Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:02 AM - "Found Man" Formation (Alan Cockrell)
2. 06:27 AM - Re: Assistance in S. Florida (Brian Lloyd)
3. 06:28 AM - Re: "Found Man" Formation (Brian Lloyd)
4. 11:46 AM - Re: Assistance in S. Florida (Brian Lloyd)
5. 11:47 AM - Re: "Found Man" Formation (Lee Taylor)
6. 11:53 AM - Re: "Found Man" Formation (Lee Taylor)
7. 12:01 PM - Re: "Found Man" Formation (Brian Lloyd)
8. 02:21 PM - Re: Assistance in S. Florida (cjpilot710@aol.com)
9. 04:26 PM - Re: "Found Man" Formation (Terry Calloway)
10. 05:33 PM - Re: "Found Man" Formation (Lee Taylor)
11. 06:29 PM - Re: "Found Man" Formation (Brian Lloyd)
12. 07:59 PM - Brian Lloyd > Re: "Found Man" Formation (Alan Cockrell)
13. 08:05 PM - Re: Assistance in S. Florida (Ernie)
14. 10:25 PM - I-3 (Barry Hancock)
Message 1
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| Subject: | "Found Man" Formation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Alan Cockrell" <yakdriver@comcast.net>
Does anyone know if the following has ever been done before? A wedding seremony
was held yesteday at our airfield. We offered a formation flyby as a tribute
to the couple, and the bridegroom, Johnny Hooper, requested it be a missing man
formation. We thought that may be a little insensitive for the bride so we flew
a "found man" formation. The flight was composed of a Mooney in the lead,
with 2 Yak-52s and a CJ-6 in finger-tip formation. The flight came over the wedding
party with a hole where number 3 should be. We picked Gordy Seuell, our
most skilled formation pilot, to be number 3. It challenged him but he pulled
into the hole at the precise moment. It was a neat idea that even impressed the
minister, who took notes to prepare a future serman on the Found Man Formation.
I'm thinking that this is a new invention and am posting notice that, unless
anyone else claims to have seen it before, it was invented on July 19, 2003
at Moontown Airfield, Huntsville, Alabama.
Alan
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Assistance in S. Florida |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> Brain,
> How can I help? I'm free the next four days.
Thanks Jim. I appreciate your offer of assistance. I have written you private
email.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: "Found Man" Formation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Alan Cockrell wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Alan Cockrell" <yakdriver@comcast.net>
>
> Does anyone know if the following has ever been done before?
I have never heard of it but trying to pull into #3 of a fingertip formation strikes
me as somewhat hazardous since #3 has to join/pass #4 and transition to
joining on #1. It isn't something I would try.
If I were doing something similar, I would have #4 pull up into the slot in a diamond
formation. #4 has a clear underrun path if the join-up goes bad. The
interesting thing about this approach is it has other interesting connotations
for a wedding ceremony, especially if #4 has a problem with fore/aft stationkeeping
(wink, wink, nudge, nudge).
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Assistance in S. Florida |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> Brain,
> How can I help? I'm free the next four days.
> Jim Goolsby
Hey Pappy, what's your phone number?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 5
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| Subject: | "Found Man" Formation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@idcomm.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: "Found Man" Formation
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Alan Cockrell wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Alan Cockrell"
<yakdriver@comcast.net>
>
> Does anyone know if the following has ever been done before?
I have never heard of it but trying to pull into #3 of a fingertip
formation strikes me as somewhat hazardous since #3 has to join/pass #4
and transition to joining on #1. It isn't something I would try.
If I were doing something similar, I would have #4 pull up into the slot
in a diamond formation. #4 has a clear underrun path if the join-up
goes bad. The interesting thing about this approach is it has other
interesting connotations for a wedding ceremony, especially if #4 has a
problem with fore/aft stationkeeping (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).
-------------------------------------------
THIS sounds like fun! If I was #4, that would be the sloppiest,
weavingest, teasingingest flying ever done! #4, being outside and
unrestricted, could do a lot of puppy-dog antics.
Would definitely want some good formation people. We had an RV
formation show at Longmont here a couple of weeks ago, and it was a
l-i-t-t-l-e scary. Not at all dangerous, just not competent.
And then there was the T-28 demo. THOSE GUYS WERE GOOD! Really
fun to watch.
Lee Taylor
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 6
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| Subject: | "Found Man" Formation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@idcomm.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Cockrell
Subject: Yak-List: "Found Man" Formation
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Alan Cockrell" <yakdriver@comcast.net>
Does anyone know if the following has ever been done before? A wedding
seremony was held yesteday at our airfield. We offered a formation flyby
as a tribute to the couple, and the bridegroom, Johnny Hooper, requested
it be a missing man formation. We thought that may be a little
insensitive for the bride so we flew a "found man" formation. The flight
was composed of a Mooney in the lead, with 2 Yak-52s and a CJ-6 in
finger-tip formation. The flight came over the wedding party with a hole
where number 3 should be. We picked Gordy Seuell, our most skilled
formation pilot, to be number 3. It challenged him but he pulled into
the hole at the precise moment. It was a neat idea that even impressed
the minister, who took notes to prepare a future serman on the Found Man
Formation. I'm thinking that this is a new invention and am posting
notice that, unless anyone else claims to have seen it before, it was
invented on July 19, 2003 at Moontown Airfield, Huntsville, Alabama.
