Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:13 AM - Instruments for Sale (Lenleg@aol.com)
2. 05:32 AM - Was: magnets . .. minor contributions to safety (Tom Johnson)
3. 11:28 AM - Cal fires (Doug Sapp)
4. 12:25 PM - Sources & Prices for M14P Props (Kinker, JC (AZ76))
5. 12:42 PM - Re: Alternators for the M14P (Ron Davis)
6. 12:44 PM - Re: Was: magnets . .. minor contributions to safety (cjpilot710@aol.com)
7. 02:49 PM - Re: Was: magnets . .. minor contributions to safety (Ernest Martinez)
8. 02:51 PM - Re: Was: magnets . .. minor contributions to safety (Ernest Martinez)
9. 02:56 PM - Re: Alternators for the M14P (Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb)
10. 03:48 PM - Nicads (jay reiter)
11. 08:15 PM - Re: Sources & Prices for M14P Props (Mark Schrick)
12. 10:31 PM - Re: Sources & Prices for M14P Props (Rick Basiliere)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Instruments for Sale |
pietenpol-list@matronics.com, commander-list@matronics.com,
aerobatic-list@matronics.com, europa-list@matronics.com
--> Yak-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
I have the following for sale:
RC Allen Electric Attitude Indicator with 8 degree tilt, 14V, approx. 75hrs
RC Allen Electric Direction Gyro, 14V, 150 hrs,
Both instruments are in my RV-8A still flying. Been flying in my plane for 1
year.
Instruments retail for $1895 each. Make an offer off list. Please respond
direct to: lenleg@aol.com
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
Message 2
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| Subject: | Was: magnets . .. minor contributions to safety |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
What is so great about this list . . ..
Even when a person offers a seemingly minor contribution to safety . .
like the use of magnets to catch screwdrivers, vice-grips, and steel screws that
are used in Yak52 etc. . .
(And obviously a magnet doesn't catch plastic or ally (alloy) .. thank you for
helping me with that. . . )
This list is so great because you can be heckled from each and every corner of
the world!
If we're going to think about this problem truthfully, maybe a committee is needed
to collect and evaluate ALL the ideas.
The "Drain" hole in the fuselage
The "pushrod" control tubes
The "cowmagnet protocol of 2003"
The "FOMBARS (Fabric Or Mesh Bulkhead Access Restriction System)"
The "Clear lexan inspection panel cover referendum of 2003"
The "great zues fastener to remove the inspection panel quickly design model of
Arizona"
The "Lets try all of them approach"
The "Lets try none of them approach"
The "Clean pockets and flight suits approach" . . no . . scratch that one . .
.
The "Clean pockets and wear a flight suit only if you want to approach"
Ahh. What the hell. Why waste our time ..
The FAA will figure it out for us
Tom Johnson
A Yak52 owner in Arizona, USA
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Check out the Sat. photos of the CA fires.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/natural_hazards_v2.php3?img_
id=11804
Doug Sapp
Message 4
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| Subject: | Sources & Prices for M14P Props |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kinker, JC (AZ76)" <jc.kinker@honeywell.com>
Airedales;
I want to upgrade my CJ and need your help in finding sources to buy a two
blade paddle or a three blade prop.
Also, I am interested in what current CJ/Yakers have paid for their M14P two
and three bladers.
Check 6, JC
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Alternators for the M14P |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
Good point. That is what makes a gently used battery last longer than one
that is abused. The effect is minimal unless you run one cell completely
dead. In that case that cell is reverse charged and it's life is
significantly shortened.
There are two basic strategies for charging batteries: constant voltage and
constant current. Most simple and inexpensive chargers for lead-acid
batteries are constant voltage. So is your plane. Battery shops sometimes
have constant current chargers (the batteries are all in series and the
charger increases the voltage to whatever it takes to get the 2 amps or
whatever it is set at).
I know some batteries have very intricate charging instructions (NiCads in a
King Air for example). The airplane electrical system can't possibly jump
through all of the hoops that the mechanic is expected to (admittedly the
$4000 ground charger does this automatically). This may be why NiCads don't
last long when used in real life applications like airplanes.
It seems to me the battery engineer's job is to design a battery suitable
for the conditions in the plane, rather dictating a lot of impractical
charging or ground servicing requirements. The great advantage of an
experimental plane is that you can use what works instead of buying the bill
of goods that Wichita wants to sell you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
>
> I wonder why the battery states it should be charged at one to two amps on
a
> charger? What you say is true for a topped off battery but I don't think
> your battery life will be long if you run it down for whatever reason and
> hit it with 50 amps over and over.
