Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:00 AM - wet wings (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
2. 01:08 AM - down time (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
3. 04:37 AM - Re: wet wings (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 04:56 AM - speaking of fuel (cjpilot710@aol.com)
5. 05:21 AM - Re: wet wings (Brian Lloyd)
6. 05:57 AM - Re: speaking of fuel (Brian Lloyd)
7. 05:57 AM - Paint (JL)
8. 08:26 AM - Extra fuel (Dean Courtney)
9. 08:42 AM - Re: Extra fuel (Brian Lloyd)
10. 09:31 AM - Re: speaking of fuel (gpa)
11. 09:46 AM - Re: speaking of fuel (A. Dennis Savarese)
12. 09:53 AM - Re: wet wings (Doug)
13. 09:53 AM - Re: speaking of fuel (Doug)
14. 10:46 AM - Re: China Spec program (Yakjock)
15. 12:42 PM - Re: China Spec program (YakL1@aol.com)
16. 05:46 PM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 10/12/03 (Skipsly@aol.com)
17. 07:31 PM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 10/12/03 (Dee Grimm)
18. 10:50 PM - CJ power settings (Jon Boede)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
Dennis, I agree we have 5.5 lts in the fuse, this is in a factory made tank, properly
secured and is in a very crash resistant area and like all things YAK,
probably over engineered and designed. Its also enclosed under the floor so a
split/ spillage would not cover the rear seat occupant. That being said the resultant
fire would scorch you !! Not as bad as being covered in fuel though.
As to wet wings leaking, the YAK 54, 55 (and all airlines I believe-Brian comment
:>)) all have wet wings at manufacture, the 55 is now 15+ years old, I have
never seen one of these leaking. The skill in sealing a wet wing design is in
the assembly and diligence taken along with using the correct materials. Of the
30+ a/c we have done (wet wings) only 2 leaked and this was in the early days.
In fact the very first did not. I know other companies have tried to copy
what we do, perhaps its these people who are the cause of the leaks and hence
the reputation!!
Making the wet wing is a very skill full job and great care must be taken. The
materials are very messy and smelly, the work is awkward and difficult riveting
at arms length etc.
If anyone would like more info on how to do it, pls call me and I will describe.
cheers, MJ.
With regards to fire risk, as you already know, we carry fuel in the
fuselage with the 5.5 liter header tank under the rear floor. So that
argument doesn't hold up. Yes, the internal modifications to the wings are
available during overhaul, but for those who already own a 52 and would like
the additional fuel, it's a mute point. Plus, as many of us have seen, wet
wings leak.
Dennis
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
Down time is 4 weeks and cost is 6000 Euro. I am sure that USA companies can match
or better these times. BTW, we use PRC to seal the tanks, I assume proseal
is another name for the same product?
Also we do not touch the vent system of the original set up, however it is possible
to change the original vent system so that the "vented fuel" does not go
overboard but into the aux tanks. If the aux is full to the top (only when about
to depart on long trip) yes you will vent overboard, just like any other a/c!!!
bye 4 now :>)
But for an existing YAK 52 owner here in the US, more than likely either
solution would be cost prohibitive and with an extensive down time.
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Mark,
I am confident you have perfected the art of creating wet wing tanks in the
original YAK 52's. Unfortunately, the attempts to do so here in the US have
been less successful and quite frankly, few and far between. Even some of
the new 52 W's and TW's which as you know have wet wing tanks, have
developed leaks.
If you would not mind sharing your tried and true method that you use to
create these wing tanks, then maybe owners here in the US might be more
receptive to modifying their airplanes. Until such time as we are able to
experience your proven method of adding more fuel to the 52's wings, we'll
probably just have to suffer with 1.5 hours of flight time (30 minute
reserve) and land or as previously discussed install the rear seat tank.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
Subject: Yak-List: wet wings
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd"
<mark@yakuk.com>
>
> Dennis, I agree we have 5.5 lts in the fuse, this is in a factory made
tank, properly secured and is in a very crash resistant area and like all
things YAK, probably over engineered and designed. Its also enclosed under
the floor so a split/ spillage would not cover the rear seat occupant. That
being said the resultant fire would scorch you !! Not as bad as being
covered in fuel though.
