---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 11/21/03: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:30 AM - Re: Mooney (Gus Fraser) 2. 06:04 AM - Mooney (cpayne@joimail.com) 3. 08:59 AM - National Warbird Operator Conference (Tom Johnson) 4. 09:00 AM - National Warbird Operator Conference Feb 29 to 29, 2004, Oklahoma City. (Tom Johnson) 5. 01:02 PM - Re: Mooney (Jorgen Nielsen) 6. 02:41 PM - Really Nice Comments... (Matt Dralle) 7. 04:11 PM - Completely off topic, but... (E R) 8. 04:52 PM - Re: Alternators for the M14P (Ron) 9. 05:06 PM - Re: Mooney (cjpilot710@aol.com) 10. 07:53 PM - Blitz, (FOUGAPILOT@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:13 AM PST US From: "Gus Fraser" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Mooney --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" Forget the Mooney, stay FSU, get an IAR 823 As fast as a mooney with an 1600lb useful load and it has a useful G loading. Oh and about half the cost. Gus -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen Subject: Yak-List: Mooney --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around. The Yak remains as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown one previously, any info (off list) would be appreciated. Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed mods are best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under consideration is mainly the M20F. Thanks Jorgen ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:38 AM PST US From: cpayne@joimail.com Subject: Yak-List: Mooney --> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com Jorgen, There is this airport in Southern Wisconsin at a resort that has an asphalt runway built up higher over the grass taxiway portion...looks deceptively smooth. All along the transition area from grass to runway are lines of prop nicks on the asphalt edge: "Mooney Marks". Those "Bananas" can be flown just as economically as the Mooney. It's just that the owners never pull back on the "money knob" to get an economical cruise. Good Luck, Craig Payne > Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around. > The Yak remains as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown > one previously, any info (off list) would be appreciated. > Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed mods are > best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under > consideration is mainly the M20F. > > Thanks > Jorgen Jorgen, There is this airport in Southern Wisconsin at a resort that has an asphalt runway built up higher over the grass taxiway portion...looks deceptively smooth. All along the transition area from grass to runway are lines of prop nicks on the asphalt edge: "Mooney Marks". Those "Bananas" can be flown just as economically as the Mooney. It's just that the owners never pull back on the "money knob" to get an economical cruise. Good Luck, Craig Payne Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around. The Yak remains as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown one previously, any info (off list) would be appreciated. Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed mods are best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under consideration is mainly the M20F. Thanks Jorgen ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:11 AM PST US From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: Yak-List: National Warbird Operator Conference --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" Friends: You asked last year to have a great presence at the National Warbird Operator Conference. Last year the Yak / CJ's were lumped in the "Other" category with those Liaison type aircraft. It was not acceptable. I have just secured an agreement to have a complete breakout session for Yak / CJs at NWOC 2004 Please visit the website for basic details, more information will be available shortly. ********************************** Thomas Johnson Senior Account Executive 1983 Yak 52 Tel: 800-851-2997 Fax: 480-951-1455 Cell: 602-628-2701 E: tjohnson@cannonaviation.com ADDRESS CHANGE: New Suite # is 204 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:00:21 AM PST US From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: Yak-List: National Warbird Operator Conference Feb 29 to 29, 2004, Oklahoma City. --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" Friends: MARK YOUR CALENDARS February 26 to 29, 2004, NWOC, Oklahoma City, OK. You asked last year to have a great presence at the National Warbird Operator Conference. Last year the Yak / CJ's were lumped in the "Other" category with those Liaison type aircraft. It was not acceptable. I have just secured an agreement to have a complete breakout session for Yak / CJs at NWOC 2004 Please visit the website for basic details, more information will be available shortly. http://www.warbirdconference.com/ This a great conference with specific focus on our type aircraft. I'm glad to discuss additional details with anyone interested. We NEED to have some good representation by our Yaks / CJs. We NEED to show that our group is a large force to be reckoned with in the warbird community. If you went last year in Phoenix, you'll