---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/15/03: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:28 AM - Re: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question (Boyd Braem) 2. 01:45 AM - CJ smoke systems (Jay McIntyre) 3. 04:56 AM - Re: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question (Rick Basiliere) 4. 05:49 AM - Louvers... (Tim Gagnon) 5. 06:44 AM - Yak-52M (scott.huff@aivia.aero) 6. 07:01 AM - Re: Yak-52M (A. Dennis Savarese) 7. 07:07 AM - Re: Yak-52M (Stuart Mackereth) 8. 07:08 AM - Re: Yak-52M (Stuart Mackereth) 9. 07:27 AM - Re: CJ smoke systems (cjpilot710@aol.com) 10. 08:10 AM - Merry Christmas (cjpilot710@aol.com) 11. 08:34 AM - Yak 52M photo/data (gpa) 12. 08:44 AM - Re: Louvers... (Doug Sapp) 13. 08:51 AM - Yak 52M (gpa) 14. 09:10 AM - Re: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question (gpa) 15. 09:32 AM - Re: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question (jay reiter) 16. 10:16 AM - Re: Merry Christmas (Jorgen Nielsen) 17. 09:10 PM - Re: louvers (Yakjock) 18. 09:57 PM - Re: louvers (Bruce Campbell) 19. 10:13 PM - Re: louvers (Sam Sax) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:28:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question From: Boyd Braem --> Yak-List message posted by: Boyd Braem Well, Jesus, that's what you do when you want a new prop (insurance pays, I would hope). Boyd. On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 02:46 AM, Stuart Mackereth wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Stuart Mackereth" > > > Yep, this happened to me just the other day.. the gills blew closed in > the circuit, and interestingly I noticed the CHT's shoot up into deep > red before noticing any change in the Oil Temps? And they dropped back > very quickly when reopening the gills. Preflight, preflight, > preflight... > > On another note, an acquaintence had a gear up on this last weekend in > his 52 .. and he's looking for paddles (without the hub), if anyone has > anyone has any old ones lying about (after your MT upgrade, of course) > or any good prices, plz contact me off list. Tks > > [I was there at the scene, and was quite amazed at how well the gear up > landing system works! No loss of control at all - and a nice shower of > sparks from the flaps!] > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schrick > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to > have" that is the question > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Schrick" > > The new Yak 52TW DOES NOT have louvers mostly due for the WWII look of > the airframe. What it does have is gills in the back of the cowling > exits to act as cowl flaps. This has worked for the 52TW and for other > Russian radial engines. The standard louvers of a Yak 52 still work > better than even the cowl flaps on a Yak 52TW. The key idea is if you > have louvers....KEEP THEM ON and maintain them often. They are > important > both in cold and warm conditions. > > Maintain your friction control also, if it were to loosen in flight, > the > control can creep back and close the gills causing the oil temp to > reach > dangerous conditions. I have seen this happen. The friction lock is > critical to precise engine temp control. > > Good luck, > > Mark "SHREK" Schrick > Aerostar Western Region Dealer of Yak 52TW & > Fully overhauled Yak's, "We help you meet your budget" > > YAK Driver, Inc > 966 Wallace Drive > San Jose, Ca 95120-1848 > Hm/Fax (408) 323-5150 > Cell (408) 391-6664 > Email schrick@pacbell.net > Website www.YAKDRIVER.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Hancock > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: louvers > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock > > > On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server > wrote: > >> PSS, I'm not flying right now due to lack of gill louvers. > > I've seen 3 or 4 Yak/CJ's without the louvers and just scratched my > head. There's usually sound engineering principals behind major > systems > > in an airplane...right? The Russians might be, well, Russian, but they > ain't dumb. If they weren't necessary then I would think > some newer aircraft (Yak-52TW) would go without a way to control CHT. > > But hey, if you only want to fly when it's warm...... > Barry Hancock > Director of Operations > Red Stars, Inc. > 949.300.5510 > www.allredstar.com > "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes" > > > > == > direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. > == > == > == > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _-> _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > Boyd. RV-Super 6 Venice, FL do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:37 AM PST US From: "Jay McIntyre" Subject: Yak-List: CJ smoke systems --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jay McIntyre" Hi all... This has probably been discussed before, but afew of us down here in NZ are looking to fit smoke tanks to our CJ's . Rather than re-invent