>
> As to wet wings leaking, the YAK 54, 55 (and all airlines I believe-Brian
comment :>)) all have wet wings at manufacture, the 55 is now 15+ years old,
I have never seen one of these leaking. The skill in sealing a wet wing
design is in the assembly and diligence taken along with using the correct
materials. Of the 30+ a/c we have done (wet wings) only 2 leaked and this
was in the early days. In fact the very first did not. I know other
companies have tried to copy what we do, perhaps its these people who are
the cause of the leaks and hence the reputation!!
>
> Making the wet wing is a very skill full job and great care must be taken.
The materials are very messy and smelly, the work is awkward and difficult
riveting at arms length etc.
>
> If anyone would like more info on how to do it, pls call me and I will
describe.
>
> cheers, MJ.
>
> With regards to fire risk, as you already know, we carry fuel in the
> fuselage with the 5.5 liter header tank under the rear floor. So that
> argument doesn't hold up. Yes, the internal modifications to the wings
are
> available during overhaul, but for those who already own a 52 and would
like
> the additional fuel, it's a mute point. Plus, as many of us have seen,
wet
> wings leak.
> Dennis
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | speaking of fuel |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Troops,
Has anyone out there ever put an electric fuel boost pump in a CJ-6? MY
manual wobble pump is starting to act up on me. Should the engine fuel pump
failed, I've never seen myself pumping like a mad man and trying to fly at the
same
time. (I can't do two things at once)
Ideas or suggestion on what pump you may have used and where you placed it.
I'm a KISS type guy.
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd wrote:
> As to wet wings leaking, the YAK 54, 55 (and all airlines I
> believe-Brian comment :>))
Brian doesn't know. Brian can't comment. I do have experience with wet wings
tho'. I owned an RV-4. You can live with 'em if you did the prep and sealing
properly. Proseal is one of those things you love to hate. It takes months
to completely wear off of your skin and you are not going to have arm hair for
awhile.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: speaking of fuel |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> Troops,
> Has anyone out there ever put an electric fuel boost pump in a CJ-6? MY
> manual wobble pump is starting to act up on me. Should the engine fuel pump
> failed, I've never seen myself pumping like a mad man and trying to fly at the
same
> time. (I can't do two things at once)
I have come to the same conclusion. The Project has an electric fuel pump to replace
the manual wobble pump. I will let you know how well it works when we
fly it.
> Ideas or suggestion on what pump you may have used and where you placed it.
> I'm a KISS type guy.
Send email to Randy Thorne. He picked up the pump and installed it. He did it
while I have been down here so I don't know exactly where it is. I *think* he
put it in the space vacated by the wobble pump. One thing you probably want
to do is to add a check valve that will allow fuel to flow around the electric
pump should it fail, i.e.
check
valve
,----O>----.
| |
engine<------+--[pump]--+------< tankage
You can even put a couple of check valves at input and output of the pump to back
up the pump's internal valves. If the pump is a diaphragm type, the diaphragm
ruptures, and a valve fails it can allow air in which would incapacitate the
fuel system. The extra check valves would help prevent that.
The one thing to worry about is making sure the fuel pump won't overpressure the
input to the carburetor. It should be limited to about 6PSI and flow the maximum
flow rate for the engine at full throttle, full rich mixture, and full RPM
at sea level. I forget the exact figure for the 360 hp M-14P but it was up
around 40 GPH.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: JL <jland@popeandland.com>
Everyone
I'm still trying to find out if anyone can give me a suggestion on the
proper colors to use for the red and yellow in the Star.
Thanks,
Jay Land
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney" <deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
Yakers,
As a Yak 50 pilot, Hell I'd love to have 31 gallons! We Americans are never
satisfied. :)
Dean Courtney
Yak 50 84-2805
deancourtney696@hotmail.com
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Dean Courtney wrote:
> As a Yak 50 pilot, Hell I'd love to have 31 gallons!
Or 3-5 more inches as the say in the SPAM emails I keep receiving. 8
) I think they are talking about manifold pressure, right? Yeah, I would like
to get 3-5 more inches of MAP. You can never have too much horsepower.
