Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:30 AM - Re: Mooney (Gus Fraser)
2. 06:04 AM - Mooney (cpayne@joimail.com)
3. 08:59 AM - National Warbird Operator Conference (Tom Johnson)
4. 09:00 AM - National Warbird Operator Conference Feb 29 to 29, 2004, Oklahoma City. (Tom Johnson)
5. 01:02 PM - Re: Mooney (Jorgen Nielsen)
6. 02:41 PM - Really Nice Comments... (Matt Dralle)
7. 04:11 PM - Completely off topic, but... (E R)
8. 04:52 PM - Re: Alternators for the M14P (Ron)
9. 05:06 PM - Re: Mooney (cjpilot710@aol.com)
10. 07:53 PM - Blitz, (FOUGAPILOT@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Forget the Mooney, stay FSU, get an IAR 823 As fast as a mooney with an
1600lb useful load and it has a useful G loading.
Oh and about half the cost.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
Subject: Yak-List: Mooney
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around. The Yak remains
as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown one previously, any info (off
list) would be appreciated. Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed
mods are best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under
consideration is mainly the M20F.
Thanks
Jorgen
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com
Jorgen,
There is this airport in Southern Wisconsin at a resort that
has an asphalt runway built up higher over the grass taxiway
portion...looks deceptively smooth. All along the transition
area from grass to runway are lines of prop nicks on the
asphalt edge: "Mooney Marks".
Those "Bananas" can be flown just as economically as the
Mooney. It's just that the owners never pull back on the
"money knob" to get an economical cruise.
Good Luck,
Craig Payne
> Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around.
> The Yak remains as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown
> one previously, any info (off list) would be appreciated.
> Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed mods are
> best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under
> consideration is mainly the M20F.
>
> Thanks
> Jorgen
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=GENERATOR>
Jorgen,
There is this airport in Southern Wisconsin at a resort that has an asphalt
runway built up higher over the grass taxiway portion...looks deceptively
smooth. All along the transition area from grass to runway are lines of prop
nicks on the asphalt edge: "Mooney Marks".
Those "Bananas" can be flown just as economically as the Mooney. It's
just that the owners never pull back on the "money knob" to get an economical
cruise.
Good Luck,
Craig Payne
Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around.
The Yak remains as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown
one previously, any info (off list) would be appreciated.
Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed mods are
best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under
consideration is mainly the M20F.
Thanks
Jorgen
Message 3
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| Subject: | National Warbird Operator Conference |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
Friends:
You asked last year to have a great presence at the National Warbird Operator Conference.
Last year the Yak / CJ's were lumped in the "Other" category with those Liaison
type aircraft.
It was not acceptable.
I have just secured an agreement to have a complete breakout session for Yak /
CJs at NWOC 2004
Please visit the website for basic details, more information will be available
shortly.
**********************************
Thomas Johnson
Senior Account Executive
1983 Yak 52
Tel: 800-851-2997
Fax: 480-951-1455
Cell: 602-628-2701
E: tjohnson@cannonaviation.com
ADDRESS CHANGE: New Suite # is 204
Message 4
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| Subject: | National Warbird Operator Conference Feb 29 to 29, 2004, Oklahoma |
City.
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
Friends:
MARK YOUR CALENDARS February 26 to 29, 2004, NWOC, Oklahoma City, OK.
You asked last year to have a great presence at the National Warbird Operator Conference.
Last year the Yak / CJ's were lumped in the "Other" category with those Liaison
type aircraft.
It was not acceptable.
I have just secured an agreement to have a complete breakout session for Yak /
CJs at NWOC 2004
Please visit the website for basic details, more information will be available
shortly.
http://www.warbirdconference.com/
This a great conference with specific focus on our type aircraft.
I'm glad to discuss additional details with anyone interested.
We NEED to have some good representation by our Yaks / CJs.
We NEED to show that our group is a large force to be reckoned with in the warbird
community.
