Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:49 AM - Procedures ingrained into your head.... (Frank Haertlein)
2. 07:53 AM - Sun-n-fun (Patrick Scofield)
3. 07:54 AM - Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... (SWP013@aol.com)
4. 08:00 AM - Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... (cjpilot710@aol.com)
5. 08:11 AM - Re: Sun-n-fun (cjpilot710@aol.com)
6. 08:37 AM - Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... (cjpilot710@aol.com)
7. 08:53 AM - Re: Sun-n-fun (Bill Fischer)
8. 09:32 AM - Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... (jay reiter)
9. 01:30 PM - G suits (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
10. 01:55 PM - parachute (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
11. 03:05 PM - Re: G suits (Gus Fraser)
12. 03:09 PM - Re: Oil and Rudder Cable Questions (Brian Lloyd)
13. 03:39 PM - Re: G suits (Taylor, Chris C)
14. 03:57 PM - Re: G suits (jay reiter)
15. 05:12 PM - Re: Oil and Rudder Cable Questions (David Stroud)
16. 05:24 PM - Re: Oil and Rudder Cable Questions (Gus Fraser)
17. 06:03 PM - CJ-6 Spins (Lynn Williams)
18. 07:27 PM - Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... (YakL1@aol.com)
19. 07:54 PM - Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... ()
20. 08:24 PM - Re: CJ-6 Spins (Walt Lannon)
21. 08:34 PM - Re: CJ-6 Spins (Walt Lannon)
22. 08:56 PM - Re: CJ-6 Spins (Sam Sax)
23. 09:09 PM - Re: CJ-6 Spins (Jon Boede)
24. 10:01 PM - Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... (Jorgen Nielsen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Procedures ingrained into your head.... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yaksters;
I've been lucky, if you can call it that. After a whole day of flying
hither and yon I made a rapid decent out of 6500 to land at home
airport. A perfect squeaker landing. Earlier, I'd adjusted the pop-off
valve and was cycling the flaps to reduce pressure......the system was
pumping up to about 6.
Stopped cycling the flaps to complete the exit from the runway. Exit
completed and went to cycle the flaps again. My first though was, "Who
the hell put a ditch here on the taxiway"? Then the awful
realization..."OHHH Shi*". Funny thing, my passenger thought the exact
same thing "who the hell put a ditch here on the taxiway"?
I'm a pretty sharp guy, I mean, I've read about this stuff a thousand
times before...even seen it happen once but this is NEVER going to
happen to me!! Yeah, rrright!
OK, the lesson is that the gate lever is there for a purpose....to keep
you from putting the gear handle in the up position while on the ground.
Yea, it's really simple.....gear handle comes down, gate lever to the
right......every single time! We're human beings and as such even the
best of us WILL make mistakes.
Why was I lucky? Number one, I didn't get hurt. Number two, the front
gear didn't retract. My engine and prop are just fine but the tail skid
didn't fare as well.
Total damage? Tail skid smashed, bent right aileron hinge and bent
outboard rib of right aileron. That's it folks. I'm lucky because there
wasn't more damage. If it had been most any other airplane I'm certain
it would have been allot worse. I'm going to give one to the Russian
designers...........they designed it right! It is, after all, a training
aircraft and now it strikes me that they knew what they were doing when
they designed it!
Thank God for the lengendary ruggedness of the YAK-52! I love these
airplanes! I'll be back up and flying in no time, all the while thinking
"gear handle down, gate lever to the right, gear handle down, gate lever
to the right"............................................
I'm laughing about it now! Geeze!
Frank
N9110M
YAK-52
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Patrick Scofield <patrick@designworx.com>
I am pondering attending Sun-n-fun , Unfortunately I won't be able to
fly my aircraft there. What is the scoop on housing/hotel
arrangements? I know there is usually a time window on EAA warbirds
rooms, any info would be nice.
Best Regards,
Patrick Scofield
CJ-6 N4184W 'Alien Invasion'
2550 N Thunderbird Circle
Suite #302
Mesa, AZ 85215
USA
Bus. 480-968-4125
Fax. 480-968-4126
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: SWP013@aol.com
Three times: at the perch, half way around the final turn, and on short
final, "Three green, three sticks, down, locked, and latched."
