Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Bananas (cpayne@joimail.com)
2. 08:55 AM - Re: Mooney (Doug Sapp)
3. 10:21 AM - [ Andres Ratsepp ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
4. 10:26 AM - [ Hal Morley ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
5. 01:25 PM - Re: Mooney (Jorgen Nielsen)
6. 01:44 PM - Re: Bananas (Jorgen Nielsen)
7. 01:47 PM - Re: Mooney (Bruce Campbell)
8. 07:19 PM - Re: Mooney (Brian Lloyd)
9. 07:22 PM - Re: Mooney (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com
Jorgen,
"Bananas" was a somewhat snide reference to "Bonanzas". I
had hoped to provoke one or more CJ/Bonanza owner into
flexing his "Beechhood". It seems numerous CJ guys also have
"Bananas". Here in the USA, Bonanza owners are like dogs and
Mooney drivers are like cats in the high performance single
world.
My real point was that, given the same payload and airspeed,
the Bonanza offers similiar economy but with greater comfort
and perhaps "style"? If good climb is a consideration from
the airports you operate from, then perhaps a review of
performance parameters would help.
Craig Payne
Jorgen,
"Bananas" was a somewhat snide reference to "Bonanzas". I had hoped to
provoke one or more CJ/Bonanza owner into flexing his "Beechhood". It seems
numerous CJ guys also have "Bananas". Here in the USA, Bonanza owners are like
dogs and Mooney drivers are like cats in the high performance single world.
My real point was that, given the same payload and airspeed, the Bonanza
offers similiar economy but with greater comfort and perhaps "style"? If good
climb is a consideration from the airports you operate from, then perhaps a
review of performance parameters would help.
Craig Payne
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
He is referring to the Beech Bonanza, my personal favorite of all the spam
cans, unless you offer up the aerobatic model of Bonanza.
I have a good friend in Perth Australia who from time to time comes up with
smoking hot deals on Cessna 206 and 185 aircraft, which in my mind might be
a better choice considering the area which you have described. Both are
slower, but both will pack more, take more abuse, and cost you less per hour
to run than either a Mooney or a Bonanza and depending on the model will
seat 4-6 people. Parts are also easier and are lower cost. If you really
want to pack a load and if and you require 6 seats a 300hp Cherokee Six is a
real tough aircraft with lots of power. I have owned several, and they are
real work horses, but again slower than all the aircraft mentioned above.
Also, a point to consider is that Mooney is teetering on the brink of
bankruptcy, so parts may be a problem off in the future. I just looked at a
map to refresh my knowledge of world geography and discovered there is a
fair bit of water between you and Perth (sharks too I would think) so I
would think containerizing the aircraft would be the way to get the job
done.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Mooney
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Craig, Gus, Doug, Robert & anyone else I may have missed
Thanks for your replies re the Mooney considerations, both to help with
pre-purchase and alternatives.
Regarding other aircraft, we do not have the sheer numbers & variety you
guys enjoy in the USA. I can find great aircraft via the net that I would
purchase in the USA, but it is a problem to get them to South Africa (where
I live), adding substantially to the cost, with either a disassembly,
crating and shipping or a ferry. Plus of course the concern that should
something break in the middle of Africa on ferry then one is stuck there
with no spares easily available. Aircraft here tend to be more expensive
(sometimes much more) than in the states.
BTW, what is a "banana"?
Regards
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Mooney
--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com
Jorgen,
There is this airport in Southern Wisconsin at a resort that
has an asphalt runway built up higher over the grass taxiway
portion...looks deceptively smooth. All along the transition
area from grass to runway are lines of prop nicks on the
asphalt edge: "Mooney Marks".
Those "Bananas" can be flown just as economically as the
Mooney. It's just that the owners never pull back on the
"money knob" to get an economical cruise.
Good Luck,
Craig Payne
> Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around.
> The Yak remains as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown
> one previously, any info (off list) would be appreciated.
> Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed mods are
> best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under
> consideration is mainly the M20F.
>
> Thanks
> Jorgen
Message 3
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| Subject: | [ Andres Ratsepp ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Andres Ratsepp <andres.ratsepp@altacapital.ee>
Subject: Yak 52
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/andres.ratsepp@altacapital.ee.11.22.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
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6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | [ Hal Morley ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Hal Morley <Yakjock@msn.com>
Subject: Brothers on High
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Yakjock@msn.com.11.22.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Thanks Doug.
Yes re the 206 et al, many in use and very practical here in SA. The
Cherokee Six commonly referred to as a farmer's plane. (Actually a name
somewhat more derogatory, but that is the gist of it)
I am hooked on the concept of the mooney for the speed potential, as I guess
many of us are. It seems to represent the most speed for the buck.
Bonanza's attact high prices locally. I have been spoilt by previously
being part owner through the company I worked for of a turbo Arrow and a
Seneca, with free use thereof thrown in - a rather nice situation. Currently
I use a friends P210 for non acro flying. This has all led to certain
expectations from the other half with regard to flight time duration.
And yes to the container, I don't like sharks.
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Mooney
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
He is referring to the Beech Bonanza, my personal favorite of all the spam
cans, unless you offer up the aerobatic model of Bonanza.
I have a good friend in Perth Australia who from time to time comes up with
smoking hot deals on Cessna 206 and 185 aircraft, which in my mind might be
a better choice considering the area which you have described. Both are
slower, but both will pack more, take more abuse, and cost you less per hour
to run than either a Mooney or a Bonanza and depending on the model will
seat 4-6 people. Parts are also easier and are lower cost. If you really
want to pack a load and if and you require 6 seats a 300hp Cherokee Six is a
real tough aircraft with lots of power. I have owned several, and they are
real work horses, but again slower than all the aircraft mentioned above.
Also, a point to consider is that Mooney is teetering on the brink of
bankruptcy, so parts may be a problem off in the future. I just looked at a
map to refresh my knowledge of world geography and discovered there is a
fair bit of water between you and Perth (sharks too I would think) so I
would think containerizing the aircraft would be the way to get the job
done.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Mooney
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Craig, Gus, Doug, Robert & anyone else I may have missed
Thanks for your replies re the Mooney considerations, both to help with
pre-purchase and alternatives.
Regarding other aircraft, we do not have the sheer numbers & variety you
guys enjoy in the USA. I can find great aircraft via the net that I would
purchase in the USA, but it is a problem to get them to South Africa (where
I live), adding substantially to the cost, with either a disassembly,
crating and shipping or a ferry. Plus of course the concern that should
something break in the middle of Africa on ferry then one is stuck there
with no spares easily available. Aircraft here tend to be more expensive
(sometimes much more) than in the states.
BTW, what is a "banana"?
Regards
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Mooney
--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com
Jorgen,
There is this airport in Southern Wisconsin at a resort that
has an asphalt runway built up higher over the grass taxiway
portion...looks deceptively smooth. All along the transition
area from grass to runway are lines of prop nicks on the
asphalt edge: "Mooney Marks".
Those "Bananas" can be flown just as economically as the
Mooney. It's just that the owners never pull back on the
"money knob" to get an economical cruise.
Good Luck,
Craig Payne
> Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around.
> The Yak remains as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown
> one previously, any info (off list) would be appreciated.
> Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed mods are
> best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under
> consideration is mainly the M20F.
>
> Thanks
> Jorgen
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Hi Craig
Dogs/Cats...Are you saying the Bonanzas always chase the Mooneys? Because
they in front?
I will go read up on Bonanzas! And yes, good climb is important, we have
hot & high conditions here, with airport elevations of over 5000ft and 30+
degree Centrigrade summer temps.
One day returning to home base the Yak felt really sluggish, it was really
bumpy as well, and difficult to maintain constant altitude. After landing,
on the ground at 5000ft I noted the temperature of 40C. Don't think the
russians expected that when putting the Yak together.