If you went last year in Phoenix, you'll agree it was more informative than you
thought.
Tom Johnson
**********************************
Thomas Johnson
Senior Account Executive
1983 Yak 52 (with -TW envy)
Tel: 800-851-2997
Fax: 480-951-1455
Cell: 602-628-2701
E: tjohnson@cannonaviation.com
ADDRESS CHANGE: New Suite # is 204
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Craig, Gus, Doug, Robert & anyone else I may have missed
Thanks for your replies re the Mooney considerations, both to help with
pre-purchase and alternatives.
Regarding other aircraft, we do not have the sheer numbers & variety you
guys enjoy in the USA. I can find great aircraft via the net that I would
purchase in the USA, but it is a problem to get them to South Africa (where
I live), adding substantially to the cost, with either a disassembly,
crating and shipping or a ferry. Plus of course the concern that should
something break in the middle of Africa on ferry then one is stuck there
with no spares easily available. Aircraft here tend to be more expensive
(sometimes much more) than in the states.
BTW, what is a "banana"?
Regards
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Mooney
--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com
Jorgen,
There is this airport in Southern Wisconsin at a resort that
has an asphalt runway built up higher over the grass taxiway
portion...looks deceptively smooth. All along the transition
area from grass to runway are lines of prop nicks on the
asphalt edge: "Mooney Marks".
Those "Bananas" can be flown just as economically as the
Mooney. It's just that the owners never pull back on the
"money knob" to get an economical cruise.
Good Luck,
Craig Payne
> Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around.
> The Yak remains as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown
> one previously, any info (off list) would be appreciated.
> Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed mods are
> best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under
> consideration is mainly the M20F.
>
> Thanks
> Jorgen
Message 6
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| Subject: | Really Nice Comments... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
We're nearing the end of this year's List Fund Raiser and I wanted to share
some of the really nice comments members have been making about the Lists
and what the Lists mean to them. Please take a moment to read over some of
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If you haven't taken a moment to show your support for the operation and
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Please make your contribution today and, in one small, way fight off the
every increasing commercialism creep that is taking over the Internet!! :-)
The SSL Secure web site for making your List Contribution can be found here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you to everyone that has already showed their support for the List!!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
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Your Lists continue to educate, amuse, sometimes annoy, and mostly
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http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Completely off topic, but... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: E R <jogggles@yahoo.com>
This is completely off-topic, so I hesitate to send this out, but I have an immediate
and critical need for legal advice in the Los Angeles area (dealing with
a landlord/tenant issue.)
My appologies for using this list for this purpose, but I wanted to reach out to
my established resources for help before letting my fingers do the walking through
pages and Yellow Pages full of strangers.
If you can assist, my off-list email contact is Girlypilot@yahoo.com.
Thanks to all (again, so sorry, but the need is severe)
Elizabeth
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Alternators for the M14P |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
NiCad's memory effect gets a lot of publicity, I condsider their biggest
problem to be self-discharge. A fully charged NiCad, left unattended is
pretty much useless after 60 days. This is not true of a lead acid or NiMH.
Why do handheld "emergency radios" always come with NICads? If you put
alkaline batteries in your handheld it and don't touch it for two years, it
will still work fine in an emergency.
NiCads also hold nearly full voltage until the end. This is good for some
applications, but lousy for an emergency flashlight. Fading out is better
in this case.
NiCads are very good for very few things. Fortunately, they have been
surpassed by NiMH technology.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
<jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> Hi Brian
>
> Points you made below re chargers noted & agreed.
>
> 2 comments: Without getting real fancy in terms of sophisticated
chargers,
> I have found that by using a cheap conservatily sized charger, either
solar
> panel or powered, AND verifying current flow with ammeter at different
> states of charge, you can work out a compromise that will replenish charge
> and will not cook the battery if left on. The downside is of course
risking
> not getting the battery up to full charge if depleted.
