Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:29 AM - Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai (Dave Strawn)
2. 04:47 AM - Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai (cjpilot710@aol.com)
3. 06:33 AM - Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai (Doug)
4. 07:40 AM - Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai (Brian Lloyd)
5. 07:53 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 07/11/03 (John W Finley)
6. 08:26 AM - Re: batteries (Brian Lloyd)
7. 09:22 AM - Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai (Doug)
8. 11:20 AM - (Jerry Painter)
9. 02:08 PM - Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai (Dave Strawn)
10. 02:40 PM - Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai (Brian Lloyd)
11. 02:43 PM - Yak list-Painter-spin-Scholl (Roger Baker)
12. 03:35 PM - Re: Re: batteries (Jon Boede)
13. 04:57 PM - Re: (Frank Haertlein)
14. 06:49 PM - Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai (Walt Lannon)
15. 07:17 PM - Re: (Lee Taylor)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dave Strawn" <dastrawn@mindspring.com>
Ernie,
This engine was overhauled in China. You might check with Doug Sapp or Jim
Selby for someone who overhauls the 285 in USA.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> Do you have someone that overhauls the 285 here in the US????
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Strawn" <dastrawn@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Dave Strawn" <dastrawn@mindspring.com>
> >
> > CJers,
> >
> > Need some advice on break-in procedures for first time overhauled
Housai.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 7/12/2003 7:29:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dastrawn@mindspring.com writes:
>
>
> This engine was overhauled in China. You might check with Doug Sapp or Jim
> Selby for someone who overhauls the 285 in USA.
>
> Dave
>
Its a good idea to check with Doug or Jim, but you may find these were broken
in already on the test stands in a test cell.
Jim Goolsby
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Guys,
I am sure Dave understands that this engine was test run in China for about
4-5 hours as all Chinese engines are. I think he is looking for suggestions
about what oil the majority of you use, and rather you run them as normal
from the get go or if you baby them for the first few hours. I have my
personal opinions, but I think Dave was trying to get a feel for the popular
opinion among fellow yaksters as to how to treat a fresh overhauled engine.
Your comments on the subject would be appreciated.
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/12/2003 7:29:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> dastrawn@mindspring.com writes:
>
>
> >
> >
> > This engine was overhauled in China. You might check with Doug Sapp or
Jim
> > Selby for someone who overhauls the 285 in USA.
> >
> > Dave
> >
>
> Its a good idea to check with Doug or Jim, but you may find these were
broken
> in already on the test stands in a test cell.
> Jim Goolsby
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Doug wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Guys,
> I am sure Dave understands that this engine was test run in China for about
> 4-5 hours as all Chinese engines are. I think he is looking for suggestions
> about what oil the majority of you use, and rather you run them as normal
> from the get go or if you baby them for the first few hours. I have my
> personal opinions, but I think Dave was trying to get a feel for the popular
> opinion among fellow yaksters as to how to treat a fresh overhauled engine.
> Your comments on the subject would be appreciated.
I sent him break-in instructions based on an engine with minimal test-stand time.
I still think my advice to him of running the engine as hard as possible on
the first flight while looking for a drop in CHT signifying ring seating is
valid but the CHT drop is not likely to be as pronounced if the engine has been
run on the stand for 4 hours. I also advised him to operate the engine at or
above 75% power as much as possible for the first 50 hours in order to ensure
that the break-in proceeds without a chance for the cylinder walls to glaze.
*NEVER* baby an engine while breaking it in. That is just begging for poor oil
control and early cylinder failure due to excessive blow-by due to glazing of
the cylinder walls. You need the high BMEPs caused by high MAP operation to
ensure good ring-to-cylinder pressure during break-in. You can pull back the
RPM a bit but keep the MAPs high.
As for oil, I would run either Phillips 20W50-M (non-dispersant break-in oil) or
Phillips 25W60 AD oil. I have always liked a non-AD "mineral" oil for break
in and that is what the 20W50-M is with the exception of being a multi-vis oil
which will give better initial flow through the engine when cool and better
viscosity when hot. Otherwise it behaves just like straight mineral oil.
