Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:38 AM - Re: LOAs and Type Ratings (Ron)
2. 09:22 AM - Re: Yak 50 Air Bottle Failure (pop off valve) (Ron)
3. 05:54 PM - Many Thanks! (Tim Gagnon)
4. 07:45 PM - Excerpt of air bottle testing post............................ (Frank Haertlein)
5. 09:58 PM - Re: Many Thanks! (Ernie)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: LOAs and Type Ratings |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
That was pretty much my point, perhaps poorly stated or misinterpreted:
ETRs will someday involved an authorized instructor and the experimental
equivalent of a DE, but for now the old system is still in place and these
LOAs can br traded in for the ETR. It will definately get more expensive
and difficult in the future.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: LOAs and Type Ratings
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> Keep in mind that you don't really need to go to an LOOA to get your
> LOA... you can request that the FAA come out to the airport and ... well,
> they're supposed to do more, but they wind up watching you do a couple of
> touch-and-gos and then they write you an LOA and say, "Don't hurt
> yourself". In the end it's always the FSDO that writes the LOA... an LOOA
> just recommends you.
>
> Also keep in mind that you can get a temporary LOA just for the asking, in
> order to bone up for the demonstration in the previous paragraph.
>
> If you talk fast enough and you have 100 hours in the aircraft it also
> seems possible to get them to hand you an LOOA. Although I've heard Dick
> Hanusa actively lament that LOOAs were, "given out like candy."
>
> Over the next year or so is an excellent time to go beg or swap time with
> anybody with an LOA-needin' aircraft. Rack up as many LOAs and LOOAs as
> you can manage and then swap 'em for ETRs. There are a lot of people out
> there doing this right now before the ETR thing kicks in completely and
> LOAs go away... it's like Poke-e-mon -- collect 'em all. :-)
>
> Jon
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
> >
> > Not exactly.......If you wish to fly an airplane which requires an LOA
> > then you must go through the LOA checkride process through an approved
> > LOOA holder. The FAA is converting LOA's to ETR's at certain events only
> > (S&F, OSH and Reno) you must do it in person you cannot mail in your
> > current LOA. There are only 2 people in the country knowledgeable about
> > the process Disk Hanusa and I forget the other guys name. You cannot
> > just ask for an ETR instead of an LOA.
> >
> > Ernie
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ron" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: LOAs and Type Ratings
> >
> >
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
> >>
> >> ETR (experimental type rating) is easy to say and remember, but
> >> apparently they decided not to go with that terminology. Your license
> >> (which is properly called a pilot certificate) will say "authorized
> >> experimental aircraft" and then letters for the manufacturer and model
> >> number.
> >>
> >> Warbirds magazine has periodic updates on the program. So far there
> >> is no way to get one (that I know of) except to convert an LOA. The
> >> program for certifying instructors and check pilots isn't in place
> >> yet. Therefore, if you get trained now and get an LOA you can just
> >> ask for the ETR instead of paying for an expensive checkride. Why
> >> yes, now is a good time to get trained in all the jets and high power
> >> pistons you plan to fly in the forseeable future.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Roy O. Wright" <roy@wright.org>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: LOAs and Type Ratings
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roy O. Wright" <roy@wright.org>
> >> >
> >> > Where can I find info on the new ETRs?
> >> >
> >> > TIA,
> >> > Roy
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ',,'',,'',,',,'
> >> > Roy Wright 512.378.1234 mailto:royw@cisco.com
> >> Cisco Systems import com.cisco.std-disclaimer
> >> "Experience is the thing you get the moment after you needed to have
> > it."
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Yak 50 Air Bottle Failure (pop off valve) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
5/3 is the "standard" hydrostatic test criteria, although there is more to
it than just not exploding. Bottles have an allowable epansion range that
depends on the material, size, working pressure, etc. Like most testing
rquired by the feds, this must me done by a certified shop to be legal.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 50 Air Bottle Failure (pop off valve)
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere"
<BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
>
> I can't site chapter and verse but in dealing with SCBA (firefighter air
> bottles), SCUBA, and our medical oxygen bottles they are tested to 5/3
> working pressure. That is Working Pressure say 3000psi multiply by 5
15,000 divide by 3= 5000 psi test pressure for a bottle with 3000 psi
> working pressure. There was/is a "secret" mark used on those bottles
> that stretch the least, I guess, and it is legal for us (firefighters)
> to fill those bottles to 10% over working pressure, 3,300 psi in my
> example,FYI. All our steel and Aluminum bottles are tested every 5
> years and the new composite bottles that we use get tested each 3 years
>
> Respectfully, Rick
> PS; Too much stretch or internal corrosion are the 2 causes I know of
> for a bottle's failure to pass.
