Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:17 AM - Re: Yak 18 (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 06:20 AM - Re: Yak 18 (Steve & Donna Hanshew)
3. 06:40 AM - Re: Re: Nomex or no Nomex (Gus Fraser)
4. 07:03 AM - Re: Yak 18 (Ernie)
5. 07:12 AM - Re: Yak 18 (Ernie)
6. 07:20 AM - Re: Yak 18 (Ernie)
7. 08:15 AM - Iversen and Lloya (Steven Johnson)
8. 08:24 AM - Yak 18 redesign (Barry Hancock)
9. 11:44 AM - Re: Yak 18 (Barrington Miles)
10. 12:01 PM - [ Jim Griffin ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
11. 01:25 PM - Osh Kosh Airshow (Jim Griffin)
12. 02:56 PM - NOMEX (Duncan)
13. 04:38 PM - Re: Nomex or No Nomex (Brian Lloyd)
14. 04:41 PM - Re: Yak 18 (Brian Lloyd)
15. 05:22 PM - Key West Routes (cpayne@joimail.com)
16. 07:16 PM - McDonnell Douglas Warranty and Registration Card (Frank Haertlein)
17. 08:44 PM - Re: Nomex or No Nomex (dabear)
18. 10:26 PM - Boston Area (Jon Boede)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Here we go again!!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson"
<tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
>
> Is the Nanchang basically a copy of the Yakovlev model 18 design?
>
> Or did the Chinese redesign the aircraft from scratch??
>
>
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve & Donna Hanshew" <dhanshew@cinci.rr.com>
try www.greendragonflight.com for some info.
----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 18
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> Here we go again!!!!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson"
> <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> >
> > Is the Nanchang basically a copy of the Yakovlev model 18 design?
> >
> > Or did the Chinese redesign the aircraft from scratch??
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Nomex or no Nomex |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Ernie, Stop it already If I laugh much more I may loose control.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernie
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: Nomex or no Nomex
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Firstly,
Arnold doesnt need to wear nomex, he is living tissue over an armor skeleton
and in the case of a fire his skin would burn off but he could keep flying.
I have to wear nomex underwear due to my love of mexican food, its a little
itchy but has kept my outer garments in tact.
I dont think my YPA, and other patches would look very good on my Ralph
Lauren Nomex polo shirts and slacks (its from his fire rescue line).
Women love guys in flight suits, plus at airshows the kids like to get up
close to a real life pilot, they wouldnt know it if we werent wearing our
way cool flight suits. "No problema dude"
If you didnt wear a helmet the best you could do is paint up your headsets,
to match that real cool Piper paint scheme you put on your warbird.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Hancock" <radialpower@cox.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Nomex or no Nomex
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>
> >
>
> Looks like someone has a bone to pick here, but I think you're barking
> up the wrong tree here, Frank.
> >
> > About the flight suit requirement for participating in Red Star
> > Activities............
> > Just as food for thought, fuel lines run thru the cabin of the venerable
> > Cessna 172 as well.
>
> Yes, and the Highway Patrol, USFS, US Customs, etc. ALL wear flight
> suits AND helmets when flying their Cessnas....and they are not even
> flying in formation. Hmmm....
>
> > I have fireproof clothing that don't look like a
> > flight suit. I guess even with that I would be excluded from Red Star
> > Activities.
>
> I'm sure if you could demonstrate that your fireproof clothing provides
> the same protection as a flight suit, and get it approved by the FAST
> board (not our Association, the governing body of formation flying),
> you'd be welcome to wear it. I'd actually like some fireproof clothing,
> Frank, what type of stuff is it and where did you get it?
>
> One thing we all need to remember here is that as a part of ANY
> association there are certain guidelines that need to be followed so as
> to mitigate the liability of the association. Even if this association
> did not require Nomex flight suits, if someone burned up in an
> association sponsored formation activity the association would be found
> negligent for not adhearing to widely accepted standards.
>
> Even as a flight lead, you are responsible for all the pilots in your
> flight, and as such could be held liable as well. Wether the charge
> sticks or not is immaterial, you'll spend a couple of Yaks in legal
> bills.
> > So.........In the famous words of our soon to be governator
> > "hasta la vista, baby"!
>
> I think it's very unfortunate to somehow associate your position with
> one of someone who stands up for what they believe in. I don't think
> Arnold would ever cut and run....
