Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:33 AM - Re: louvers (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 07:27 AM - Re: louvers (Brian Lloyd)
3. 07:42 AM - Re: louvers (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 07:51 AM - Re: louvers (Brian Lloyd)
5. 08:04 AM - Re: louvers (A. Dennis Savarese)
6. 09:40 AM - compromise (jay reiter)
7. 10:34 AM - Re: compromise (gpa)
8. 11:06 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 12/15/03 (Jerry Painter)
9. 11:19 AM - fuel feed (Doug Sapp)
10. 11:32 AM - Re: louvers (Brian Lloyd)
11. 11:34 AM - Re: compromise (Brian Lloyd)
12. 12:01 PM - Re: fuel feed (Ernie)
13. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 12/15/03 (A. Dennis Savarese)
14. 01:45 PM - Re: Cooling issues (WSC/Dr. Herb Coussons)
15. 02:13 PM - Housai mag switches (David Stroud)
16. 03:24 PM - Re: Housai mag switches (Doug Sapp)
17. 06:23 PM - Russian Power (cpayne@joimail.com)
18. 06:46 PM - Re: fuel feed (cjpilot710@aol.com)
19. 07:11 PM - Re: louvers (Rick Basiliere)
20. 07:43 PM - Re: fuel feed (Boyd Braem)
21. 08:51 PM - Re: fuel feed (Walt Lannon)
22. 08:58 PM - Re: fuel feed (A. Dennis Savarese)
23. 09:27 PM - Re: fuel feed (Doug Sapp)
24. 09:27 PM - Re: fuel feed (Walt Lannon)
25. 09:41 PM - Re: Russian Power (Sam Sax)
26. 09:46 PM - Re: fuel feed (Roger Bieberdorf)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Not to sound argumentative here, but LONG before the firewall ever gets to
contribute to the drag, wouldn't the cylinders and the baffling cause the
brunt of the drag? I'm not saying the 90 degree exit you speak of doesn't
contribute somewhat, but in the grand scheme of things, what causes the most
drag is what restricts the airflow the most and that's the engine and
baffling. The louvers will add some drag, but how much more than cylinders
and baffling?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
>
> I talked about the CJ louvers with a well known aeronautical engineer up
at Arlington last Summer. His observation was that modern designers put the
controls at the back rather than the front as it is much more efficient.
US warplanes had the cowls in back, as does the 52TW. In his view one of
the biggest drag components on the CJ is at the back of the cowling along
the sides. Airflow coming through the engine structures hits a flat panel
and exits out around a 90 degree bend (the firewall where it joins the outer
fuselage) and creates swirls and drag along the side of the plane.
>
>
> Hal Morley
> CJ-6A "8"
>
> (503) 704-6559 cell
>
>
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
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From: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> Not to sound argumentative here, but LONG before the firewall ever gets to
> contribute to the drag, wouldn't the cylinders and the baffling cause the
> brunt of the drag? I'm not saying the 90 degree exit you speak of doesn't
> contribute somewhat, but in the grand scheme of things, what causes the most
> drag is what restricts the airflow the most and that's the engine and
> baffling. The louvers will add some drag, but how much more than cylinders
> and baffling?
If you do a proper plenum design, you slow the cooling air (high volume, low velocity)
before it reaches the baffling and the cylinders. This optimizes heat
transfer and keeps the drag as low as possible at that point. After the cylinders
you want to have a smooth constriction so that the cooling air accelerates
again until it is traveling as near to the TAS of the aircraft as possible
so that it can reenter the slipstream without causing too much turbulence. The
angle and the velocity of the cooling air are critical at this point. This
is what causes most of the drag from cooling airflow.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
And is it your position that the CJ and the YAK 52 meet the proper plenum
design criteria as you've described?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
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> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:27:20 -0400
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
> >
> > Not to sound argumentative here, but LONG before the firewall ever gets
to
> > contribute to the drag, wouldn't the cylinders and the baffling cause
the
> > brunt of the drag? I'm not saying the 90 degree exit you speak of
doesn't
> > contribute somewhat, but in the grand scheme of things, what causes the
most
> > drag is what restricts the airflow the most and that's the engine and
> > baffling. The louvers will add some drag, but how much more than
cylinders
> > and baffling?