agree it was more informative than you thought. Tom Johnson ********************************** Thomas Johnson Senior Account Executive 1983 Yak 52 (with -TW envy) Tel: 800-851-2997 Fax: 480-951-1455 Cell: 602-628-2701 E: tjohnson@cannonaviation.com ADDRESS CHANGE: New Suite # is 204 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:55 PM PST US From: "Jorgen Nielsen" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Mooney --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" Craig, Gus, Doug, Robert & anyone else I may have missed Thanks for your replies re the Mooney considerations, both to help with pre-purchase and alternatives. Regarding other aircraft, we do not have the sheer numbers & variety you guys enjoy in the USA. I can find great aircraft via the net that I would purchase in the USA, but it is a problem to get them to South Africa (where I live), adding substantially to the cost, with either a disassembly, crating and shipping or a ferry. Plus of course the concern that should something break in the middle of Africa on ferry then one is stuck there with no spares easily available. Aircraft here tend to be more expensive (sometimes much more) than in the states. BTW, what is a "banana"? Regards Jorgen -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of cpayne@joimail.com Subject: Yak-List: Mooney --> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com Jorgen, There is this airport in Southern Wisconsin at a resort that has an asphalt runway built up higher over the grass taxiway portion...looks deceptively smooth. All along the transition area from grass to runway are lines of prop nicks on the asphalt edge: "Mooney Marks". Those "Bananas" can be flown just as economically as the Mooney. It's just that the owners never pull back on the "money knob" to get an economical cruise. Good Luck, Craig Payne > Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around. > The Yak remains as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown > one previously, any info (off list) would be appreciated. > Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed mods are > best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under > consideration is mainly the M20F. > > Thanks > Jorgen ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:56 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Yak-List: Really Nice Comments... --> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, We're nearing the end of this year's List Fund Raiser and I wanted to share some of the really nice comments members have been making about the Lists and what the Lists mean to them. Please take a moment to read over some of the thought's members have shared with me in the last couple of weeks regarding the Lists. Its pretty awesome. 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M. ...it's a pleasure to be part of this generous community of builder/pilots. - Ron P. Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:15 PM PST US From: E R Subject: Yak-List: Completely off topic, but... --> Yak-List message posted by: E R This is completely off-topic, so I hesitate to send this out, but I have an immediate and critical need for legal advice in the Los Angeles area (dealing with a landlord/tenant issue.) My appologies for using this list for this purpose, but I wanted to reach out to my established resources for help before letting my fingers do the walking through pages and Yellow Pages full of strangers. If you can assist, my off-list email contact is Girlypilot@yahoo.com. Thanks to all (again, so sorry, but the need is severe) Elizabeth --------------------------------- Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:40 PM PST US From: "Ron" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron" NiCad's memory effect gets a lot of publicity, I condsider their biggest problem to be self-discharge. A fully charged NiCad, left unattended is pretty much useless after 60 days. This is not true of a lead acid or NiMH. Why do handheld "emergency radios" always come with NICads? If you put alkaline batteries in your handheld it and don't touch it for two years, it will still work fine in an emergency. NiCads also hold nearly full voltage until the end. This is good for some applications, but lousy for an emergency flashlight. Fading out is better in this case. NiCads are very good for very few things. Fortunately, they have been surpassed by NiMH technology. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorgen Nielsen" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" > > Hi Brian > > Points you made below re chargers noted & agreed. > > 2 comments: Without getting real fancy in terms of sophisticated chargers, > I have found that by using a cheap conservatily sized charger, either solar > panel or powered, AND verifying current flow with ammeter at different > states of charge, you can work out a compromise that will replenish charge > and will not cook the battery if left on. The downside is of course risking > not getting the battery up to full charge if depleted. > > The original post was related to an in aircraft battery install, with no > alternator, to power xsponder & comm for limited period, for relatively > infrequent (weekly?) flights. Hence the recomendation to size at double the > actual AH requirement, so as not to deep discharge each time, shortening > battery life & risking a no-comms situation. Agreed with on board charging > this would be overkill. > > Also agreed on flat-out wrong info on web, one has to filter carefully - the > most common misconception I have seen being the hyped up and overstated > memory effect problem with nicads in general. > > Regards > Jorgen > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the M14P > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > Jorgen Nielsen @ Mweb wrote: > > reaches charge, the current reduces to float. If you dont have power in > the > > hangar use a solar panel or 2 in series for 24V. > > Actually, once the lead-acid battery reaches full charge you need to drop > the *voltage* to a float level. This voltage is selected so that the > battery neither charges nor discharges and it varies with temperature. The > really good chargers for lead-acid batteries charge in three stages: > > 1. constant current in order to put back about 80% of the charge and this > switches to; > 2. constant voltage at the absorption level, typically about 14.6V (29.2V) > for a fixed amount of time and then; > 3. drops to a float voltage of around 13.2V (26.4V). > > These numbers vary depending on battery type; i.e. flooded cell, AGM, or > gel; and they vary with temperature. > > > This is the same problem yachties have, good info on the web. > > Most of what I have found on the web posted by so-called experts for > yachties has just been flat-out wrong. Go read the manufacturer's data. > For sealed AGM/Gel batteries the Deka on-line technical manual is really > useful reading. See: http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/products/pdfs/0139.pdf. > > I have also found Ample Power to have good information as well. They make > smart regulators and battery chargers for boats and RVs. Their stuff is > designed to rapidly charge a battery without damaging it so you get the > maximum number of cycles from the battery. > > > When choosing a battery work out the total drain (e.g. xsponder + comm) in > > Amp hours, multiply by how many hours you want, double it and thats what > > size battery you need. E.g. 1.5AH X 3 hours + 4.5AH, you need a 9AH > > battery. You will never get all 9AH out of it and shouldn't discharge > > totally anyway, plus you get a bit of reserve. > > Battery manufacturers will specify the battery capacity at different > discharge rates. As the current draw increases the battery capacity > decreases. So you need to figure out the current and the time but then you > need to refer to the battery manufacturer's specs. Remember, aircraft use > is not the same as deep-cycle energy storage use (like boats and houses with > solar PV panels). > > In the case of an airplane, the alternator is not likely to fail often so > the discharge may be 100% since the battery will very seldom be required to > perform this task. Doubling the capacity of the battery is overkill. > Figuring out the right battery size and then adding 20% in order to > accommodate the battery's decrease in capacity with time makes more sense. > > -- > > Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201 > brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802 > +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax > GMT-4 > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:56 PM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Mooney --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com In a message dated 11/21/2003 6:33:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za writes: Regarding other aircraft, we do not have the sheer numbers & variety you guys enjoy in the USA. I can find great aircraft via the net that I would purchase in the USA, but it is a problem to get them to South Africa (where I live), adding substantially to the cost, with either a disassembly, crating and shipping or a ferry. Plus of course the concern that should something break in the middle of Africa on ferry then one is stuck there with no spares easily available. Each time I hear "South Africa" I remember the longest and loneliest flight I ever navigated. Robert's Field, Liberia to St. Helena Island, across South West Africa to "Joeburg". We couldn't talk to anyone. We were even out of HF range. We didn't see any ships below with our radar. SW Africa was like the back side of the moon. One leg we went over a 1,000 nm without coming into range of ONE radio beacon of any kind. No LORAN A, CONSOLAN, NDBs, anything. Just the stars. (not GPS ones either) Nope, for the CJ-6 even that is a little much. :) Jim Goolsby "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes until some woman stomps all over them." Unknown older man. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:44 PM PST US From: FOUGAPILOT@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: Blitz, --> Yak-List message posted by: FOUGAPILOT@aol.com Blitz, I reveived your message when I was in Moscow, and can't find your number. Email me off list and we will look into the instruments. Cheers. Dan Fortin