the wheel I thought I would canvas those of you who have already done so. Specifically, where did you fit the tank? What size tank did you use? What did you use to move the smoke oil from the tank? Anyone out there used the aircraft pneumatic system to do this (much like drop tanks)??? Any advise/suggestions would be much appreciated. And for any Aussie operators listening/lurking out there, let me know if you would be interested as the greater the number the lower the price Regards, Jay P.S. see you at Classic Fighters 2005! www.classicfighters.co.nz Surf the net and talk on the phone with Xtra Jetstream @ http://www.xtra.co.nz/jetstream ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:13 AM PST US From: "Rick Basiliere" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question --> Yak-List message posted by: "Rick Basiliere" I'd sell one of my freshly OH'd MTV-3-250 so I could upgrade the Sukhoi. Contact me off list if you would like. Rick B -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stuart Mackereth Subject: RE: Yak-List: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question --> Yak-List message posted by: "Stuart Mackereth" Yep, this happened to me just the other day.. the gills blew closed in the circuit, and interestingly I noticed the CHT's shoot up into deep red before noticing any change in the Oil Temps? And they dropped back very quickly when reopening the gills. Preflight, preflight, preflight... On another note, an acquaintence had a gear up on this last weekend in his 52 .. and he's looking for paddles (without the hub), if anyone has anyone has any old ones lying about (after your MT upgrade, of course) or any good prices, plz contact me off list. Tks [I was there at the scene, and was quite amazed at how well the gear up landing system works! No loss of control at all - and a nice shower of sparks from the flaps!] -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Schrick Subject: Yak-List: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Schrick" The new Yak 52TW DOES NOT have louvers mostly due for the WWII look of the airframe. What it does have is gills in the back of the cowling exits to act as cowl flaps. This has worked for the 52TW and for other Russian radial engines. The standard louvers of a Yak 52 still work better than even the cowl flaps on a Yak 52TW. The key idea is if you have louvers....KEEP THEM ON and maintain them often. They are important both in cold and warm conditions. Maintain your friction control also, if it were to loosen in flight, the control can creep back and close the gills causing the oil temp to reach dangerous conditions. I have seen this happen. The friction lock is critical to precise engine temp control. Good luck, Mark "SHREK" Schrick Aerostar Western Region Dealer of Yak 52TW & Fully overhauled Yak's, "We help you meet your budget" YAK Driver, Inc 966 Wallace Drive San Jose, Ca 95120-1848 Hm/Fax (408) 323-5150 Cell (408) 391-6664 Email schrick@pacbell.net Website www.YAKDRIVER.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Hancock Subject: Yak-List: louvers --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock On Saturday, December 13, 2003, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote: > PSS, I'm not flying right now due to lack of gill louvers. I've seen 3 or 4 Yak/CJ's without the louvers and just scratched my head. There's usually sound engineering principals behind major systems in an airplane...right? The Russians might be, well, Russian, but they ain't dumb. If they weren't necessary then I would think some newer aircraft (Yak-52TW) would go without a way to control CHT. But hey, if you only want to fly when it's warm...... Barry Hancock Director of Operations Red Stars, Inc. 949.300.5510 www.allredstar.com "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes" = == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:22 AM PST US From: "Tim Gagnon" Subject: Yak-List: Louvers... Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:49:07 -0500 --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" You could always install an Iris! We are on the -50! Tim Yak-50 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:24 AM PST US From: scott.huff@aivia.aero Subject: Yak-List: Yak-52M --> Yak-List message posted by: scott.huff@aivia.aero I was browsing photos of Yaks on www.airliners.net and stumbled across a picture of a Yak-52M. I will post the photo to the share for everyone's enjoyment. Any listers out there have information on this variant? Is this a one-off model or possibly a proof-of-concept for future production? Looks like it is sporting a side hinged bubble canopy & ejection seats. Also, it appears as if the main landing gear retracts inward, possibly flush with the bottom of the wing like the CJ. I assume this particular variant has the 400hp engine as well. Thanks in advance for any information. Regards, Scott Huff ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:34 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak-52M --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" I believe I read that according to recent press releases, Yakovlev intends to repurchase 80-100 original YAK 52's and have them converted to YAK 52M's. These will be the interim military trainers until the new SU-49, which is the chosen new military trainer, is fully operational. Hopefully this information is relatively accurate. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Yak-List: Yak-52M > --> Yak-List message posted by: scott.huff@aivia.aero > > I was browsing photos of Yaks on www.airliners.net and stumbled across a > picture of a Yak-52M. I will post the photo to the share for everyone's > enjoyment. Any listers out there have information on this variant? Is this a > one-off model or possibly a proof-of-concept for future production? > > Looks like it is sporting a side hinged bubble canopy & ejection seats. Also, > it appears as if the main landing gear retracts inward, possibly flush with the > bottom of the wing like the CJ. I assume this particular variant has the 400hp > engine as well. > > Thanks in advance for any information. > > Regards, > Scott Huff > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:21 AM PST US From: "Stuart Mackereth" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-52M --> Yak-List message posted by: "Stuart Mackereth" This is the new version of the Yak - just ordered by russia for basic training again, I believe, due to escalating costs of the primary Jets. Refer: http://www.flightinternational.com/FALANDING_171032.htm http://www.flightinternational.com/FALANDING_169097.htm And this comes straight from the Yak website: YAK 52M - Aerobatic and trainer aircraft General: Yak-52M aircraft is intended for professional selection and primary training of future pilots as well as for aerobatic training of sportsmen. Yak-52M is a two-seater, single engine monoplane of classical configuration with low wing, retractable tricycle landing gear with nose wheel and the M-14X engine. Good shock-absorbing properties of the landing gear with low pressure tires, short takeoff and landing run make it possible to operate the aircraft on small unprepared airfields. High reliability, simple structure, access to the system units and pipelines ensure easy maintenance with minimum costs for flight preparation with minimum available ground servicing equipment. The wing aerodynamic configuration, wing planform and airfoil have been selected to provide the aircraft functions of primary training and aerobatics. It is planned to use the Yak-52M aircraft in aero clubs and flying schools that makes it possible to train skilled pilots and sports aircraft pilots in a short period of time at minimum costs. Modernization: The aircraft presents Yak-52 modification and differs from the original by the following: 50% of airborne equipment is renewed that provides for flights in adverse weather conditions at night; the new canopy is installed to ensure safe bailout with the help of escape system; the -94 escape system is installed to enhance crew safety; the integral tanks are embodied in wing structure that increase range of flight up to 900 km; the rudder area is increased ; the blind flying cap is installed; three-blade V-9 propeller is installed; the wing aerodynamics is changed for stall performance improvement. Basic Data: Yak-52 for training for aerobatic Takeoff weight 1 423 kg 1 315 kg Engine power 360 h.p. - Max speed 360 km/h - Stalling speed 110 km/h - Limit loads +6/-4 g +7/-5 g Maximum fuel load 190 liters 80 liters Maximum ferry range 900 km - Takeoff/landing run 180/300 m - Service life 3 000 hours - Calendar life 30 years - ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:26 AM PST US From: "Stuart Mackereth" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Yak-52M --> Yak-List message posted by: "Stuart Mackereth" On another note.. If anyone can get hold of these new bubble canopies, let me know. tks -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of scott.huff@aivia.aero Subject: Yak-List: Yak-52M --> Yak-List message posted by: scott.huff@aivia.aero I was browsing photos of Yaks on www.airliners.net and stumbled across a picture of a Yak-52M. I will post the photo to the share for everyone's enjoyment. Any listers out there have information on this variant? Is this a one-off model or possibly a proof-of-concept for future production? Looks like it is sporting a side hinged bubble canopy & ejection seats. Also, it appears as if the main landing gear retracts inward, possibly flush with the bottom of the wing like the CJ. I assume this particular variant has the 400hp engine as well. Thanks in advance for any information. Regards, Scott Huff = == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:55 AM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ smoke systems --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com In a message dated 12/15/2003 4:47:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, jayatnowra@hotmail.com