Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:20 AM - Re: Oil changes (Stuart Mackereth)
2. 12:23 AM - Fuel Pressure Primer (Stuart Mackereth)
3. 12:40 AM - FW: Help - oil pressure (Jorgen Nielsen)
4. 12:59 AM - oil pressure (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
5. 03:06 AM - manuals. (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
6. 10:11 AM - Re: oil pressure (Jorgen Nielsen)
7. 12:29 PM - Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! (Matt Dralle)
8. 12:43 PM - Re: oil pressure (Brian Lloyd)
9. 01:23 PM - Re: oil pressure (Jorgen Nielsen)
10. 01:47 PM - Re: oil pressure (Brian Lloyd)
11. 02:13 PM - Re: oil pressure (Jorgen Nielsen)
12. 05:37 PM - Navy Blue Paint Scheme (Jeff Linebaugh)
13. 10:17 PM - Re: oil pressure (Stuart Mackereth)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Stuart Mackereth" <stuart@bramptonyork.com>
Do you do anything more than draining the oil tank tap and the sump tap
when changing oil ?
Also - Jorgen one for you - are you running W100 or W120 in our hot and
high conditions? I've tried W120 and she seems to run a tad cooler,
although the prop turns slower on startup when cold.
Stuart
yak52
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil changes
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
25 hours religiously.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Subject: Yak-List: Oil changes
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
<jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> And now for another question for the experts on the list...
>
> How often is everyone changing the oil?
>
> Regards
> Jorgen
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuel Pressure Primer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Stuart Mackereth" <stuart@bramptonyork.com>
Hi
I'm sure I posted this before, but now can't find it in the logs, and
no-one replied, so here goes again..
I have an interesting situation with fuel pressure when priming. 1st
flight of the day is no problem, 0.5 kg/cm2 achieved quickly and easily
- thereafter, I can pump 100 times vigorously, but the fuel pressure
remains at 0. She still starts immediately though..
Is this something to worry about?
Stuart
yak52
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Strut Pressures Yak 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
18-20 ATM in the mains and 25-27 ATM in the nose. You are correct with
regards to scissors brackets being fully extended. This is normal on a
52. Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <TASTEVENS1@aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Strut Pressures Yak 52
> --> Yak-List message posted by: TASTEVENS1@aol.com
>
> I have unsuccessful locating factory specifications regarding the
> amount
of
> pressure in the main wheel struts in atmospheres.
>
> How much travel should occur in the "normal" landing? The scissor
> brackets appear almost fully extended on most aircraft I have seen on
> the ground
and that
> appears to yield a fairly firm spring to absorb the landing shock.
>
> Any tricks to setting the proper pressure?
>
>
> Tim Stevens Email To: TAStevens1@aol.com
>
>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Help - oil pressure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Thanks to Wes, Harry & Kevin for advice.
On my way to the airport now to test things out. First option is to fill up
with oil & check the pressure.
I will report back.
Out of interest my mechanic (after fixing / adjusting previously), noted
that the adjustment for one turn should yield a specific change, which my
adjuster did not - it may be a thought to swap one round, the engine has 480
hours on & I am led to believe the surface on the regulator can get pitted /
worn, leading to similar problem.
I am sitting with 2 M14P's in my hangar, one which is new (20 hours max) but
crashed, the other with about 280 hours on but with top problem on one
cylinder.
The crashed one was pancaked in, after a loop with insufficient altitude
(not me). Only visible damage to engine are bent cooling fins on bottom
cylinder and bent intake pipe.
Both engines have been professionally pickled by one of the guys from our
air force. Any ideas as to what to do with these? Its such a pity re the
pranged one, it would be nice if someone could check it & repair any damage
using the other, than I wind up with a new engine, but of course the
shockload picture presents itself, which effectively means shipping overseas
for overhaul.
Jorgen
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
Jorgen.
Have you investigated the flop tube assembly in the oil tank? This is a shaft with
close tolerance sleeves that allow both oil suction and air venting. to/from
the tank.
We have experienced wear in this shaft allowing air to be sucked to the oil suction
side.
As I recall from 8 years that one part of the shaft is very critical, its only
a few mm wide and really needs to be close tolerance fit.
When the oil is hotter is the drop greater?
Is the drop greater or happening after aeros?
I assume on initial start all is normal?