Bastardized old F-15 habit from when the first Eagles used to, every once in
a while, retract one on you, just because. That got fixed but the habit
stayed.
There are those that have and those that will....
I try not to think about when it'll be my turn.
Sam "Spud" Patellos
partners with Dennis "Doogie" Doonan (a.k.a. "Doog")
Yak-52, N444YK
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Wished I had that "gate" ingrained in my little pea brain.
September 11, 1999, (yes, "my" 911) at 22,800 hours I did the very same thing
and bent my first airplane (my present CJ-6A).
"Jim, There are those who have and those who will. Welcome to the club"
(High time fellow pilot)
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Pat.
Hope you can come.
The RedStar pilots and GIBs are staying at the HoJos (863-294-7321) next door
to the EAA's Holiday Inn. 3/15/04 was the last day for our special rate
($59.00/nite). When I checked yesterday 17 rooms had been booked under our name.
You might try to see if they can still accommodate you. Hope so!
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
To expand on this reoccurring episode. In my report of transgress to the FAA
(in an attempt to justify my pea brainless) I pointed out that both the flap
handle and gear handle are identical, having round knobs to boot.
There is good reason why US aircraft (including the B-24J I fly) have wheel
shaped knob. It's not only to indicate what the handle does but that last
ditch warning as to what you have in your hand. It is "tactile feel" of what you
want and what the knob is for. The B-24 has no gear safty by-pass (like CJ- &
Yaks) and the flap and gear handles are next to each other about 10" apart.
Along with readjusting my cockpit habits to assure the latch (gate) is
closed, I made up a round wheel shape knob for my gear valve.
Has it help me? Not yet, but one never knows.
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bill Fischer" <bfischer@eaa.org>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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
To bad the CJ gear has no travel if it did you could have a squat switch.
Does the 52 have a stiff gear also? Jim do you have a picture of the handle?
metal or plastic?
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
I believe the "complex" equipment Brian refers to could easily be made from a brake
reducer valve, think about it. Pressure reduction from 750 psi to range from
0-120 psi on a progressive linear scale with lever action. So all you do
is mount one in a vertical position for aft with a level arm and weight to activate
the valve, some experimental use of the length of lever arm and weight to
get the desired force and resulting pressure. Then when a/c returns to 1G the
air releases, so I believe a very simple unit can be designed and I have thought
about this over some time. The L-29 trousers are cheap and simple to wear,
so all it needs is an experimenter to make it work!! I don't know if the volume
of air that can be passed would be quick enough or at what pressure these
trousers work at, I would guess quite a low pressure.
YAK 52 has 7 G limit, Yak 50 9G's and the SU26 etc something over 12!! I feel this
bit of equipment is useful.
over to the group to "design" :>))
MJ.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
You need a "circuit" to automatically inflate and deflate them as the G comes and
goes. That strikes me as a rather complex piece of equipment to add to an
airplane with a 6-G limit.
But it would be cool and completely in keeping with the philosophy of "Macho Flight
Wear at all costs"!
Best regards
Mark Jefferies
: Managing director YAK UK Ltd
Little Gransden Airfield, Sandy, Beds SG19 3BP, England.
( +44 (0)1767 651156 Office + 651157 fax
( +44 (0)7785 538 317 Mobile
: Conditions/ terms of business
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
We have now translated the "Russian parachute" packing manual, 30 pages in total
with pictures on how to pack this chute. Yes Ernie its the one used in the l-29
and other Jets along with the YAK 52 etc.Also included is the automatic opening
device settings.
Price is $30 available on CD. + postage. The index is hyper linked to the relevant
page.
YAK UK.