>
> If you do a proper plenum design, you slow the cooling air (high volume,
low velocity) before it reaches the baffling and the cylinders. This
optimizes heat transfer and keeps the drag as low as possible at that point.
After the cylinders you want to have a smooth constriction so that the
cooling air accelerates again until it is traveling as near to the TAS of
the aircraft as possible so that it can reenter the slipstream without
causing too much turbulence. The angle and the velocity of the cooling air
are critical at this point. This is what causes most of the drag from
cooling airflow.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
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From: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> And is it your position that the CJ and the YAK 52 meet the proper plenum
> design criteria as you've described?
No. They are awful.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
I believe that's what I was saying, but didn't have the engineering data or
talent for that matter to discuss optimum design criteria. Thus, the
front of the engine and its baffling cause the majority of the drag, not
that which hits the firewall and exits at 90 degrees out the cowl cheeks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Vexira NOTICE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> This version of Vexira MailArmor is a DEMO version and not full featured.
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> Antivirus for Mail servers this message will be deactivated.
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>
> Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 11:51:18 -0400
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
> >
> > And is it your position that the CJ and the YAK 52 meet the proper
plenum
> > design criteria as you've described?
>
> No. They are awful.
>
> --
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
> brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
> GMT-4
>
>
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
There is no perfection in aviation everything is a compromise of some sort. The
ideal cooling system may add weight or length that out weigh its improvement.
The Russians design philosophy includes quantity has a quality of its own.
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "gpa" <catfsh4u@bellsouth.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
Subject: Yak-List: compromise
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
>
> There is no perfection in aviation everything is a compromise of some
sort.
Yep, that's my wife's motto as well...
Greg Arnold
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: Yak-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 12/15/03 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
The "Venetian blind" arrangement on the 52TW cowling outlet is a complete
bust. Flat doesn't work. The object was to open up the front of the cowling
so you could see the engine, but the solution isn't a solution at all. The
linkage isn't strong enough for the loads, so the flap really isn't
adjustable in flight and can't be closed at cruise. No temp control. Their
"solution" for that problem was to install a rubber seal around the cowling
periphery to try to keep temps UP, making it *impossible* to remove or
reinstall the cowling. Even then the cowling leaks so bad temps are too
low, even in summer (i.e., Seattle *summer*). Would stronger linkage fix
it? Who cares--it's a dumb design and probably contributes to the TW's
ridiculously low cruise speed.
Marketing trumped engineering for no good purpose resulting in a useless
cowling replacing a reasonably good one.
As we all know, the stock vane setup works extremely well for temp control
and probably reduces differential cylinder cooling. Cruising around with
the vanes almost closed, the inlet is more like a bad leak than an inlet.
No doubt the low pressure area at the back of the cowling works very well at
forcing airflow even with the vanes nearly closed (big sucking sound). Big
drag producer. I'm told by folks who've removed the inlet vanes that they
get an increase in cruise speed at the expense of temp control and some loss
of structural rigidity, so the whole cowling must be a big drag producer.
Just think of the pressure differentials front to back. I think its fair to
say that although the cowling arrangement works well for temp control its
not the best design feature of the aircraft.
You'll note that on a typical radial engine rear cowl flap design the flaps
fair into the cowling/fuselage when closed resulting in low drag. Still,
the pressure inside the cowling often prevents complete closing of the flaps
at cruise. If 52's/CJ's had the cowling fair to the fuselage and rear cowl
flaps they would undoubtedly get a big increase in cruise speed with equally
good temp control.
Jerry Painter
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Listers and lurkers,
I am working on a mod to solve the problem of dissimilar fuel feed. After
talking to several CJ drivers I was surprised to find that not all are
having the same feed problem in the same direction. One I spoke with stated
that in 250 hours he had never seen a situation wherein he needed to move
fuel from his left to his tight tank, his problem was ALWAYS the reverse.
Another seemed to feel the opposite was the case in his experience. It
would be a big help if anyone out there who has had a problem with
dissimilar fuel feed in their CJ would drop me a line off list and let me
know the details. Does one tank ALWAYS seem to be the fuller one? if Yes
which tank?