I also advised him to change the oil at 20 hours and then again at 50 hours.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 07/11/03 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: John W Finley <finleycj6@juno.com>
Re: Batteries
When Les Crowder modified my CJ he put in two UPS (uninteruptible
power supply) batteries from a computer store. These are two 12v batt's
are wired in series. They cost about $50 ea. and work very well. No
problems except that if you run them completely flat, they're gone...John
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
John W Finley wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: John W Finley <finleycj6@juno.com>
>
> Re: Batteries
> When Les Crowder modified my CJ he put in two UPS (uninteruptible
> power supply) batteries from a computer store. These are two 12v batt's
> are wired in series. They cost about $50 ea. and work very well. No
> problems except that if you run them completely flat, they're gone...John
These are probably AGM batteries. That is what gets used in most UPS's these days.
You are right that running them completely flat will damage them but that
holds true for any lead-acid battery. Even so, you can usually coax them back
to useful life once or twice with a couple of proper charge/discharge cycles.
Gell-cells seem to be a bit more able to withstand damage from a total discharge
but one should never run any lead-acid battery completely flat.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Brian,
I agree with all you have said, except for oil. Due to the heat, as you
know its well over 100F where the aircraft is at right now. Temp management
of a fresh engine in that kind of heat is rough to say the least. I am
afraid that he may be very deep in the red most of the time, due to a
combination of the outside temps, new tight engine, and 75% + power
settings. My recommendation would be a heavy weight straight mineral oil,
and fly it at first light, when it's coolest. Your oil change interval is
about right assuming that he has a filter installed.
Best,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Doug wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> >
> > Guys,
> > I am sure Dave understands that this engine was test run in China for
about
> > 4-5 hours as all Chinese engines are. I think he is looking for
suggestions
> > about what oil the majority of you use, and rather you run them as
normal
> > from the get go or if you baby them for the first few hours. I have my
> > personal opinions, but I think Dave was trying to get a feel for the
popular
> > opinion among fellow yaksters as to how to treat a fresh overhauled
engine.
> > Your comments on the subject would be appreciated.
>
> I sent him break-in instructions based on an engine with minimal
test-stand time. I still think my advice to him of running the engine as
hard as possible on the first flight while looking for a drop in CHT
signifying ring seating is valid but the CHT drop is not likely to be as
pronounced if the engine has been run on the stand for 4 hours. I also
advised him to operate the engine at or above 75% power as much as possible
for the first 50 hours in order to ensure that the break-in proceeds without
a chance for the cylinder walls to glaze.
>
> *NEVER* baby an engine while breaking it in. That is just begging for
poor oil control and early cylinder failure due to excessive blow-by due to
glazing of the cylinder walls. You need the high BMEPs caused by high MAP
operation to ensure good ring-to-cylinder pressure during break-in. You can
pull back the RPM a bit but keep the MAPs high.
>
> As for oil, I would run either Phillips 20W50-M (non-dispersant break-in
oil) or Phillips 25W60 AD oil. I have always liked a non-AD "mineral" oil
for break in and that is what the 20W50-M is with the exception of being a
multi-vis oil which will give better initial flow through the engine when
cool and better viscosity when hot. Otherwise it behaves just like straight
mineral oil.
>
> I also advised him to change the oil at 20 hours and then again at 50
hours.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Hal,
Thanks for tracking Bud down. I was beginning to feel I'd put my foot
in his mouth. Been watching him and Ross perform all week and am more
impressed with each flight.
Sad truth is a lot of very capable, proficient pilots have been killed
doing INTENTIONAL spins in airplanes they've spun many times. Too many
in our favorite airplanes, especially Yak-52's. Gene Beggs' book is a
must read for anyone serious about the subject. I saw Art Scholl do his
trademark 27 turn inverted flat spin many times at low altitude--who
would guess he would die in that airplane in an inverted flat spin?
When you know someone who is a much more capable pilot than yourself has
been killed doing a maneuver you've done in the same kind of airplane it
makes you a little more humble. Too many good people have been killed
to make blanket statements about spins being stable maneuvers, that
they should be part of every REAL pilot's training, that only wimps
avoid them etc. etc. As Beggs notes, some of our most popular trainers
(Citrabrias, C-150's) have modes that do not respond to normal recovery
techniques and every year a few discover the problem and sacrifice their
lives. Cocksure attitudes do not a recovery technique make.
