Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:55 AM - radium (ron wasson)
2. 10:56 AM - Re: Uplock mounting plate broken (Doug)
3. 11:06 AM - Re: Uplock mounting plate broken (Ron)
4. 11:28 AM - Re: radium (Dave Laird)
5. 12:09 PM - Re: Uplock mounting plate broken (Ernie)
6. 12:18 PM - More Summer Mag Fun (Jon Boede)
7. 01:04 PM - Re: More Summer Mag Fun (Ernie)
8. 01:41 PM - Re: More Summer Mag Fun (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 05:06 PM - Re: More Summer Mag Fun (Brian Lloyd)
10. 07:27 PM - Re: More Summer Mag Fun (Jon Boede)
11. 07:46 PM - Re: More Summer Mag Fun (Desmor944@aol.com)
12. 07:59 PM - Re: More Summer Mag Fun (Desmor944@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: ron wasson <ronwasson@mindspring.com>
Guys
I took a Geiger counter to my CJ today. The gauges are mildly hot. The
throttle, prop, landing, flaps etc. made it go crazy. Doug are new handles
coming from China and when. If not a machine shop friend has offered to make
some out of aluminum. The more the cheaper. Anyone interested. Does Doug
have a complete set he could use to copy.
Ron Wasson
ronwasson@mindspring.com
817-281-3790
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Uplock mounting plate broken |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Frank,
Again, let me say I know little about 52's, but in CJ's the restrictors are
sometimes lost during the replacement or maintenance of the gear components,
as they are very tiny. Many mechanic / drivers simply do not know that the
reason that their gear is slamming up or down is because they are missing
these little parts. Most think (incorrectly)that the gear noise is a
function of how many atms. of pressure they have at the time of retraction
or extension. "my gear only hits hard when I have a full 50 atms." Or they
feel that a bit of slamming is simply the nature of the beast.
I have seen restrictors in a variety of places, at the gear (and flap) valve
(both up and down ports), and at the gear (and flap) actuators. The
restrictors come blank, that is no hole is drilled in them. By varying the
hole size you can accomplish two things, first you can "soften" the
extension or retraction. And if you have the patience you can also alter the
order in which the gear hits the wells. I know of one CJ in which all three
points hit the wells at exactly the same moment. This was accomplished by
spending hours on jacks, fiddling with the hole size in the restrictors.
Yes, fellow CJ'ers, I know that there are several schools of thought about
the manner in which a "stock" CJ retracts and why the Chinese did it the way
they did. I offer the above not as a recommendation, but only as
information as to what the effect of omitting or altering the restrictor
size can have on the way your gear operates.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Uplock mounting plate broken
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Doug;
> Excellent point.........
>
> "Does the 52 use the air line restrictors like the CJ? These
> restrictors keep the gear from slamming up or down by metering the
> amount of air acting
> on the actuator".
>
> Doug, as it was, the only thing different about gear retraction this
> particular morning was that I had the GIB do the gear
> retraction......something I don't normally do. He stopped for a second
> in the neutral position before continuing to the retracted position. I
> think that this allowed air pressure to build in the retraction side of
> the line so that when he finally reached the retracted position, full
> air pressure had built up and was thus acting on the retract
> cylinders.....almost as though it were an emergency retraction.....BANG!
> I normally operate the retraction lever from full up to full down (or
> vic-a-versa) without any lag or stopping in the neutral position with a
> usual, resultant smooth retraction or extension. Maybe restrictors would
> be an option in this case????? The problem doesn't happen if you
> actuate the gear levers properly by not stopping in neutral position
> before going to retracted to extended position.
>
> Frank
> N9110M
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Uplock mounting plate broken |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
I'd like to state, for the record, that I have no opinion on this matter.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Uplock mounting plate broken
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Frank,
> Again, let me say I know little about 52's, but in CJ's the restrictors
are
> sometimes lost during the replacement or maintenance of the gear
components,
> as they are very tiny. Many mechanic / drivers simply do not know that
the
> reason that their gear is slamming up or down is because they are missing
> these little parts. Most think (incorrectly)that the gear noise is a
> function of how many atms. of pressure they have at the time of retraction
> or extension. "my gear only hits hard when I have a full 50 atms." Or
they
> feel that a bit of slamming is simply the nature of the beast.
>
> I have seen restrictors in a variety of places, at the gear (and flap)
valve
> (both up and down ports), and at the gear (and flap) actuators. The
> restrictors come blank, that is no hole is drilled in them. By varying
the
> hole size you can accomplish two things, first you can "soften" the
> extension or retraction. And if you have the patience you can also alter
the
> order in which the gear hits the wells. I know of one CJ in which all
three
> points hit the wells at exactly the same moment. This was accomplished
by
> spending hours on jacks, fiddling with the hole size in the restrictors.