>
> All this over a $40 flight suit? C'mon Frank.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Barry
>
> Barry Hancock
> Director of Operations
> Red Stars, Inc.
> 949.300.5510
> www.allredstar.com
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
>
>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Tom.
Look at the last warbirds magazine, there is a whole article written by Jim
Goolsby on the topic, short answer however is that it was inspired by the
yak 18 (CJ-6a) but became a wholly chinese design (CJ-6b)
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson"
<tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
>
> Is the Nanchang basically a copy of the Yakovlev model 18 design?
>
> Or did the Chinese redesign the aircraft from scratch??
>
>
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
oops, I meant CJ-6 vs CJ-6a
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 18
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> Tom.
>
> Look at the last warbirds magazine, there is a whole article written by
Jim
> Goolsby on the topic, short answer however is that it was inspired by the
> yak 18 (CJ-6a) but became a wholly chinese design (CJ-6b)
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson"
> <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> >
> > Is the Nanchang basically a copy of the Yakovlev model 18 design?
> >
> > Or did the Chinese redesign the aircraft from scratch??
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
oops again, CJ-5 vs CJ-6
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 18
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> Tom.
>
> Look at the last warbirds magazine, there is a whole article written by
Jim
> Goolsby on the topic, short answer however is that it was inspired by the
> yak 18 (CJ-6a) but became a wholly chinese design (CJ-6b)
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson"
> <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> >
> > Is the Nanchang basically a copy of the Yakovlev model 18 design?
> >
> > Or did the Chinese redesign the aircraft from scratch??
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Iversen and Lloya |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steven Johnson" <sajdds@comcast.net>
I would like to contact Gunnar Iversen and Michael Lloya regarding the paint
schemes they used on their Yak 52s. Does anyone know their email addresses?
Please contact me offline. Thanks.
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
On Saturday, August 9, 2003, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> Time: 09:56:05 PM PST US
> From: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson"
> <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
>
> Is the Nanchang basically a copy of the Yakovlev model 18 design?
>
> Or did the Chinese redesign the aircraft from scratch??
HAAAAAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Uh, huhum, um....sorry, I just pictured the look on Pappy's face when he
read that.
Barry Hancock
Director of Operations
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Barrington Miles" <bmiles@austin.rr.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernie
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 18
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
oops again, CJ-5 vs CJ-6
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 18
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> Tom.
>
> Look at the last warbirds magazine, there is a whole article written
by
Jim
> Goolsby on the topic, short answer however is that it was inspired by
the
> yak 18 (CJ-6a) but became a wholly chinese design (CJ-6b)
>
> Ernie
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak 18
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson"
> <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> >
> > Is the Nanchang basically a copy of the Yakovlev model 18 design?
> >
> > Or did the Chinese redesign the aircraft from scratch??
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | [ Jim Griffin ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Jim Griffin <jgriffint28@cox.net>
Subject: Osh Kosh CJ/Yak airshow
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/jgriffint28@cox.net.08.10.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 11
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| Subject: | Osh Kosh Airshow |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
I just posted some pics from the Saturday show at OSH on the photoshare. I couldn't
take any pics on Friday as I was flying my old T-28 in the show but I saw
the guys fly overhead, at mid field, at exactly the right time in a giant vic
and it was perfect. They had twice as many planes for the Tuesday show and I
heard that it was impressive from some of the old big iron warbirders. If you
were not there, I'm sorry you missed it.
Jim Griffin
CJ6-A 273SC
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Duncan" <Duncan1574@hotmail.com>
Still having to have NOMEX suits will for GIBs will put a dmaper on rides
for volunteers at our events. How does the YPA (aka RS) plan to deal with
it?
Russ
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Nomex or No Nomex |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
johnhilterman1@cox.net wrote:
> I guess I'm a little dumbfounded why there seems to be so much resistance to
> wearing a Nomex flight suit. If you're willing to spend the $$ on fireproof
> clothing to fly in a C-172 then it's not that big of a reach to spring less
> than $100 for a decent Nomex flight suit.