After following the debate I would lay money on the above.
and B4 U ask, no I don't have a "cheap" tank in stock!!! The home builders keep
"sucking" them on the market place :>))
bye 4 now, Mark J
YAK UK.
> Help required, #$%#%$ pressure problems again...
>
> Earlier this year my Yak-52 dropped oil pressure while doing acro. The
> fix by my mechanic was to re-adjust the pressure, and all was well again.
> He did hook up an external gauge as well to check things out.
>
> Oil pressure has been constant since, with no problems experienced. At
> the time I felt a little misgiving, in terms of something must have caused
> it to drop - the adjustment screw did not back itself out.
>
> Anyway, yesterday, the same thing happened again. I just just completed a
> half-loop and levelled off inverted. Checking down (or should that be
> up?) at the ASI, I scanned the instruments and saw the oil pressure just
> at the bottom of the yellow. Rolled level, rechecked, cycled pitch, no
> change, so headed back for the airport. Pressure was constant throughout
> (no fluctuation), but low. I don't want to simply turn up the adjustment
> again, there must be something wrong somewhere. Any ideas? Anyone have
> this before?
>
> Thanks
> Jorgen
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
Denis has answered I know, but if you want a full maintenance documentation for
the YAK 52 we sell this on a CD, approx 3000 pages for the airframe, engine,
parts manual. Also for the YAK 50. Don't you need maintenance manuals on experimental?
$120.
Mark J
YAK UK.
--> Yak-List message posted by: TASTEVENS1@aol.com
I have unsuccessful locating factory specifications regarding the amount of
pressure in the main wheel struts in atmospheres.
How much travel should occur in the "normal" landing? The scissor brackets
appear almost fully extended on most aircraft I have seen on the ground and that
appears to yield a fairly firm spring to absorb the landing shock.
Any tricks to setting the proper pressure?
Best regards
Mark Jefferies
: Managing director YAK UK Ltd
Little Gransden Airfield, Sandy, Beds SG19 3BP, England.
( +44 (0)1767 651156 Office + 651157 fax
( +44 (0)7785 538 317 Mobile
: Conditions/ terms of business
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Hi Mark
Thanks for response. Also for anyone else following this thread, an update:
I put oil in today up to the 12l mark, then went flying.
Pressure started off OK, about 6 when cold, dropped off to 5 as the engine
warmed up, stayed constant at 5 for first 10 minutes, still at 5 pre aeros,
after a couple loops etc still at 5, then after a few minutes checked again,
it had dropped to just under 3.
This was after aeros with negative & 0G component.
Called it a day, went back and checked oil level, level had hardly moved
since pre-flight. Engine also has a bit of a leak, coming from the back
somewhere on RHS, not enough to affect the level. I had cleaned the engine
yesterday, in preparation for adjusting.
So Mark, in answer to specific questions, no I have not yet checked oil
tank. Pressure initially OK but drops after aeros. By the time I start with
aeros all temps are normal. Initial start the gauge always reads high,
until temps come up.
And noted on tank! These damn homebuilders!!!
Could this be the demise of my engine? I.e., when this happens on other
engines it could be excessive oil flow through worn bearings?
Regards
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Jefferies
YAK UK Ltd
Subject: Yak-List: oil pressure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
Jorgen.
Have you investigated the flop tube assembly in the oil tank? This is a
shaft with close tolerance sleeves that allow both oil suction and air
venting. to/from the tank.
We have experienced wear in this shaft allowing air to be sucked to the oil
suction side.
As I recall from 8 years that one part of the shaft is very critical, its
only a few mm wide and really needs to be close tolerance fit.
When the oil is hotter is the drop greater?
Is the drop greater or happening after aeros?
I assume on initial start all is normal?
After following the debate I would lay money on the above.
and B4 U ask, no I don't have a "cheap" tank in stock!!! The home builders
keep "sucking" them on the market place :>))
bye 4 now, Mark J
YAK UK.
> Help required, #$%#%$ pressure problems again...
>
> Earlier this year my Yak-52 dropped oil pressure while doing acro. The
> fix by my mechanic was to re-adjust the pressure, and all was well again.
> He did hook up an external gauge as well to check things out.
>
> Oil pressure has been constant since, with no problems experienced. At
> the time I felt a little misgiving, in terms of something must have caused
> it to drop - the adjustment screw did not back itself out.