Table of contents
1. GENERAL.. 3
1.1. PACKING ARRANGEMENT AND RULES. 3
1.2. PARACHUTE PACKING ACCESSORIES. 4
1.2. GETTING PARACHUTE READY FOR PACKING. 5
2. S-4U RESCUE PARACHUTE PACKING.. 6
2.1. GENERAL. 6
2.2. I STAGE OF PACKING. VISUAL INSPECTION OF PARACHUTE EQUIPMENT AND PREPARING
CANOPY FOR PACKING.. 6
2.2. PREPARING CANOPY FOR PACKING.. 7
2.3. MAIN CANOPY PACKING.. 9
II STAGE OF PACKING. MAIN CANOPY LEAFING.. 9
LINES INSPECTION.. 9
III STEP. PULLING DEPLOYMENT BAG ONTO CANOPY. PACKING MAIN CANOPY LINES AND CANOPY
TOP INTO DEPLOYMENT BAG. 11
CHECK-UP OF THE THIRD PACKING STEP.. 12
2.4. IV STEP. PACKING MAIN CANOPY IN THE BAG INTO PARACHUTE CONTAINER. 13
PUTTING THE DEPLOYMENT BAG WITH CANOPY AND PART OF RISERS ONTO THE PARACHUTE CONTAINER.
13
CHECK-UP OF THE FOURTH PACKING STEP.. 13
V STEP. PACKING OF PILOT CHUTE. TIGHTENING OF THE PARACHUTE CONTAINER FLAPS. 13
2.5. PILOT CHUTE PACKING.. 14
2.6. CLOSING PARACHUTE CONTAINER.. 14
2.7. VI STEP. AUTOMATIC ACTIVATION DEVICE MOUNTING ONTO PARACHUTE CONTAINER.. 15
INSPECTION OF THE SIXTH PACKING STEP.. 17
2.8. VII STEP. ADJUSTMENT OF SUSPENSION HARNESS. MAKING RECORDS IN DOCUMENTATION.
SEALING. 17
SUSPENSION HARNESS ADJUSTMENT TO PILOT=92S HEIGHT. 17
INSPECTION OF THE PARACHUTE SYSTEM PACKING. 19
2.9. COMPLETION OF DOCUMENTATION.. 20
2.10. PREFLIGHT PARACHUTE PREPARATION. PARACHUTE FLIGHT READINESS INSPECTION. 20
2.11. sPUTTING PARACHUTE INTO AIRPLANE. 20
2.12. POST-FLIGHT PARACHUTE INSPECTION.. 21
2.13. PARACHUTE ASSEMBLING AFTER LANDING.. 21
2.14. RULES OF PARACHUTES STORAGE AND USE. PARACHUTE TRANSPORTATION.. 22
2.15. PARACHUTE STORAGE. 22
2.16. RULES OF MAINTANING PARACHUTE DOCUMENTATION.. 23
3. PARACHUTE AUTOMATIC ACTIVATION DEVICES KAP-3 AND PPK-U.. 24
3.1. Brief technical characteristics of KAP-3 and PPK-U devices. 24
Tolerable limits of device triggering in terms of time. 25
Altitude tolerances of device triggering. 26
Altitude and time setting on scales of life-saving security devices. 27
3.2. AAD Scheduled Maintenance. 28
Maintenance Schedule No. 1. 28
Maintenance Schedule No. 2. 28
AAD troubleshooting at operator facilities. 29
Failures that should be eliminated by manufacturer. 30
Best regards
Mark Jefferies
: Managing director YAK UK Ltd
Little Gransden Airfield, Sandy, Beds SG19 3BP, England.
( +44 (0)1767 651156 Office + 651157 fax
( +44 (0)7785 538 317 Mobile
: Conditions/ terms of business
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Imagine if the valve fails and you suddenly get 750psi around your family
jewels, not good for the procreation prospects....
Just imagine the look on the pilots face. Of course every cloud has a silver
lining I suppose that if over water there would be no need for a pfd....
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Jefferies
YAK UK Ltd
Subject: Yak-List: G suits
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
I believe the "complex" equipment Brian refers to could easily be made from
a brake reducer valve, think about it. Pressure reduction from 750 psi to
range from 0-120 psi on a progressive linear scale with lever action. So
all you do is mount one in a vertical position for aft with a level arm and
weight to activate the valve, some experimental use of the length of lever
arm and weight to get the desired force and resulting pressure. Then when
a/c returns to 1G the air releases, so I believe a very simple unit can be
designed and I have thought about this over some time. The L-29 trousers are
cheap and simple to wear, so all it needs is an experimenter to make it
work!! I don't know if the volume of air that can be passed would be quick
enough or at what pressure these trousers work at, I would guess quite a low
pressure.
