---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/03/03: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:41 AM - Re: Yak 50 tail wheel shimmy () 2. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Yak 50 tailwheel shimmy (Bob Fitzpatrick) 3. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: Yak 50 tailwheel shimmy (A. Dennis Savarese) 4. 06:47 AM - Re: Wilga Parts needed (Robert Starnes) 5. 06:51 AM - Re: Yak 50 tail wheel shimmy (Lee Taylor) 6. 12:25 PM - extraordinary customer service (Drew Eginton) 7. 12:35 PM - newbie questions (Drew Eginton) 8. 02:44 PM - Re: newbie questions (BUTLER, FRANCIS) 9. 06:14 PM - Re: Yak 50 tail wheel shimmy (KevLCo@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:46 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 50 tail wheel shimmy --> Yak-List message posted by: Good morning, What about the use of that sticky marine grease (i.e. OMC Triple Guard)? It works very well on the parts exposed to water and all kinds of weather. Is it safe to use on the Yak 52? Lieven Buyse --- Original Message ----- From: "Jorgen Nielsen" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 50 tail wheel shimmy > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" > > Also FWIW, in general terms... > > For many lubrication jobs where I have previously have used WD40 (Q20) here > in SA, I use motorcycle chain lube. The one designed for o-ring chains that > will not harm rubber seals - it sprays on thin and will wick into confined > spaces, then after some time dries out but leaves a thick lubricating layer > on that will not run off or blow off or dry out further. If it works for > chains on high performance motorcycles, it should work in a number of other > places on aircraft. > > Just my 0.02 worth - after the dinner & wine I have just consumed, it may be > worth even less. > > Jorgen > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of A. Dennis > Savarese > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 50 tail wheel shimmy > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" > > LPS 2 spray lube has more longevity and does not tend to dry out as much as > WD40 does. WD40 is good, but LPS 2 is better. FWIW > Dennis > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dean Courtney" > To: > Subject: Yak-List: Yak 50 tail wheel shimmy > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney" > > > > > Yakers, > > > > You may remember a post a while back where I warned not to leave your YAK > > 50's tailwheel turned around backwards, as if the tail oleo went flat with > > the tail wheel in that position that it would cause sheet metal damage > > inside the fuse. FORGET THAT. > > If your tail wheel oleo is rigged correctly it is not possible. Oleo > > inflated, or flat. > > In our case the adjustable rod end, at the tip of the oleo piston (point > > where the oleo bolts to the top of the tailwheel) was completely bottomed > > (misrigged) in the piston rod. This allows too short of a center to center > > with the oleo fully inflated. This lack of length will allow the > > tailwheel-to-oleo angle to "reverse" when you push the airplane backward. > > Instead of the "uphill" angle they should maintain, they go "downhill". > Not > > a problem if you never push your airplane backwards. When you do, and If > > your tail wheel is missrigged, the "springyness" that you assume is the > > oleo, is really the sheet metal inside your tail yielding to the top of > the > > tail wheel assembally!! Quick operational check. With your tail oleo fully > > inflated. Push your airplane backward so the tail wheel yoke/tire have to > > reverse. The portion of the upper tail wheel assembally that is protruding > > from the hole in the bottom of your airplane, SHOULD BE vertical, or > > slightly aft. If it is slanting forward toward the tailwheel lock. Adjust > > the rod end screwed in to the tip of the oleo piston shaft. To confirm, > you > > may kick the tail wheel yoke/tire leading edge (while reversed, ie kicking > > toward the firewall) and see that it stays vertical, and seems to be > against > > a hard mechanical stop. As long as it is vertical, and will not move > forward > > of that. it is adjusted correctly > > NOW ON TO TAIL WHEEL SHIMMY. > > Seeing as how I have the entire tail wheel out on the bench. Including the > > casting formerally riveted to the belly skin. Let me tell you what I have > > found. As you may have noticed, Russian hardware is not plated in any way > to > > prevent corrosion. Thus if you do not lubricate EVERYTHING that moves on > > these airplanes the bolts WILL freeze to what ever they are in contact > with. > > How severe can this be? Bolt freezes to