Alan
I think this is a GREAT idea, Alan. 55 years of being an
aviation nut, I have never heard of it before. CONGRATULATIONS! This
is a POSITIVE flight, without the sad connotations of the missing man.
Would give aviation watchers a wonderful, nice image, rather than
dwelling on the negative, sad things.
Lee Taylor
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: "Found Man" Formation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Lee Taylor wrote:
> THIS sounds like fun! If I was #4, that would be the sloppiest,
> weavingest, teasingingest flying ever done! #4, being outside and
> unrestricted, could do a lot of puppy-dog antics.
Well, I was thinking of a diamond formation with #4 tucked into the slot behind
#1 and between #2 and #3. Think of #4 just slide'n right up into that vee.
> Would definitely want some good formation people. We had an RV
> formation show at Longmont here a couple of weeks ago, and it was a
> l-i-t-t-l-e scary. Not at all dangerous, just not competent.
There are too many things that can go wrong. It isn't worth your life to try to
fly with people who haven't been trained and don't understand.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Assistance in S. Florida |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
386-467-3313
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: "Found Man" Formation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <TCalloway@datatechnique.com>
Sounds like "You know your a RedNeck Pilot when your friends fly the Found Man
formation at your wedding.".
Message 10
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| Subject: | "Found Man" Formation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@idcomm.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: "Found Man" Formation
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Lee Taylor wrote:
> THIS sounds like fun! If I was #4, that would be the
sloppiest,
> weavingest, teasingingest flying ever done! #4, being outside and
> unrestricted, could do a lot of puppy-dog antics.
Well, I was thinking of a diamond formation with #4 tucked into the slot
behind #1 and between #2 and #3. Think of #4 just slide'n right up into
that vee.
> Would definitely want some good formation people. We had an
RV
> formation show at Longmont here a couple of weeks ago, and it was a
> l-i-t-t-l-e scary. Not at all dangerous, just not competent.
There are too many things that can go wrong. It isn't worth your life
to try to fly with people who haven't been trained and don't understand.
Brian, your comments are very, VERY true. But for competent
people, I think this is still a great idea, one that can be worked on so
that it would be safe.
Lee Taylor
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: "Found Man" Formation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Lee Taylor wrote:
>> Well, I was thinking of a diamond formation with #4 tucked into the slot
>> behind #1 and between #2 and #3. Think of #4 just slide'n right up into
>> that vee.
>
> ...
> Brian, your comments are very, VERY true. But for competent
> people, I think this is still a great idea, one that can be worked on so
> that it would be safe.
Trying to join into the #3 position in a finger-4 formation strikes me as just
too dangerous. I can't see a good way to make that safe but others with more
experience than I might have a different thought. That is why I suggested joining
into the diamond since there is a clear underrun path for the #4 man joining
up. Besides, as I said, it has other interesting connotations.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Brian Lloyd > Re: "Found Man" Formation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Alan Cockrell" <yakdriver@comcast.net>
>>>Trying to join into the #3 position in a finger-4 formation strikes me as just
too dangerous. I can't see a good way to make that safe but others with more
experience than I might have a different thought. That is why I suggested joining
into the diamond since there is a clear underrun path for the #4 man joining
up. Besides, as I said, it has other interesting connotations.<<<
Brian,
There is no easy and totally safe way to do this. That's why we picked a Fighter
Weapons School graduate with F-4, F-5, and A-7 time to do it. Joing into the
slot position in the diamond is easy if moving laterally from the wing, but it
is tricky when joing from a high energy staight ahead closure. An overshoot
would result in a dangerous underrun of the leader. Conversely, joining in the
traditional fingertip slot would provide a straight ahead escape path in case
of an overshoot. This is better, especially if the overshoot contingency is prebriefed.
Alan
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Assistance in S. Florida |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I have room
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Assistance in S. Florida
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Would any of you in S. Florida be willing to play host to my Aztec for a
week or two? Seems that Tropical Depression 6 has us boresighted. I may
need to get my airplane off the island by tomorrow or Monday in order to
have time to get my boat to a safe anchorage.
>
> For that matter, is there anyone on the list who is current in a Piper
Aztec who might like an all-expenses paid trip to the US Virgin Islands in
the next three days?
>
> <sigh> I was hoping to have swapped the Aztec for the Comanche which my
wife can fly but it didn't happen in time. Now I have two vehicles for
which I am the only one in my family here qualified to operate.
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>
>
> Barry,
>
> How is the new fire breathing, dogfighting machine of yours (Interovia
> E-3)?
>
> By now that thing should be breaking all kinds of envelopes records
> over the
> CJ.
>
> Hope all is well and keep us informed on the E-3 progress and what you
> find
> while flying it.
>
> Enquiring minds what to know...........
>
> Mark "SHREK" Schrick
The Interavia I-3 (Russians pronounce "I" as "E") is getting a going
over and I'm not going to "explore the envelope" until I have Sergei in
my back seat in mid-August. For now, just trying like heck to get the
CJ ready in time for OSH.... <sigh>
Barrry
>
Barry Hancock
Director of Operations
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
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