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
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From: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> I believe that's what I was saying, but didn't have the engineering data or
> talent for that matter to discuss optimum design criteria. Thus, the
> front of the engine and its baffling cause the majority of the drag, not
> that which hits the firewall and exits at 90 degrees out the cowl cheeks.
I could very well be wrong but I think that the cooling air egress *is* the bulk
of the problem. The louvers actually do a pretty good job of reducing the cooling
air inlet area and allow the formation of a plenum that slows the airflow
and increases pressure. In fact, a restriction like a big spinner would help
even more. For an example, see Rare Bear. The primary purpose is to have
a small cooling air inlet that opens out smoothly into a much larger plenum.
That allows the cooling air to slow down and increase pressure so you have a much
lower velocity going through the fins of the cylinders. Because you are dealing
with a much smaller volume of air, you have less drag. The low velocity
enhances heat transfer too. Now, once the air passes through the fins you want
to smoothly constrict it so that it speeds up again.
The whole thing looks like (and functions like) a reverse venturi that is wider
in the middle. The air slows down and the pressure increases which helps the
air flow through the cylinders' cooling fins. After the cooling air passes the
engine you need to constrict the outflow in order to speed it up again, hopefully
achieving a significant percentage of the original airspeed. Now you want
to reintroduce this cooling airflow to the slipstream around the airplane
in such a way that you do not generate turbulence. This means a smooth transition.
At first blush the cheeks of the cowl look like a good idea to me. Are they the
right shape and size? Dunno, but they should start the airflow in the correct
direction. If I were trying to really reduce cooling drag I would probably
add some sort of rounded fairing right on the firewall in order to smooth the
transition and I would probably reduce the cross-section of the outflow area
as well as extend it back.
But now we are talking about making a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Neither the
CJ6A nor the Yak-52 will ever likely become racers. (Sorry Craig but someone
had to say it.)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
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From: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: compromise
jay reiter wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
>
> There is no perfection in aviation everything is a compromise of some
> sort. The ideal cooling system may add weight or length that out
> weigh its improvement. The Russians design philosophy includes
> quantity has a quality of its own.
True, and we know it works just fine. An optimized cooling system makes a lot
more sense on a racer or a cross-country airplane than it does on a trainer or
aerobatic airplane.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza, Suite 201
brian@lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 - voice +1.360.838.9669 - fax
GMT-4
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Doug,
I found that my fuel feed problem was directly coupled to trim. I used to
always fed from my left tank more than the right. When I adjusted the
aileron trim tab I was able to move the problem to the other side. Playing
with the rudder and aileron trim tabs I was able to stabilize the fuel feed,
but after about 50 hours of flight, aerodynamic forces seem to move the tabs
ending up in an out of trim situation again.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Yak-List: fuel feed
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Listers and lurkers,
> I am working on a mod to solve the problem of dissimilar fuel feed. After
> talking to several CJ drivers I was surprised to find that not all are
> having the same feed problem in the same direction. One I spoke with
stated
> that in 250 hours he had never seen a situation wherein he needed to move
> fuel from his left to his tight tank, his problem was ALWAYS the reverse.
> Another seemed to feel the opposite was the case in his experience. It
> would be a big help if anyone out there who has had a problem with
> dissimilar fuel feed in their CJ would drop me a line off list and let me
> know the details. Does one tank ALWAYS seem to be the fuller one? if Yes
> which tank?
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Yak-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 12/15/03 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Plus they started using the centrifugal advance M9-35 mags and removed the
shower of sparks coil. Centrifugal advance mags work well with an electric
starter because it can spin the engine at a higher rate vs. our pneumatic
system. The standard M9F mags and shower of sparks have worked great for
years. Many TW owners are complaining about how hard it is to start.
Excuse for changing to the -35 mags was "later technology". Another dumb
move.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
Subject: Yak-List: RE: Yak-List Digest: 19 Msgs - 12/15/03
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" <wild.blue@verizon.net>
>
> The "Venetian blind" arrangement on the 52TW cowling outlet is a complete
> bust. Flat doesn't work. The object was to open up the front of the
cowling
> so you could see the engine, but the solution isn't a solution at all.
The
> linkage isn't strong enough for the loads, so the flap really isn't
> adjustable in flight and can't be closed at cruise. No temp control.