> We Americans are never satisfied. :)
Speak for yourself! I have been satisfied several times in my life.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: speaking of fuel |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "gpa" <catfsh4u@bellsouth.net>
Hey Jim,
I recently bought a Yak 52 with installed tip tanks. Electric fuel pumps for
the tip tanks feed the main tank. They work well (so far). Flip a switch
and they turn on, turn off automatically when the main tank is full. Steve
Beaver spent a day disassembling and reassembling one of the pumps/switches
on my aircraft to satisfy his curiosity. I don't know if Steve subscribes to
this list but his email is sbeaver@columbus.rr.com He could probably tell
you what model pump it is and maybe make a suggestion or two.
Regards,
Greg Arnold
N624PT
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: speaking of fuel
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> Troops,
> Has anyone out there ever put an electric fuel boost pump in a CJ-6? MY
> manual wobble pump is starting to act up on me. Should the engine fuel
pump
> failed, I've never seen myself pumping like a mad man and trying to fly at
the same
> time. (I can't do two things at once)
>
> Ideas or suggestion on what pump you may have used and where you placed
it.
> I'm a KISS type guy.
>
> Jim Goolsby
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
> deserve neither liberty nor safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
> "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like
grapes
> until some woman stomps all over them."
> Unknown older man.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: speaking of fuel |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
I emailed Jim off-list with the type and model of pump used in the rear seat
aux fuel tank installation. It's available from Aircraft Spruce for around
$51.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "gpa" <catfsh4u@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: speaking of fuel
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "gpa" <catfsh4u@bellsouth.net>
>
> Hey Jim,
>
> I recently bought a Yak 52 with installed tip tanks. Electric fuel pumps
for
> the tip tanks feed the main tank. They work well (so far). Flip a switch
> and they turn on, turn off automatically when the main tank is full.
Steve
> Beaver spent a day disassembling and reassembling one of the
pumps/switches
> on my aircraft to satisfy his curiosity. I don't know if Steve subscribes
to
> this list but his email is sbeaver@columbus.rr.com He could probably tell
> you what model pump it is and maybe make a suggestion or two.
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg Arnold
> N624PT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: speaking of fuel
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >
> > Troops,
> > Has anyone out there ever put an electric fuel boost pump in a CJ-6? MY
> > manual wobble pump is starting to act up on me. Should the engine fuel
> pump
> > failed, I've never seen myself pumping like a mad man and trying to fly
at
> the same
> > time. (I can't do two things at once)
> >
> > Ideas or suggestion on what pump you may have used and where you placed
> it.
> > I'm a KISS type guy.
> >
> > Jim Goolsby
> >
> > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
> > deserve neither liberty nor safety"
> > Benjamin Franklin 1759
> > "With my shield, or on it"
> > Trojan Warriors BC
> > "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like
> grapes
> > until some woman stomps all over them."
> > Unknown older man.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Mark,
PRC comes in many formulations, can you tell me which you have found to work
best?
Always yakin,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
Subject: Yak-List: wet wings
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd"
<mark@yakuk.com>
>
> Dennis, I agree we have 5.5 lts in the fuse, this is in a factory made
tank, properly secured and is in a very crash resistant area and like all
things YAK, probably over engineered and designed. Its also enclosed under
the floor so a split/ spillage would not cover the rear seat occupant. That
being said the resultant fire would scorch you !! Not as bad as being
covered in fuel though.
>
> As to wet wings leaking, the YAK 54, 55 (and all airlines I believe-Brian
comment :>)) all have wet wings at manufacture, the 55 is now 15+ years old,
I have never seen one of these leaking. The skill in sealing a wet wing
design is in the assembly and diligence taken along with using the correct
materials. Of the 30+ a/c we have done (wet wings) only 2 leaked and this
was in the early days. In fact the very first did not. I know other
companies have tried to copy what we do, perhaps its these people who are
the cause of the leaks and hence the reputation!!
>
> Making the wet wing is a very skill full job and great care must be taken.
The materials are very messy and smelly, the work is awkward and difficult
riveting at arms length etc.
>
> If anyone would like more info on how to do it, pls call me and I will
describe.
>
> cheers, MJ.
>
> With regards to fire risk, as you already know, we carry fuel in the
> fuselage with the 5.5 liter header tank under the rear floor. So that
> argument doesn't hold up. Yes, the internal modifications to the wings
are
> available during overhaul, but for those who already own a 52 and would
like
> the additional fuel, it's a mute point. Plus, as many of us have seen, we
t
> wings leak.
> Dennis
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: speaking of fuel |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Jim and all,
Bill Nicholson (my aux tank installer guru) has a elec fuel pump kit.