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Bananas
--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com
Jorgen,
"Bananas" was a somewhat snide reference to "Bonanzas". I
had hoped to provoke one or more CJ/Bonanza owner into
flexing his "Beechhood". It seems numerous CJ guys also have
"Bananas". Here in the USA, Bonanza owners are like dogs and
Mooney drivers are like cats in the high performance single
world.
My real point was that, given the same payload and airspeed,
the Bonanza offers similiar economy but with greater comfort
and perhaps "style"? If good climb is a consideration from
the airports you operate from, then perhaps a review of
performance parameters would help.
Craig Payne
Jorgen,
"Bananas" was a somewhat snide reference to "Bonanzas". I had hoped to
provoke one or more CJ/Bonanza owner into flexing his "Beechhood". It seems
numerous CJ guys also have "Bananas". Here in the USA, Bonanza owners are
like
dogs and Mooney drivers are like cats in the high performance single world.
My real point was that, given the same payload and airspeed, the Bonanza
offers similiar economy but with greater comfort and perhaps "style"? If
good
climb is a consideration from the airports you operate from, then perhaps a
review of performance parameters would help.
Craig Payne
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" <baruch@intelligentflight.com>
My US$0.02.
The mooney 20C-F is *not* a fast plane unless extensively (and expensively)
modified. Think 130 kts.
I considered one to replace the Grumman AA5 Traveller I had then. Wasnt any
faster than a Tiger.
The 201 is a good 140 kt airplane, but that's not fast.
The fast ones (231, 252, ovation, all that.) get their quick from the turbo.
An are both expensive to buy or own.
An older bonanza (G,H,J,K,M) is less expensive if purchased in the US and
considerably faster.
A straight 35 is dirt cheap, holds 4, and does an honest 200mph.
An IAR823 isn't quite as fast, but nearly, has better range, carries more,
is scary rugged, and VERY nice to fly. (A little loud, though). And has hard
points (i don't know if that would be a factor......)
I suspect no matter what, you're bucks ahead to import from US or Oz.
Bruce Campbell
Yak 52 N82623
IAR 823 N90823
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Mooney
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
<jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> Thanks Doug.
>
> Yes re the 206 et al, many in use and very practical here in SA. The
> Cherokee Six commonly referred to as a farmer's plane. (Actually a name
> somewhat more derogatory, but that is the gist of it)
>
> I am hooked on the concept of the mooney for the speed potential, as I
guess
> many of us are. It seems to represent the most speed for the buck.
> Bonanza's attact high prices locally. I have been spoilt by previously
> being part owner through the company I worked for of a turbo Arrow and a
> Seneca, with free use thereof thrown in - a rather nice situation.
Currently
> I use a friends P210 for non acro flying. This has all led to certain
> expectations from the other half with regard to flight time duration.
>
> And yes to the container, I don't like sharks.
>
> Jorgen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Mooney
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> He is referring to the Beech Bonanza, my personal favorite of all the spam
> cans, unless you offer up the aerobatic model of Bonanza.
>
> I have a good friend in Perth Australia who from time to time comes up
with
> smoking hot deals on Cessna 206 and 185 aircraft, which in my mind might
be
> a better choice considering the area which you have described. Both are
> slower, but both will pack more, take more abuse, and cost you less per
hour
> to run than either a Mooney or a Bonanza and depending on the model will
> seat 4-6 people. Parts are also easier and are lower cost. If you really
> want to pack a load and if and you require 6 seats a 300hp Cherokee Six is
a
> real tough aircraft with lots of power. I have owned several, and they are
> real work horses, but again slower than all the aircraft mentioned above.
> Also, a point to consider is that Mooney is teetering on the brink of
> bankruptcy, so parts may be a problem off in the future. I just looked at
a
> map to refresh my knowledge of world geography and discovered there is a
> fair bit of water between you and Perth (sharks too I would think) so I
> would think containerizing the aircraft would be the way to get the job
> done.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Mooney
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
<jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> Craig, Gus, Doug, Robert & anyone else I may have missed
>
> Thanks for your replies re the Mooney considerations, both to help with
> pre-purchase and alternatives.