Their
> "solution" for that problem was to install a rubber seal around the
cowling
> periphery to try to keep temps UP, making it *impossible* to remove or
> reinstall the cowling. Even then the cowling leaks so bad temps are too
> low, even in summer (i.e., Seattle *summer*). Would stronger linkage fix
> it? Who cares--it's a dumb design and probably contributes to the TW's
> ridiculously low cruise speed.
>
> Marketing trumped engineering for no good purpose resulting in a useless
> cowling replacing a reasonably good one.
>
> As we all know, the stock vane setup works extremely well for temp control
> and probably reduces differential cylinder cooling. Cruising around with
> the vanes almost closed, the inlet is more like a bad leak than an inlet.
> No doubt the low pressure area at the back of the cowling works very well
at
> forcing airflow even with the vanes nearly closed (big sucking sound).
Big
> drag producer. I'm told by folks who've removed the inlet vanes that they
> get an increase in cruise speed at the expense of temp control and some
loss
> of structural rigidity, so the whole cowling must be a big drag producer.
> Just think of the pressure differentials front to back. I think its fair
to
> say that although the cowling arrangement works well for temp control its
> not the best design feature of the aircraft.
>
> You'll note that on a typical radial engine rear cowl flap design the
flaps
> fair into the cowling/fuselage when closed resulting in low drag. Still,
> the pressure inside the cowling often prevents complete closing of the
flaps
> at cruise. If 52's/CJ's had the cowling fair to the fuselage and rear
cowl
> flaps they would undoubtedly get a big increase in cruise speed with
equally
> good temp control.
>
> Jerry Painter
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cooling issues |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "WSC/Dr. Herb Coussons" <drc@wscare.com>
To the 52 and 52 TW owners.
I am glad to see this topic come up. I have a 52 TW and during the summer
we noted difficulty keeping the oil temps cool but no problems keeping the
cylinders cool. In fact in straight and level flight with cowl flaps closed
the CHTs ran bottom of the green. The oil cooler was full open and ran in
the top of the green with power set at 30 inches / 1900 RPMs
Now in the winter (Green Bay, WI - you know the frozen tundra just north of
Siberia) with cowl flaps and oil cooler closed CHT's top of the yellow and
oil temps bottom 1/3 of the green. I know the issues with oil cooler change
from the wing root to the bottom center just behind the exhaust stacks. And
now I see the issues with the rear cowl flaps vs. the front shutters. Has
anyone addressed the cooling and airflows in the 52TW? Is it even a problem
to run the engine like this? If anyone has any info I would be glad to
listen or talk about it off line as I do not these long conversations over
the e-mail.
HSC
N52DD
Message 15
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| Subject: | Housai mag switches |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
Could someone please say if a Housai / CJ-6 mag switch is pretty much the same
item as
that for a Lyc or Continental or is there something unique about it ? Thanks.
Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia Mk 1 C-FDWS
Fairchild 51, early construction
Message 16
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| Subject: | Housai mag switches |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
I have Nanchang mag switches in stock if you want them.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Stroud
Subject: Yak-List: Housai mag switches
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
Could someone please say if a Housai / CJ-6 mag switch is pretty much the
same item as
that for a Lyc or Continental or is there something unique about it ?
Thanks.
Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia Mk 1 C-FDWS
Fairchild 51, early construction
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com
A Short Survey,
If you have a Russian engine with russian logbook, page 25
should contain the test cell results for the various power
settings. The engine I have installed currently on my CJ is
the "mild" one at 372HP. What does your logbook say?
Overhauled engines also should have been shipped with a
detailed set of additional results, separate from the
logbook that match the logbook entry.
Inquiring Minds want to know.
Craig Payne
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
The T-34 guys have the same problems. I believe the B model has basically
the same fuel system as the CJ-6. This was also noted during the CJ-6 prototype
flying. Its trim. One T-34 guru I know, actually balances his tanks in
route, by adjusting his rudder trim.
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Rick Basiliere" <discrab@earthlink.net>
Respectfully, I'm not convinced. Both the Stearman and the Pitts aren't
really competitive any more. A few Pitts try Advanced in the US, and if I
remember can't compete (read: can't place) at the AWAC. Yak-55 kicks butt
at AWAC and is kinda draggy. Look at WAC results in Lakeland, FL this year.