bearing inner race, ball/sphere > > bearing freezes to race, race then has to move so it spins in it's "press > > fit" seat. Steel race-vs-rare/expensive aluminum part it was pressed into? > > Steel wins. You loose. DO NOT BE TO LAZY TO SPRAY-AND HOPEFULLY SOAK-WD40 > > (at a minimum) ONTO EVERYTHING THAT MOVES ON THESE AIRPLANES!!! > > How dose this lead to tail wheel shimmy? Remember your tail wheel hinges > aft > > to relieve shock. At that hinge point you have a single bolt, running > > through the tailwheel mount (riveted to fuse) then through the tailwheel > > upper assembly itself. Within the upper tail wheel assembly, that bolt > runs > > inside a larger diameter sleeve/axle. All of this rides in bushings. When > > was the last time you dropped your tailwheel assembly out and > > inspected/lubed those bushings?? If you know your tail wheel lock is > tight, > > but you still get shimmy. Think about those bushings. That is the next > > source of looseness in the system, after that look at the rivets mounting > > the tailwheel to the belly skin. Even if you do not have tail wheel shimmy > > you SHOULD pull that one mounting bolt out and lube it. Remember the > > sleeve/axle inside the upper tail wheel that the bolt runs through? It is > > plain steel, as is the bolt. They WILL fuse to each other with the > strength > > of a welded joint. Save your self a TON of work, just lube the damn > thing!!! > > Just because it does not have a grease fitting DOES NOT mean it does not > > need lubrication!!! > > There are 40 plus CRITICAL areas needing lube at inspection on a Yak 50. > > These are IN ADDITION to anything that has a grease fitting!!! Interesting > > that about half these points are common with the Yak 52, but they saw fit > to > > give it grease fittings. Remember the Yak 50 was disposable, if you would > > rather not dispose of your machine then MAINTAIN IT. If it moves (even a > > little) it NEEDS some form of lubrication!! > > Cheers, > > Dean Courtney > > deancourtney696@hotmail.com > > 205-405-0701 > > P.S.Yes I have stock in the WD40 corporation and am hopping to have a good > > Christmas :) > > > > Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some > > good bets! http://shopping.msn.com > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:46 AM PST US From: Bob Fitzpatrick Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Yak 50 tailwheel shimmy --> Yak-List message posted by: Bob Fitzpatrick Yakers; There are two grease fittings on the 52 i can't get. They are the main gear pivots , accessed through the holes in the wing with the flaps down. We can't reach them by hand so i put together 2ft of 1/4 pipe with a 90deg tip that was supposed to fit metric. It looked good but would not seal. What are the rest of you doing? TIA. bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Courtney" Subject: Yak-List: RE: Yak 50 tailwheel shimmy > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney" > > Yakers, > > Wd40, chain lube, LPS 2, engine oil, lub-ra-plate. All excellent products. > The biggest point I would like to make is that they do no good while still > in the can. Give your moving parts a drink! > Both for lubrication, and for corrosion control. > Most of the major head aches/re-machining/re-manufacturing of parts we have > had to due to our Yak 50 are due to seized bearings. Those little Nickel > sized guys in your rudder horn, are the same ones at each end of the landing > gear rams on a Yak 50. Russians use all roller bearings in protected areas > (cockpit-flight controls/rudder bar) and selected spherical bearings in > exposed applications like the landing gear actuator ends, contol cable to > control surface horn, ect. > Here's the order of destruction: > Steel bolt in steel bearing- with no protective coating of oil or cad > plating on either. > Bolt fuses to bearing inner race > Bolt has to spin in its mount, galling what its mounted through and placing > dangerous wear on the bolt. > Bare steel bearing fuses to bare steel bearing race. Movement still has to > occur, so the force breaks the interference/press fit of the race to the > aluminum part. Steel eats aluminuim. > Would you rather lube the bearings, or replace the forged aluminum parts in > your landing gear? > In our 50. A frozen bearing caused a fatigue failure of the clevis that > connects the landing gear to the landing gear actuator/ram. If the bearing > can't move, something else will take the stress/wear. Do you know the part > number/availability/cost/stocking supplier of Yak 50 landing gear clevis's? > It's called pull both landing gear to remove the remaining good one, find a > quaility machinist to duplicate them from raw materials, then......