> Jim Griffin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
> >
> > I've had this comment before from an owner that thought his big powerful
> > generator was going to blow up my (temporary) lawnmower batteries and
burn
> > his jet to the ground.
> >
> > Think about this way: The little 4 watt nightlight bulb in your
bathroom
> is
> > plugged into a wilre that has several 1000 Megawatt power plants on the
> > other end. The nightlight only takes as much power as it needs. So
will
> > your motorcycle batteries.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
> > >
> > > I have a 10 amp B & C alternator on my Housai and it works fine. Steve
> > Culp
> > > told me he had placed a 50 amp on it initially and had some problems.
I
> > have
> > > 2 motorcycle batteries in the plane and I suspect it was just too much
> > > amperage. Make sure that you use their solid state voltage regulator
> with
> > > it. If you go with the 50 amp I would also purchase their overvoltage
> > > protection as well.
> > > Good Luck
> > > Jim Griffin CJ6-A 273SC
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
> > > >
> > > > Some time back someone posted an article on a 50 amp alternator that
> fit
> > > the M14P. If memory serves they also indicated that by changing
> something
> > > the alternator could be converted to a 100 amp alternator. I'd
> appreciate
> > > feedback on this or other ideas folks may have for a 50 plus amp
> > alternator.
> > > I am aware that B&C has one .
> > > >
> > > > Also, I am planning on installing HID landing lights. Anyone have
> ideas
> > > on good ones to use and where I can source them?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the help.
> > > >
> > > > Hal
> > > >
> > > > Hal Morley
> > > > CJ-6A "8"
> > > > CJ-6A "Hana Ho!"
> > > >
> > > > (503) 704-6559 cell
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Was: magnets . .. minor contributions to safety |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Hi Gang,
Still out flying around on the B-24 and B-17. Presently in Lancaster S.C. where
the FBO is letting me use his computer. On our way to Camden next.
Just pick up a rumor that the TSA sent a number of jet Warbird owners that their
airplanes were grounded until they got clearance from the TSA. Don't ask me
where the hell they have the authority to do so. It seem this message was sent
via FAX and not a letter. Something don't sound right here.
Anyway has anyone else heard this?
Jim Goolsby
Message 7
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| Subject: | Was: magnets . .. minor contributions to safety |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Yes this is true. After 9/11 there was an FDC NOTAM 2/5167 which
proclaimed that instruction and/or proficiency flight in aircraft
weighing more than 12,500 lbs or turbojet powered aircraft was
prohibited. In order to fly, we had to apply for a waiver from the FAA
which made you fill out a form stating the steps taken to secure the
aircraft and how you were going to screen passengers etc etc. Us warbird
owners were allowed to apply for a blanket waiver. Now the TSA has sent
out a fax to all of us requesting that we re-submit the information. I
did it the same day then received a call from a nice lady at the TSA.
She thanked me for my prompt response and said my new waiver was being
sent out....I haven't received anything yet. There was never any
language however stating that we were grounded.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Was: magnets . .. minor contributions to safety
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Hi Gang,
Still out flying around on the B-24 and B-17. Presently in Lancaster
S.C. where the FBO is letting me use his computer. On our way to Camden
next.
Just pick up a rumor that the TSA sent a number of jet Warbird owners
that their airplanes were grounded until they got clearance from the
TSA. Don't ask me where the hell they have the authority to do so. It
seem this message was sent via FAX and not a letter. Something don't
sound right here.
Anyway has anyone else heard this?
Jim Goolsby
=
==
==
==
==
Message 8
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| Subject: | Was: magnets . .. minor contributions to safety |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Correction, the fax said that we had 30 days to re-apply. If they don't
receive the application within 30 days then the original blanket waiver
will be cancelled.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Was: magnets . .. minor contributions to safety
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Hi Gang,
Still out flying around on the B-24 and B-17. Presently in Lancaster
S.C. where the FBO is letting me use his computer. On our way to Camden
next.
Just pick up a rumor that the TSA sent a number of jet Warbird owners
that their airplanes were grounded until they got clearance from the
TSA. Don't ask me where the hell they have the authority to do so. It
seem this message was sent via FAX and not a letter. Something don't
sound right here.