Sukhoi's rule, even the 2 seat -29 was competitive for the Lithuanians.
With 10,000 hrs in 100's of different types my Sukhoi is the lowest drag a/c
I've had the pleasure to fly. BTW, I've flown akro in the Stearman and
competed in a Pitts - just until I came to my senses and bought my first
Soviet a/c - Yak-52.
Slippery Soviet Ships Rock. Rick SU-29 N55SU, Yak-55 155AR
PS: (speed)Design goal if you desire to win, also I dive into the box
@420kph wish I could use 450. I've found out I can pull power for
tailslides, stalls, and inside/outside snaps on the vertical down line. A-B
rule of power control, right guys?
Now we've started something. :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Campbell
Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bruce Campbell"
<baruch@intelligentflight.com>
I would point out that for an aerobatic aircraft, the lowest possible drag
is seldom a design goal. You want to ballance low enough drag that the speed
is available for the manuever with enough drag that speed doesnt build up
excessively.
Note the two original aerobatic aircraft of choice, the Stearman and the
Pitts. Not low drag designs at all.
Bruce Campbell
Yak 52 N82623
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: louvers
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
>
> I talked about the CJ louvers with a well known aeronautical engineer up
at Arlington last Summer. His observation was that modern designers put the
controls at the back rather than the front as it is much more efficient.
US warplanes had the cowls in back, as does the 52TW. In his view one of
the biggest drag components on the CJ is at the back of the cowling along
the sides. Airflow coming through the engine structures hits a flat panel
and exits out around a 90 degree bend (the firewall where it joins the outer
fuselage) and creates swirls and drag along the side of the plane.
>
>
> Hal Morley
> CJ-6A "8"
>
> (503) 704-6559 cell
>
>
Message 20
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Boyd Braem <bcbraem@comcast.net>
Are you nuts?--fly a T-34C. T-34 A/B can't get out of their own way.
Love,
Boyd.
On Tuesday, December 16, 2003, at 09:46 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> The T-34 guys have the same problems. I believe the B model has
> basically
> the same fuel system as the CJ-6. This was also noted during the CJ-6
> prototype
> flying. Its trim. One T-34 guru I know, actually balances his tanks
> in
> route, by adjusting his rudder trim.
>
> x
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Hey Doug;
In talking to the pilots whose CJ's I look after, and my own limited
X'country experience in the aircraft, I find that it is invariably the right
tank that is reluctant to feed.
One CJ owner very recently made a long flight and tried a new technique for
trim control. He left his feet on the floor! The reported result - perfectly
even fuel feed.
His CJ is one that I have completely gone through for fuel feed problems
including flapper valves, vent line cleaning, feed hose levelling, aircraft
levelling and T&B adjustment, trim tab adjustment, etc. It was good but
would still, at times, show an imbalance.
So, since I get pissed when things don't work like I expect, I have fixed
the problem (I think). The mod will be flight tested over the next few
months and I will advise whether you buy the whiskey or I eat some crow.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Yak-List: fuel feed
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Listers and lurkers,
> I am working on a mod to solve the problem of dissimilar fuel feed. After
> talking to several CJ drivers I was surprised to find that not all are
> having the same feed problem in the same direction. One I spoke with
stated
> that in 250 hours he had never seen a situation wherein he needed to move
> fuel from his left to his tight tank, his problem was ALWAYS the reverse.
> Another seemed to feel the opposite was the case in his experience. It
> would be a big help if anyone out there who has had a problem with
> dissimilar fuel feed in their CJ would drop me a line off list and let me
> know the details. Does one tank ALWAYS seem to be the fuller one? if Yes
> which tank?
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
>
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Hey Walt....is the mod putting 2" Velcro on the bottom of the shoes and on
the front floor? That would assure "feet on the floor" and possibly and
even fuel feed. Pretty cool idea Walt. I wonder why no one else ever
"thunk that up".
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: fuel feed
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
>
> Hey Doug;
>
> In talking to the pilots whose CJ's I look after, and my own limited
> X'country experience in the aircraft, I find that it is invariably the
right
> tank that is reluctant to feed.
> One CJ owner very recently made a long flight and tried a new technique
for
> trim control. He left his feet on the floor! The reported result -
perfectly
> even fuel feed.