$$$ Lack > of BASIC maintenance. Lubricating moving parts. After a few trips to you > favorite machinist, you become a fanatic about lubing this SH#$@%! > Remember, your US maintenance provider may be lax on this due to the fact > our AN hardware is plated. It can withstand SOME lack of attention without > seizing. Unplated Russian parts cannot. Airframe overhauls every 5 years in > the motherland averted this. A little attention to detail every 12 months > here will do as much or more. > Cheers, > Dean > deancourtney696@hotmail.com > 205-405-0701 > > From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, youll find a > range of helpful holiday info here. > http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:58 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Yak 50 tailwheel shimmy --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Bob, This is a lousy job, but someone has got to do it. Remove the cover plate behind the gear where the flexible brake line goes through. Also remove the cover plate in front of the gear mounting point. Then using a flexible grease hose (available at most auto supply stores) about 12-15" long with a straight grease coupling, you can get the coupling on the hidden grease fitting using your hands through the now open access panels. Not fun, but it does work. Be aware....you may have to remove the grease fitting and clean out the hole with safety wire and solvent AND replace the fitting if it is clogged up. Good luck. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Fitzpatrick" Subject: Re: Yak-List: RE: Yak 50 tailwheel shimmy > --> Yak-List message posted by: Bob Fitzpatrick > > Yakers; > > There are two grease fittings on the 52 i can't get. They are the main gear > pivots , accessed through the holes in the wing with the flaps down. We > can't reach them by hand so i put together 2ft of 1/4 pipe with a 90deg tip > that was supposed to fit metric. It looked good but would not seal. What > are the rest of you doing? TIA. > bob > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dean Courtney" > To: > Subject: Yak-List: RE: Yak 50 tailwheel shimmy > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney" > > > > > Yakers, > > > > Wd40, chain lube, LPS 2, engine oil, lub-ra-plate. All excellent products. > > The biggest point I would like to make is that they do no good while still > > in the can. Give your moving parts a drink! > > Both for lubrication, and for corrosion control. > > Most of the major head aches/re-machining/re-manufacturing of parts we > have > > had to due to our Yak 50 are due to seized bearings. Those little Nickel > > sized guys in your rudder horn, are the same ones at each end of the > landing > > gear rams on a Yak 50. Russians use all roller bearings in protected areas > > (cockpit-flight controls/rudder bar) and selected spherical bearings in > > exposed applications like the landing gear actuator ends, contol cable to > > control surface horn, ect. > > Here's the order of destruction: > > Steel bolt in steel bearing- with no protective coating of oil or cad > > plating on either. > > Bolt fuses to bearing inner race > > Bolt has to spin in its mount, galling what its mounted through and > placing > > dangerous wear on the bolt. > > Bare steel bearing fuses to bare steel bearing race. Movement still has to > > occur, so the force breaks the interference/press fit of the race to the > > aluminum part. Steel eats aluminuim. > > Would you rather lube the bearings, or replace the forged aluminum parts > in > > your landing gear? > > In our 50. A frozen bearing caused a fatigue failure of the clevis that > > connects the landing gear to the landing gear actuator/ram. If the bearing > > can't move, something else will take the stress/wear. Do you know the part > > number/availability/cost/stocking supplier of Yak 50 landing gear > clevis's? > > It's called pull both landing gear to remove the remaining good one, find > a > > quaility machinist to duplicate them from raw materials, then......