Jerry Painter
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dave Strawn" <dastrawn@mindspring.com>
Doug,
Thanks for the clarification. That exactly the information I'm looking for.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Guys,
> I am sure Dave understands that this engine was test run in China for
about
> 4-5 hours as all Chinese engines are. I think he is looking for
suggestions
> about what oil the majority of you use, and rather you run them as normal
> from the get go or if you baby them for the first few hours. I have my
> personal opinions, but I think Dave was trying to get a feel for the
popular
> opinion among fellow yaksters as to how to treat a fresh overhauled
engine.
> Your comments on the subject would be appreciated.
>
> Always yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 7/12/2003 7:29:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > dastrawn@mindspring.com writes:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > This engine was overhauled in China. You might check with Doug Sapp
or
> Jim
> > > Selby for someone who overhauls the 285 in USA.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> >
> > Its a good idea to check with Doug or Jim, but you may find these were
> broken
> > in already on the test stands in a test cell.
> > Jim Goolsby
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Doug wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Brian,
> I agree with all you have said, except for oil. Due to the heat, as you
> know its well over 100F where the aircraft is at right now. Temp management
> of a fresh engine in that kind of heat is rough to say the least. I am
> afraid that he may be very deep in the red most of the time, due to a
> combination of the outside temps, new tight engine, and 75% + power
> settings.
In my experience multi-vis oil tends to run cooler than a straight-weight oil under
a high-load situation. But oil temp management with the oil-cooler door
is important. It is most important to keep the engine outlet oil temp below the
120C limit. Remember, US oil is designed to operate at higher temps than the
specs for the engine so if one adheres to the Chinese spec you are already
running the oil cooler than it was designed for. This would also favor a multi-vis
oil because it flows better at lower temperature.
> My recommendation would be a heavy weight straight mineral oil,
> and fly it at first light, when it's coolest. Your oil change interval is
> about right assuming that he has a filter installed.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 11
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| Subject: | Yak list-Painter-spin-Scholl |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Baker" <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
I'm not sure that I can buy into Mr. Painters premise that"many" pilots have
been killed doing spins in aircraft that they have spun many times...unless
those pilots have moved outside of a safe envelope for doing spins; have
altered the airplane, or have developed some type of cognitive problem.
It strikes me that Mr. Painters' statement "Too many in our favorite
airplanes, especially Yak-52's" is a continuation of the commercial campaign
to enhance the reputation of another type of airplane at the expense of the
reputation of 52's. This marketing ploy for another type of airplane has
resulted in an irrational condemnation of the spin characteristics of the 52
(often by persons who have no personal experience with the airplane at all)
when, in reality, it is an extremely predictable and consistant airplane in
any of its' spin modes.
I am quite involved in 52's and find them to be extremely rewarding
airplanes. I also find the "other airplane" to be a very pleasant airplane
and have no axe to grind in either case.
As to Art Scholl, Mr. Painter refers to having seen Mr. Scholl do his "27
turn inverted, etc. etc"....and then goes on to say "who would guess he
would die in that airplane (I assume Mr. Painter is referring to Scholls'
Chipmunk) in an inverted flat spin?" In reality, Mr. Scholl did not die in
his Chipmunk; but in a Pitts S-2 with a large movie camera mounted in the
front cockpit. He was well offshore of Palomar airport in Carlsbad,
California and there were no witnesses, so what maneuver he might have been
doing at the time of the accident would be pure speculation.
I am not being critical of Mr. Painter. I am just interested in speculation
being identified as speculation and in "facts" being factual.
Here's to good training in all our airplanes and to "staying inside the
envelope".
Roger Baker
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
I went through 2 (yes, two) $1,300.00 Concorde batteries (and never got
any money back from the $*
%#@
%s) in the L-39 before realizing that
"real" airplane batteries are 1950s technology (at best) and that
"experimental" frequently means "not forced to use ancient junk". :-)
Check www.batterymart.com for the Odessey batteries -- a pair of the ones
in metal jackets wired in series for 24v are more battery than you're ever
going to need and they're so leak-less ("nonspillable") that they can be
shipped ready-to-go via regular UPS.