> His CJ is one that I have completely gone through for fuel feed problems
> including flapper valves, vent line cleaning, feed hose levelling,
aircraft
> levelling and T&B adjustment, trim tab adjustment, etc. It was good but
> would still, at times, show an imbalance.
> So, since I get pissed when things don't work like I expect, I have fixed
> the problem (I think). The mod will be flight tested over the next few
> months and I will advise whether you buy the whiskey or I eat some crow.
> Cheers;
> Walt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> To: "Yak list" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: fuel feed
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> >
> > Listers and lurkers,
> > I am working on a mod to solve the problem of dissimilar fuel feed.
After
> > talking to several CJ drivers I was surprised to find that not all are
> > having the same feed problem in the same direction. One I spoke with
> stated
> > that in 250 hours he had never seen a situation wherein he needed to
move
> > fuel from his left to his tight tank, his problem was ALWAYS the
reverse.
> > Another seemed to feel the opposite was the case in his experience. It
> > would be a big help if anyone out there who has had a problem with
> > dissimilar fuel feed in their CJ would drop me a line off list and let
me
> > know the details. Does one tank ALWAYS seem to be the fuller one? if
Yes
> > which tank?
> >
> > Always Yakin,
> > Doug Sapp
> >
> >
>
>
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Walt,
Crows all went south with the first snow, plenty of whisky tho.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Walt Lannon
Subject: Re: Yak-List: fuel feed
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Hey Doug;
In talking to the pilots whose CJ's I look after, and my own limited
X'country experience in the aircraft, I find that it is invariably the right
tank that is reluctant to feed.
One CJ owner very recently made a long flight and tried a new technique for
trim control. He left his feet on the floor! The reported result - perfectly
even fuel feed.
His CJ is one that I have completely gone through for fuel feed problems
including flapper valves, vent line cleaning, feed hose levelling, aircraft
levelling and T&B adjustment, trim tab adjustment, etc. It was good but
would still, at times, show an imbalance.
So, since I get pissed when things don't work like I expect, I have fixed
the problem (I think). The mod will be flight tested over the next few
months and I will advise whether you buy the whiskey or I eat some crow.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Yak-List: fuel feed
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Listers and lurkers,
> I am working on a mod to solve the problem of dissimilar fuel feed. After
> talking to several CJ drivers I was surprised to find that not all are
> having the same feed problem in the same direction. One I spoke with
stated
> that in 250 hours he had never seen a situation wherein he needed to move
> fuel from his left to his tight tank, his problem was ALWAYS the reverse.
> Another seemed to feel the opposite was the case in his experience. It
> would be a big help if anyone out there who has had a problem with
> dissimilar fuel feed in their CJ would drop me a line off list and let me
> know the details. Does one tank ALWAYS seem to be the fuller one? if Yes
> which tank?
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
>
Message 24
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Hi Dennis;
Maybe feet on the floor is the best mod., the price is right. That was Mark
Williston's idea, not mine, and maybe the best one yet.
Mine is a little more complicated and time consuming - more if it works!
Walt
\---- Original Message -----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: fuel feed
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net>
>
> Hey Walt....is the mod putting 2" Velcro on the bottom of the shoes and on
> the front floor? That would assure "feet on the floor" and possibly and
> even fuel feed. Pretty cool idea Walt. I wonder why no one else ever
> "thunk that up".
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: fuel feed
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
> >
> > Hey Doug;
> >
> > In talking to the pilots whose CJ's I look after, and my own limited
> > X'country experience in the aircraft, I find that it is invariably the
> right
> > tank that is reluctant to feed.
> > One CJ owner very recently made a long flight and tried a new technique
> for
> > trim control. He left his feet on the floor! The reported result -
> perfectly
> > even fuel feed.
> > His CJ is one that I have completely gone through for fuel feed problems
> > including flapper valves, vent line cleaning, feed hose levelling,
> aircraft
> > levelling and T&B adjustment, trim tab adjustment, etc. It was good but
> > would still, at times, show an imbalance.
> > So, since I get pissed when things don't work like I expect, I have
fixed
> > the problem (I think). The mod will be flight tested over the next few
> > months and I will advise whether you buy the whiskey or I eat some crow.
