---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/17/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:08 AM - Re: National Warbird Operator Conference (Ernie) 2. 05:09 AM - YAK WON'T START (PSalter@aol.com) 3. 05:17 AM - EGTs (Jay Land) 4. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: won't start (A. Dennis Savarese) 5. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: won't start (KevLCo@aol.com) 6. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: won't start (A. Dennis Savarese) 7. 08:12 AM - Hard starting (Jerry Painter) 8. 09:45 AM - Re: National Warbird Operator Conference (Brian Lloyd) 9. 10:01 AM - Re: YAK WON'T START (Jorgen Nielsen) 10. 10:20 AM - Shower of sparks (Brian Lloyd) 11. 02:27 PM - Re: EGTs (Terry Calloway) 12. 02:43 PM - Re: EGTs (Gus Fraser) 13. 03:16 PM - Re: EGTs (Jay Land) 14. 03:17 PM - Re: EGTs (Jay Land) 15. 03:51 PM - Re: EGTs (Ernie) 16. 04:14 PM - Re: EGTs (Jay Land) 17. 05:30 PM - Re: EGTs (Ernie) 18. 06:12 PM - YAK WON'T START (Frank Haertlein) 19. 08:29 PM - Re: Shower of sparks (Ron Davis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:20 AM PST US From: "Ernie" Subject: Re: Yak-List: National Warbird Operator Conference --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" I beleive Miami is on the Right coast. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Yak-List: National Warbird Operator Conference > --> Yak-List message posted by: KingCJ6@aol.com > > In a message dated 2/16/2004 6:52:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, > aapilot@adelphia.net writes: > moving (To MIA), > ************** > > What's this? Selling out to become a left coaster?? > > Dave > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:41 AM PST US From: PSalter@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: YAK WON'T START --> Yak-List message posted by: PSalter@aol.com Frank, Cutting the end off the starter vibrator lead at the mag and reattaching will hopefully solve your starting problem. Trimming the burned end off the lead solved my starting problem in 1999 and I have not had problems since. Phil Salter Yak 52 N2504U ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:01 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: EGTs From: Jay Land --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land I am going to install a dual EGT gauge and probes on my 285. Any recommendations on locations for the two probes? Thanks, Jay Land ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:40 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: won't start --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" You are 110% correct on that one! After one changes their first compressor they will understand. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "D Zeman" Subject: Yak-List: Re: won't start > --> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman > > I don't recommend starting with both mags on, unless > you don't mind taking the compressor off to replace > the shear pins; one result of kick-backs. > > Regards, > D. > > __________________________________ > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:16 AM PST US From: KevLCo@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: won't start --> Yak-List message posted by: KevLCo@aol.com and what does one do when you hand-prop for start?????? start with the mags off? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:18 AM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: won't start --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" Yes. The manual rotation of the prop is the substitute for the lack of air pressure to rotate the engine. One presses the start button thus engaging the shower of sparks. When the prop is rotated manually and the engine fires from the shower of sparks, the mags are switched to 1+2. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Yak-List: Re: won't start > --> Yak-List message posted by: KevLCo@aol.com > > and what does one do when you hand-prop for start?????? start with the mags > off? > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:58 AM PST US From: "Jerry Painter" Subject: Yak-List: Hard starting --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerry Painter" Frank, One very obvious possibility that I haven't seen mentioned is to check you battery and connections. With a low battery or poor connections the shower of sparks will buzz and seem normal during a static check, but won't provide the voltage needed for a start. Kickback is typical of an engine trying to start on mags alone, which are timed for running, not starting. That's why you have the shower of sparks--the spark is retarded for starting. Also, communist ignition wires are notoriously short lived. Check them for leaks. Start with the obvious things first--spark and fuel. Jerry Painter Wild Blue Aviation ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:02 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: Yak-List: National Warbird Operator Conference --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd Ernie wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" > > I believe Miami is on the Right coast. I think you are zeroing in on it. For left-wingers on the left coast it is: left is right and right is wrong. That will help you keep it straight in your mind. -- Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brian@lloyd.com Suite 201 http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802 +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax) There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:08 AM PST US From: "Jorgen Nielsen" Subject: RE: Yak-List: YAK WON'T START --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" I recently (currently) also had a problem with shower of sparks system. It worked up to the mag. Symptoms were consistent with yours. The problem was/is the connection into the mag. Fixed it last weekend I thought, first start OK, but second start same problem. My problem is the diameter of wire going into the mag from the shower of sparks coil (mounted on inside firewall bottom left), it is thinner than others I have seen so does not make a good mechanical connection. When screwing the locating screw in, it pushes the wire to the side and does not make good contact. I have made up a mod here at home which I will fit this weekend (cut down ferrule & extra wire + insulation which I plan to attach to end of wire). If you have right diameter wire the fix mentioned below will work great, and may need to be done anyway if repeated disassembly / assembly has been performed, leading to a loose and subsequently bad / burnt connection. Jorgen -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PSalter@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: YAK WON'T START --> Yak-List message posted by: PSalter@aol.com Frank, Cutting the end off the starter vibrator lead at the mag and reattaching will hopefully solve your starting problem. Trimming the burned end off the lead solved my starting problem in 1999 and I have not had problems since. Phil Salter Yak 52 N2504U == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:31 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Yak-List: Shower of sparks --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd In the discussion of starting problems it may be a good thing to remember that this is not a shower-of-sparks system which has a vibrator exciting the primary circuit of the magneto when the points open. The system used on our aircraft is more akin to the old Ford model-T spark coil where the output is actually high-voltage going to a different contact on the distributor rotor. Since this is a high-voltage connection instead of a low-voltage p-lead connection there is a strong possibility of high-voltage arc-over in the cable thus rendering the starting coil nonfunctional. -- Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza brian@lloyd.com Suite 201 http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802 +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax) There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:18 PM PST US From: "Terry Calloway" Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land < jland@popeandland.com > >> >> I am going to install a dual EGT gauge and probes on my 285. Sure, the left probe goes in the left side and right probe goes in the right side. Pumper ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:27 PM PST US From: "Gus Fraser" Subject: RE: Yak-List: EGTs --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" Do you have a mixture control on the CJ ? When I fitted a fuel flow on my 52 I decided not to add the EGT gauge because there is nothing you can do about it except monitor it. I just trust that I run at peak egt :))) Gus -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jay Land Subject: Yak-List: EGTs --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land I am going to install a dual EGT gauge and probes on my 285. Any recommendations on locations for the two probes? Thanks, Jay Land ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs From: Jay Land --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land Yes the CJ's have a mixture control > From: "Gus Fraser" > Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:43:07 -0500 > To: > Subject: RE: Yak-List: EGTs > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" > > Do you have a mixture control on the CJ ? When I fitted a fuel flow on my 52 > I decided not to add the EGT gauge because there is nothing you can do about > it except monitor it. I just trust that I run at peak egt :))) > > Gus > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jay Land > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: EGTs > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land > > I am going to install a dual EGT gauge and probes on my 285. > > Any recommendations on locations for the two probes? > > Thanks, > > Jay Land > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs From: Jay Land --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land Was that from "Martinass"? Oh no, I see it's from "Callowass"! ;) > From: "Terry Calloway" > Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:26:20 -0600 > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land < jland@popeandland.com > >>> >>> I am going to install a dual EGT gauge and probes on my 285. > > Sure, the left probe goes in the left side and right probe goes in the > right side. > Pumper > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:53 PM PST US From: "Ernie" Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" Hey "Landass" how did I get mixed up in this thread????? Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Land" Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs > --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land > > Was that from "Martinass"? Oh no, I see it's from "Callowass"! ;) > > > From: "Terry Calloway" > > Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com > > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:26:20 -0600 > > To: > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" > > > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land < jland@popeandland.com > > >>> > >>> I am going to install a dual EGT gauge and probes on my 285. > > > > Sure, the left probe goes in the left side and right probe goes in the > > right side. > > Pumper > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs From: Jay Land --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land I just lobbed one right down the middle and Terry hit it out of the park and it reminded me of you! How's the Jet Driving? I guess they don't have EGT's? From the cheap seats, Jay > From: "Ernie" > Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:51:29 -0500 > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" > > Hey "Landass" how did I get mixed up in this thread????? > > Ernie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay Land" > To: > Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land >> >> Was that from "Martinass"? Oh no, I see it's from "Callowass"! ;) >> >>> From: "Terry Calloway" >>> Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com >>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:26:20 -0600 >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" > >>> >>> >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land < jland@popeandland.com > >>>>> >>>>> I am going to install a dual EGT gauge and probes on my 285. >>> >>> Sure, the left probe goes in the left side and right probe goes in the >>> right side. >>> Pumper >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:14 PM PST US From: "Ernie" Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" Sure do have EGT's. great big one, very important in a jet. Ernie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Land" Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs > --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land > > I just lobbed one right down the middle and Terry hit it out of the park and > it reminded me of you! > > How's the Jet Driving? I guess they don't have EGT's? > > From the cheap seats, > > Jay > > > From: "Ernie" > > Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com > > Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:51:29 -0500 > > To: > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs > > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" > > > > Hey "Landass" how did I get mixed up in this thread????? > > > > Ernie > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jay Land" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs > > > > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land > >> > >> Was that from "Martinass"? Oh no, I see it's from "Callowass"! ;) > >> > >>> From: "Terry Calloway" > >>> Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com > >>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:26:20 -0600 > >>> To: > >>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs > >>> > >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" > > > >>> > >>> > >>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land < jland@popeandland.com > > >>>>> > >>>>> I am going to install a dual EGT gauge and probes on my 285. > >>> > >>> Sure, the left probe goes in the left side and right probe goes in the > >>> right side. > >>> Pumper > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:35 PM PST US From: "Frank Haertlein" Subject: Yak-List: YAK WON'T START --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" Ok guys, This one's a real brain teaser. I removed all the front plugs and then re-attached the plug leads to them. They were just hanging around the front of the engine. The leads are the 5MM silicone one's I recently used to replace the original, burned, wires. I did cut about 1/2 inch of wire from the lead thinking it was somehow grounding out in the cap due to excess length or pinching of the wire during assembly. While a friend was sitting in the cockpit pressing the start button I turned the prop by hand while watching the sparks on the plugs. As the prop went around I could see each plug fire in the proper sequence (Now I know why they call it a shower of sparks!). This leads me to one of two conclusions.......... The timing is way off or I have bad gas (BUURRRRP...excuse me). I'm going to recheck the mag timing while accounting for the system slop and see what happens. Thanks Guys :) Frank N9110M ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:24 PM PST US From: "Ron Davis" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Shower of sparks --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" Could you say that again? The Ford model T shower of sparks WAS a vibrator on the primary, which turned DC into a poor grade alternating current (alternating up to 6 volts and back down to zero) because transformers (coils) don't work on DC. The model T, like modern high performance car engines, and unlike the CJ engine, had a coil for each cylinder and didn't have a distributor.