writes: Hi all... This has probably been discussed before, but afew of us down here in NZ are looking to fit smoke tanks to our CJ's . Rather than re-invent the wheel I thought I would canvas those of you who have already done so. Specifically, where did you fit the tank? What size tank did you use? What did you use to move the smoke oil from the tank? Anyone out there used the aircraft pneumatic system to do this (much like drop tanks)??? Any advise/suggestions would be much appreciated. And for any Aussie operators listening/lurking out there, let me know if you would be interested as the greater the number the lower the price Jay, I made a tank the same size as the old ADF box and used the same rack that the ADF was on. The tank held just over 5 gals and with oil weighted 35 pounds. Since the old ADF weighted some 45 pounds, the rack was more than capable of handling the stress. The filler neck for the tank comes out of the front upper right conner of the tank and ends inside at the conner of the right access door (It open with two Duzus fasteners). It is just forward of the ADF access panel. I use an old electric fuel pump and mounted it by that same door. The hose runs from the tank to the pump to the valve that was used originally for the oil dilution system, (I had no need for at all). The electric's is set up so that when I lip the switch I send power to the pump and the valve at the same time. You might want the nozzles high in the exhaust pipes. How these are made (size holes and tip design) you'll get difference of opinion. Jim Goolsby "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes until some woman stomps all over them." Unknown older man. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:57 AM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: Merry Christmas keith.goolsby@eds.com, gaf127enl@msn.com, MDSHELLEY@aol.com, yakjock@msn.com, walterfricke@yahoo.com, finleycj6@juno.com, BDorsey777@aol.com, dabear@damned.org, tcalloway@hangar-d.com, mason.t@worldnet.att.net, wpairprt@tdstelme.net, radialpower@cox.net, FamilyGage@aol.com, rvfltd@televar.com, cd001633@mindspring.com, ernest.martinez@oracle.com, FOUGAPILOT@aol.com, N23GD@yahoo.com, jtobul@tobul.com, KILOUSMC@aol.com, davedris@cavtel.net, pino1@compuserve.com, RAre406906@aol.com, JGoolsby@umaryland.edu, artziggy6@yahoo.com, vicky@shippei.com, paraisoam@surfbest.net, EdrisDee@aol.com, Ckelso17@earthlink.net, Csvanschaick@aol.com --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com Well, we had our annual Christmas party here at our airpark. We have a Christmas parade too. This year we had 7 floats (up from 6 last year). Last year I won first prize for the best float, It was my bass boat made to look like 3 mast square rigged Clipper ship. I had a poem too (Merry Christmas Fly Boy) which I read while wearing a leather flight helmet, jacket, scarf, and a big set of wings. This year I got second place (lost out to Santa in a flying saucier?) This year I built a replica of a Wright Flyer (scaled down of course) and put it on my bass boat. It looked great! I had a poem again and it went thus: Taw's 12 days before Christmas nineteen-O-three. And out on some sand dunes Things were a happening That affects you and me. Two brothers were conspiring up there In Kitty Hawk Land That would effect for all time, All their fellow man. But little is known about the debate between the brother two. And what finally happened and The contraption that finally flew. You see Wilber was determined On a specific design. What he saw as the most beneficial For all mankind. While Orville being more methodical about design. Was just more anxious in getting the Damn thing to mind. "Its drag is way too high. You know that coefficient stuff. And the power to weight ratio, Well, it's just not high enough." Plus that contraption below, is way aft of C/G Controlling this bitch. Will be hard Believe you-me!" "No. No." insisted Wilber, It will most surely will fly" Believe me, time will show, this is the best way to go." Well, despite what you might think. Wilber's design wouldn't fly worth a wink. And try and try as he might, It couldn't and wouldn't Take flight. In desperation Orville finely took command. It was nearing Christmas, And he wanted out of this Sand blown land. "Give me that thing" insisted Orville. "Get that contraption off the bottom" I've figured this out. No more need ponder. And get me to that hill over yonder!" Well, the rest is history as we know it. Minus of course, Wilber's idea or two. The Wright Flyer - as we know it - flew. So after much research in archives unknown. I present to you the contraption, That might have first flown. If only - that first engine Had simply been turbo blown. You seaplane pilots still have no room to gloat. And although Wilber's contraption Could definitely float. For in the end what Wilber, early wanted, was simply- a really fast- Bass boat. Marry Christmas everybody! Jim Goolsby "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes until some woman stomps all over them." Unknown older man. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:26 AM PST US From: "gpa" Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52M photo/data --> Yak-List message posted by: "gpa" Here is a link to the new Yak 52M direct from the A.S. Yakolev Design Bureau that doesn't require you to subscribe to read the details or see an image. http://www.yak.ru/ENG/PROD/new_52m.php Regards, Greg Arnold **************************************************************************** To do is to be --Marx To do be do be do --Sinatra ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:06 AM PST US From: "Doug Sapp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Louvers... --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" I have one (just one) spare Iris type Titanium gill set due to an mistake in shipping, anyone interested contact me off line. Always Yakin, Doug Sapp -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Gagnon Subject: Yak-List: Louvers... --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" You could always install an Iris! We are on the -50! Tim Yak-50 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:18 AM PST US From: "gpa" Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52M --> Yak-List message posted by: "gpa" From the Yak design Bureau the photographs of the Yak 52M looks as though they haven't changed the original wheel retract configuration. They post a "service life" of 3,000 hrs and a "calender life" of 30 years...Hmm Regards, Greg Arnold ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:01 AM PST US From: "gpa" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question --> Yak-List message posted by: "gpa" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Mackereth" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Stuart Mackereth" > > Yep, this happened to me just the other day.. the gills blew closed in > the circuit, and interestingly I noticed the CHT's shoot up into deep > red before noticing any change in the Oil Temps? And they dropped back > very quickly when reopening the gills. Preflight, preflight, > preflight... > It is amazing how easy that will occur if you don't keep that friction lock good and tight. I wonder if there could be any engine damage that occurs from a short spike and quick cooling as you described? Greg Arnold ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:06 AM PST US From: "jay reiter" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Louvers for Yak 52's and CJ6's "To have or not to have" that is the question --> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" Look for broken cooling fins on some engines shock cooling breaks fins. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:51 AM PST US From: "Jorgen Nielsen" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Merry Christmas --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" Excellent! -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com keith.goolsby@eds.com; gaf127enl@msn.com; MDSHELLEY@aol.com; yakjock@msn.com; walterfricke@yahoo.com; finleycj6@juno.com; BDorsey777@aol.com; dabear@damned.org; tcalloway@hangar-d.com; mason.t@worldnet.att.net; wpairprt@tdstelme.net; radialpower@cox.net; FamilyGage@aol.com; rvfltd@televar.com; cd001633@mindspring.com; ernest.martinez@oracle.com; FOUGAPILOT@aol.com; N23GD@yahoo.com; jtobul@tobul.com; KILOUSMC@aol.com; davedris@cavtel.net; pino1@compuserve.com; RAre406906@aol.com; JGoolsby@umaryland.edu; artziggy6@yahoo.com; vicky@shippei.com; paraisoam@surfbest.net; EdrisDee@aol.com; Ckelso17@earthlink.net; Csvanschaick@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: Merry Christmas --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com Well, we had our annual Christmas party here at our airpark. We have a Christmas parade too. This year we had 7 floats (up from 6 last year). Last year I won first prize for the best float, It was my bass boat made to look like 3 mast square rigged Clipper ship. I had a poem too (Merry Christmas Fly Boy) which I read while wearing a leather flight helmet, jacket, scarf, and a big set of wings. This year I got second place (lost out to Santa in a flying saucier?) This year I built a replica of a Wright Flyer (scaled down of course) and put it on my bass boat. It looked great! I had a poem again and it went thus: Taw's 12 days before Christmas nineteen-O-three. And out on some sand dunes Things were a happening That affects you and me. Two brothers were conspiring up there In Kitty Hawk Land That would effect for all time, All their fellow man. But little is known about the debate between the brother two. And what finally happened and The contraption that finally flew. You see Wilber was determined On a specific design. What he saw as the most beneficial For all mankind. While Orville being more methodical about design. Was just more anxious in getting the Damn thing to mind. "Its drag is way too high. You know that coefficient