Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:47 AM - fuel vapor in cockpit while inverted/negative G (BUTLER, FRANCIS)
2. 08:51 AM - Re: fuel vapor in cockpit while inverted/negative G (Genzlinger, Reade)
3. 10:33 AM - Air leak - Don't have much more hair to pull out. (Aubrey Price)
4. 10:41 AM - Re: fuel vapor in cockpit while inverted/negative G (Walt Fricke)
5. 12:08 PM - fuel vapor (jay reiter)
6. 12:47 PM - hoses (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
7. 01:01 PM - Re: Air leak - Don't have much more hair to pull out. (cjpilot710@aol.com)
8. 04:43 PM - Re: Air leak - Don't have much more hair to pull out. (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 06:05 PM - Color Schemes (michael.beach@ps.ge.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | fuel vapor in cockpit while inverted/negative G |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "BUTLER, FRANCIS" <FRANCIS_BUTLER@butler-machinery.com>
I have had three Yaks, (1) 52 and (2)50's, that after sustained negative G, I can
smell fuel vapor in the cockpit. Is this common on all 52 and 50's? I am
doing more negative stuff with my 50 now and would like to find a solution.
Francis Butler
Butler Machinery Co.
(701) 298-1758 direct
(701) 476-3208 fax
francis_butler@butler-machinery.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | fuel vapor in cockpit while inverted/negative G |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" <ReadeG@Cairnwood.com>
Francis:
I've had the same experience when doing sustained inverted or hard negative
in my 52. I asked Gena Elfimov about it and his response was that it is not
unusual. I don't know what causes it and it doesn't seem to be much of an
issue with the Russian instructors I've flown with.
Reade Genzlinger
Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation
215.914.0370
215.790.6212 fax
readeg@cairnwood.com
-----Original Message-----
From: BUTLER, FRANCIS [mailto:FRANCIS_BUTLER@butler-machinery.com]
Subject: Yak-List: fuel vapor in cockpit while inverted/negative G
{SPAM?} Header
--> Yak-List message posted by: "BUTLER, FRANCIS"
<FRANCIS_BUTLER@butler-machinery.com>
I have had three Yaks, (1) 52 and (2)50's, that after sustained negative G,
I can smell fuel vapor in the cockpit. Is this common on all 52 and 50's?
I am doing more negative stuff with my 50 now and would like to find a
solution.
Francis Butler
Butler Machinery Co.
(701) 298-1758 direct
(701) 476-3208 fax
francis_butler@butler-machinery.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Air leak - Don't have much more hair to pull out. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Aubrey Price <aprice@vartec.net>
Last week my YAK52 started leaking down at night ( main system only ). I
have checked the pop off and put soap on every connection I can find. I have
disconnected the down stream side of the main air valve and checked to see
if it was leaking. I have checked at the fill port and it isn't leaking. I
have removed the airtank, inspected and soap tested it and the fittings.I
have had several people that have great hearing check and have found
nothing. The leak is getting worse every day. It will leak from 50ATM to 0
in less than 24 hours. I think there is a check valve somewhere that I am
missing.I tested the check valve near the filler and it's not leaking. This
almost has to be a leak inside the system or I could hear the leak. The
drawings I have of the system are bad quality and hard to read.Yesterday I
pressurized the system with dry Freon and used an electronic devise to sniff
for leaks. I found one small leak that wouldn't change the system pressure
1ATM in a week. Since the Freon detector never found anything inside the
aircraft, I have to assume the leak is between systems. I cycled the flaps
and the detector went wild, so I know it was working.I am open for all
suggustions.
Aubrey Price
N288Y
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: fuel vapor in cockpit while inverted/negative G |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Fricke <walterfricke@yahoo.com>
--0-2117213862-1065462067=:51535
From the guy who stars his stories with "There I was, at ten thousand feet, upside
down and out of gas....." I'm wondering where the gas fumes are coming from
as well.
