---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/12/03: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:03 AM - YAK 52 Compass (Aubrey Price) 2. 04:34 AM - Re: YAK 52 Compass (Gus Fraser) 3. 05:05 AM - Re: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. (A. Dennis Savarese) 4. 05:41 AM - Re: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. (Frank Haertlein) 5. 05:57 AM - Re: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. (A. Dennis Savarese) 6. 07:20 AM - Re: YAK 52 Compass (KevLCo@aol.com) 7. 08:29 AM - Team Red (Barry Hancock) 8. 08:34 AM - There are TWO crazies amongst us??? (Barry Hancock) 9. 08:50 AM - Re: YAK 52 Compass (D Zeman) 10. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: YAK 52 Compass (Boyd Braem) 11. 11:07 AM - Compass Fluid (jay reiter) 12. 11:32 AM - Re: Compass Fluid (Doug Sapp) 13. 11:53 AM - Re: Re: YAK 52 Compass (Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb) 14. 11:58 AM - Re: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. (Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb) 15. 01:19 PM - Re: Batteries (was: Alternators for the M14P) (Ron Davis) 16. 01:59 PM - Re: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. (Doug Sapp) 17. 02:19 PM - Re: Compass Fluid (Jim Ivey) 18. 02:52 PM - Re: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. (jay reiter) 19. 03:44 PM - Re: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. (Gus Fraser) 20. 04:20 PM - Re: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. (Jim Duffy) 21. 07:55 PM - Re: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. (Walt Lannon) 22. 08:06 PM - Re: Alternators for the M14P (Brian Lloyd) 23. 08:07 PM - Re:batteries (Brian Lloyd) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:02 AM PST US From: Aubrey Price Subject: Yak-List: YAK 52 Compass --> Yak-List message posted by: Aubrey Price Does anyone know of a compass that will replace the existing YAK52 compass. Mine is bad, but even a new one wouldn't be my first choice. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:24 AM PST US From: "Gus Fraser" Subject: RE: Yak-List: YAK 52 Compass --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" I take it you mean the mag compass ? I replaced mine as I fitted my angle of attack indicator in the standard location. I moved the compass location to the peak of the front canopy section on a bracket I fabricated. Gus -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Aubrey Price Subject: Yak-List: YAK 52 Compass --> Yak-List message posted by: Aubrey Price Does anyone know of a compass that will replace the existing YAK52 compass. Mine is bad, but even a new one wouldn't be my first choice. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:52 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Just curious Bruce who you bought the airplane from? Although they are not in Northern CA, Carl or Jill Hays in San Diego are a good bet to get it fixed. 858-292-7222 is their telephone number. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Campbell" Subject: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > I had to leave my YAK 52 in CIC during its ferry flight from HWD to > Arlington, WA. I live in WA. > > The prop started surging badly. No problem with oil press according to the > gauges. But the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the run way > (*very* careful power application, BTW). > > Does anyone know anyone local to Northern California that I could coordinate > with to get this thing flying again? > > Bruce Campbell > Yak 52 N82623 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gus Fraser" > To: > Subject: RE: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" > > > > I have a stock 52 electrical system. I do have some 12V devices I use a > > voltage converter which I got from aircraft spruce it is good for 4 amps > > which is good for most small appliances, cameras etc. If you need more > than > > that then get an ex military one they are about 200 bucks used. > > > > Gus > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of N13472@aol.com > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: N13472@aol.com > > > > For a home built / experimental I would defiantly go with a 24 Vdc system. > > The > > savings in weight / cost due to the smaller wire size is worth the effort. > > But the > > main reason is cost of used avionics, stobes, pumps, etc. As most home > > builder > > use 12 Vdc systems the demand for 24 Vdc equip is low, check the prices at > > the > > salvage yards. > > > > Tom Elliott > > N63727 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:25 AM PST US From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" Bruce; Have whatever mechanic you get check the tightness if all intake fittings including the carburetor. It may be as simple as needing to tighten things up. Frank N9110M -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell Subject: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" --> I had to leave my YAK 52 in CIC during its ferry flight from HWD to Arlington, WA. I live in WA. The prop started surging badly. No problem with oil press according to the gauges. But the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the run way (*very* careful power application, BTW). Does anyone know anyone local to Northern California that I could coordinate with to get this thing flying again? Bruce Campbell Yak 52 N82623 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gus Fraser" Subject: RE: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" > > I have a stock 52 electrical system. I do have some 12V devices I use > a voltage converter which I got from aircraft spruce it is good for 4 > amps which is good for most small appliances, cameras