$$$ > Lack > > of BASIC maintenance. Lubricating moving parts. After a few trips to you > > favorite machinist, you become a fanatic about lubing this SH#$@%! > > Remember, your US maintenance provider may be lax on this due to the fact > > our AN hardware is plated. It can withstand SOME lack of attention without > > seizing. Unplated Russian parts cannot. Airframe overhauls every 5 years > in > > the motherland averted this. A little attention to detail every 12 months > > here will do as much or more. > > Cheers, > > Dean > > deancourtney696@hotmail.com > > 205-405-0701 > > > > From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, youll find a > > range of helpful holiday info here. > > http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:13 AM PST US From: Robert Starnes Subject: RE: Yak-List: Wilga Parts needed --> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes What I need at the moment is brake pads, these are hydraulic disc type pads. Somebody told me they are old fiat car pads... anyway need 4 pads if you have them. - Robert Starnes --- "Genzlinger, Reade" wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Genzlinger, Reade" > > > Robert: > > I have 104-80 and have dealt directly with the > factory for a few items. > Contact me off line. > > Reade Genzlinger > Cairnwood Cooperative Corporation > 215.914.0370 > 215.790.6212 fax > readeg@cairnwood.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Starnes [mailto:a35plt@yahoo.com] > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Wilga Parts needed > > > {SPAM?} Header > --> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes > > > Doing an annual on a PZL 104 Wilga 80, Anybody out > there have a good reliable source for wilga parts, > Especially consumables such as brake pads, exhaust > stuff ? Most of it's the same as CJ stuff, Doug Sapp > will be getting a call soon! > > __________________________________ > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now > http://companion.yahoo.com/ > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > __________________________________ Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:09 AM PST US From: "Lee Taylor " Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak 50 tail wheel shimmy --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor " > > --> Yak-List message posted by: > > Good morning, > > What about the use of that sticky marine grease (i.e. OMC > Triple Guard)? It > works very well on the parts exposed to water and all kinds > of weather. Is > it safe to use on the Yak 52? > Just an addendum comment: I use the boat trailer wheel bearing grease on just about everything. Used to have some problems with long-term sitting spotting on my wheel bearings. No longer. Think about it for a minute. What sits for long periods, gets completely immersed in all kinds of water, then immediately starts spinning at very high speeds for longish periods of time? And NEVER gets maintained? Boat trailer wheels. Friend of mine was building a plane with retract spring-loaded struts. Had a flood in his home, struts were under water for a couple of days, then sat for over a year without being touched because he was repairing his house. Expected to have to build new struts after all that time in water. He had assembled them with boat grease, and when he took them apart, while they were full of dirty water, they were as shiny as the day he built them. Lee Taylor ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:13 PM PST US From: Drew Eginton Subject: Yak-List: extraordinary customer service --> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Eginton Garmin did something I rarely experience today: they stood behind the product, invested in their relationship with me, made the experience pleasant and well worth repeating. No, my girlfriend is not named Garmin. I mean the avionics vendor. I have their stuff in my Yak-50 and a gross surfeit of their stuff in my turbo Viking. The GDL-49 satcom receiver in the Viking has never captured and maintained a com link long enough to transmit anything consistently, much less the large Nexrad image files. The Orbcomm network, designed for telemetry and very low bit rate apps, seems grossly underpowered for this application. Then I read that in the new G1000 series that Garmin is using the much higher-powered, geostationary satellite operated by XM. (If memory from my satellite days is correct, they are using a big Hughes 601 bus spacecraft that was originally designed for black work in the 1980's.) Red alert: product about to be orphaned by better, more robust network! I called Garmin to explain my concerns. They're buying back the GDL-49, offering comp on the shop labor, and man, were they decent about it. I won't even bother checking out other vendors for (certified) avionics, if they are going to treat people this way. There's simply no point in experimenting with another vendor if one can be treated as well as I was treated today. I can't remember when I was treated so well by a mass marketer. I would just like to commend them publicly, and perhaps they'll be rewarded with an additional sale or two. --drew eginton Yak-50 N150YK Bellanca 17-31ATC N777ML ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:35:02 PM PST US From: Drew Eginton Subject: Yak-List: newbie