YAK 52 has 7 G limit, Yak 50 9G's and the SU26 etc something over 12!! I
feel this bit of equipment is useful.
over to the group to "design" :>))
MJ.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
You need a "circuit" to automatically inflate and deflate them as the G
comes and
goes. That strikes me as a rather complex piece of equipment to add to an
airplane with a 6-G limit.
But it would be cool and completely in keeping with the philosophy of "Macho
Flight
Wear at all costs"!
Best regards
Mark Jefferies
: Managing director YAK UK Ltd
Little Gransden Airfield, Sandy, Beds SG19 3BP, England.
( +44 (0)1767 651156 Office + 651157 fax
( +44 (0)7785 538 317 Mobile
: Conditions/ terms of business
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Oil and Rudder Cable Questions |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Dennis Von Ruden wrote:
> versus nondetergent oil protocol for seating the rings. From talking
> with people and the printed material in the field, I feel the 25W60
> should be very acceptable both now and into the future. Comments?
I used both 20W50 and 25W60 in mine for about 700 hours on a first-run overhauled
Huosai engine. No problems. It is still flying. I recommend 25W60 without
reservation.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Taylor, Chris C" <Chris.Taylor@bhpbilliton.com>
Every now and then the anti-g valves for F-16's become available on e-bay -
I bought one for US$35.
These links explain how they work:
http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14020/css/14020_12.htm
http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14020/css/14020_13.htm
http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation/14020/css/14020_14.htm
My other investigations revealed that the pressure applied to the g-suits is
in the order of 10 psi which doesn't seem too high. All that would be needed
for this system to work would be to plumb the valve into a regulated air
supply (15 psi should be enough).
Hope this helps the 'design group'.
Chris Taylor
senior reservoir engineer
Trinidad and Tobago Asset Team
BHPBilliton
1360 Post Oak Bvld., Suite 150
Houston, Texas, 77056
tel: (1) 713 499 5462
mob: (1) 713 480 2276
fax: (1) 713 961 8365
e-mail: Chris.Taylor@BHPBilliton.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd [mailto:mark@yakuk.com]
Subject: Yak-List: G suits
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark@yakuk.com>
I believe the "complex" equipment Brian refers to could easily be made from
a brake reducer valve, think about it. Pressure reduction from 750 psi to
range from 0-120 psi on a progressive linear scale with lever action. So
all you do is mount one in a vertical position for aft with a level arm and
weight to activate the valve, some experimental use of the length of lever
arm and weight to get the desired force and resulting pressure. Then when
a/c returns to 1G the air releases, so I believe a very simple unit can be
designed and I have thought about this over some time. The L-29 trousers are
cheap and simple to wear, so all it needs is an experimenter to make it
work!! I don't know if the volume of air that can be passed would be quick
enough or at what pressure these trousers work at, I would guess quite a low
pressure.
YAK 52 has 7 G limit, Yak 50 9G's and the SU26 etc something over 12!! I
feel this bit of equipment is useful.
over to the group to "design" :>))
MJ.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
You need a "circuit" to automatically inflate and deflate them as the G
comes and
goes. That strikes me as a rather complex piece of equipment to add to an
airplane with a 6-G limit.
But it would be cool and completely in keeping with the philosophy of "Macho
Flight
Wear at all costs"!
Best regards
Mark Jefferies
: Managing director YAK UK Ltd
Little Gransden Airfield, Sandy, Beds SG19 3BP, England.
( +44 (0)1767 651156 Office + 651157 fax
( +44 (0)7785 538 317 Mobile
: Conditions/ terms of business
EOM
NOTICE - This message and any attached files may contain information that is
confidential and/or subject of legal privilege intended only for use by the
intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient or the person
responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, be advised
that you have received this message in error and that any dissemination,
copying or use of this message or attachment is strictly forbidden, as is
the disclosure of the information therein. If you have received this
message in error please notify the sender immediately and delete the
message.
