Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:45 AM - SM2000-Turbine 18T (Richard Goode)
2. 06:56 AM - Re: EGTs (Terry Calloway)
3. 07:52 AM - Re: SM2000-Turbine 18T (Ernest Martinez)
4. 08:25 AM - Re: EGTs (Brian Lloyd)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: EGTs (Sam Sax)
6. 08:46 AM - Re: Shower of sparks (Brian Lloyd)
7. 08:57 AM - Re: EGTs (Ernest Martinez)
8. 09:00 AM - Re: EGTs (Terry Calloway)
9. 10:04 AM - Re: EGTs (Sam Sax)
10. 10:08 AM - Sam's Comments Re:EGT-JPI (Tom Noonan)
11. 10:39 AM - Re: Sam's Comments Re:EGT-JPI (Brian Lloyd)
12. 10:48 AM - Re: EGTs (Brian Lloyd)
13. 11:00 AM - Re: Sam's Comments Re:EGT-JPI (Ernest Martinez)
14. 12:38 PM - Re: Sam's Comments Re:EGT-JPI (Brian Lloyd)
15. 12:50 PM - Mixture (Joe Howse)
16. 04:53 PM - Re: Sam's Comments Re:EGT-JPI (Terry Lewis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | SM2000-Turbine 18T |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
SM2000-Turbine 18T
This is a totally new aircraft, using only the central fuselage of the 18T.
240-knot cruise; take off and land at max gross in 350 yards; climbs at 2,500ft
per minute at max gross.
Currently going through full international certification - if anyone wants more
details - please contact us directly.
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Newport House
Almeley
Herefordshire
HR3 6LL
United Kingdom
richard.goode@russianaeros.com
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 322200
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 322208
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by the http://www.anti84787.com
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <TCalloway@datatechnique.com>
>>> ernest.martinez@oracle.com 2/17/2004 7:29:55 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" < ernest.martinez@oracle.com >
Sure do have EGT's. great big one, very important in a jet.
Ernie
Right! COLD is bad. :)
Pumper
Message 3
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| Subject: | SM2000-Turbine 18T |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
How much??
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Subject: Yak-List: SM2000-Turbine 18T
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Goode"
<richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
SM2000-Turbine 18T
This is a totally new aircraft, using only the central fuselage of the
18T.
240-knot cruise; take off and land at max gross in 350 yards; climbs at
2,500ft per minute at max gross.
Currently going through full international certification - if anyone
wants more details - please contact us directly.
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Newport House
Almeley
Herefordshire
HR3 6LL
United Kingdom
richard.goode@russianaeros.com
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 322200
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 322208
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by the http://www.anti84787.com
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
==
==
==
==
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jay Land wrote:
> How's the Jet Driving? I guess they don't have EGT's?
They have Turbine inlet temperature (TIT) and (perhaps) interstage turbine temperature
(ITT). (This varies from engine to engine.) Next to oil pressure these
are just about the most important gauges for the engine.
BTW, WRT EGT probe placement in a Huosai engine, it isn't particularly critical
unless you are going to do an EGT probe per cylinder. If you aren't going to
that, having more than one probe is not particularly useful.
In more detail, since the supercharger serves to vaporize and mix the fuel vapor
before it reaches the intake risers, the mixture distribution in the engine
is very uniform. You don't get different information on mixture from the different
probes. Having a multi-probe EGT at that point is more useful as a diagnostic
tool, not as a tool for setting the mixture on a per-cylinder basis, but
*only* if you have a probe per cylinder. A two-probe EGT is not more useful
than a single-probe EGT.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Brian wrote
In more detail, since the supercharger serves to vaporize and mix the fuel
vapor before it reaches the intake risers, the mixture distribution in the
engine is very uniform. You don't get different information on mixture from
the different probes
--
I have the JPI EGT/CHT instrument with both probes in each cylinder.
Although the mixture may be uniform (Supercharger), I do get variations with
EGT - the difference between hottest to coldest can reach 150 degrees,
particularly in over 5000' climbs. CHT varies as well with mode of flight.