stuff. And the power to weight ratio, Well, it's just not high enough." Plus that contraption below, is way aft of C/G Controlling this bitch. Will be hard Believe you-me!" "No. No." insisted Wilber, It will most surely will fly" Believe me, time will show, this is the best way to go." Well, despite what you might think. Wilber's design wouldn't fly worth a wink. And try and try as he might, It couldn't and wouldn't Take flight. In desperation Orville finely took command. It was nearing Christmas, And he wanted out of this Sand blown land. "Give me that thing" insisted Orville. "Get that contraption off the bottom" I've figured this out. No more need ponder. And get me to that hill over yonder!" Well, the rest is history as we know it. Minus of course, Wilber's idea or two. The Wright Flyer - as we know it - flew. So after much research in archives unknown. I present to you the contraption, That might have first flown. If only - that first engine Had simply been turbo blown. You seaplane pilots still have no room to gloat. And although Wilber's contraption Could definitely float. For in the end what Wilber, early wanted, was simply- a really fast- Bass boat. Marry Christmas everybody! Jim Goolsby "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes until some woman stomps all over them." Unknown older man. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:40 PM PST US From: "Yakjock" Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers --> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" I talked about the CJ louvers with a well known aeronautical engineer up at Arlington last Summer. His observation was that modern designers put the controls at the back rather than the front as it is much more efficient. US warplanes had the cowls in back, as does the 52TW. In his view one of the biggest drag components on the CJ is at the back of the cowling along the sides. Airflow coming through the engine structures hits a flat panel and exits out around a 90 degree bend (the firewall where it joins the outer fuselage) and creates swirls and drag along the side of the plane. Hal Morley CJ-6A "8" (503) 704-6559 cell ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:32 PM PST US From: "Bruce Campbell" Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" I would point out that for an aerobatic aircraft, the lowest possible drag is seldom a design goal. You want to ballance low enough drag that the speed is available for the manuever with enough drag that speed doesnt build up excessively. Note the two original aerobatic aircraft of choice, the Stearman and the Pitts. Not low drag designs at all. Bruce Campbell Yak 52 N82623 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yakjock" Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" > > I talked about the CJ louvers with a well known aeronautical engineer up at Arlington last Summer. His observation was that modern designers put the controls at the back rather than the front as it is much more efficient. US warplanes had the cowls in back, as does the 52TW. In his view one of the biggest drag components on the CJ is at the back of the cowling along the sides. Airflow coming through the engine structures hits a flat panel and exits out around a 90 degree bend (the firewall where it joins the outer fuselage) and creates swirls and drag along the side of the plane. > > > Hal Morley > CJ-6A "8" > > (503) 704-6559 cell > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:33 PM PST US From: "Sam Sax" Subject: RE: Yak-List: louvers --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" Yet another point - the front louvers maybe more drag but far better shock cooling protection than rear cowl flaps, an important point if you fly in Siberia or practice to perfect your dive bombing techniques... Sam Sax -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell" I would point out that for an aerobatic aircraft, the lowest possible drag is seldom a design goal. You want to ballance low enough drag that the speed is available for the manuever with enough drag that speed doesnt build up excessively. Note the two original aerobatic aircraft of choice, the Stearman and the Pitts. Not low drag designs at all. Bruce Campbell Yak 52 N82623 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yakjock" Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" > > I talked about the CJ louvers with a well known aeronautical engineer up at Arlington last Summer. His observation was that modern designers put the controls at the back rather than the front as it is much more efficient. US warplanes had the cowls in back, as does the 52TW. In his view one of the biggest drag components on the CJ is at the back of the cowling along the sides. Airflow coming through the engine structures hits a flat panel and exits out around a 90 degree bend (the firewall where it joins the outer fuselage) and creates swirls and drag along the side of the plane. > > > Hal Morley > CJ-6A "8" > > (503) 704-6559 cell > >