> Yes, fellow CJ'ers, I know that there are several schools of thought about
> the manner in which a "stock" CJ retracts and why the Chinese did it the
way
> they did. I offer the above not as a recommendation, but only as
> information as to what the effect of omitting or altering the restrictor
> size can have on the way your gear operates.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Uplock mounting plate broken
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Doug;
> > Excellent point.........
> >
> > "Does the 52 use the air line restrictors like the CJ? These
> > restrictors keep the gear from slamming up or down by metering the
> > amount of air acting
> > on the actuator".
> >
> > Doug, as it was, the only thing different about gear retraction this
> > particular morning was that I had the GIB do the gear
> > retraction......something I don't normally do. He stopped for a second
> > in the neutral position before continuing to the retracted position. I
> > think that this allowed air pressure to build in the retraction side of
> > the line so that when he finally reached the retracted position, full
> > air pressure had built up and was thus acting on the retract
> > cylinders.....almost as though it were an emergency retraction.....BANG!
> > I normally operate the retraction lever from full up to full down (or
> > vic-a-versa) without any lag or stopping in the neutral position with a
> > usual, resultant smooth retraction or extension. Maybe restrictors would
> > be an option in this case????? The problem doesn't happen if you
> > actuate the gear levers properly by not stopping in neutral position
> > before going to retracted to extended position.
> >
> > Frank
> > N9110M
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
Ron- if I come over from Dallas, can you geiger my cockpit?
Dave Laird
N63536 "Betty"
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Uplock mounting plate broken |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Doug,
I've heard of the gear slamming up or down if you leave the lever in the
neutral position before selecting the gear position. Is this only true of
systems without the restrictors????
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Uplock mounting plate broken
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Frank,
> Again, let me say I know little about 52's, but in CJ's the restrictors
are
> sometimes lost during the replacement or maintenance of the gear
components,
> as they are very tiny. Many mechanic / drivers simply do not know that
the
> reason that their gear is slamming up or down is because they are missing
> these little parts. Most think (incorrectly)that the gear noise is a
> function of how many atms. of pressure they have at the time of retraction
> or extension. "my gear only hits hard when I have a full 50 atms." Or
they
> feel that a bit of slamming is simply the nature of the beast.
>
> I have seen restrictors in a variety of places, at the gear (and flap)
valve
> (both up and down ports), and at the gear (and flap) actuators. The
> restrictors come blank, that is no hole is drilled in them. By varying
the
> hole size you can accomplish two things, first you can "soften" the
> extension or retraction. And if you have the patience you can also alter
the
> order in which the gear hits the wells. I know of one CJ in which all
three
> points hit the wells at exactly the same moment. This was accomplished
by
> spending hours on jacks, fiddling with the hole size in the restrictors.
> Yes, fellow CJ'ers, I know that there are several schools of thought about
> the manner in which a "stock" CJ retracts and why the Chinese did it the
way
> they did. I offer the above not as a recommendation, but only as
> information as to what the effect of omitting or altering the restrictor
> size can have on the way your gear operates.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Uplock mounting plate broken
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Doug;
> > Excellent point.........
> >
> > "Does the 52 use the air line restrictors like the CJ? These
> > restrictors keep the gear from slamming up or down by metering the
> > amount of air acting
> > on the actuator".
> >
> > Doug, as it was, the only thing different about gear retraction this
> > particular morning was that I had the GIB do the gear
> > retraction......something I don't normally do. He stopped for a second
> > in the neutral position before continuing to the retracted position. I
> > think that this allowed air pressure to build in the retraction side of
> > the line so that when he finally reached the retracted position, full
> > air pressure had built up and was thus acting on the retract
> > cylinders.....almost as though it were an emergency retraction.....BANG!
> > I normally operate the retraction lever from full up to full down (or
> > vic-a-versa) without any lag or stopping in the neutral position with a
> > usual, resultant smooth retraction or extension. Maybe restrictors would
> > be an option in this case????? The problem doesn't happen if you
> > actuate the gear levers properly by not stopping in neutral position
> > before going to retracted to extended position.
> >
> > Frank
> > N9110M
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | More Summer Mag Fun |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Soooo... I was doing a run-up on N36CJ and when I put the front Mag switch
to "1" I got one "pop and drop" but, playing with it, that seemed to be a
one-time event. I took off, flew for about an hour, and the airplane was
making plenty of smash and sounding quite right... until (you knew there
was going to be an "until", right?) -- on the base leg as I was getting
home I had a momentary loss of power... just a brief pop and drop (note:
the mag. switch was on 1+2) but enough to *really* get my attention.