Sam Sax.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Shower of sparks |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Ron Davis wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
>
> Could you say that again? The Ford model T shower of sparks WAS a vibrator
> on the primary, which turned DC into a poor grade alternating current
> (alternating up to 6 volts and back down to zero) because transformers
> (coils) don't work on DC. The model T, like modern high performance car
> engines, and unlike the CJ engine, had a coil for each cylinder and didn't
> have a distributor.
With a shower-of-sparks system used in Lycoming and Continental engines found in
US GA aircraft the vibrator coil works on the primary of the mag and the mag
coil provides the step-up through the secondary coil produce the high-voltage.
The shower-of-sparks itself has no secondary and depends on the presence of
the coil in the mag to produce the high-voltage needed to fire the plug.
The starting coil used in the Huosai engine has both primary and secondary. Its
output is high-voltage fed directly to the distributor. In this the starting
coil is like an old model-T spark coil.
The model-T engines I have seen did have a single spark coil with a distributor.
The distributor had a set of points that closed when the spark was supposed
to happen and thus applied power to the spark coil which then produces a continuous
spark until the points open again. The spark timing was controlled by
a lever on the steering column that changed the spark advance. When starting
you had to retard the spark timing all the way or the engine would fire BTDC and
break your arm. Drivers would sometimes forget but the engine would remind
them.
Timing of the starting spark circuit in the Huosai engine is very sloppy as it
is handled by the high-voltage distributor rotor which has a second set of contacts
for starting that is substantially retarded from the main contact. Once
you press the start button, the starting spark coil produces a high-voltage spark
continuously.
Don't expect the engine to run well on the starting circuit.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
In an Axial flow engine you would have TIT and ITT, but in centrifugal
flow designs, you just have an EGT. The probes stick right out of the
exhaust nozzle aft of the turbine. Pretty simple heh!
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: EGTs
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Jay Land wrote:
> How's the Jet Driving? I guess they don't have EGT's?
They have Turbine inlet temperature (TIT) and (perhaps) interstage
turbine temperature (ITT). (This varies from engine to engine.) Next
to oil pressure these are just about the most important gauges for the
engine.
BTW, WRT EGT probe placement in a Huosai engine, it isn't particularly
critical unless you are going to do an EGT probe per cylinder. If you
aren't going to that, having more than one probe is not particularly
useful.
In more detail, since the supercharger serves to vaporize and mix the
fuel vapor before it reaches the intake risers, the mixture distribution
in the engine is very uniform. You don't get different information on
mixture from the different probes. Having a multi-probe EGT at that
point is more useful as a diagnostic tool, not as a tool for setting the
mixture on a per-cylinder basis, but *only* if you have a probe per
cylinder. A two-probe EGT is not more useful than a single-probe EGT.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
==
==
==
==
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <TCalloway@datatechnique.com>
Sam,
Just for information, is yours a Housi 285? If so what are your peak
EGT numbers and where do you typically run?
Somewhere around 75 degrees rich of peaK?
tc
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Terry,
My CJ has the M-14P... No mixture control...:(
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry Calloway
Subject: RE: Yak-List: EGTs
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway"
<TCalloway@datatechnique.com>
Sam,
Just for information, is yours a Housi 285? If so what are your peak
EGT numbers and where do you typically run?
Somewhere around 75 degrees rich of peaK?
tc
Message 10
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| Subject: | Sam's Comments re:EGT-JPI |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Noonan" <noonan@berk.com>
I'm interested in Sam's comments regarding the JPI. I have a 9 cylinder JPI
in my CJ with 285 HP Housai. As far as an EGT is concerned it is almost
useless since the Housai engine cannot be leaned enough to get the basic
first setting on the JPI. No matter how much I lean my engine out I can't
get the revs to drop or the engine to run rough enough to set the reference
setting required. What am I( doing wrong?