Anyway has anyone else heard this?
Jim Goolsby
=
==
==
==
==
Message 9
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| From: | "Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za> |
| Subject: | Alternators for the M14P |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Lead acid type batteries want to be charged using constant voltage. As the
battery is charged, the internal voltage increases, thereby automatically
reducing the current that flows into it. Nicads prefer a constant current,
but unless using a sophisticated charger (like the $4000 one mentioned)one
cannot easily control the charge. You can build a simple circuit using an
adjustable voltage regulator to create a homebrew constant current charger
for ground use, but this would be limited to relatively small currents.
Most nicads are ruined through overcharging, so unless flying every day
rather go for a small current.
A trick I have used previously (on a seldom used motorcycle & on 2 boats) is
to fit a fused DC plug with cover somewhere convenient, then made up a long
charging lead connected to low capacity charger. When not in use, simply
plug it in and keep it plugged in, then its always ready for use. Should
work fine on a plane. Just keep the charging current down so you don't fry
the battery, or fit a regulator in the circuit so that as the battery
reaches charge, the current reduces to float. If you dont have power in the
hangar use a solar panel or 2 in series for 24V.
This is the same problem yachties have, good info on the web.
Hella make a great DC plug that is waterproof with a positive locking
action, and can handle around 10A. I think its designed for rally style fog
lights, and works really well for this type of application.
When choosing a battery work out the total drain (e.g. xsponder + comm) in
Amp hours, multiply by how many hours you want, double it and thats what
size battery you need. E.g. 1.5AH X 3 hours + 4.5AH, you need a 9AH
battery. You will never get all 9AH out of it and shouldn't discharge
totally anyway, plus you get a bit of reserve.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Davis
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
Good point. That is what makes a gently used battery last longer than one
that is abused. The effect is minimal unless you run one cell completely
dead. In that case that cell is reverse charged and it's life is
significantly shortened.
There are two basic strategies for charging batteries: constant voltage and
constant current. Most simple and inexpensive chargers for lead-acid
batteries are constant voltage. So is your plane. Battery shops sometimes
have constant current chargers (the batteries are all in series and the
charger increases the voltage to whatever it takes to get the 2 amps or
whatever it is set at).
I know some batteries have very intricate charging instructions (NiCads in a
King Air for example). The airplane electrical system can't possibly jump
through all of the hoops that the mechanic is expected to (admittedly the
$4000 ground charger does this automatically). This may be why NiCads don't
last long when used in real life applications like airplanes.
It seems to me the battery engineer's job is to design a battery suitable
for the conditions in the plane, rather dictating a lot of impractical
charging or ground servicing requirements. The great advantage of an
experimental plane is that you can use what works instead of buying the bill
of goods that Wichita wants to sell you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
>
> I wonder why the battery states it should be charged at one to two amps on
a
> charger? What you say is true for a topped off battery but I don't think
> your battery life will be long if you run it down for whatever reason and
> hit it with 50 amps over and over.
> Jim Griffin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
> >
> > I've had this comment before from an owner that thought his big powerful
> > generator was going to blow up my (temporary) lawnmower batteries and
burn
> > his jet to the ground.
> >
> > Think about this way: The little 4 watt nightlight bulb in your
bathroom
> is
> > plugged into a wilre that has several 1000 Megawatt power plants on the
> > other end. The nightlight only takes as much power as it needs. So
will
> > your motorcycle batteries.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
> > >
> > > I have a 10 amp B & C alternator on my Housai and it works fine. Steve
> > Culp
> > > told me he had placed a 50 amp on it initially and had some problems.
I
> > have
> > > 2 motorcycle batteries in the plane and I suspect it was just too much
> > > amperage. Make sure that you use their solid state voltage regulator
> with
> > > it. If you go with the 50 amp I would also purchase their overvoltage
> > > protection as well.
> > > Good Luck
> > > Jim Griffin CJ6-A 273SC
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
> > > >
> > > > Some time back someone posted an article on a 50 amp alternator that
> fit
> > > the M14P. If memory serves they also indicated that by changing
> something
> > > the alternator could be converted to a 100 amp alternator. I'd
> appreciate
> > > feedback on this or other ideas folks may have for a 50 plus amp
> > alternator.
> > > I am aware that B&C has one .
> > > >
> > > > Also, I am planning on installing HID landing lights. Anyone have
> ideas
> > > on good ones to use and where I can source them?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the help.