etc. If you need > more than > that then get an ex military one they are about 200 bucks used. > > Gus > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > N13472@aol.com > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: N13472@aol.com > > For a home built / experimental I would defiantly go with a 24 Vdc > system. The savings in weight / cost due to the smaller wire size is > worth the effort. But the > main reason is cost of used avionics, stobes, pumps, etc. As most home > builder > use 12 Vdc systems the demand for 24 Vdc equip is low, check the prices at > the > salvage yards. > > Tom Elliott > N63727 > > = == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:58 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Prop surging (..."the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the runway") is changes in prop pitch and is typically not caused by intake leaks Frank. With good oil pressure as Bruce states, I'd suggest the prop governor first. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" > > Bruce; > Have whatever mechanic you get check the tightness if all intake > fittings including the carburetor. It may be as simple as needing to > tighten things up. > Frank > N9110M > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > --> > > I had to leave my YAK 52 in CIC during its ferry flight from HWD to > Arlington, WA. I live in WA. > > The prop started surging badly. No problem with oil press according to > the gauges. But the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the run > way > (*very* careful power application, BTW). > > Does anyone know anyone local to Northern California that I could > coordinate with to get this thing flying again? > > Bruce Campbell > Yak 52 N82623 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gus Fraser" > To: > Subject: RE: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" > > > > I have a stock 52 electrical system. I do have some 12V devices I use > > a voltage converter which I got from aircraft spruce it is good for 4 > > amps which is good for most small appliances, cameras etc. If you need > > > more > than > > that then get an ex military one they are about 200 bucks used. > > > > Gus > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > > N13472@aol.com > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: N13472@aol.com > > > > For a home built / experimental I would defiantly go with a 24 Vdc > > system. The savings in weight / cost due to the smaller wire size is > > worth the effort. But the > > main reason is cost of used avionics, stobes, pumps, etc. As most home > > builder > > use 12 Vdc systems the demand for 24 Vdc equip is low, check the > prices at > > the > > salvage yards. > > > > Tom Elliott > > N63727 > > > > > > > > == > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > == > == > == > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:38 AM PST US From: KevLCo@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: YAK 52 Compass --> Yak-List message posted by: KevLCo@aol.com I haven't messed with mine, how do they go "bad"? Does it need swung, or do the magnets go dead? I've heard they go bad, just not why. Kevin Las Vegas ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:06 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Team Red From: Barry Hancock --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote: > Congradulations to Team Red (Bob Watts, Terry Calloway, > Roger Modglin) for an article on them in Nov. Pacific Flyer. > Good exposure for RPA type aircraft. > > Craig Payne And just imagine the exposure they will get when they perform at All Red Star next May! TC, this is your informal invitation.... :) Barry Hancock Director of Operations Red Stars, Inc. 949.300.5510 www.allredstar.com "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes" ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:03 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: There are TWO crazies amongst us??? From: Barry Hancock --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 11:58 PM, Bruce Campbell wrote: > My YAK and my Commander both use 24V. Just when I thought I had the corner on the Ted Smith/Pinko-commie-rat-bastard airplane design combination! Barry Hancock Director of Operations Red Stars, Inc. 949.300.5510 www.allredstar.com "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes" ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:55 AM PST US From: D Zeman Subject: Yak-List: Re: YAK 52 Compass --> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman If you are talking about the whiskey compass; one of mine eventually leaked away the fluid. Remove compass and open the back cover (two holes that tips of needle-nose pliers will fit into and screw out). Replace the o-ring (hardware store) and fill as much as you can before replacing back cover. Install back cover with new o-ring and then you will have to slowly fill with a syringe through the special screw hole in the back cover. Cheers, Z __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:17 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: YAK 52 Compass From: Boyd Braem --> Yak-List message posted by: Boyd Braem What kind of whiskey did you use to fill it? Does it matter? I think the original question concerned a remote compass and the flood gate detector in the tail--be careful when you irrigate. Boyd. do not archive On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 11:50 AM, D Zeman wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman > > If you are talking about the whiskey compass; one of > mine eventually leaked away the fluid. Remove compass > and open the back cover (two holes that tips of > needle-nose pliers will fit into and screw out). > Replace the o-ring (hardware store) and fill as much > as you can before replacing back cover. Install back > cover with new o-ring and then you will have to slowly > fill with a syringe through the special screw hole in > the back cover. > > Cheers, > Z > > __________________________________ > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:12 AM PST US From: "jay reiter" Subject: Yak-List: Compass Fluid --> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" The compass fluid we used at TWA was a refined kerosene type fluid. If the fluid is not correct it will cloud up or damage the lettering on the rotor. I do not know if that type is correct for these aircraft. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:43 AM PST US From: "Doug Sapp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Compass Fluid --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" Guys, It's called white kerosene. Most any instrument shop has it. Suppose you could use white lightning too but it would most likely eat the numbers off the compass, just think of what it does to your guts.............pass the jug Clem! "Still" Yakin in the back woods, Doug Sapp -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jay reiter Subject: Yak-List: Compass Fluid --> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" The compass fluid we used at TWA was a refined kerosene type fluid. If the fluid is not correct it will cloud up or damage the lettering on the rotor. I do not know if that type is correct for these aircraft. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:42 AM PST US From: "Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Re: YAK 52 Compass --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb" I have 17yr single malt thash gooood foorrr alll dishicultf prooblemsh... Sorry, couldn't resist! -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Boyd Braem Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: YAK 52 Compass --> Yak-List message posted by: Boyd Braem What kind of whiskey did you use to fill it? Does it matter? I think the original question concerned a remote compass and the flood gate detector in the tail--be careful when you irrigate. Boyd. do not archive On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 11:50 AM, D Zeman wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman > > If you are talking about the whiskey compass; one of > mine eventually leaked away the fluid. Remove compass > and open the back cover (two holes that tips of > needle-nose pliers will fit into and screw out). > Replace the o-ring (hardware store) and fill as much > as you can before replacing back cover. Install back > cover with new o-ring and then you will have to slowly > fill with a syringe through the special screw hole in > the back cover. > > Cheers, > Z > > __________________________________ > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:34 AM PST US From: "Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb" Does the governopr run on "normal" oil pressure or is there a separate pump? I recently dropped oil pressure (one of those minor Oh Sh.. moments when you have the choice of landing off airport & wrecking the plane (maybe) but saving the motor (maybe) or heading for nearest rwy, saving the plane (maybe) but wrecking the engine (maybe)) and was told after that the governor has a separate pump. Jorgen -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Subject: Re: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Prop surging (..."the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the runway") is changes in prop pitch and is typically not caused by intake leaks Frank. With good oil pressure as Bruce states, I'd suggest the prop governor first. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" > > Bruce; > Have whatever mechanic you get check the tightness if all intake > fittings including the carburetor. It may be as simple as needing to > tighten things up. > Frank > N9110M > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > --> > > I had to leave my YAK 52 in CIC during its ferry flight from HWD to > Arlington, WA. I live in WA. > > The prop started surging badly. No problem with oil press according to > the gauges. But the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the run > way > (*very* careful power application, BTW). > > Does anyone know anyone local to Northern California that I could > coordinate with to get this thing flying again? > > Bruce Campbell > Yak 52 N82623 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gus Fraser" > To: > Subject: RE: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" > > > > I have a stock 52 electrical system. I do have some 12V devices I use > > a voltage converter which I got from aircraft spruce it is good for 4 > > amps which is good for most small appliances, cameras etc. If you need > > > more > than > > that then get an ex military one they are about 200 bucks used. > > > > Gus > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > > N13472@aol.com > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: N13472@aol.com > > > > For a home built / experimental I would defiantly go with a 24 Vdc > > system. The savings in weight / cost due to the smaller wire size is > > worth the effort. But the > > main reason is cost of used avionics, stobes, pumps, etc. As most home > > builder > > use 12 Vdc systems the demand for 24 Vdc equip is low, check the > prices at > > the > > salvage yards. > > > > Tom Elliott > > N63727 > > > > > > > > == > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > == > == > == > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:52 PM PST US From: "Ron Davis" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Batteries (was: Alternators for the M14P) --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" A MiG 15 takes over 800 amps (24 volts) for about 30 seconds. Two Optima batteries in series will start it at least twice without any charging.