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
Good point Gus. I do not have any experience in personal equipment. I mean
that's what they called parachutes, g suites, helmets etc. when I was in the
Air Force. Some one else may have the information on the controller that is
normally used for g suits. A surplus controller may be the way to start.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Oil and Rudder Cable Questions |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
Any thoughts or recommends for cold weather ops? Thanks.
Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Fairchild 51 early construction
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brian@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil and Rudder Cable Questions
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
>
>
> Dennis Von Ruden wrote:
> > versus nondetergent oil protocol for seating the rings. From talking
> > with people and the printed material in the field, I feel the 25W60
> > should be very acceptable both now and into the future. Comments?
>
> I used both 20W50 and 25W60 in mine for about 700 hours on a first-run overhauled
Huosai
engine. No problems. It is still flying. I recommend 25W60 without reservation.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brian@lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Oil and Rudder Cable Questions |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
I heard a story from a Russian once about how M14Ps were used on farms as
generators, they would go on for 14,000 hours plus and I am guessing that
they were fed with stuff that would loosely pass as oil by FAA standards.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Oil and Rudder Cable Questions
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian@lloyd.com>
Dennis Von Ruden wrote:
> versus nondetergent oil protocol for seating the rings. From talking
> with people and the printed material in the field, I feel the 25W60
> should be very acceptable both now and into the future. Comments?
I used both 20W50 and 25W60 in mine for about 700 hours on a first-run
overhauled Huosai engine. No problems. It is still flying. I recommend
25W60 without reservation.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lynn Williams" <laupdates@msn.com>
After several spins in the CJ both to the left and right, I've been
wondering what the typical characteristics are. In our experience, after
approx 1.5 turns, the a/c tries to fly itself out of the spin, air speed
increases out of stall range and the dive angle steepens even with full aft
stick. At about 2 turns, there is a pretty good shimmy which feels like it
comes from the empanage passing through the turbulent air flow. Of course
VSI goes off the chart probably near 3k fpm. Just doesn't seem to hold in
steady state. There are 2 other cj's at our home base but no one has spun
either of them and I haven't flown either of them. This characterisic seems
quite safe, probably would recover hands free, but I'm wondering what the
rest of you experience.
Thanks, Lynn Williams, N66PG, CJ-6a
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: YakL1@aol.com
This is also an important point in the CJ landing checklist.
I (have felt) your pain...
John Z
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Procedures ingrained into your head.... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: <aapilot@adelphia.net>
This is the third such occurence of this type I am aware of in the last several
years.
The knobs are identical, even in color (in the Cjs I've seen).
Folks new to the aircraft or to retracts, having the gear knob painted a unique
color from the flap knob is perhaps one cheap measure to resist the pavlovs dog
reaction of grabbing the black knob after landing...
This practice (sliding the gate) was so critical, I started a partern policy of
charging $5 in my CJ after checking (the new partner) out solo if the other owner
discovered the gate "unlocked"...
Glad to hear this one will be a quick fix!
Drew
>
> From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> Date: 2004/03/16 Tue AM 07:48:40 EST
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Procedures ingrained into your head....
>
>
Message 20
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Lyn;
It is likely that the spin characteristics you describe are due to a well
forward C of G condition. Have all the original avionics been removed? Was
ballast installed to compensate? Were you solo? How much fuel and baggage?
I would hazard a guess that most CJ's (with the equip. removed) have a most
forward CG well ahead of the forward limit. In some cases maybe by as much
as 5" or 6".
I allow a forward limit up to 2" ahead of the published limit and
established that by determining that adequate elevator authority still
exists in the most forward CG condition to make a safe power off landing.
This requires a ballast in the tail of 25 to 30 lbs (will vary with other
equipment installed).
To stay within the published forward limit would require something on the
order of 70 lbs (again, will vary with other equip. inst.) in the tail and
any baggage (with full fuel and the rear seat occupied) would place the CG
aft of the rearward limit.