No resistance to wearing one. I usually wear one. I am exhibiting resistance
to be told I *must* wear one.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Ernie wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> oops, I meant CJ-6 vs CJ-6a
You are getting warmer. How about CJ-5 vs CJ-6a.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
Floridian Aviators,
I am comtemplating a trip down to Key West with the Missus
in the CJ. Point of origin is Lakeland. Looking at the
charts I notice 3 Victor airways on the west coast cross a
whole lotta water and exit, then re-enter the ADIZ. When I
asked my Missus whether she preferred fighting sharks or
'gators, she screamed "Sharks!", so I guess it's the gator
route which hugs the shore and stays inside the ADIZ.
The stretch along the west coast of the everglades looks
mighty barren. The plan is to hop down to Marathon first,
then west to KEYW. I remember that airliner that got
swallowed whole in the 'glades a few years ago. Is there a
better route? Do folks transit to the East coast first and
follow the chain of islands out?
Craig "single engine and no floats" Payne
Message 16
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| Subject: | McDonnell Douglas Warranty and Registration Card |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: McDonnell Douglas Warranty and Registration Card
Thank you for purchasing a McDonnell Douglas military aircraft. In
order to protect your new investment, please take a few moments to fill
out the warranty registration card below. Answering the survey
questions is not required, but the information will help us to develop
new products that best meet your needs and desires.
1. [_] Mr.
[_] Mrs.
[_] Ms.
[_] Miss
[_] Lt.
[_] Gen.
[_] Comrade
[_] Classified
[_] Other
First Name: ................. Middle Initial:........ Last
Name:.....................................
Password: .............................. (max. 8 char)
Code Name:..............................................
Wear Nomex Flight Suit?......Yes [_] No [_]
Latitude-Longitude-Altitude: ......................
2. Which model of aircraft did you purchase?
[_] F-15 Eagle with included Nomex Flight Suit.
[_] F-16 Falcon with optional Nomex Flight Suit.
[_] F-117A Stealth with radar evading flight suit
[_] Classified
3. Date of purchase (Year/Month/Day): ....../......./......
4. Serial Number:........................................
5. Please indicate where this product was purchased:
[_] Received as gift / aid package with Nomex Flight Suit Included .
[_] Catalogue / showroom
[_] Independent arms broker
[_] Mail order
[_] Discount store
[_] Government surplus
[_] Classified
6. Please indicate how you became aware of the McDonnell Douglas product
you have just purchased:
[_] Heard loud noise, looked up , saw pilot wearing Nomex Flight Suit
and began drooling from lips.
[_] Store display sporting Nomex Flight Suit.
[_] Espionage
[_] Recommended by friend / relative / ally
[_] Political lobbying by manufacturer
[_] Was attacked by one
7. Please indicate the three (3) factors that most influenced your
decision to purchase this McDonnell Douglas product:
[_] Speed / Maneuverability
[_] Price / Value and free , Nomex flight suit with purchase.
[_] Recommended by salesperson
[_] McDonnell Douglas reputation
[_] Advanced Weapons Systems
[_] Negative experience opposing one in combat
8. Please indicate the location(s) where this product will be used:
[_] North America ....... is Nomex flight suit required? Yes[_] No
[_]
[_] Iraq
[_] Aircraft carrier
[_] Iraq
[_] Middle East (not Iraq)
[_] Iraq
[_] Africa
[_] Iraq
[_] Asia / Far East
[_] Iraq
[_] Misc. Third World countries
[_] Iraq
[_] Classified
[_] Iraq
9. Please indicate the products that you currently own or intend to
purchase in the near future:
[_] Color TV
[_] Nomex Flight Suit
[_] VCR
[_] CD Player
[_] Home Computer
[_] Air-to-Air Missiles
[_] ICBM
[_] Space Shuttle
[_] Killer Satellite
[_] Nuclear Weapon
10. How would you describe yourself or your organization? Indicate all
that apply:
[_] Communist / Socialist ...They do require Nomex Flight Suits,
don't they?... Yes [_[ No [_]
[_] Terrorist
[_] Crazed
[_] Neutral
[_] Democratic
[_] Dictatorship with YPA affiliations?
[_] Corrupt
[_] Primitive / Tribal
11. How did you pay for your McDonnell Douglas product?
[_] Deficit spending
[_] Cash
[_] Suitcases of cocaine
[_] Oil revenues
[_] Modeling Nomex Flight suits.