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernie" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Batteries (was: Alternators for the M14P) > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" > > An L-29, has an electric starter which requires 200 AMPS @24V for the first > 5 seconds then 400 AMPS for an additional 8-12 seconds. > > Ernie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Davis" > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Batteries (was: Alternators for the M14P) > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" > > > > Keep in mind that many turbine planes (L-39 and Boeing 737, to name two) > > spin the turbine with an air motor instead of an electric one. They take > > little battery capacity for starting, like the CJ, and the battery needs > to > > be sized for reserve power. Both of the above have multiple generators, > so > > even that isn't a huge concern. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brian Lloyd" > > To: > > Subject: Yak-List: Batteries (was: Alternators for the M14P) > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > > > > > Ernie wrote: > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" > > > > > > > > I found out what you meant first hand this weekend while flying a a > > local > > > > airshow. My L-29 has 2 new 650 CCA Die Hards which on a good day will > > start > > > > me at around 690 Degrees EGT. While my buddy this weekend using the > > Hawkers > > > > consistently started some where around 560 degrees. I'm sold, just > > waiting > > > > for a battery box. > > > > > > Turbine engines need a *LOT* of current and need to keep the voltage > high > > to get the compressor RPM high enough to avoid a hot start. This means > you > > need batteries with very low internal resistance so the voltage doesn't > drop > > while spooling up the gas generator shaft. The original battery to have > > this kind of low resistance was NiCd but they are expensive and come with > > their own set of problems. AGM (absorbed glass mat) batteries, especially > > the newer ones with spiral-wound foil plates (they are cylindrical) have > > very low internal resistance and will produce huge amounts of current > while > > still keeping the voltage up, just the ticket for starting turbine > engines. > > > > > > Standard flooded-cell (wet) type batteries do not have low internal > > resistance unless you make them big so they would not be the best choice > for > > starting turbine engines. > > > > > > OTOH, battery capacity (total energy storage) depends on just how much > > lead and electrolyte you have. If you want the battery to provide power > for > > a long time after the generator has failed you need a bigger battery. > > > > > > The Yak-52 and CJ do not need much starting current since the compressed > > air system does the work. OTOH these are all-electric airplanes and if > you > > want things to keep running you need a lot of battery capacity. Frankly, > > gelled electrolyte batteries (gel-cells) are ideal for these aircraft. > The > > turbine-powered aircraft should not consider using anything except AGM > > batteries. > > > > > > The only issue with using any sealed battery, gel or AGM, is that you > must > > be careful to charge them properly. They will quickly die if they are > > overcharged. Hot weather or a hot battery will lead to overcharging and > > early battery death. This could be a real problem for our turbine-powered > > brethren. Conversely a cold battery will never be fully charged which > will > > also damage the battery in the long run. Flooded-cell batteries are much > > more resistant to damage from overcharging because you can add water to > > them. (And if you find you have to add water every couple of weeks or so, > > that means you are definitely overcharging.) Charging voltage needs to be > > adjusted downward when it is hot and upward when it is cold. That is why > > the B&C alternator controller/regulator has a temperature compensation > > option. It automatically adjusts the charging voltage to meet the needs > of > > the battery ensuring a full charge without overcharging. > > > > > > I have done a lot of battery research for my boat and for the back-up > > electrical system in my Comanche. (Electrical system failure while doing > > hard IFR tends to bother me.) I will be happy to share more info if > people > > are interested. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201 > > > brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802 > > > +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax > > > GMT-4 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:38 PM PST US From: "Doug Sapp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" >>was told after that the governor has a separate pump. You were lied to, they live off he same pump. Doug Sapp -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb Subject: RE: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb" Does the governopr run on "normal" oil pressure or is there a separate pump? I recently dropped oil pressure (one of those minor Oh Sh.. moments when you have the choice of landing off airport & wrecking the plane (maybe) but saving the motor (maybe) or heading for nearest rwy, saving the plane (maybe) but wrecking the engine (maybe)) and was told after that the governor has a separate pump. Jorgen -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Subject: Re: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Prop surging (..."the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the runway") is changes in prop pitch and is typically not caused by intake leaks Frank. With good oil pressure as Bruce states, I'd suggest the prop governor first. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" > > Bruce; > Have whatever mechanic you get check the tightness if all intake > fittings including the carburetor. It may be as simple as needing to > tighten things up. > Frank > N9110M > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > --> > > I had to leave my YAK 52 in CIC during its ferry flight from HWD to > Arlington, WA. I live in WA. > > The prop started surging badly. No problem with oil press according to > the gauges. But the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the run > way > (*very* careful power application, BTW). > > Does anyone know anyone local to Northern California that I could > coordinate with to get this thing flying again? > > Bruce Campbell > Yak 52 N82623 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gus Fraser" > To: > Subject: RE: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" > > > > I have a stock 52 electrical system. I do have some 12V devices I use > > a voltage converter which I got from aircraft spruce it is good for 4 > > amps which is good for most small appliances, cameras etc. If you need > > > more > than > > that then get an ex military one they are about 200 bucks used. > > > > Gus > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > > N13472@aol.com > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: N13472@aol.com > > > > For a home built / experimental I would defiantly go with a 24 Vdc > > system. The savings in weight / cost due to the smaller wire size is > > worth the effort. But the > > main reason is cost of used avionics, stobes, pumps, etc. As most home > > builder > > use 12 Vdc systems the demand for 24 Vdc equip is low, check the > prices at > > the > > salvage yards. > > > > Tom Elliott > > N63727 > > > > > > > > == > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > == > == > == > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:48 PM PST US From: "Jim Ivey" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Compass Fluid --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Ivey" Always used unscented lamp oil like you find in the plastic jug at Wal Mart. It is basically the same think as white kerosene. I always fill a large open container (bowl, pitcher etc...) with the fluid and fully submerse the compass, rocking it back and forth to remove all air bubbles. I then insert the plug while still submersed in the fluid. Works pretty good and no bubble at the top of the compass when you're done. If you fly the tropics much you could use the citronella-scented oil to try and keep the 'skeeters away. The new SIRS series compasses that are now available use a silicon-based fluid that dampens much better than kerosene. Don't know what the specs are on the fluid but the SIRS compass I put in my Comanche is as solid as a DG and has no deviation whatsoever. There is a no-maintenance guarantee on them too. I will replace all traditional compasses with an SIRS the next time each needs rebuilding. It's about time somebody brought the 50-year old compass designs into the modern realm. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jay reiter > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 12:07 PM > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Compass Fluid > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" > > The compass fluid we used at TWA was a refined kerosene type > fluid. If the fluid is not correct it will cloud up or damage > the lettering on the rotor. I do not know if that type is > correct for these aircraft. > > > =========== > ============ > Matronics Forums. > ============ > ============ > ============ > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:26 PM PST US From: "jay reiter" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" Remember the governor is a pump and a control valve supplying boosted oil pressure to control the prop. That could be confusing with out a full explanation. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:25 PM PST US From: "Gus Fraser" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" I agree check that the governor adjustment screw is tight it is one of the things that is not wire locked. Could also be the seals in the prop that are leaking. If you want to inspect these then get back to the list for the removal procedure as it is real easy to damage the oil snout. Gus -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese Subject: Re: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Prop surging (..."the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the runway") is changes in prop pitch and is typically not caused by intake leaks Frank. With good oil pressure as Bruce states, I'd suggest the prop governor first. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" > > Bruce; > Have whatever mechanic you get check the tightness if all intake > fittings including the carburetor. It may be as simple as needing to > tighten things up. > Frank > N9110M > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > --> > > I had to leave my YAK 52 in CIC during its ferry flight from HWD to > Arlington, WA. I live in WA. > > The prop started surging badly. No problem with oil press according to > the gauges. But the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the run > way > (*very* careful power application, BTW). > > Does anyone know anyone local to Northern California that I could > coordinate with to get this thing flying again? > > Bruce Campbell > Yak 52 N82623 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gus Fraser" > To: > Subject: RE: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" > > > > I