air lines "looked". None were changed. I
flew that aircraft about 2 hours then decided to add a oil filter, this
required the slight repositioning of the fuel line to the carb. When the
hose was re-configured we heard a slight snapping noise, so we removed the
hose only to have it literally fall apart in our hands when we flexed it!
So much for Chinese overhauls! I recommend that if you do not know the age
of your hoses (air or fuel) your should remove them at annual and check them
all for flexibility. Old hoses, while they can "look" good will be stiff
and will actually make a snap and crackle sound when you flex them (cords
and rubber breaking). If your hoses (air or fuel) are more than 5 years old
you should replace them. Note the part number and the date of change in
your log book. This will save some time and questions at the next annual.
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: fire extinguishers
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> Most engine fire extinguishers system on the old piston bombers and such,
> have their discharge ports in the accessories section of the engine
compartment
> since this is where most fires happen. This is behind the baffles. It is
a
> simple aliumum pipe with 1/8" holes drilled in it every 6" or so. Now
there is
> airflow from the baffle though the accessory section and out the cowl
cheeks or
> cowl flaps, but if you ever noticed during engine runs on the ground, that
> flow is very turbulent and chaotic. On the B-24 the fire extinguisher out
let
> pipe runs around the side of the cowling just behind the baffle. With
> exception of the magnesium oil sump on the M-14 and HS6, metal don't burn.
Where your
> fires are going to happen (in the engine section) is in any area that
deals
> with fuel and oil (We don't have hydraulics). Covering fuel lines with
fire
> proof covering is cheaper than a fire bottle but will not stop a fire.
>
> I think if I were putting a fire suppression system on these engines, I'd
put
> the discharge pipe around the same area as the ignition harness. Good and
> fresh (less tha 5 years) oil and fuel lines, and good inspections are your
best
> protection.
>
> In the cabin area, we have fuel lines that run within 6" on either side of
> us. A leak in any one of these fittings is a possible fire source. A
handy
> Halon extinguisher is good insurance.
>
> I know of a Connecticut T-34 driver who had a cockpit fire from an old
fuel
> hose the under the front cockpit floor. (a/c just out of a fresh annual).
He
> landed the airplane STANDING in his seat. He jumped from the plane after
> touch down. He than chased the airplane until it stopped off the runway
and
> removed the fire extinguisher from the BAGGAGE compartment. He was unable
to put
> the fire out but his final approach was over a fire house and the guys on
duty
> saw what was happening. They only had to go one block to get him. The
> airplane was still a total loss and the IA lost his license.
>
> Want to hear some more stories?
>
> Jim
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
> deserve neither liberty nor safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
> "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like
grapes
> until some woman stomps all over them."
> Unknown older man.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: PIREPS article |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
unreadable
>>> rvfltd@televar.com 06/20/03 05:39PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
All I got was alphabet soup!! anybody else get any readable test? Or is it just
me and my funky computer?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Avcraft" <avcraft@citlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: PIREPS article
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Avcraft" <avcraft@citlink.net>
>
> This article will appear in July PIREPS; thought everyone would enjoy
> reading it.0D
> 0D
> Keith,0D
> 0D
> I've just finished page 5 of PIREPS for July and this will be the write0D
> up concerning your Fly-in. Even though it was a rainy day, I thoroughly0D
> enjoyed myself, seeing the airplanes and visiting with everyone.0D
> 0D
> If you see some things in the article which need to be changed or added0D
> to please let me know.0D
> 0D
> Thanks,0D
> 0D
> Ronnie Mitchell
> R0lGODlhFAAPALMIAP9gAM9gAM8vAM9gL/+QL5AvAGAvAP9gL////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
> AAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh+QQJFAAIACwAAAAAFAAPAAAEVRDJSaudJuudrxlEKI6B
> URlCUYyjKpgYAKSgOBSCDEuGDKgrAtC3Q/R+hkPJEDgYCjpKr5A8WK9OaPFZwHoPqm3366VKyeRt
> E30tVVRscMHDqV/u+AgAIfkEBWQACAAsAAAAABQADwAABBIQyUmrvTjrzbv/YCiOZGmeaAQAIfkE
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> BAVkAAgALAAAAAAUAA8AAAQSEMlJq7046827/2AojmRpnmgEADs
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
test
Jim
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
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