>
> Anyway, yesterday, the same thing happened again. I just just completed a
> half-loop and levelled off inverted. Checking down (or should that be
> up?) at the ASI, I scanned the instruments and saw the oil pressure just
> at the bottom of the yellow. Rolled level, rechecked, cycled pitch, no
> change, so headed back for the airport. Pressure was constant throughout
> (no fluctuation), but low. I don't want to simply turn up the adjustment
> again, there must be something wrong somewhere. Any ideas? Anyone have
> this before?
>
> Thanks
> Jorgen
Message 7
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| Subject: | Last "Official" Day To Make Your List Contribution!! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Well, its November 30th and that means three things...
1) Today I am officially 40 years old (sympathy is appreciated)!
2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser!
3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! :-)
If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam,
and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution
today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30
goes a long way to further the List operation and keep the bills paid.
A Lister wrote a funny message in the comments field of his Contribution
today that I thought summed up the whole situation:
"Worth every penny and I'm a tightwad!"
Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is
greatly appreciated.
Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: oil pressure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jorgen Nielsen wrote:
> So Mark, in answer to specific questions, no I have not yet checked oil
> tank. Pressure initially OK but drops after aeros. By the time I start with
> aeros all temps are normal. Initial start the gauge always reads high,
> until temps come up.
>
> Could this be the demise of my engine? I.e., when this happens on other
> engines it could be excessive oil flow through worn bearings?
I don't think this is excessive bypass caused by worn bearings. In that case oil
pressure at idle would be way low. That is when the output of the oil pump
is lowest. Remember, bearing clearance doesn't change with engine speed but
oil pump output does. Once the oil and engine are at operating temperature the
idle oil pressure will tell you about clearances inside the engine.
I would first look for things that change when you aerobatics. It doesn't seem
to change unless you pull negative G, right? Well look for things that change
in the oil system when you pull negative G. If I had to guess, I would look
for foaming of the oil due to admittance of air. I think that the comments on
the flop tube warrant investigation.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Hi Brian
That logic of yours re the pressure at idle being OK makes me one happy
person!
I have been really worried thinking worst case - new engine. And by that, I
am sure the downtime would hurt more than the $ for the new engine.
Have also now taken apart the regulator - from spare engine. Very simple,
and unlikely to cause any trouble. I think that by adjusting the pressure,
we have addressed the symptom, not the problem, which lies elsewhere. Next
stop, clean filters, oil tank, oil lines, etc. I will remove flop tube &
regulator valve assembly and check / clean as well.
So, another question for the list to serve as benchmark - with engine warmed
up to operating temp, what are typical values at say 40% & 30%? And are
these the same after an aerobatic flight?
Thanks
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: oil pressure
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jorgen Nielsen wrote:
> So Mark, in answer to specific questions, no I have not yet checked oil
> tank. Pressure initially OK but drops after aeros. By the time I start
with
> aeros all temps are normal. Initial start the gauge always reads high,
> until temps come up.
>
> Could this be the demise of my engine? I.e., when this happens on other
> engines it could be excessive oil flow through worn bearings?
I don't think this is excessive bypass caused by worn bearings. In that
case oil pressure at idle would be way low. That is when the output of the
oil pump is lowest. Remember, bearing clearance doesn't change with engine
speed but oil pump output does. Once the oil and engine are at operating
temperature the idle oil pressure will tell you about clearances inside the
engine.
I would first look for things that change when you aerobatics. It doesn't
seem to change unless you pull negative G, right? Well look for things that
change in the oil system when you pull negative G. If I had to guess, I
would look for foaming of the oil due to admittance of air. I think that
the comments on the flop tube warrant investigation.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: oil pressure |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jorgen Nielsen wrote:
> That logic of yours re the pressure at idle being OK makes me one
> happy person!
Happy to oblige.
> Have also now taken apart the regulator - from spare engine. Very
> simple, and unlikely to cause any trouble.
I had trouble with this same problem (no aerobatics tho') with the Lycoming engine
in my Comanche for almost a year. The symptom was that the oil pressure would
just drop but be stable at the new pressure or it would repeatedly switch
between normal and low (but still acceptable). We couldn't find anything wrong.
Finally we traced the problem to the wrong oil pressure relief valve housing
being installed on the engine. Lycoming used to have two types of valve,
caged ball and free ball, and the wrong housing was installed for the type of
valve in the engine.