Tom Noonan
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Sam's Comments re:EGT-JPI |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Tom Noonan wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Noonan" <noonan@berk.com>
>
> I'm interested in Sam's comments regarding the JPI. I have a 9
> cylinder JPI in my CJ with 285 HP Housai. As far as an EGT is
> concerned it is almost useless since the Housai engine cannot be
> leaned enough to get the basic first setting on the JPI. No matter
> how much I lean my engine out I can't get the revs to drop
You should never be able to get the revs to drop because the prop governor will
adjust the prop to maintain RPM.
> or the engine to run rough enough to set the reference setting
> required.
If the mixture distribution is even across all cylinders, you should never be able
to get the engine to run roughly. Power will decrease but the engine should
still run smoothly. Rough running comes from each cylinder having a different
mixture and a different power output.
> What am I( doing wrong?
Nothing. It probably means that you just can't lean the mixture enough. I could
get the mixture just a hair leaner than peak EGT in my Huosai. Check the mixture
linkage and verify it can move through its entire range.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Ernest Martinez wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> In an Axial flow engine you would have TIT and ITT, but in centrifugal
> flow designs, you just have an EGT. The probes stick right out of the
> exhaust nozzle aft of the turbine. Pretty simple heh!
Some of the early engines were quite simple.
It doesn't really depend on whether the engine is axial-flow or centrifugal-flow
since that only affects the compressor stage. OTOH, since centrifugal-flow engines
tend to be much simpler, i.e. fewer turbine stages, they usually have simpler
instrumentation. Multi-stage turbines usually have both TIT and ITT.
It all depends on what the engineers thought the engine needed.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Sam's Comments re:EGT-JPI |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
If I'm at full throttle (high altitude 7500ft) and I lean to the stop,
my engine will quit! I still have the tab installed.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Sam's Comments re:EGT-JPI
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Tom Noonan wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Noonan" <noonan@berk.com>
>
> I'm interested in Sam's comments regarding the JPI. I have a 9
> cylinder JPI in my CJ with 285 HP Housai. As far as an EGT is
> concerned it is almost useless since the Housai engine cannot be
> leaned enough to get the basic first setting on the JPI. No matter
> how much I lean my engine out I can't get the revs to drop
You should never be able to get the revs to drop because the prop
governor will adjust the prop to maintain RPM.
> or the engine to run rough enough to set the reference setting
> required.
If the mixture distribution is even across all cylinders, you should
never be able to get the engine to run roughly. Power will decrease but
the engine should still run smoothly. Rough running comes from each
cylinder having a different mixture and a different power output.
> What am I( doing wrong?
Nothing. It probably means that you just can't lean the mixture enough.
I could get the mixture just a hair leaner than peak EGT in my Huosai.
Check the mixture linkage and verify it can move through its entire
range.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
==
==
==
==
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Sam's Comments re:EGT-JPI |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Ernest Martinez wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernest Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> If I'm at full throttle (high altitude 7500ft) and I lean to the stop,
> my engine will quit!
Sounds like your mixture control will lean the engine enough then.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Joe Howse <joeh@shaw.ca>
Both the H6A and the M14 have mixture adjustments at the carb. for both cruise
and idle settings.
Joe
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Sam's Comments re:EGT-JPI |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Lewis" <talew@comcast.net>
My manual shows a cruise mixture adjustment on the
front side of the carb for the CJ . This is accessed between the
two bottom cylinders . You may need to adjust this needle
to get the full mixture range.
Terry Lewis
From: "Tom Noonan" <noonan@berk.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Sam's Comments re:EGT-JPI
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Noonan" <noonan@berk.com>
>
> I'm interested in Sam's comments regarding the JPI. I have a 9 cylinder
JPI
> in my CJ with 285 HP Housai. As far as an EGT is concerned it is almost
> useless since the Housai engine cannot be leaned enough to get the basic
> first setting on the JPI. No matter how much I lean my engine out I can't
> get the revs to drop or the engine to run rough enough to set the
reference
> setting required. What am I( doing wrong?
>
> Tom Noonan
>
>
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