I did find the seal on top of my aux tank (I think the over flow or transfer pump
line) had dried out and needed repacing.) Of course, mine leaked on the ground....not
as a result of TIPPING UPSIDE DOWN!!!
"BUTLER, FRANCIS" <FRANCIS_BUTLER@butler-machinery.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "BUTLER, FRANCIS"
I have had three Yaks, (1) 52 and (2)50's, that after sustained negative G, I can
smell fuel vapor in the cockpit. Is this common on all 52 and 50's? I am doing
more negative stuff with my 50 now and would like to find a solution.
Francis Butler
Butler Machinery Co.
(701) 298-1758 direct
(701) 476-3208 fax
francis_butler@butler-machinery.com
---------------------------------
--0-2117213862-1065462067=:51535
<DIV>From the guy who stars his stories with "There I was, at ten thousand feet,
upside down and out of gas....." I'm wondering where the gas fumes
are coming from as well.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I did find the seal on top of my aux tank (I think the over flow or transfer
pump line) had dried out and needed repacing.) Of course, mine leaked
on the ground....not as a result of TIPPING UPSIDE DOWN!!!<BR><BR><B><I>"BUTLER,
FRANCIS" <FRANCIS_BUTLER@butler-machinery.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
List
--0-2117213862-1065462067=:51535--
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
Just finished an annual on a CJ the banjo fitting at the top of the
header tank was leaking. The leak was staining the tank but I guess it
was leaking when the fuel level reached the top of the vent system. This
fitting would leak if you went inverted. You have to remove the tank to
get at the fitting.
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content"MSHTML 6.00.2733.1800" nameGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT faceArial size2>Just finished an annual on a CJ the
banjo fitting
at the top of the header tank was leaking. The leak was staining
the tank
but I guess it was leaking when the fuel level reached the top of
the vent
system. This fitting would leak if you went inverted. You have to remove
the
tank to get at the fitting.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
Just send us you fittings and we will make for you. 55$ per pipe.
Pressure tested and released.
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere"
<BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Is it Carl Hayes that has the hose kits for M14P? Anyone else if he
doesn't? I need to replace mine on SU-29. 10 years is a good service
life, I guess. BTW. I did the motor mounts and now it's my secret how
to do them. Just kidding.... Respectfully, Ricky B
PS, prices for hoses, any bright and shiny ones?
-------
Best regards
Mark Jefferies
Managing director YAK UK Ltd
+ Little Gransden Airfield, Sandy, Beds SG19 3BP, England.
* mark@yakuk.com
: www.yakuk.com
( +44 (0)1767 651156 Office
( +44 (0)1767 651157 Fax
( +44 (0)7785 538 317 Mobile
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1264" nameGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor#ffffff>
<DIV><EM><FONT color#808080 size2>Just send us you fittings and we
will make
for you. 55$ per pipe. Pressure tested and released.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT color#808080 size2></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <<A
href"mailto:BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us">BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us</=
A><FONT
color#000000>><BR><BR>Is it Carl Hayes that has the hose kits for
M14P? Anyone else if he<BR>doesn't? I need to replace mine
on
SU-29. 10 years is a good service<BR>life, I guess.