Contact him @ 509-476-2974.
Always yakin,
Doug Sapp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: speaking of fuel
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >
> > Troops,
> > Has anyone out there ever put an electric fuel boost pump in a CJ-6? MY
> > manual wobble pump is starting to act up on me. Should the engine fuel
pump
> > failed, I've never seen myself pumping like a mad man and trying to fly
at the same
> > time. (I can't do two things at once)
>
> I have come to the same conclusion. The Project has an electric fuel pump
to replace the manual wobble pump. I will let you know how well it works
when we fly it.
>
> > Ideas or suggestion on what pump you may have used and where you placed
it.
> > I'm a KISS type guy.
>
> Send email to Randy Thorne. He picked up the pump and installed it. He
did it while I have been down here so I don't know exactly where it is. I
*think* he put it in the space vacated by the wobble pump. One thing you
probably want to do is to add a check valve that will allow fuel to flow
around the electric pump should it fail, i.e.
>
> check
> valve
> ,----O>----.
> | |
> engine<------+--[pump]--+------< tankage
>
> You can even put a couple of check valves at input and output of the pump
to back up the pump's internal valves. If the pump is a diaphragm type, the
diaphragm ruptures, and a valve fails it can allow air in which would
incapacitate the fuel system. The extra check valves would help prevent
that.
>
> The one thing to worry about is making sure the fuel pump won't
overpressure the input to the carburetor. It should be limited to about
6PSI and flow the maximum flow rate for the engine at full throttle, full
rich mixture, and full RPM at sea level. I forget the exact figure for the
360 hp M-14P but it was up around 40 GPH.
>
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: China Spec program |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
Jim,
Clearly Al was talking only about the space program, any similarities to other
programs was, I'm sure, purely coincidental.
Nice historical write-up!
Hal Morley
CJ-6A "8"
(503) 704-6559 cell
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: China Spec program |
--> Yak-List message posted by: YakL1@aol.com
T-minus 15 sec: Main Air on!
T-minus 10 sec: Cooling Gills: open, Air cooler: midrange
T-minus 5 sec: Flap handle: forward, Pole: down, Mixture: full rich
etc, etc, etc
I bet when they hit the button on that thing you'll be able to hear the rush
of air in Ulan Bator.
J. Zecherle (CJ 911YK)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 10/12/03 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Skipsly@aol.com
In a message dated 10/13/2003 3:59:13 AM Atlantic Daylight Time,
yak-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> > Russ Dycus
> >
Russ! Just show up and we'll get you airborne plenty.
Sly
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 10/12/03 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dee Grimm" <deegrimm@cox.net>
Hi Russ,
If I am at the fly-in and you are there, you can count on flying my ship
with me in the back seat.
Regards, Dee
----- Original Message -----
From: <Skipsly@aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Re: Yak-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 10/12/03
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Skipsly@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/13/2003 3:59:13 AM Atlantic Daylight Time,
> yak-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>
>
> > > Russ Dycus
> > >
>
> Russ! Just show up and we'll get you airborne plenty.
>
> Sly
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | CJ power settings |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Having burned two exhaust valves (for reasons that are still unknown) over
the last 400 hours in my 285HP CJ engine, I suspect that my desire to not
burn any more is probably introducing something of bad habit.
I have developed a self-imposed rule that if I'm seeing more than 650mm of
manifold pressure, I don't want to see less than 2,000rpm. The net result
of this is that I wind up running around at 2,000rpm whenever I'm below
about 8,000'. I have some vague notion of "over square" in my head but
it's not really based on anything concrete.
At what point (in mmHg) is it reasonable to pull the prop back to 1,950rpm?
Is there really some benefit to getting back to 1,900 or 1,850 rpm? The
net of the lower fuel burn and the slower speed seems to be that I always
burn about the same amount of gas, but get there later -- so I gain nada
but lose time. I've never seen a good table of manifold, prop, and
expected fuel burn for the CJ.
And to ask a long-standing question I've had, is there some reason or
benefit to pulling the throttle back from "full" when you're high enough
that you're seeing around 600mm of manifold pressure? This is to say, if
moving the throttle back an inch or so off the forward stop doesn't seem
to affect manifold pressure, is it better to keep it all the way forward
or to pull it back a bit?
Jon
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