Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:56 AM - Re: Re: Ownership advice (Brian Lloyd)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: Extraction system (Ernest Martinez)
3. 05:00 AM - Re: Re: Ownership advice (AIRRAP@aol.com)
4. 05:29 AM - Re: Re: Ownership advice (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 06:19 AM - Re: extraction seats (Richard Basiliere)
6. 06:22 AM - Re: extraction seats (Richard Basiliere)
7. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Ownership advice (KevLCo@aol.com)
8. 08:52 AM - Re: Extraction system (Ernest Martinez)
9. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Ownership advice (Brian Lloyd)
10. 09:14 AM - FW: December 17, 2003 Centinial of Powered Flight (Doug Sapp)
11. 09:40 AM - recurring training for CJs in the Virgin Islands (Brian Lloyd)
12. 05:38 PM - Anybody want a CJ? (Robert Starnes)
13. 08:40 PM - Re: Florida CJs (Michael Di Marco)
14. 08:57 PM - Re: Pressure chart (Michael Di Marco)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Ownership advice |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Barry Hancock wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>
> Hey Kendel, welcome to the wonderful world of Red Star aviation!
>
> Brian Lloyd must be unplugged because I'm sure he'll break it down as he
> sees it.
Actually, I waited to see how others would respond. I think that you and others
have done an excellent job and have represented both aircraft very well. I
didn't feel a need to jump in and say the same thing over again.
> Kendel, the best thing I think you can do is take a look at your
> expected type of flying and by the airplane that is going to give you
> the most satisfaction most of the time.
>
> Both the CJ and the -52 have their pros and cons. However, if you are
> planning to do a fair amount of X/C flying it might be worth your while
> to take a long hard look at the CJ. Either way, transitioning from a
> C172 is very doable, but should be approached with a professional
> attitude...which means taking the time and paying the money to get
> thorough training. Please send us the video of your first time taxiing
> the airplane! :)
>
> My schpeel to every prospective owner goes something like this:
>
> Both airplanes are wonderful trainers...built for two different
> purposes. The CJ was built as a military trainer, the Yak was built as
> an aerobatic trainer that served a military purpose. The Yak is a
> better aerobatic airplane and because of the design compromises is not
> nearly as comfortable a cross-country machine. Because the -52 is built
> for aerobatics it is less stable....great for aerobatics, not so good
> for cross country, especially if you plan on doing an IFR at any point.
> Because of this I also find the CJ more enjoyable for formation flying,
> but that's just me. The cockpits are smaller in the Yak-52. It has
> much shorter range and is much (25 knots +/-) slower in cruise. Climb
> performance in the -52 is better than the stock CJ, but an upgrade to an
> M14P and that difference is washed away. Basically, if you want to yank
> and bank and do a bunch of local flying the Yak is a better airplane.
> If you want to do basic aerobatics, fly cross country at a reasonable
> pace with reasonable range, and have good resale value, the CJ is
> probably a better choice.
>
> Support for both airplanes is excellent for now, so that's not a concern.
>
> My advice is to take a hard look at the type of flying you want to do,
> which it looks like you have, and then *fly* both airplanes. I'm sure
> there are both types close to where you are and most of us are more than
> happy to tell you what great airplanes we fly and give you a ride to
> decide for yourself. In addition to that talk to as many in the
> community as you can. Nothing beats a good education *before* you
> buy....
>
> Either way you're entering what most of us feel is the most enjoyable
> warbird community in the country!
Well said. I couldn't have done better. Grasshopper, you show wisdom.
> Cheers,
>
> Barry
> Barry Hancock
> Director of Operations
> Red Stars, Inc.
> 949.300.5510
> www.allredstar.com
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 2
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| Subject: | Extraction system |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Maintenance and certification can be an issue. Plus since I don't have
the benefit of having a military ground crew full time taking care of my
airplane, I'd rather not be sitting on a loaded canon all the time.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
fraseg@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Extraction system
--> Yak-List message posted by: fraseg@comcast.net
Apart from the fact that they will cost you more than the aircraft PER
SEAT. Why not just get new seats from Czech ?
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 11/14/2003 5:06:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> ernest.martinez@oracle.com writes:
> Has anyone got the poop on how the ejection/extraction seats work on
the
> new Sukois??? I was wondering if I could retrofit them to my L-29. If
> possible, does anyone know of the price, and where to get them??
> I flew with one in a supped up L-29 in CA. last year. The system is
an
> extraction system. The chute is blasted out of the airplane. At the
same time
> a
> telescoping pole is erected at a slight angle to one side, (the back
seat pole
> goes to the opposite side),
> The chute deploys and opens, pulling the unfortunate pilot up along
the pole.
> The sequence pictures I saw, showed the pilot's just clearing the
pole, the
> chute was fully blossomed and all were clearing the tail section.
>
> It was a maintenance free compared to all other seats I've ever been
around.
> I was told the charge that blasted out the chute only needed to be
change
> every two year or so with just checking and cleaning plugs and such
yearly. It
> was rated to 200 feet while in inverted flight!!!!
>
> This system is very easy on the spine but I was told the price tag was
like
> $30,000. DO NOT QUOTE ME THERE.