BTW. I did
the motor mounts and now it's my secret how<BR>to do them. Just
kidding.... Respectfully, Ricky B <BR><BR> PS, prices for
hoses, any
bright and shiny ones?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV idMarquee2 style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; WIDTH: 415px; HEIGHT:
150px" <MARQUEE
behavior"slide" direction"down" loop"1" scrollAmount"1"
scrollDelay"25"
trueSpeed border"0">
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</MARQUEE>
<MARQUEE idMarquee1 style"WIDTH: 306px; HEIGHT: 58px" trueSpeed
scrollAmount1
scrollDelay30 directiondown behaviorslide loop1
border"0">
<DIV><FONT faceTahoma color#000080 size4>Best
regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT faceTahoma color#000080 size5>Mark
Jefferies</FONT></DIV></MARQUEE>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color#000080>Managing director YAK UK
Ltd</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>
<MARQUEE idMarquee2 style"WIDTH: 424px; HEIGHT: 19px" trueSpeed
scrollAmount1
scrollDelay6 behaviorslide loop1 border"0"><FONT
faceWingdings><FONT
color#000099 size2>+ </FONT><STRONG><FONT faceTahoma
color#000080>Little
Gransden Airfield, Sandy, Beds SG19 3BP,
England.</FONT></STRONG></FONT></MARQUEE></DIV>
<DIV>
<MARQUEE idMarquee2 style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; WIDTH: 230px; HEIGHT:
15px"
trueSpeed scrollAmount1 scrollDelay4 behaviorslide loop1
border"0"><FONT
faceWingdings><FONT size2>*</FONT><FONT face"Courier
New"></FONT>
</FONT><FONT faceTahoma color#333333><STRONG><A
href"mailto:mark@yakuk.com">mark@yakuk.com</A></STRONG></FONT></MARQUE=
E></DIV>
<DIV>
<MARQUEE idMarquee2 style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; WIDTH: 157px; HEIGHT:
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border"0"><FONT
faceWingdings><FONT size2>:</FONT><FONT face"Courier
New"></FONT>
</FONT><FONT faceTahoma color#333333><STRONG><A
href"http://www.yakuk.com">www.yakuk.com</A></STRONG></FONT></MARQUEE>=
</DIV>
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facetahoma
color#333333 size1>+44 (0)1767 651156 Office<FONT faceArial
size2>
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<MARQUEE idMarquee2 style"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; WIDTH: 220px; HEIGHT:
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size2>
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<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dirltr style"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV classOutlookMessageHeader langen-us dirltr
alignleft> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></B></FONT>
<DIV></DIV>
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ODY></HTML>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Air leak - Don't have much more hair to pull out. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 10/6/2003 1:34:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
aprice@vartec.net writes:
> >
>
> Last week my YAK52 started leaking down at night ( main system only ). I
> have checked the pop off and put soap on every connection I can find. I have
> disconnected the down stream side of the main air valve and checked to see
> if it was leaking. I have checked at the fill port and it isn't leaking. I
> have removed the airtank, inspected and soap tested it and the fittings.I
> have had several people that have great hearing check and have found
> nothing. The leak is getting worse every day. It will leak from 50ATM to 0
> in less than 24 hours. I think there is a check valve somewhere that I am
> missing.I tested the check valve near the filler and it's not leaking. This
> almost has to be a leak inside the system or I could hear the leak. The
> drawings I have of the system are bad quality and hard to read.Yesterday I
> pressurized the system with dry Freon and used an electronic devise to sniff
> for leaks. I found one small leak that wouldn't change the system pressure
> 1ATM in a week. Since the Freon detector never found anything inside the
> aircraft, I have to assume the leak is between systems. I cycled the flaps
> and the detector went wild, so I know it was working.I am open for all
> suggustions.