[_] Credit card
[_] Ransom money
[_] Traveler's check
12. Your occupation:
[_] Homemaker
[_] Sales / marketing
[_] Revolutionary
[_] Clerical
[_] Mercenary
[_] Tyrant
[_] Middle management
[_] Eccentric billionaire
[_] Defense Minister / General
[_] Retired
[_] Student
13. To help us better understand our customers, please indicate the
interests and activities in which you and your spouse enjoy
participating on a regular basis:
[_] Golf
[_] Boating / sailing
[_] Sabotage
[_] Mexican Food Connoisseur .......are Nomex flight suit required
for itchy after effects) Yes [_] No [_]
[_] Running / jogging
[_] Propaganda / misinformation
[_] Destabilization / overthrow
[_] Default on loans
[_] Gardening
[_] Basket Weaving while modeling Nomex flight suits.
[_] Black market / smuggling
[_] Collectibles / collections
[_] Watching sports on TV
[_] Wines
[_] Interrogation / torture (Vee have Vaays of making you wear
flight suits!)
[_] Household pets
[_] Crushing rebellions
[_] Espionage / reconnaissance
[_] Fashion clothing with emphasis on suave, Nomex flight suits
[_] Border disputes
[_] Mutually Assured Destruction
Thank you for taking the time to fill out this questionnaire. Your
answers will be used in market studies that will help McDonnell Douglas
serve you better in the future - as well as, allowing you to receive
mailings and special offers from other companies, governments,
extremist groups, and mysterious consortia with possible Nomex flight
suit requirements .
As a bonus for responding to this survey, you will be registered to win
a brand new F-117A (Nomex flight suit included) in our Desert Thunder
Sweepstakes!
-
Comments or suggestions about our fighter planes? Please write to:
McDONNELL DOUGLAS CORPORATION
Marketing Department,
Military Aerospace Division
-
IMPORTANT: This email is intended for the use of the individual
addressee(s) named above and may contain information that is
confidential, privileged or unsuitable for overly sensitive persons with
low self-esteem, no sense of humor or irrational Nomex flight suit
mandates . If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this email is not authorized (either
explicitly or implicitly) and constitutes an irritating social faux pas.
Unless the Nomex induced word "absquatulation" has been used in its
correct context somewhere other than in this warning, it does not have
any legal or grammatical use can and may be ignored.
No animals were harmed in the transmission of this email although
testing indicated potential blowholes in Nomex undergarments from eating
Mexican food. Please disregard the Scottish Terrier, Kelpie, next door
hiding under the bed and cowering due to the extremely loud noises
resulting from flatulence associated with the aforementioned Mexican
food eaters.
Those of you with an overwhelming fear of the unknown will be gratified
to learn that there is no hidden message revealed by reading this
warning backwards, so just ignore that Alert Notice from Microsoft.
However, by pouring a complete circle of salt around yourself and your
computer you can ensure that no harm befalls you and your pets.
If you have received this email in error, please add some nutmeg and egg
whites, whisk and place in a warm oven for 40 minutes.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Nomex or No Nomex |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "dabear" <dabear@damned.org>
Brian,
Just so you know, there will be a maximum life of all Nomex flight
suits allowed to be worn at YPA/ARS events. Since Nomex no longer
give appropriate protection after 4 washings or exposure to the sun,
1 year or 4 washings is the maximum allowed. Pilots and GIBs will
have to provide documentation on the current washing level and
purchase date prior to entering the cockpit at a YPA event. This is
for your protection. It is not just a YPA rule, it is a good idea.
Note: the above message was sarcasm, please treat the message as
such.
From,
No one in particular
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" < >
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Nomex or No Nomex
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> johnhilterman1@cox.net wrote:
>
> > I guess I'm a little dumbfounded why there seems to be so much
resistance to
> > wearing a Nomex flight suit. If you're willing to spend the $$
on fireproof
> > clothing to fly in a C-172 then it's not that big of a reach to
spring less
> > than $100 for a decent Nomex flight suit.
>
> No resistance to wearing one. I usually wear one. I am
exhibiting resistance to be told I *must* wear one.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza,
Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
====
>
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>
====
>
====
>
>
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
I am going to be frog-hopping my CJ from central Texas up to the Boston
area (wearing, of course, my Nomex flight suit for the trip) and will be
there from Aug. 16th through about Sep. 4th.
I am looking for places/people to visit and possibly fly with on the
weekends. I don't have a FAST card yet, but I have about 10 hours of
formation training over the past three months flying with the CAF crew out
of San Marcos, TX (the Tora, Tora, Tora gang).
Jon - jon@email.net
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