questions --> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Eginton I have about 30 hours on my new Yak 50. It exceeds my expectations in most respects. I have only two design beefs: a. crosswind component is too low. Obviously, there's not much one can do about that except do the arithmetic before attempting to land, and have enough gas to try the next field. b. auto-locking tailwheel. This presumes conditions we don't have, I guess: square grass patch landing fields, or multiple runway aerodromes. (Evidently Yakovlev figured that only a dope would land a tailwheel plane crosswind.) I don't like to sacrifice one control axis, just to (alternately) deflect the elevator or turn the plane while on the ground. Has anyone re-rigged the tailwheel lock to be manual? Thanks. --drew Yak-50 N150YK =============== Drew Eginton Chairman, CEO & President Marketswitch Corporation 108 Powers Court Dulles, VA 20166 www.marketswitch.com vox: 703.444.6873 efax: 703.783.8696 assistant: Laura Meltzer: 703.444.6750 ext. 232 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:44:07 PM PST US Subject: RE: Yak-List: newbie questions From: "BUTLER, FRANCIS" --> Yak-List message posted by: "BUTLER, FRANCIS" I three point my 50 in crosswinds on a regualar basis. The wind rarely stops blowing in the Dakota's. I am not sure how your are giving up a control axis? Taxiing with the stick forward a bit to make turns isn't a big deal. The most difficult thing about the fifty is taxiing with a stiff crosswind. You have to use excessive brake on the downwind side and it fades all to quickly. But if you looking for someone that has modified the tailwheel mechanism, contact Mark Bitterlich in N.C. There are just some days the 50 should be left in the hanger. F.B. Yak 50 Trikes are for kids. -----Original Message----- From: Drew Eginton [mailto:deginton@marketswitch.com] Subject: Yak-List: newbie questions --> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Eginton I have about 30 hours on my new Yak 50. It exceeds my expectations in most respects. I have only two design beefs: a. crosswind component is too low. Obviously, there's not much one can do about that except do the arithmetic before attempting to land, and have enough gas to try the next field. b. auto-locking tailwheel. This presumes conditions we don't have, I guess: square grass patch landing fields, or multiple runway aerodromes. (Evidently Yakovlev figured that only a dope would land a tailwheel plane crosswind.) I don't like to sacrifice one control axis, just to (alternately) deflect the elevator or turn the plane while on the ground. Has anyone re-rigged the tailwheel lock to be manual? Thanks. --drew Yak-50 N150YK =============== Drew Eginton Chairman, CEO & President Marketswitch Corporation 108 Powers Court Dulles, VA 20166 www.marketswitch.com vox: 703.444.6873 efax: 703.783.8696 assistant: Laura Meltzer: 703.444.6750 ext. 232 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:23 PM PST US From: KevLCo@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 50 tail wheel shimmy --> Yak-List message posted by: KevLCo@aol.com In a message dated 12/3/2003 1:42:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, lie.buyse@pandora.be writes: > Yak-List: Yak 50 tail wheel shimmy Lieven: The grease requirements for our aircraft are not as stringent as the requirements for those aircraft reaching seriously cold temps (high altitude) or high temps (turbine exhaust/high touch down speeds). This means a good grease will do just about anything we need it to do. Keep in mind: The marine grease is a different base ingredient than most other greases (sulifide base). The different bases DO NOT play will with each other; meaning if you don't know what the last guy used in greasing, and you put on a different type grease, they may react poorly with one another and neither one ends up doing it's job. CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN..... completely remove one grease before adding or changing another if there's a question. And I like the marine grease due to the anti corrosion compound that's in it. But why experiment when Aeroshell makes a great line of greases made specifically for aircraft applications? Aeroshell 5, 7 and 11 are great greases that have corrosion compounds, excellent surface tension, heat ranges that far surpass what we require, etc. Just a thought.... after considering the alternatives, the cost might be worth it to you, maybe even a cheap insurance. Just make sure that you make an entry in your logbook for the next poor SOB that gets the grease card, letting him know what kind of grease you're using this year.... Kevin N152YK Vegas, Baby! Yeah!