>
>
Did you check the main air valve it self? I had this problem. It turned out
that the valve seat is aluminum while the valve itself is common steel. What
I found was a nice ball of rust (valve) and a very very thin grove on the
valve seat. It continued to leak even after replacing the valve with a stainless
steel valve from Bill Blackwell. It was not until I refaced the valve seat
it self, did I get a good seal which lasts me a good month at times between
starts - when I remember to close it of course :}
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
<HTML><FONT FACEarial,helvetica><FONT SIZE2 FAMILY"SANSSERIF" FACE=
"Arial" LANG"0">In a message dated 10/6/2003 1:34:49 PM Eastern Daylig=
ht Time, aprice@vartec.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPECITE style"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">><BR>
<BR>
Last week my YAK52 started leaking down at night ( main system only ). I<BR>
have checked the pop off and put soap on every connection I can find. I have=
<BR>
disconnected the down stream side of the main air valve and checked to see<B=
R>
if it was leaking. I have checked at the fill port and it isn't leaking. I<B=
R>
have removed the airtank, inspected and soap tested it and the fittings.I<BR=
>
have had several people that have great hearing check and have found<BR>
nothing. The leak is getting worse every day. It will leak from 50ATM to 0<B=
R>
in less than 24 hours. I think there is a check valve somewhere that I am<BR=
>
missing.I tested the check valve near the filler and it's not leaking. This<=
BR>
almost has to be a leak inside the system or I could hear the leak. The<BR>
drawings I have of the system are bad quality and hard to read.Yesterday I<B=
R>
pressurized the system with dry Freon and used an electronic devise to sniff=
<BR>
for leaks. I found one small leak that wouldn't change the system pressure<B=
R>
1ATM in a week. Since the Freon detector never found anything inside the<BR>
aircraft, I have to assume the leak is between systems. I cycled the flaps<B=
R>
and the detector went wild, so I know it was working.I am open for all<BR>
suggustions. <BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Did you check the main air valve it self? I had this problem. It=
turned out that the valve seat is aluminum while the valve itself is common=
steel. What I found was a nice ball of rust (valve) and a very very t=
hin grove on the valve seat. It continued to leak even after replacing=
the valve with a stainless steel valve from Bill Blackwell. It was no=
t until I refaced the valve seat it self, did I get a good seal which lasts=20=
me a good month at times between starts - when I remember to close it of cou=
rse :}<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR"#000000" style"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE3=
FACE"Jimsrs" LANG"0">Jim Goolsby</FONT><FONT COLOR"#000000" style=
"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE2 FAMILY"SANSSERIF" FACE"Arial"=20=
LANG"0"><BR>
<BR>
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, <BR>
deserve neither liberty nor safety"<BR>
&nbs=
p; &n=
bsp; =
<U>Benjamin Fra=
nklin 1759</U><BR>
"With my shield, or on it"<BR>
&nbs=
p; &n=
bsp; =
<U>Trojan Warri=
ors BC</U><BR>
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like gr=
apes until some woman stomps all over them."<BR>
&nbs=
p; &n=
bsp; =
<U>Unknown olde=
r man.</U><BR>
</FONT></HTML>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Air leak - Don't have much more hair to pull out. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
The check valve near the air fill port on the 52 is for the emergency
system. The two check valve on the firewall at the right and left side of
the pop off valve are for the main air system. The one on the left is from
the air fill port. The one on the right is from the "snot" bottle. There
are also two check valves under the rear cockpit floor on the right side
that go to the brake reducing valve. One from the main system and the other
from the emergency system.
Did you check the connections at the gauges in each cockpit? I have seen a
connection on a gauge leaking. There are two separate connections on each
gauge; one to the main system and one to the emergency system.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Air leak - Don't have much more hair to pull out.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 10/6/2003 1:34:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> aprice@vartec.net writes:
>
> > >
> >
> > Last week my YAK52 started leaking down at night ( main system only ). I
> > have checked the pop off and put soap on every connection I can find. I
have
> > disconnected the down stream side of the main air valve and checked to
see
> > if it was leaking. I have checked at the fill port and it isn't leaking.
I
> > have removed the airtank, inspected and soap tested it and the
fittings.I
> > have had several people that have great hearing check and have found
> > nothing. The leak is getting worse every day. It will leak from 50ATM to
0
> > in less than 24 hours. I think there is a check valve somewhere that I
am
> > missing.I tested the check valve near the filler and it's not leaking.
This
> > almost has to be a leak inside the system or I could hear the leak. The
> > drawings I have of the system are bad quality and hard to read.Yesterday
I
> > pressurized the system with dry Freon and used an electronic devise to
sniff
> > for leaks. I found one small leak that wouldn't change the system
pressure
> > 1ATM in a week. Since the Freon detector never found anything inside the
> > aircraft, I have to assume the leak is between systems. I cycled the
flaps
> > and the detector went wild, so I know it was working.I am open for all
> > suggustions.