>
> I thought system was quite neat and worth while for any airplane it
would fit
> in. I don't think one would fit in my CJ-6 unfortunately.
>
> Jim Goolsby
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
> deserve neither liberty nor safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
> "With my shield, or on it"
> Trojan Warriors BC
> "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like
grapes
> until some woman stomps all over them."
> Unknown older man.
>
>
>
>
>
>
=
==
==
==
==
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Ownership advice |
--> Yak-List message posted by: AIRRAP@aol.com
Folks,
How does one go about finding an instructor for a CJ? I'm in North Carolina`
Eric
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Ownership advice |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Richard Hess is a CFI with experience in both the CJ and YAK 52. He is
located in GA and his email address is hess737@aol.com. Highly recommended.
Wait until you see his BRAND NEW CJ6G!
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <AIRRAP@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Ownership advice
> --> Yak-List message posted by: AIRRAP@aol.com
>
> Folks,
> How does one go about finding an instructor for a CJ? I'm in North
Carolina`
> Eric
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: extraction seats |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
They work well - if you use them. Dude, can't remember his name,
augered in at Telluride,CO a SU-26 a couple of summers ago. (Bad deal,
long story...don't do akro below altitude!) NTSB, Boris Rakitin (sp?),
and I looked at the video over and over. Never could figure out why he
didn't eject. BTW, seat was a haz-mat nightmare after...because of the
undetonated explosives in the wreckage.
Respectfully, Rick
>>> radialpower@cox.net 11/15/2003 12:27:10 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
I'm going to bed, but just thought I'd throw this in...
Extraction seats are very cool and work extremely well. Steve Kalmar
is
the US rep for them. He helped me finish up my CJ project and is very
meticulous. We looked at putting them in the CJ and they will not
fit...if you redesigned the canopy to make it a side hinge, blown one
piece it would work great. As it stands now, the front windscreen
frame
would rip your legs off at the knees....
As for new L-29 seats, the extraction seats actually have better
parameters for the ejection envelope...and you don't have to throw away
your back after you punch out....
B
Barry Hancock
Director of Operations
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: extraction seats |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Meant to say, akro below PATTERN ALTITUDE
>>> BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us 11/15/2003 7:18:44 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere"
<BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
They work well - if you use them. Dude, can't remember his name,
augered in at Telluride,CO a SU-26 a couple of summers ago. (Bad deal,
long story...don't do akro below altitude!) NTSB, Boris Rakitin (sp?),
and I looked at the video over and over. Never could figure out why
he
didn't eject. BTW, seat was a haz-mat nightmare after...because of
the
undetonated explosives in the wreckage.
Respectfully, Rick
>>> radialpower@cox.net 11/15/2003 12:27:10 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
I'm going to bed, but just thought I'd throw this in...
Extraction seats are very cool and work extremely well. Steve Kalmar
is
the US rep for them. He helped me finish up my CJ project and is very
meticulous. We looked at putting them in the CJ and they will not
fit...if you redesigned the canopy to make it a side hinge, blown one
piece it would work great. As it stands now, the front windscreen
frame
would rip your legs off at the knees....
As for new L-29 seats, the extraction seats actually have better
parameters for the ejection envelope...and you don't have to throw
away
your back after you punch out....
B
Barry Hancock
Director of Operations
Red Stars, Inc.
949.300.5510
www.allredstar.com
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Ownership advice |
--> Yak-List message posted by: KevLCo@aol.com
I'd have to second that recommendation, my co-pilot thirds it~ Richard Hess
gave us our initial training in our new Yak 52 in Atlanta. Very thorough, the
consummate professional, and he'll push you until you find new skills you
didn't know were buried inside. Two thumbs up from Las Vegas~
Kevin Cost
Las Vegas
N152YK
Message 8
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| Subject: | Extraction system |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Thanks,
That was most informative, but at $30k, I'll jump over the side :)
But I shouldn't have gone to that site, I now want a Yak-18T, anyone
want to trade one for a nice CJ with tons of spares including a 0 time
motor??
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
johnhilterman1@cox.net
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Extraction system
--> Yak-List message posted by: <johnhilterman1@cox.net>
Check out Richard Goode's website at
http://www.russianaeros.com/Default.htm
He has very detailed info on the Sukhoi extraction system.
Hitman
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Subject: Yak-List: Extraction system
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez"
<ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Has anyone got the poop on how the ejection/extraction seats work on the
new Sukois??? I was wondering if I could retrofit them to my L-29. If
possible, does anyone know of the price, and where to get them??
Ernie
=
==
==
==
==
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Ownership advice |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
AIRRAP@aol.com wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: AIRRAP@aol.com
>
> Folks,
> How does one go about finding an instructor for a CJ? I'm in North Carolina`
I am a CFI qualified in the CJ and acceptable to the insurance companies but I
am down in the Virgin Islands. If you can't get anyone else I would be willing
to fly up and give instruction in your aircraft but you would have to cover
my expenses as well as my hourly charges.