A forward CG will increase the stall speed, decrease the cruise speed,
decrease elevator power, make spin recovery quicker and possibly make it
difficult or impossible to enter a spin. You need to know the empty weight
CG location and be able to determine the location under all loading
conditions.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lynn Williams" <laupdates@msn.com>
>
> After several spins in the CJ both to the left and right, I've been
> wondering what the typical characteristics are. In our experience, after
> approx 1.5 turns, the a/c tries to fly itself out of the spin, air speed
> increases out of stall range and the dive angle steepens even with full
aft
> stick. At about 2 turns, there is a pretty good shimmy which feels like
it
> comes from the empanage passing through the turbulent air flow. Of course
> VSI goes off the chart probably near 3k fpm. Just doesn't seem to hold in
> steady state. There are 2 other cj's at our home base but no one has spun
> either of them and I haven't flown either of them. This characterisic
seems
> quite safe, probably would recover hands free, but I'm wondering what the
> rest of you experience.
>
> Thanks, Lynn Williams, N66PG, CJ-6a
>
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee
>
>
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <lannon@look.ca>
Lyn;
Forgot to add the VSI reads in metres/second.
"5" is approx. 1000 ft/min (actually 984) "3" is approx. 600 ft/min.
Walt
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lynn Williams" <laupdates@msn.com>
>
> After several spins in the CJ both to the left and right, I've been
> wondering what the typical characteristics are. In our experience, after
> approx 1.5 turns, the a/c tries to fly itself out of the spin, air speed
> increases out of stall range and the dive angle steepens even with full
aft
> stick. At about 2 turns, there is a pretty good shimmy which feels like
it
> comes from the empanage passing through the turbulent air flow. Of course
> VSI goes off the chart probably near 3k fpm. Just doesn't seem to hold in
> steady state. There are 2 other cj's at our home base but no one has spun
> either of them and I haven't flown either of them. This characterisic
seems
> quite safe, probably would recover hands free, but I'm wondering what the
> rest of you experience.
>
> Thanks, Lynn Williams, N66PG, CJ-6a
>
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee
>
>
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Lynn,
In a fully developed spin, the aircraft should remain in its steady state
after the 2nd rotation (CJ-6) for as long as you keep the in-spin control
inputs. If it tries to 'fly out' of the spin (normal, upright spin) it
means (to me at least) that it (spin) never developed fully. I have
experienced similar behavior on my CJ after removing 150lb of old radios and
other junk and before adding weight to the tail cone to bring the CG where
it should be (see the W&B Bulletin). I have over 55lb in the tail cone
which helped greatly all around, let alone the spin. In other words - a
forward CG will tend to cause the aircraft to exit a spin or at least make
it harder to keep it in one.
Also, check you rudder travel range and cable tension.
My experience spinning mine (and a Yak52) is of a fairly standard spin
entry and recovery characteristics. It takes it about two to three turns
before getting to steady state - with an interestingly high rotation rate
and low nose attitude. I found it to be similar to the Yak-52 spin behavior
(normal upright spin) with both aircraft recovering crisply within one to
two rotations (depending on how 'crisp' your recovery control inputs
are...).
Spinning our aircraft is fun, safe and will definitely add to the self
confidence as well as prepare you to safely recover should something happen.
THE MAJOR CAVEAT IN ALL THIS IS: - If you (List et al) have not received
proper spin training by a QUALIFIED instructor IN YOUR AIRCRAFT TYPE -
please seek such training, instructor. Do so and you feel better (its
exhilarating) and much safer.
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Williams
Subject: Yak-List: CJ-6 Spins
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lynn Williams" <laupdates@msn.com>
After several spins in the CJ both to the left and right, I've been
wondering what the typical characteristics are. In our experience, after
approx 1.5 turns, the a/c tries to fly itself out of the spin, air speed
increases out of stall range and the dive angle steepens even with full aft
stick. At about 2 turns, there is a pretty good shimmy which feels like it
comes from the empanage passing through the turbulent air flow. Of course
VSI goes off the chart probably near 3k fpm. Just doesn't seem to hold in
steady state. There are 2 other cj's at our home base but no one has spun
either of them and I haven't flown either of them. This characterisic seems
quite safe, probably would recover hands free, but I'm wondering what the
rest of you experience.