>
> Regarding other aircraft, we do not have the sheer numbers & variety you
> guys enjoy in the USA. I can find great aircraft via the net that I would
> purchase in the USA, but it is a problem to get them to South Africa
(where
> I live), adding substantially to the cost, with either a disassembly,
> crating and shipping or a ferry. Plus of course the concern that should
> something break in the middle of Africa on ferry then one is stuck there
> with no spares easily available. Aircraft here tend to be more expensive
> (sometimes much more) than in the states.
>
> BTW, what is a "banana"?
>
> Regards
> Jorgen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> cpayne@joimail.com
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Mooney
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com
>
> Jorgen,
> There is this airport in Southern Wisconsin at a resort that
> has an asphalt runway built up higher over the grass taxiway
> portion...looks deceptively smooth. All along the transition
> area from grass to runway are lines of prop nicks on the
> asphalt edge: "Mooney Marks".
> Those "Bananas" can be flown just as economically as the
> Mooney. It's just that the owners never pull back on the
> "money knob" to get an economical cruise.
> Good Luck,
> Craig Payne
>
> > Thinking of buying a Mooney for carting the family around.
> > The Yak remains as the toy. If anyone has owned or flown
> > one previously, any info (off list) would be appreciated.
> > Such as: true cruise speed/range, which speed mods are
> > best, any known problems to watch out for, etc. Under
> > consideration is mainly the M20F.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jorgen
>
>
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Bruce Campbell wrote:
> The 201 is a good 140 kt airplane, but that's not fast.
Actually, the 201 is a good 160-165 kt airplane on 10GPH. I flew one pretty regularly
and raced my Comanche against it coming home from work many afternoons
(my neighbor had the Mooney and we used to try to see who could get on the ground
first). The Mooney 201 was frankly faster than the Comanche unless I wanted
to run the Comanche at 100% power and then we were pretty well even up.
> The fast ones (231, 252, ovation, all that.) get their quick from the turbo.
> An are both expensive to buy or own.
Anything with a turbocharger is going to be more expensive to maintain but they
are nice up high where you can get a good tailwind.
> An older bonanza (G,H,J,K,M) is less expensive if purchased in the US and
> considerably faster.
I think you may be overrating the speed of the Bonanza just a bit.
> A straight 35 is dirt cheap, holds 4, and does an honest 200mph.
Hmm, I have always thought of the V-35 as being a 165 kt (190 mph) airplane too.
I guess I am not up-to-date.
> An IAR823 isn't quite as fast, but nearly, has better range, carries more,
> is scary rugged, and VERY nice to fly. (A little loud, though). And has hard
> points (i don't know if that would be a factor......)
My experience is that the IAR823 I flew was heavy on the controls and it was slower
than my Comanche (about on a par with a stock CJ6A in terms of speed). Also
the elevator and aileron forces seemed to me to be unharmonious. But I had
been flying a CJ6A and it has such a nice control feel that anything would feel
like a truck after that.
You just need to nail down the mission profile and then pick the right airplane
for the job. One or two people going cross contry? Get the Mooney. The IO-360
in the 201 is a pretty bullet-proof engine and will require less maintenance
over the long run than will the IO-520 in the Bonanza. IO-360 engines will
typically make it to TBO without any major maintenance if flown regularly and
properly.
More people? Get the Bonanza for the increased room but expect to have to do a
top overhaul on the Continental engine at mid-time. Also be aware of the relatively
narrow CG range for the V-tailed Bonanza. IMHO a straight-tailed bird
(Debonair or A-36) is probably a better choice.
Disclaimer: I don't really care much one way or another since all the airplanes
under discussion are good airplanes.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
How the hell the Mooneys, Bonanzas and other spam cans get on this list? :)
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
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