>
> >>> kjpilling@btclick.com 8/29/2003 4:28:19 AM >>>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling"
> <kjpilling@btclick.com>
>
> The pop off , was and is still is 'popping off' at 45 Bar.
> The failure was entirely due to rust degradation of the tank
> internally
> Externally the tank was in A1 condition but internally (now very
> easily
> inspected!) it was poor.
> I think the manufacturer calls for 5 yearly testing and that would have
> been
> next year,. that's taking the start date for the interval as the
> Russian
> overhaul date of 1999.
> Whilst I have no complaints with any other aspect of the aircrafts
> condition
> upon delivery, this tank obviously slipped through the net and I
> suspect
> others will have too.
>
> I am not absolutely sure but I believe the test standard is two and a
> half
> times the normal 50 bar operating pressure.
> But check that out yourself before any testing.
>
> kp
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 50 Air Bottle Failure (pop off valve)
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
> >
> >
> > Kevin,
> > Do you know if the pop off valve failed ? If that happened then the
> bottle
> > could have over pressured, it was sat on the ground long enough for
> some
> > serious pressure to build up. If you can could you have it tested
> and
> report
> > to the group ?
> >
> > Gus
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:53:23 -0400
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
> As the new owner of a Yak-50 (N250BW, Bill Walkers), there are some people I
want to publicly thank! Not only is this my first Yak, it is my first airplane!!
Without the valuable advice, assistance, direction, support, and friendship
of these and many other people, this airplane would have been possible. I have
found very quickly that the Yak community is about the best bunch of folks I
have come across in 17 years of flying. I have had an unimaginable amount of
help and guidance, some I admittedly I did not follow...I will make mistakes!
So I look forward to this extraordinary group of people and the fun that this
airplane promises!
>
> So without further a due:
>
> My girlfriend Donna: She rocks! It took some talking her into a single seat airplane
but she understands! The Yak-52 will come next.20
>
> John "Hitman" Hilterman: Hitman has been there since the very beginning of this
search and has provided invaluable help and will serve as my mentor when I
jump into the world of ACM! Cannot wait for that! I can at least provide some
good tracking practice. Now all I need is a cool call sign...and not FNG! John...simply...thanks!
>
> Keith "Frosty" Frost: Keith was the first person I talked to about these beast
and he basically talked me into this airplane. I was considering others but
the deal was sealed after a few emails! Another guy who I can provide tracking
practice too! I still have every email he has ever sent and refer to them often.
I still owe him a phone call....
>
> Dean Courtney: The brains of the two of us! A good friend and partner in the
airplane. This dude knows more about airplanes than I thought existed. Everytime
we talk, I feel like a bigger dumbass! He knows his way around airplanes and
people. He is one of the few natural pilots I know. Thanks man...now give me
back my airplane!
>
> Mark Bitterlich: His technical help has helped me make some important choices
and helped avoid mistakes. He is part of the "open cowl club" and has been honest
about the ins and outs of these things.
>
> Dennis Savarese: If anyone knows Yaks, this guy does and has proven that fact
on countless occasions on this forum and in phone/email conversations. When I
finish spending my life's savings in this airplane, I will come see him for a
replacement! Thanks Dennis....really!!
>
> George Coy: For giving 250BW a peek!
>
> Steve Beaver: For the brief but yet informative conversation about the history
of this airplane! Too bad he has hung up his spurs when it comes to the Yak.
A loss!
>
> The folks in Europe and especially the UK: Mark Jeffries and Richard Goode....from
across the pond. Thanks guys!!
>
> Jill (at Carl Hayes): Damn does she know some stuff! Thanks Jill!
>
> To every one on this forum! I have gotten volumes of good info and I will support
this list!!20
>
> If I have forgotten anyone...I apologize. I have been in the hell hole cleaning!
>
> See ya all at All Red Star!
>
> Regards,
>
> Timothy Gagnon
Message 4
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| Subject: | Excerpt of air bottle testing post............................ |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Here is an excerpt from a post I made about pressure testing your air
bottles.................
Found an outfit that will proof test your main and emergency air
bottles. They hydrostatically tested mine to 1050 PSI while providing
measurements of elastic and permanent distortion.
The main 12" sphere showed an elastic expansion of 46.5 and a perm of
0.7 for a total of 46.5.
The emergency sphere showed an elastic expansion of 11.7 with a perm of
0.1 for a total of 0.8.
Don't ask me what those numbers mean because I don't know. Test time was
31 minutes with a passing grade for both. Since the air bottles don't
meet any recognized US DOT specifications they weren't able to certify
the bottles per U.S.D.O.T. OFR Title 40 SECTION 173.34 and GSA B339-06
Section 24. They did state on the paperwork that these were foreign
units for experimental use. If nothing else the tests will give you
peace of mind that the bottles will reliably hold 750 PSI for some time
period.