> > > >
> > > > Hal
> > > >
> > > > Hal Morley
> > > > CJ-6A "8"
> > > > CJ-6A "Hana Ho!"
> > > >
> > > > (503) 704-6559 cell
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
The aircraft chargers use two methods constant current till the battery reaches
1.36 volts per cell than switches to pulse charge for toping charge. The other
method is pulse charge of varying duty cycle. The NiCad has to be temperature
monitored as if they have a shorted cell they can reach thermal overload and
can burn there way out of the aircraft. I have seen several batteries short cells
toward the end of charge on a monitored Christie charger and fill the shop
with acrid smoke.
The charge current of a lead acid battery is limited by the difference of potential
between the regulated voltage and the battery voltage with the series resistance
being the leads and battery internal resistance. As the battery voltage
reaches end of charge the current is reduced because the difference of potential
is reduced
Message 11
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| Subject: | Sources & Prices for M14P Props |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Schrick" <schrick@pacbell.net>
New three blade MTV9-250-27 prop with normal spinners run $10,000 PLUS for
that set up.
Two bladed V530 props run from NEW $4500 to used $3000 if you can find them.
Finding them is the challenge, many have been chewed up this year with gear
up lands and other issues.
GESOCO Industries in Swanton, VT is the best supplier of both props and
spare parts.
Good luck everyone.
Mark SHREK Schrick
YAK Driver, Inc
Western USA Dealer for AEROSTAR (Yak 52TW /W)
Fully Restored YAK 52s, Can help met anyones budget !!
966 Wallace Drive
San Jose, Ca 95120-1848
(408) 323-5150 phone / fax
408) 391-6664 cell
schrick@pacbell.net <mailto:schrick@pacbell.net>
www.YAKDRIVER.com <http://www.YAKDRIVER.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kinker, JC
(AZ76)
Subject: Yak-List: Sources & Prices for M14P Props
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kinker, JC (AZ76)"
<jc.kinker@honeywell.com>
Airedales;
I want to upgrade my CJ and need your help in finding sources to buy a two
blade paddle or a three blade prop.
Also, I am interested in what current CJ/Yakers have paid for their M14P two
and three bladers.
Check 6, JC
Message 12
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| Subject: | Sources & Prices for M14P Props |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rick Basiliere" <discrab@earthlink.net>
The "hot rock on the block" is the new and improved MTV-9-B-C/CL260-29,
released 8/20/2003. I think I remember Larry Schlasinger of MT quoting me
12k for the new -29. Larry is taking in trades (MTV-3 and MTV-9-with -27
blades) and not giving us much for a trade. I know a MTV-9-260 -27 blades
that is going in. Larry's e-mail mtprop@hotmail.com
Better yet...if you are interested in an MTV-3-250 with brand new overhauls
(4/03), all AD's cw. I have two that I would sell for $8,500 obo each to
allow me to get the new -29 (and swipe some of Larry's resale profit). I
need all the penetration I can get... Vertical for aerobatics, potty minds.
Respectfully, Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Schrick
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Sources & Prices for M14P Props
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Schrick" <schrick@pacbell.net>
New three blade MTV9-250-27 prop with normal spinners run $10,000 PLUS for
that set up.
Two bladed V530 props run from NEW $4500 to used $3000 if you can find them.
Finding them is the challenge, many have been chewed up this year with gear
up lands and other issues.
GESOCO Industries in Swanton, VT is the best supplier of both props and
spare parts.
Good luck everyone.
Mark SHREK Schrick
YAK Driver, Inc
Western USA Dealer for AEROSTAR (Yak 52TW /W)
Fully Restored YAK 52s, Can help met anyones budget !!
966 Wallace Drive
San Jose, Ca 95120-1848
(408) 323-5150 phone / fax
408) 391-6664 cell
schrick@pacbell.net <mailto:schrick@pacbell.net>
www.YAKDRIVER.com <http://www.YAKDRIVER.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kinker, JC
(AZ76)
Subject: Yak-List: Sources & Prices for M14P Props
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kinker, JC (AZ76)"
<jc.kinker@honeywell.com>
Airedales;
I want to upgrade my CJ and need your help in finding sources to buy a two
blade paddle or a three blade prop.
Also, I am interested in what current CJ/Yakers have paid for their M14P two
and three bladers.
Check 6, JC
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