There are several qualified CFIs around. Mike McCoy of Yakity Yaks in Ohio does
a good job but I don't think he likes to train people in airplanes he doesn't
sell. I am not sure who else to recommend. Hopefully someone else will respond.
If you can wait a couple of weeks, I plan to fly my Comanche to DC for the Christmas
Holiday (around Dec 10, WX permitting). I will be passing through your
neck of the woods I would eat the travel costs in that case. That might be something
to consider.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 10
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| Subject: | FW: December 17, 2003 Centinial of Powered Flight |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Caruso [mailto:t-caruso@msn.com]
Subject: December 17, 2003 Centinial of Powered Flight
FYI
This information was released on 11-14-03 by Elissa Lines (
elines@museumofflight.org )
Please read this very important invitation and forward it to others!
Wednesday, December 17th is the Centennial of Flight. People around the
world will celebrate. In Kitty Hawk, they will launch a Wright Flyer. And
here, in Seattle, we will launch a Centennial Parade of Aircraft!
Before the details, let me inspire you! Eddie Rickenbacker stated that
aviation is proof that given the will, we have the capacity to achieve the
impossible!
With that in mind, we invite you to join us for one (or both) of the
following events that will focus everyones eyes to the skies the afternoon
of December 17th throughout this region.
A static display of stunning aircraft from every era positioned at or around
The Museum of Flight. Aircraft will be viewable by the general public
visiting the museums or perusing the Museums parking lot.
Centennial Parade of Aircraft grouped by speed, following each other in
trail, four groups of aircraft taking off from Boeing Field to fly a defined
route. The furthest northern point will be Edmonds with the southernmost
site being Tacoma. The Air Parade will terminate over the north end of
Vashon Island, with pilots returning to their home airport. The Air Parade
will start at noon. Kenmore Air will bring up the rear. The four airspeed
groups are: 70 knots, 95 knots, 130 knots and 160 knots. The goal is to have
5 20 aircraft in each group with the number of groupings in each speed
class dependent upon the sign-ups and the light of day! The parade will
conclude with enough time for all pilots to return to home base prior to
sundown.
Those interested in flying must indicate their intention to participate and
attend the briefing set for the day of the event.
A preliminary briefing will be held at the Museum of Flight on Saturday
November 22 at 9 am. More details will be available at that time. If you
wish to participate, please join us at the coordinating meeting on:
Saturday, November 22, 2003 at The Museum of Flight 9:00 AM
Please bring with you or email in advance, the following information:
Name, phone number, email address
Home airport (where you will return to after the event.)
The make and type of the aircraft you will fly.
Speed group the speed at which you will fly the entire route
70 kts ____
95 kts ____
130 kts ____
160 kts ____
The following are requirements for participation:
Your airplane must have a VHF radio to participate.
You should attend the November 22nd preliminary briefing at 9:00 AM.
You must submit the information listed above not later than Nov 22 to
elines@museumofflight.org
who will collect the information for the coordinating team.
Forms will be available at the preliminary briefing on the 22nd.
You and your airplane must be at Boeing Field by 9:00 AM on December 17th
for a
9:30 AM Centennial Parade briefing.
This will be a fun, safe and very visual way to celebrate the freedom and
excitement of flight. Hope to see you on November 22nd.
Message 11
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| Subject: | recurring training for CJs in the Virgin Islands |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Several people and I are planning to start a flying club on St. Thomas. I would
entertain offering new and recurring pilot training in the CJ6A down here in
the Virgin Islands. How many people would be willing to come down here to do
their training if I can provide an aircraft? Bring your significant other for
a lovely Caribbean vacation and get your CJ6A flying skills tuned up!
I am serious about this and would really like some feedback as to whether anyone
would consider using such a service.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 12
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| Subject: | Anybody want a CJ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
If you know of anyone who wants to acquire a CJ please
have them Email me, we have delivery positions for
airplanes available late Dec. or early January. We
will also be offering Maintenance and Restoration
services in Atlanta now that I have finished building
a paint facility.
- Robert Starnes, Flight Maintenance, Inc.
1-866-376-4720 Toll Free
__________________________________
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Michael Di Marco <cj6a_chinablue@yahoo.com>
Kissimmee, FL (KISM) too.
Mike in
Petrel 61CJ
407-348-4798
ByronMFox@aol.com wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
Do we have any members who fly CJs any where near the Fort Walton
Beach/Niceville area of the Florida panhandle? Thanks, Blitz
Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
Home 415-380-0907
Cell 415-307-2405
Fax 415-380-0917
---------------------------------
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Pressure chart |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Michael Di Marco <cj6a_chinablue@yahoo.com>
A belated thank you for the chart and if anyone took notice you don't want to apply
the "squared" rule to a Housai. Anyone really flying 2000 RPM with 550mm
MAP? Also, that guy who first flew across the Atlantic would disagree about
the squared rule since running the engine behind the prop is how he made it across.
The slower the engine turns the less fuel it burns.
Check your engine makers charts for operating recommendations.
Mike
China Blue
Ernie <ernest.martinez@oracle.com> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie"
I found this site when trying to convert my cabin pressure altitude from kg/cm
sq. This is handy chart for a quick MAP conversions.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/25_462.html
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