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> John W Finley wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: John W Finley <finleycj6@juno.com>
>>
>> Re: Batteries
>> When Les Crowder modified my CJ he put in two UPS (uninteruptible
>> power supply) batteries from a computer store. These are two 12v
>> batt's are wired in series. They cost about $50 ea. and work very
>> well. No problems except that if you run them completely flat, they're
>> gone...John
>
> These are probably AGM batteries. That is what gets used in most UPS's
> these days. You are right that running them completely flat will damage
> them but that holds true for any lead-acid battery. Even so, you can
> usually coax them back to useful life once or twice with a couple of
> proper charge/discharge cycles. Gell-cells seem to be a bit more able
> to withstand damage from a total discharge but one should never run any
> lead-acid battery completely flat.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Jerry, Yaksters;
When you talk about professional pilots auguring in during a spin I'd
venture to say that it isn't because of the airplane. I say this because
of the aerobatic training I got years ago. I learned from the Air Force
F-4 Phantom jocks who used to moonlight at Midfield aviation back when
George AFB was still open. After 45 hours of dual instruction to the
intermediate level I was asked to do my check ride. Basically, there
wasn't any plan.....just the words "OK, let me see what you got!"
All the maneuvers went well......until we did the spin. All I said was
"How about a spin?" We were at 8000 when I proceeded to spin her...a
Citabria. I went into the spin without a plan. That is to say that I had
no set number of turns in mind....I just started spinning her. The ride
was so neat that at 1500 AGL the instructor finally said "I GOT THE
AIRPLANE!" I busted my check ride for breaking minimums.
Post flight analysis by the "Major" informed me that there is a tendency
to become mesmerized by a spin......especially if you have no set number
of turns in mind before ending the spin. It is quite possible that I
would have spun her until there was no chance for recovery......hey! I
was having a ball! The "Major" told me that some that many otherwise
excellent aerobatic performers probably died in their spins because they
didn't initiate recovery procedures, in perfectly recoverable airplanes,
before it was too late because they didn't have a PLAN....i.e. they
became "mesmerized" (gee isn't this fun!"). You should always have a set
number of turns in mind before entering the spin and THEN initiate
recovery.
The crux of the lesson was that, when it comes to spins, is that you
better have a set number of turns in mind and to keep that in the
forefront of your mind as you go thru the maneuver! Otherwise you may
end up like countless other "professionals" who, inexplicably, spun
their planes into the ground.
I don't see this fact taught in your typical aerobatic flight school and
I think if it were there would be fewer "inexplicable spins into the
ground by otherwise professional pilots flying capable aircraft".
Frank
N9110M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Subject: Yak-List:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Hal,
Thanks for tracking Bud down. I was beginning to feel I'd put my foot
in his mouth. Been watching him and Ross perform all week and am more
impressed with each flight.
Sad truth is a lot of very capable, proficient pilots have been killed
doing INTENTIONAL spins in airplanes they've spun many times. Too many
in our favorite airplanes, especially Yak-52's. Gene Beggs' book is a
must read for anyone serious about the subject. I saw Art Scholl do his
trademark 27 turn inverted flat spin many times at low altitude--who
would guess he would die in that airplane in an inverted flat spin? When
you know someone who is a much more capable pilot than yourself has been
killed doing a maneuver you've done in the same kind of airplane it
makes you a little more humble. Too many good people have been killed
to make blanket statements about spins being stable maneuvers, that
they should be part of every REAL pilot's training, that only wimps
avoid them etc. etc. As Beggs notes, some of our most popular trainers
(Citrabrias, C-150's) have modes that do not respond to normal recovery
techniques and every year a few discover the problem and sacrifice their
lives. Cocksure attitudes do not a recovery technique make.
Jerry Painter
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai |
tests=QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,USER_IN_WHITELIST
version=2.55
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Hi Brian;
Intended to jump into this one earlier but got lazy. Have to agree with Doug
here. There is nothing better than straight mineral oil for break-in. For
radials and normal temperatures it should be SAE50 (SUS1100).
As Doug suggested one should be cognizant of the OAT and fly in cooler air.
If it is necessary to do this in very cold weather then Phillips 20W50-M
would be an advantage.
Phillips aviation oils are all mineral, not synthetic but they contain
viscosity modifiers and (except for the -M) ashless dispersant additives.
A paragraph in P&W S.B. #1183 (Approved Oils) leads one to the conclusion
that these additives detract from the hot end properties.
This paragraph recommends the use of Grade 1120 (SAE60) rather than 1100
(SAE50) in all P&W engines using additive type oils.
First oil change during break-in should be at about 10 hours with a full
check of screens, sump & filter if installed.