have a stock 52 electrical system. I do have some 12V devices I use > > a voltage converter which I got from aircraft spruce it is good for 4 > > amps which is good for most small appliances, cameras etc. If you need > > > more > than > > that then get an ex military one they are about 200 bucks used. > > > > Gus > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > > N13472@aol.com > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: N13472@aol.com > > > > For a home built / experimental I would defiantly go with a 24 Vdc > > system. The savings in weight / cost due to the smaller wire size is > > worth the effort. But the > > main reason is cost of used avionics, stobes, pumps, etc. As most home > > builder > > use 12 Vdc systems the demand for 24 Vdc equip is low, check the > prices at > > the > > salvage yards. > > > > Tom Elliott > > N63727 > > > > > > > > == > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > == > == > == > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:31 PM PST US From: "Jim Duffy" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Duffy" I would have them check the prop governor screen on the right front of the engine it is easy to get to and easy to take out and clean in some solvent, if clogged it will cause this. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Campbell" Subject: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > I had to leave my YAK 52 in CIC during its ferry flight from HWD to > Arlington, WA. I live in WA. > > The prop started surging badly. No problem with oil press according to the > gauges. But the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the run way > (*very* careful power application, BTW). > > Does anyone know anyone local to Northern California that I could coordinate > with to get this thing flying again? > > Bruce Campbell > Yak 52 N82623 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gus Fraser" > To: > Subject: RE: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" > > > > I have a stock 52 electrical system. I do have some 12V devices I use a > > voltage converter which I got from aircraft spruce it is good for 4 amps > > which is good for most small appliances, cameras etc. If you need more > than > > that then get an ex military one they are about 200 bucks used. > > > > Gus > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of N13472@aol.com > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: N13472@aol.com > > > > For a home built / experimental I would defiantly go with a 24 Vdc system. > > The > > savings in weight / cost due to the smaller wire size is worth the effort. > > But the > > main reason is cost of used avionics, stobes, pumps, etc. As most home > > builder > > use 12 Vdc systems the demand for 24 Vdc equip is low, check the prices at > > the > > salvage yards. > > > > Tom Elliott > > N63727 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:20 PM PST US From: "Walt Lannon" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" The governor is a combined boost oil pump and fly-weight governor. The pump boosts engine oil pressure to approx. 150 psi for prop operation. The fly-weights position a spool type pilot valve to direct the oil flow to or from the propellor. (simple single acting type as used in the Yak 52 and CJ6) The RPM adjusting screw will have no bearing on the problem. It is only for fine tuning the take-off RPM setting. For the CJ one turn is about 15 RPM. The 52 should be about 20 to 25 per turn. Possible (but unlikely) gov. problems ----- 1. Internal failure - check prop oil filter on RH side of nose case for any contamination. 2. Sticking pilot valve due to contamination or damage. 3. Worn out or damaged pilot valve bearing 4. Worn out pump or press. relief valve leaking If you feel it is a governor problem take it to propellor shop for teardown & inspection. Walt > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" > > > >>was told after that the governor has a separate pump. > > You were lied to, they live off he same pump. > > Doug Sapp > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb" > > > Does the governopr run on "normal" oil pressure or is there a separate pump? > > I recently dropped oil pressure (one of those minor Oh Sh.. moments when you > have the choice of landing off airport & wrecking the plane (maybe) but > saving the motor (maybe) or heading for nearest rwy, saving the plane > (maybe) but wrecking the engine (maybe)) and was told after that the > governor has a separate pump. > Jorgen > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > Prop surging (..."the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the > runway") is changes in prop pitch and is typically not caused by intake > leaks Frank. With good oil pressure as Bruce states, I'd suggest the prop > governor first. > Dennis > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Frank Haertlein" > To: > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" > > > > > Bruce; > > Have whatever mechanic you get check the tightness if all intake > > fittings including the carburetor. It may be as simple as needing to > > tighten things up. > > Frank > > N9110M > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Yak-List: Recommended Yak mech for a stranded Yak in Chico. > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" > > --> > > > > I had to leave my YAK 52 in CIC during its ferry flight from HWD to > > Arlington, WA. I live in WA. > > > > The prop started surging badly. No problem with oil press according to > > the gauges. But the surging was so bad the plane settled back on the run > > way > > (*very* careful power application, BTW). > > > > Does anyone know anyone local to Northern California that I could > > coordinate with to get