> I think that by adjusting the pressure, we have addressed the
> symptom, not the problem, which lies elsewhere.
I think you are right.
> Next stop, clean filters, oil tank, oil lines, etc. I will remove
> flop tube & regulator valve assembly and check / clean as well.
Look also for a piece of debris partially blocking a pickup or a screen. Once
the debris makes it to the screen it forms a restriction and flow keeps it in
place until the engine stops and it drops to the bottom of the tank or whatever
again.
Also check for the inner part of an oil pickup line (under suction) collapsing
under suction.
Off the top of my head I can't think of anything else right now.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Hi Brian
Thanks for further advice - also been reading all my existing material to
clue myself in as much as possible.
Will post progress.
Regards
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: oil pressure
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jorgen Nielsen wrote:
> That logic of yours re the pressure at idle being OK makes me one
> happy person!
Happy to oblige.
> Have also now taken apart the regulator - from spare engine. Very
> simple, and unlikely to cause any trouble.
I had trouble with this same problem (no aerobatics tho') with the Lycoming
engine in my Comanche for almost a year. The symptom was that the oil
pressure would just drop but be stable at the new pressure or it would
repeatedly switch between normal and low (but still acceptable). We
couldn't find anything wrong. Finally we traced the problem to the wrong
oil pressure relief valve housing being installed on the engine. Lycoming
used to have two types of valve, caged ball and free ball, and the wrong
housing was installed for the type of valve in the engine.
> I think that by adjusting the pressure, we have addressed the
> symptom, not the problem, which lies elsewhere.
I think you are right.
> Next stop, clean filters, oil tank, oil lines, etc. I will remove
> flop tube & regulator valve assembly and check / clean as well.
Look also for a piece of debris partially blocking a pickup or a screen.
Once the debris makes it to the screen it forms a restriction and flow keeps
it in place until the engine stops and it drops to the bottom of the tank or
whatever again.
Also check for the inner part of an oil pickup line (under suction)
collapsing under suction.
Off the top of my head I can't think of anything else right now.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 12
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| Subject: | Navy Blue Paint Scheme |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jeff Linebaugh <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
I have a navy blue CJ... picture in the gallery at yakpilots.org
Let me know if you'd like more pics or if I can be of assistance with the markings....
Evidently, the Chinese Navy did use CJs in some roles, and there is
talk that they were painted dark blue... So we took that and ran with it.
E-mail me for more pics....or call with questions...
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
901 850-8776
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Stuart Mackereth" <stuart@bramptonyork.com>
Hi Jorgen
Let me know when you are going to do stuff like this, would like to pop
over and watch and learn.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
Subject: RE: Yak-List: oil pressure
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
--> <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Hi Brian
That logic of yours re the pressure at idle being OK makes me one happy
person!
I have been really worried thinking worst case - new engine. And by
that, I am sure the downtime would hurt more than the $ for the new
engine.
Have also now taken apart the regulator - from spare engine. Very
simple, and unlikely to cause any trouble. I think that by adjusting
the pressure, we have addressed the symptom, not the problem, which lies
elsewhere. Next stop, clean filters, oil tank, oil lines, etc. I will
remove flop tube & regulator valve assembly and check / clean as well.
So, another question for the list to serve as benchmark - with engine
warmed up to operating temp, what are typical values at say 40% & 30%?
And are these the same after an aerobatic flight?
Thanks
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: oil pressure
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jorgen Nielsen wrote:
> So Mark, in answer to specific questions, no I have not yet checked
> oil tank. Pressure initially OK but drops after aeros. By the time I
> start
with
> aeros all temps are normal. Initial start the gauge always reads
> high, until temps come up.
>
> Could this be the demise of my engine? I.e., when this happens on
> other engines it could be excessive oil flow through worn bearings?
I don't think this is excessive bypass caused by worn bearings. In that
case oil pressure at idle would be way low. That is when the output of
the oil pump is lowest. Remember, bearing clearance doesn't change with
engine speed but oil pump output does. Once the oil and engine are at
operating temperature the idle oil pressure will tell you about
clearances inside the engine.
I would first look for things that change when you aerobatics. It
doesn't seem to change unless you pull negative G, right? Well look for
things that change in the oil system when you pull negative G. If I had
to guess, I would look for foaming of the oil due to admittance of air.
I think that the comments on the flop tube warrant investigation.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
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