The Chinese overhauled engines I have installed were factory test run for 4
to 5 hrs and were well started on break-in. They were not a problem.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original
Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Break-in Procedure for 285 hp Housai
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Doug wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> >
> > Brian,
> > I agree with all you have said, except for oil. Due to the heat, as you
> > know its well over 100F where the aircraft is at right now. Temp
management
> > of a fresh engine in that kind of heat is rough to say the least. I am
> > afraid that he may be very deep in the red most of the time, due to a
> > combination of the outside temps, new tight engine, and 75% + power
> > settings.
>
> In my experience multi-vis oil tends to run cooler than a straight-weight
oil under a high-load situation. But oil temp management with the
oil-cooler door is important. It is most important to keep the engine
outlet oil temp below the 120C limit. Remember, US oil is designed to
operate at higher temps than the specs for the engine so if one adheres to
the Chinese spec you are already running the oil cooler than it was designed
for. This would also favor a multi-vis oil because it flows better at lower
temperature.
>
> > My recommendation would be a heavy weight straight mineral oil,
> > and fly it at first light, when it's coolest. Your oil change interval
is
> > about right assuming that he has a filter installed.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@idcomm.com>
Jerry:
I firmly agree with your treatise about
PLANNING any acro maneuver, including spins.
I once did an instructor recertification check ride with an FAA
examiner. We were flying a Christen Eagle, and he was current in a
Pitts Special. I called for a roll, and he started to do it. I said,
"WHOA! What are your plans if this maneuver doesn't go as planned?"
Total blank.
We had quite a discussion back on the ground exactly in line with your
comments about preplanning spins.
NO AEROBATIC MANEUVER SHOULD EVER BE ENTERED BEFORE THE PILOT
GOES THROUGH A MENTAL CHECKLIST OF WHAT HE IS GOING TO DO SHOULD THINGS
NOT GO AS PLANNED. As to not even planning the maneuver-------
Lee Taylor
Along those lines, I would appreciate a comment session with
those of you who are expert acro pilots, concerning a situation I found
myself in many years ago.
Was flying a Christen Eagle, and was quite familiar with the
basic setup of the plane. I had received a good session of training in
inverted flat spins, and had done all the initial spin testing,
including inverted flat spins, in this plane. Quite a few of them. All
successful and by-the-book. I was comfortable with them and felt
competent doing them.
Took the plane out one day with a friend in the front seat, and
the owner of the plane, unbeknownst to me at the time, had moved the
battery from behind the pilot's seat, (where it was needed while I was
the primary pilot) to just behind the firewall, (where it balanced the
plane better with him in it, since he weighed just about twice my
weight), and for the first time in spins, I had a passenger. Bottom
line was that the plane was now considerably more nose-heavy balance
than when I had flown it before. A fact I wasn't aware of.
After a session of acro, I asked my passenger if he would like
to see an IFS. He said yes, so I climbed up to 9500, which is the
altitude I always used for flat spins. (This was in Sacramento, so that
was also AGL).
Entered the inverted spin per normal, added power, reversed
aileron, and expected the flat spin to develop as usual. It didn't do
it, instead went into an accelerated spin with quite high G loads.
Since things hadn't gone per plan, I immediately initiated flat spin
recovery, which was idle power, let go, and reverse rudder.
The airplane didn't recover, it accelerated to the point that I
was completely unable to ascertain which direction it was spinning, or
whether it was upright or inverted. It was just plain spinning so fast
that every visual input was a complete blur.
I THINK what I eventually did (after quite a bit of
experimenting that didn't work), was pull in standard upright spin
controls, (idle power, full back centered stick, hard rudder), and then
when the plane stabilized in a normal upright spin, when I popped the
stick forward and opposite rudder, the plane recovered VERY QUICKLY,
literally snapped out of the spin vertical-down, and I then pulled up.
At that point, we were at 2500'. I had lost 7,000' in a very violent,
out-of-control spin that I didn't recognize. Only sufficient altitude
and control experimenting (and a whole lot of luck) effected the
recovery.
I still am not completely sure what happened. I know the
nose-heavy condition prevented the normal entry to the IFS, but I would
like other expert comments about what happened after that.
And by the way, I DIDN'T attempt any more IFS's with that C.G.
situation! Flew the airplane a lot more, but avoided that particular
maneuver situation.
Lee Taylor
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