I took it out at lunch today and ran it up and.. sure enough... after
running it up for a good while I could finally put it on "1" and every 30
seconds or so it would pop and drop from about 1830 rpm to about 1600 rpm
and then hop right back up.
All this would be less interesting excepting that I'm near Boston, MA
right now (working for about two weeks here) but "home" is Austin, TX.
The mechanics here are Beech Dealer Guys and after asking what the heck it
is, they want to know if it was built in the 40s. They seem to have some
vague understanding that radial engines leak more oil, but that's where
their round-engine experience seems to trail off. Sigh.
I was smart enough to pack my tool box. But not smart enough to pack the
maintenance manual. :-) The guy running the hangar says that I can have
one of his guys "assist" me, but they're, "not signin' nuthin'". Uh, OK.
Soooo... without the manual, I'm askin' here:
1. When I have the mag switch on "1", which magneto (port/starbord) is
grounded?
2. What are the points supposed to be gapped at?
If anybody's interested, the betting pool options are: bad mag switch, bad
wiring, gunk/water in points, mis-gapped points, bad coil.
One additional bit of information... I recently changed out all the spark
plugs and my mag drops are about 30 rpm, both on 1 and 2. Seems a bit
high to me.
Perplexed in Boston,
Jon
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: More Summer Mag Fun |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I beleive 1 is the left mag if viewed from the cockpit. Its easy to figure
out though, just pop off the P-Lead from the mag and check it against ground
with a meter as you move the switch. 0 ohms is what you will see when that
mag is selected on the switch.
Dont have the manual off hand, but check the gap from the good mag, for your
point gap setting.
Sounds kinda weird that it pops every 30 seconds. A bad Mag should be more
consistant than that. Sounds like a plug or a fuel issue to me, except for
the fact that it only pops when on that one mag. Have you had the mag covers
and the rotor cap off? Check to see if there is oil pooled up near the
points. I had that problem once, I beleive it caused my point spring to
break. Also check your primer and make sure it is shut. The engine runs
strangely at low RPM when the primer isnt shut properly, due to an extra
rich mixture going to the cylinders.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Subject: Yak-List: More Summer Mag Fun
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> Soooo... I was doing a run-up on N36CJ and when I put the front Mag switch
> to "1" I got one "pop and drop" but, playing with it, that seemed to be a
> one-time event. I took off, flew for about an hour, and the airplane was
> making plenty of smash and sounding quite right... until (you knew there
> was going to be an "until", right?) -- on the base leg as I was getting
> home I had a momentary loss of power... just a brief pop and drop (note:
> the mag. switch was on 1+2) but enough to *really* get my attention.
>
> I took it out at lunch today and ran it up and.. sure enough... after
> running it up for a good while I could finally put it on "1" and every 30
> seconds or so it would pop and drop from about 1830 rpm to about 1600 rpm
> and then hop right back up.
>
> All this would be less interesting excepting that I'm near Boston, MA
> right now (working for about two weeks here) but "home" is Austin, TX.
> The mechanics here are Beech Dealer Guys and after asking what the heck it
> is, they want to know if it was built in the 40s. They seem to have some
> vague understanding that radial engines leak more oil, but that's where
> their round-engine experience seems to trail off. Sigh.
>
> I was smart enough to pack my tool box. But not smart enough to pack the
> maintenance manual. :-) The guy running the hangar says that I can have
> one of his guys "assist" me, but they're, "not signin' nuthin'". Uh, OK.
>
> Soooo... without the manual, I'm askin' here:
>
> 1. When I have the mag switch on "1", which magneto (port/starbord) is
> grounded?
>
> 2. What are the points supposed to be gapped at?
>
> If anybody's interested, the betting pool options are: bad mag switch, bad
> wiring, gunk/water in points, mis-gapped points, bad coil.
>
> One additional bit of information... I recently changed out all the spark
> plugs and my mag drops are about 30 rpm, both on 1 and 2. Seems a bit
> high to me.
>
> Perplexed in Boston,
> Jon
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: More Summer Mag Fun |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Try lubricating/spraying either a silicon spray, WD40 or LPS #2 into the
plug wiring harness. Spray the braided shield too because the lubricant
will wick through the porous braid. Remove the large nut after the elbow
next to the plug and slide the cover back. Insert the lubricant tube down
in between the wire and the rubber shield and spray away. You'll need to do
the same thing at the other end of the harness at the ring in the back.
