Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:01 AM - VGs (Jeff Linebaugh)
2. 07:43 AM - paint (Barry Hancock)
3. 09:21 AM - Re: Vortice Generators (VGs) (Jerry Painter)
4. 09:41 AM - Re: Vortice Generators (VGs) (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 10:22 AM - Re: VGs (Brian Lloyd)
6. 12:26 PM - [ Egon Mahr ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
7. 01:36 PM - Re: [ Egon Mahr ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Jim Griffin)
8. 01:56 PM - spins (Rick Swanson)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
In regards to the Vortex Generators... there is a Yak 52 at my home airport that
had VGs installed. It had pretty dramatic results. The stall speed lowered,
of course, but the character was improved greatly, especially power on. They
also installed VGs on the vertical stabilizer, just forward of the rudder.
This was where they noticed big changes for the better with increased rudder
effectiveness. The BIG change, though, was that the amount of rudder pressure
(push on the rudder) required for spin recoveries was greatly reduced.
With the 52 characterstics as they are, I have been surprised that more people
haven't tried VGS on the 52. Not sure that the benefit would be as great for
the CJ... :
)
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Like Pappy said, prep is everything. You can have the best looking
paint job in the world when you pick up the plane, but a year later (or
less) paint will start falling off if the prep isn't done. This is
where the cost (labor) fluctuates so much.
So, if you aren't concerned about your paint job lasting 10 years then
go for something cheaper ($6-8K). If you want a quality job that will
last you're looking at $10K+, and if you want a show quality job you're
looking at something closer to $15K.
Two things I've found to be VERY important when working with paint shops.
1) Be *very* specific with *every* detail, and GET IT IN WRITING UP
FRONT!
2) Oversee as much of the process as possible.....if there's something
you don't like, insist on them doing it right. Most shops will try to
talk their way around re-doing work, but remember it's *your* paint job.
Also, many places will just hose paint into the wheel wells...if you
don't mind, that's fine. Otherwise make sure they tape everything off.
Good luck!
Barry
Barry Hancock
Director of Operations
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Vortice Generators (VGs) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Hal,
You probably know that Eddie Andreini's Yak-9 "Barbarossa" had VG's
installed by Paul Robertson at Arlington Muni (KAWO) a few years ago.
Beautiful airplane. Bud Granley did the test flying and told me the
stall speed dropped by 10 or 15 kts (!) and behavior was much improved.
Bud is one the most respected airshow and Yak pilots anywhere, but
apparently not well known (by the public) outside the Pacific NW. It
would be interesting to see what VG's would do for a -52 or CJ. By the
way, Bud told me he never spins ANY airplane, especially -52's. His -52
was lost (along with a couple of good guys) a couple of years ago in a
stall-spin-falling-leaf accident. If any of you listers have never
heard of Bud or Ross (ex-snowbird) Granley, you've been missing
something. They do back to back formation aerobatics with their -55 and
-18T. The -55 has VG's, too. Not sure about the -18T. IMHO Bud does
the best T-6 show you'll see anywhere, like snaps on takeoff. Don't
know why they don't get much media attention. If you listers ever get
the chance don't miss these guys--they are legends in this part of the
country and really terrific guys. None better nowhere. They're
probably going to be doing their stuff at the Arlington fly-in next
week, KAWO on your GPS dial. Best low speed aerobatics/energy control
show you'll ever see. Terrific stuff. Was Bud the first to hover
(upright and inverted) a fixed wing aircraft? I see others doing it
now, but first saw him do it many years ago in his -55.
Jerry Painter
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Vortice Generators (VGs) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Jerry,
I'm curious as to why an expert such as Bud would say " he never spins ANY
airplane, especially -52's". Did he elaborate? I think many in our group
would be interested in hearing his reasoning.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Vortice Generators (VGs)
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
>
> Hal,
>
> You probably know that Eddie Andreini's Yak-9 "Barbarossa" had VG's
> installed by Paul Robertson at Arlington Muni (KAWO) a few years ago.
> Beautiful airplane. Bud Granley did the test flying and told me the
> stall speed dropped by 10 or 15 kts (!) and behavior was much improved.
> Bud is one the most respected airshow and Yak pilots anywhere, but
> apparently not well known (by the public) outside the Pacific NW. It
> would be interesting to see what VG's would do for a -52 or CJ. By the
> way, Bud told me he never spins ANY airplane, especially -52's. His -52
> was lost (along with a couple of good guys) a couple of years ago in a
> stall-spin-falling-leaf accident. If any of you listers have never
> heard of Bud or Ross (ex-snowbird) Granley, you've been missing
> something. They do back to back formation aerobatics with their -55 and
> -18T. The -55 has VG's, too. Not sure about the -18T. IMHO Bud does
> the best T-6 show you'll see anywhere, like snaps on takeoff. Don't
> know why they don't get much media attention. If you listers ever get
> the chance don't miss these guys--they are legends in this part of the
> country and really terrific guys. None better nowhere. They're
> probably going to be doing their stuff at the Arlington fly-in next
> week, KAWO on your GPS dial. Best low speed aerobatics/energy control
> show you'll ever see. Terrific stuff. Was Bud the first to hover
> (upright and inverted) a fixed wing aircraft? I see others doing it
> now, but first saw him do it many years ago in his -55.
>
> Jerry Painter
>
>
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jeff Linebaugh wrote:
> With the 52 characterstics as they are, I have been surprised that more
> people haven't tried VGS on the 52. Not sure that the benefit would
> be as great for the CJ... : )
I would love more rudder effectiveness for the CJ6 at low airspeeds. VGs
on the vertical stab might be just the ticket.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 6
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| Subject: | [ Egon Mahr ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Egon Mahr <egon@hinet.net.au>
Subject: Restoration with M14 conversion
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/egon@hinet.net.au.07.05.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: [ Egon Mahr ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
Nice paint job Egon. I hope that sheila on the side looks at least something
like your wife or you will be buying some paint stripper soon.
Jim Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
Subject: Yak-List: [ Egon Mahr ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares
<pictures@matronics.com>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Egon Mahr <egon@hinet.net.au>
>
>
> Subject: Restoration with M14 conversion
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/egon@hinet.net.au.07.05.2003/index.html
>
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include
the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures@matronics.com
>
>
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rick Swanson" <rswanson@hometownnrh.net>
I am also curious. What does he think he's doing when he does a snap on takeoff?
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