>
> The original post was related to an in aircraft battery install, with no
> alternator, to power xsponder & comm for limited period, for relatively
> infrequent (weekly?) flights. Hence the recomendation to size at double
the
> actual AH requirement, so as not to deep discharge each time, shortening
> battery life & risking a no-comms situation. Agreed with on board
charging
> this would be overkill.
>
> Also agreed on flat-out wrong info on web, one has to filter carefully -
the
> most common misconception I have seen being the hyped up and overstated
> memory effect problem with nicads in general.
>
> Regards
> Jorgen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb wrote:
> > reaches charge, the current reduces to float. If you dont have power in
> the
> > hangar use a solar panel or 2 in series for 24V.
>
> Actually, once the lead-acid battery reaches full charge you need to drop
> the *voltage* to a float level. This voltage is selected so that the
> battery neither charges nor discharges and it varies with temperature.
The
> really good chargers for lead-acid batteries charge in three stages:
>
> 1. constant current in order to put back about 80% of the charge and this
> switches to;
> 2. constant voltage at the absorption level, typically about 14.6V
(29.2V)
> for a fixed amount of time and then;
> 3. drops to a float voltage of around 13.2V (26.4V).
>
> These numbers vary depending on battery type; i.e. flooded cell, AGM, or
> gel; and they vary with temperature.
>
> > This is the same problem yachties have, good info on the web.
>
> Most of what I have found on the web posted by so-called experts for
> yachties has just been flat-out wrong. Go read the manufacturer's data.
> For sealed AGM/Gel batteries the Deka on-line technical manual is really
> useful reading. See: http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/products/pdfs/0139.pdf.
>
> I have also found Ample Power to have good information as well. They make
> smart regulators and battery chargers for boats and RVs. Their stuff is
> designed to rapidly charge a battery without damaging it so you get the
> maximum number of cycles from the battery.
>
> > When choosing a battery work out the total drain (e.g. xsponder + comm)
in
> > Amp hours, multiply by how many hours you want, double it and thats what
> > size battery you need. E.g. 1.5AH X 3 hours + 4.5AH, you need a 9AH
> > battery. You will never get all 9AH out of it and shouldn't discharge
> > totally anyway, plus you get a bit of reserve.
>
> Battery manufacturers will specify the battery capacity at different
> discharge rates. As the current draw increases the battery capacity
> decreases. So you need to figure out the current and the time but then
you
> need to refer to the battery manufacturer's specs. Remember, aircraft use
> is not the same as deep-cycle energy storage use (like boats and houses
with
> solar PV panels).
>
> In the case of an airplane, the alternator is not likely to fail often so
> the discharge may be 100% since the battery will very seldom be required
to
> perform this task. Doubling the capacity of the battery is overkill.
> Figuring out the right battery size and then adding 20% in order to
> accommodate the battery's decrease in capacity with time makes more sense.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 11/21/2003 6:33:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za writes:
Regarding other aircraft, we do not have the sheer numbers & variety you
guys enjoy in the USA. I can find great aircraft via the net that I would
purchase in the USA, but it is a problem to get them to South Africa (where
I live), adding substantially to the cost, with either a disassembly,
crating and shipping or a ferry. Plus of course the concern that should
something break in the middle of Africa on ferry then one is stuck there
with no spares easily available.
Each time I hear "South Africa" I remember the longest and loneliest flight I
ever navigated. Robert's Field, Liberia to St. Helena Island, across South
West Africa to "Joeburg". We couldn't talk to anyone. We were even out of HF
range. We didn't see any ships below with our radar. SW Africa was like the
back side of the moon. One leg we went over a 1,000 nm without coming into
range of ONE radio beacon of any kind. No LORAN A, CONSOLAN, NDBs, anything.
Just the stars. (not GPS ones either)
Nope, for the CJ-6 even that is a little much. :)
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: FOUGAPILOT@aol.com
Blitz, I reveived your message when I was in Moscow, and can't find your number.
Email me off list and we will look into the instruments.
Cheers.
Dan Fortin
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