It's a pain, but lubricating the wiring harness eliminates many, many
intermittent misfires.
I would also check the cap inside the distributor for telltale signs of
cracks. Most likely though, one or two of your plug wires going to the
front plugs is arching. Moisture inside the braided shield can cause that.
So spray away.
Good luck.
Dennis Savarese
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Subject: Yak-List: More Summer Mag Fun
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> Soooo... I was doing a run-up on N36CJ and when I put the front Mag switch
> to "1" I got one "pop and drop" but, playing with it, that seemed to be a
> one-time event. I took off, flew for about an hour, and the airplane was
> making plenty of smash and sounding quite right... until (you knew there
> was going to be an "until", right?) -- on the base leg as I was getting
> home I had a momentary loss of power... just a brief pop and drop (note:
> the mag. switch was on 1+2) but enough to *really* get my attention.
>
> I took it out at lunch today and ran it up and.. sure enough... after
> running it up for a good while I could finally put it on "1" and every 30
> seconds or so it would pop and drop from about 1830 rpm to about 1600 rpm
> and then hop right back up.
>
> All this would be less interesting excepting that I'm near Boston, MA
> right now (working for about two weeks here) but "home" is Austin, TX.
> The mechanics here are Beech Dealer Guys and after asking what the heck it
> is, they want to know if it was built in the 40s. They seem to have some
> vague understanding that radial engines leak more oil, but that's where
> their round-engine experience seems to trail off. Sigh.
>
> I was smart enough to pack my tool box. But not smart enough to pack the
> maintenance manual. :-) The guy running the hangar says that I can have
> one of his guys "assist" me, but they're, "not signin' nuthin'". Uh, OK.
>
> Soooo... without the manual, I'm askin' here:
>
> 1. When I have the mag switch on "1", which magneto (port/starbord) is
> grounded?
>
> 2. What are the points supposed to be gapped at?
>
> If anybody's interested, the betting pool options are: bad mag switch, bad
> wiring, gunk/water in points, mis-gapped points, bad coil.
>
> One additional bit of information... I recently changed out all the spark
> plugs and my mag drops are about 30 rpm, both on 1 and 2. Seems a bit
> high to me.
>
> Perplexed in Boston,
> Jon
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: More Summer Mag Fun |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jon Boede wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> Soooo... I was doing a run-up on N36CJ and when I put the front Mag switch
> to "1" I got one "pop and drop" but, playing with it, that seemed to be a
> one-time event.
Check the switch and p-lead wiring to the switch. Also remember that the front
mag switch is disabled by the toggle switch in the rear seat. The rear seat
mag switch is always active so you need to check it too.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: More Summer Mag Fun |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
When I pulled the p-lead for the port magneto (which is the one NOT
grounded when the switch is on "1") it fell apart in my hands. It was
filled with some kind of semi-burned black gunk in the back which, in a
former life, might have been oil.
I didn't get a chance to run it up since they won't be able to dig me out
of the maintenance hangar until tomorrow around lunch time.
Everything else seemed pretty normal... port magneto was gapped at about
..012 and the starbord one at about .018 or so.
But this brings up the question as whether this was the problem since, as
was pointed out to me, the engine should run just fine without a
connection to the p-lead. Unless, of course, said gunk conducted
electricity sufficiently well enough to be randomly grounding the port
magneto.
Oh, how I love a mystery. :-)
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Jon Boede wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>
>> Soooo... I was doing a run-up on N36CJ and when I put the front Mag
>> switch to "1" I got one "pop and drop" but, playing with it, that
>> seemed to be a one-time event.
>
> Check the switch and p-lead wiring to the switch. Also remember that
> the front mag switch is disabled by the toggle switch in the rear seat.
> The rear seat mag switch is always active so you need to check it too.
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: More Summer Mag Fun |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Desmor944@aol.com
Jon
#1 magneto is the left mag and fires the front plugs.
#2 magneto is the right mag and fires the rear plugs.
Magneto point gap should be 0.030 inches.
A mag drop of 30 RPM sounds about right; the limit is 60 RPM.
Where in the Boston area are you ? (sounds like BED)
I have the manuals and a well equipped shop nearby if you need a place to
twist a wrench. There are more than a few folks at 5B6 who understand round
engines.
Rich Desmond
N19CJ
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: More Summer Mag Fun |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Desmor944@aol.com
Jon
Correction on the magneto breaker point gap. Should be 0.010 to 0.014
inches.
Rich Desmond
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