this thing flying again? > > > > Bruce Campbell > > Yak 52 N82623 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gus Fraser" > > To: > > Subject: RE: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" > > > > > > I have a stock 52 electrical system. I do have some 12V devices I use > > > a voltage converter which I got from aircraft spruce it is good for 4 > > > amps which is good for most small appliances, cameras etc. If you need > > > > > more > > than > > > that then get an ex military one they are about 200 bucks used. > > > > > > Gus > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > > > N13472@aol.com > > > To: yak-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: 12 or 24 ? > > > > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: N13472@aol.com > > > > > > For a home built / experimental I would defiantly go with a 24 Vdc > > > system. The savings in weight / cost due to the smaller wire size is > > > worth the effort. But the > > > main reason is cost of used avionics, stobes, pumps, etc. As most home > > > builder > > > use 12 Vdc systems the demand for 24 Vdc equip is low, check the > > prices at > > > the > > > salvage yards. > > > > > > Tom Elliott > > > N63727 > > > > > > > > > > > > > == > > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > == > > == > > == > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:58 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb wrote: > reaches charge, the current reduces to float. If you dont have power in the > hangar use a solar panel or 2 in series for 24V. Actually, once the lead-acid battery reaches full charge you need to drop the *voltage* to a float level. This voltage is selected so that the battery neither charges nor discharges and it varies with temperature. The really good chargers for lead-acid batteries charge in three stages: 1. constant current in order to put back about 80% of the charge and this switches to; 2. constant voltage at the absorption level, typically about 14.6V (29.2V) for a fixed amount of time and then; 3. drops to a float voltage of around 13.2V (26.4V). These numbers vary depending on battery type; i.e. flooded cell, AGM, or gel; and they vary with temperature. > This is the same problem yachties have, good info on the web. Most of what I have found on the web posted by so-called experts for yachties has just been flat-out wrong. Go read the manufacturer's data. For sealed AGM/Gel batteries the Deka on-line technical manual is really useful reading. See: http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/products/pdfs/0139.pdf. I have also found Ample Power to have good information as well. They make smart regulators and battery chargers for boats and RVs. Their stuff is designed to rapidly charge a battery without damaging it so you get the maximum number of cycles from the battery. > When choosing a battery work out the total drain (e.g. xsponder + comm) in > Amp hours, multiply by how many hours you want, double it and thats what > size battery you need. E.g. 1.5AH X 3 hours + 4.5AH, you need a 9AH > battery. You will never get all 9AH out of it and shouldn't discharge > totally anyway, plus you get a bit of reserve. Battery manufacturers will specify the battery capacity at different discharge rates. As the current draw increases the battery capacity decreases. So you need to figure out the current and the time but then you need to refer to the battery manufacturer's specs. Remember, aircraft use is not the same as deep-cycle energy storage use (like boats and houses with solar PV panels). In the case of an airplane, the alternator is not likely to fail often so the discharge may be 100% since the battery will very seldom be required to perform this task. Doubling the capacity of the battery is overkill. Figuring out the right battery size and then adding 20% in order to accommodate the battery's decrease in capacity with time makes more sense. -- Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201 brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802 +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax GMT-4 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:24 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Yak-List: Re:batteries --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Jim Griffin wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" > > I wonder why the battery states it should be charged at one to two amps on a > charger? What you say is true for a topped off battery but I don't think > your battery life will be long if you run it down for whatever reason and > hit it with 50 amps over and over. The smaller batteries have higher internal resistance and hence are self-limiting on current when being charged in a typical constant-voltage charging system like an aircraft or automobile electrical system. Your statement above sounds like it is applicable to constant-current type chargers. As for battery life, the depth of discharge is critical. The kinds of starting batteries we tend to use have very poor life if fully discharged. Four or five complete discharges may destroy a starting battery. Here is an example of life vs charge cycles for the AGM batteries I use on the boat: (From the East Penn [Deka] Battery Company at http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/products/pdfs/0139.pdf) Typical* VRLA Battery Cycling Ability vs. Depth of Discharge Typical Life Cycles Capacity Withdrawn Gel AGM 100% 300 150 80% 390 200 50% 650 370 25% 1500 925 10% 3800 3100 As you see, the less you take out, the longer the battery will last. -- Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201 brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802 +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax GMT-4