> >
> >
>
> Did you check the main air valve it self? I had this problem. It turned
out
> that the valve seat is aluminum while the valve itself is common steel.
What
> I found was a nice ball of rust (valve) and a very very thin grove on the
> valve seat. It continued to leak even after replacing the valve with a
stainless
> steel valve from Bill Blackwell. It was not until I refaced the valve
seat
> it self, did I get a good seal which lasts me a good month at times
between
> starts - when I remember to close it of course :}
>
> Jim Goolsby
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
> deserve neither liberty nor safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
> "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like
grapes
> until some woman stomps all over them."
> Unknown older man.
>
>
> <HTML><FONT FACEarial,helvetica><FONT SIZE2 FAMILY"SANSSERIF" FACE=
> "Arial" LANG"0">In a message dated 10/6/2003 1:34:49 PM Eastern Daylig=
> ht Time, aprice@vartec.net writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPECITE style"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
> : 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">><BR>
> <BR>
> Last week my YAK52 started leaking down at night ( main system only ).
I<BR>
> have checked the pop off and put soap on every connection I can find. I
have=
> <BR>
> disconnected the down stream side of the main air valve and checked to
see<B=
> R>
> if it was leaking. I have checked at the fill port and it isn't leaking.
I<B=
> R>
> have removed the airtank, inspected and soap tested it and the
fittings.I<BR=
> >
> have had several people that have great hearing check and have found<BR>
> nothing. The leak is getting worse every day. It will leak from 50ATM to
0<B=
> R>
> in less than 24 hours. I think there is a check valve somewhere that I
am<BR=
> >
> missing.I tested the check valve near the filler and it's not leaking.
This<=
> BR>
> almost has to be a leak inside the system or I could hear the leak.
The<BR>
> drawings I have of the system are bad quality and hard to read.Yesterday
I<B=
> R>
> pressurized the system with dry Freon and used an electronic devise to
sniff=
> <BR>
> for leaks. I found one small leak that wouldn't change the system
pressure<B=
> R>
> 1ATM in a week. Since the Freon detector never found anything inside
the<BR>
> aircraft, I have to assume the leak is between systems. I cycled the
flaps<B=
> R>
> and the detector went wild, so I know it was working.I am open for all<BR>
> suggustions. <BR>
> <BR>
> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
> <BR>
> Did you check the main air valve it self? I had this problem.
It=
> turned out that the valve seat is aluminum while the valve itself is
common=
> steel. What I found was a nice ball of rust (valve) and a very very
t=
> hin grove on the valve seat. It continued to leak even after
replacing=
> the valve with a stainless steel valve from Bill Blackwell. It was
no=
> t until I refaced the valve seat it self, did I get a good seal which
lasts=20=
> me a good month at times between starts - when I remember to close it of
cou=
> rse :}<BR>
> <BR>
> </FONT><FONT COLOR"#000000" style"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE3=
> FACE"Jimsrs" LANG"0">Jim Goolsby</FONT><FONT COLOR"#000000" style=
> "BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE2 FAMILY"SANSSERIF" FACE"Arial"=20=
> LANG"0"><BR>
> <BR>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, <BR>
> deserve neither liberty nor safety"<BR>
>
&nbs
=
>
p; &n
=
>
bsp;
=
> <U>Benjamin
Fra=
> nklin 1759</U><BR>
> "With my shield, or on it"<BR>
>
&nbs
=
>
p; &n
=
>
bsp;
=
> <U>Trojan
Warri=
> ors BC</U><BR>
> "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like
gr=
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Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: michael.beach@ps.ge.com
Hi every one I'm trying to make contact with Terry Calloway, Bill
Mills & James H Plumlee regarding the paint schemes on there
CJ'S, I have just purchased one and would like some information on
the schemes that they have used.
Thanks
Mike Beach
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