> > Cheers;
> > Walt
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> > To: "Yak list" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Yak-List: fuel feed
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> > >
> > > Listers and lurkers,
> > > I am working on a mod to solve the problem of dissimilar fuel feed.
> After
> > > talking to several CJ drivers I was surprised to find that not all are
> > > having the same feed problem in the same direction. One I spoke with
> > stated
> > > that in 250 hours he had never seen a situation wherein he needed to
> move
> > > fuel from his left to his tight tank, his problem was ALWAYS the
> reverse.
> > > Another seemed to feel the opposite was the case in his experience.
It
> > > would be a big help if anyone out there who has had a problem with
> > > dissimilar fuel feed in their CJ would drop me a line off list and let
> me
> > > know the details. Does one tank ALWAYS seem to be the fuller one? if
> Yes
> > > which tank?
> > >
> > > Always Yakin,
> > > Doug Sapp
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 25
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Craig,
Just checked my M-14P logbook (Aerostar, purchased New) - Test cell run
indicated 391HP at 2900 RPM and 99% power.
Does that mean I got a 'marginal' 400HP engine for the price of a 360?? :)
Sam Sax
Miami, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Russian Power
--> Yak-List message posted by: cpayne@joimail.com
A Short Survey,
If you have a Russian engine with russian logbook, page 25
should contain the test cell results for the various power
settings. The engine I have installed currently on my CJ is
the "mild" one at 372HP. What does your logbook say?
Overhauled engines also should have been shipped with a
detailed set of additional results, separate from the
logbook that match the logbook entry.
Inquiring Minds want to know.
Craig Payne
Message 26
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Bieberdorf <rogerbyak@yahoo.com>
You know; I have read about unbalanced fuel flow since I got my CJ in 1996. I
guess I considered myself blessed, because I didn't have the problem. I also consider
myself blessed because I have always been able to fly the CJ in the flat
footed position when in cruise. Flat footed is a relaxing position in the
cramped seat of a CJ is you are over 6 foot tall. Therefore; should there be
a scientific consideration that must be searched that includes:
1. The height of CJ pilots that have problems with uneven fuel flow?
2. Power setting in cruise flight normally used by CJ pilots that have problems
with uneven fuel flow?
3. Or a combination of the above?
rb
"A. Dennis Savarese" <adsavar@gte.net> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
Hey Walt....is the mod putting 2" Velcro on the bottom of the shoes and on
the front floor? That would assure "feet on the floor" and possibly and
even fuel feed. Pretty cool idea Walt. I wonder why no one else ever
"thunk that up".
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walt Lannon"
Subject: Re: Yak-List: fuel feed
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon"
>
> Hey Doug;
>
> In talking to the pilots whose CJ's I look after, and my own limited
> X'country experience in the aircraft, I find that it is invariably the
right
> tank that is reluctant to feed.
> One CJ owner very recently made a long flight and tried a new technique
for
> trim control. He left his feet on the floor! The reported result -
perfectly
> even fuel feed.
> His CJ is one that I have completely gone through for fuel feed problems
> including flapper valves, vent line cleaning, feed hose levelling,
aircraft
> levelling and T&B adjustment, trim tab adjustment, etc. It was good but
> would still, at times, show an imbalance.
> So, since I get pissed when things don't work like I expect, I have fixed
> the problem (I think). The mod will be flight tested over the next few
> months and I will advise whether you buy the whiskey or I eat some crow.
> Cheers;
> Walt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Sapp"
> To: "Yak list"
> Subject: Yak-List: fuel feed
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp"
> >
> > Listers and lurkers,
> > I am working on a mod to solve the problem of dissimilar fuel feed.
After
> > talking to several CJ drivers I was surprised to find that not all are
> > having the same feed problem in the same direction. One I spoke with
> stated
> > that in 250 hours he had never seen a situation wherein he needed to
move
> > fuel from his left to his tight tank, his problem was ALWAYS the
reverse.
> > Another seemed to feel the opposite was the case in his experience. It
> > would be a big help if anyone out there who has had a problem with
> > dissimilar fuel feed in their CJ would drop me a line off list and let
me
> > know the details. Does one tank ALWAYS seem to be the fuller one? if
Yes
> > which tank?
> >
> > Always Yakin,
> > Doug Sapp
> >
> >
>
>
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