If your inclined to get your tanks tested here's an outfit that will do
it.......
TYM's INC.
414 West Arbor Vitae St.
Inglewood, CA 90301
Phone 213-678-3330 or 310-673-3330
They have all the fittings needed to do foreign tanks. They have done
YAKS and MIG tanks for other customers. They're located near LAX.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Many Thanks! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
This is a great list isn't it??
Its very nice that you acknowledge all the good folks on this list who have
helped you with your new airplane. I'm can assure you that there's a lot
more folks out there that you havent met yet, that are in the wings to help
you out when you need them, just as I found out not very long ago myself as
a new Red Star pilot. (except for a certain person out there who insist I'm
learning how to fly via the internet).
But like any internet forum, you need to take what makes sence, and leave
what doesnt. There are many opinions out here and its up to you to make the
final decision as to whats right and more importantly SAFE. I find this
forum an invaluable source of information but NEVER the ONLY source. You can
get just as easily bad if not nessisarily mal-intentioned information here,
this is just another place to confirm advice from knowledgeable people whom
you can TRUST.
I have found in my experience from this list in the past year that this list
is an indispensable source of information from some of the most brightest
people in the biz, some you have mentioned and some you havent. There are
lurkers out there that I personally know of that are some of the best people
you can want to know and will help you, when in a bind but they ususally
stay in the background and dont contribute to the clutter like myself. Then
you have your rocket scientists (dont worry Brian/Dennis I wont mention your
names) who will tell you in nauseating detail the tensil strength of your
snot valve screw valve , and then other sales type people who will tell you
that if you dont buy a plane from them you're risking your life....Your call
(beware of the sales type). Join YPA/RPA or whatever we become, be active,
come to the flyin's and learn about your airplane from the pro's, its fun
and its worth it, from a money and a safety standpoint.
For those of you who know me, I just had inner ear surgery last week and I'm
on a regiment of SAKI and pain killers right now but hope to be 100% by next
week. Hope to see you guys at Reno if the Dr's give me the green light to
fly.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Many Thanks!
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
>
> > As the new owner of a Yak-50 (N250BW, Bill Walkers), there are some
people I want to publicly thank! Not only is this my first Yak, it is my
first airplane!! Without the valuable advice, assistance, direction,
support, and friendship of these and many other people, this airplane would
have been possible. I have found very quickly that the Yak community is
about the best bunch of folks I have come across in 17 years of flying. I
have had an unimaginable amount of help and guidance, some I admittedly I
did not follow...I will make mistakes! So I look forward to this
extraordinary group of people and the fun that this airplane promises!
> >
> > So without further a due:
> >
> > My girlfriend Donna: She rocks! It took some talking her into a single
seat airplane but she understands! The Yak-52 will come next.20
> >
> > John "Hitman" Hilterman: Hitman has been there since the very beginning
of this search and has provided invaluable help and will serve as my mentor
when I jump into the world of ACM! Cannot wait for that! I can at least
provide some good tracking practice. Now all I need is a cool call
sign...and not FNG! John...simply...thanks!
> >
> > Keith "Frosty" Frost: Keith was the first person I talked to about these
beast and he basically talked me into this airplane. I was considering
others but the deal was sealed after a few emails! Another guy who I can
provide tracking practice too! I still have every email he has ever sent and
refer to them often. I still owe him a phone call....
> >
> > Dean Courtney: The brains of the two of us! A good friend and partner in
the airplane. This dude knows more about airplanes than I thought existed.
Everytime we talk, I feel like a bigger dumbass! He knows his way around
airplanes and people. He is one of the few natural pilots I know. Thanks
man...now give me back my airplane!
> >
> > Mark Bitterlich: His technical help has helped me make some important
choices and helped avoid mistakes. He is part of the "open cowl club" and
has been honest about the ins and outs of these things.
> >
> > Dennis Savarese: If anyone knows Yaks, this guy does and has proven that
fact on countless occasions on this forum and in phone/email conversations.
When I finish spending my life's savings in this airplane, I will come see
him for a replacement! Thanks Dennis....really!!
> >
> > George Coy: For giving 250BW a peek!
> >
> > Steve Beaver: For the brief but yet informative conversation about the
history of this airplane! Too bad he has hung up his spurs when it comes to
the Yak. A loss!
> >
> > The folks in Europe and especially the UK: Mark Jeffries and Richard
Goode....from across the pond. Thanks guys!!
> >
> > Jill (at Carl Hayes): Damn does she know some stuff! Thanks Jill!
> >
> > To every one on this forum! I have gotten volumes of good info and I
will support this list!!20
> >
> > If I have forgotten anyone...I apologize. I have been in the hell hole
cleaning!
> >
> > See ya all at All Red Star!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Timothy Gagnon
>
>
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