Thanks, Lynn Williams, N66PG, CJ-6a
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Funny this should come up... I went out and spun my CJ silly the other day
and while spins to the left were big fun, with two people in the airplane
we got a little flat in a spin to the right, enough to make me say "huh?"
before I shoved the stick forward and recovered. But the normal "stop
doing the thing you're doing to MAKE it spin to stop spinning" -- didn't
work.
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
>
> Lynn,
>
> In a fully developed spin, the aircraft should remain in its steady
> state after the 2nd rotation (CJ-6) for as long as you keep the in-spin
> control inputs. If it tries to 'fly out' of the spin (normal, upright
> spin) it means (to me at least) that it (spin) never developed fully. I
> have experienced similar behavior on my CJ after removing 150lb of old
> radios and other junk and before adding weight to the tail cone to bring
> the CG where it should be (see the W&B Bulletin). I have over 55lb in
> the tail cone which helped greatly all around, let alone the spin. In
> other words - a forward CG will tend to cause the aircraft to exit a
> spin or at least make it harder to keep it in one.
> Also, check you rudder travel range and cable tension.
>
> My experience spinning mine (and a Yak52) is of a fairly standard spin
> entry and recovery characteristics. It takes it about two to three
> turns before getting to steady state - with an interestingly high
> rotation rate and low nose attitude. I found it to be similar to the
> Yak-52 spin behavior (normal upright spin) with both aircraft recovering
> crisply within one to two rotations (depending on how 'crisp' your
> recovery control inputs are...).
>
> Spinning our aircraft is fun, safe and will definitely add to the self
> confidence as well as prepare you to safely recover should something
> happen. THE MAJOR CAVEAT IN ALL THIS IS: - If you (List et al) have not
> received proper spin training by a QUALIFIED instructor IN YOUR
> AIRCRAFT TYPE - please seek such training, instructor. Do so and you
> feel better (its exhilarating) and much safer.
>
> Sam Sax
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lynn Williams
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: CJ-6 Spins
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lynn Williams" <laupdates@msn.com>
>
> After several spins in the CJ both to the left and right, I've been
> wondering what the typical characteristics are. In our experience,
> after approx 1.5 turns, the a/c tries to fly itself out of the spin, air
> speed increases out of stall range and the dive angle steepens even with
> full aft stick. At about 2 turns, there is a pretty good shimmy which
> feels like it comes from the empanage passing through the turbulent air
> flow. Of course VSI goes off the chart probably near 3k fpm. Just
> doesn't seem to hold in steady state. There are 2 other cj's at our
> home base but no one has spun either of them and I haven't flown either
> of them. This characterisic seems quite safe, probably would recover
> hands free, but I'm wondering what the rest of you experience.
>
> Thanks, Lynn Williams, N66PG, CJ-6a
>
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Procedures ingrained into your head.... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
And another thought in terms of procedure, relevant to all aircraft
types I guess but esp. to Yak/CJ...
Land the aeroplane.
Leave the flaps alone. Finish your roll out, taxi off the runway. When
clear, stop.
Take a breath. (Optional: Light a smoke, check if wings still attached
or gear poking through wing)
Identify the flap lever.
Positively identify the flap lever.
Ask yourself, is this the flap lever?
Retract the flap.
Turn off generators (or anything else relevant on CJ)
Taxi off to hangar.
No rush. Takes a few seconds. Do you really need to retract flap
whilst rolling?
I never used to do this until a couple months ago, but a certain Russian
gentleman by the name of Gennady insisted it was the only way. And he's
right.
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
aapilot@adelphia.net
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Procedures ingrained into your head....
--> Yak-List message posted by: <aapilot@adelphia.net>
This is the third such occurence of this type I am aware of in the last
several years.
The knobs are identical, even in color (in the Cjs I've seen).
Folks new to the aircraft or to retracts, having the gear knob painted a
unique color from the flap knob is perhaps one cheap measure to resist
the pavlovs dog reaction of grabbing the black knob after landing...
This practice (sliding the gate) was so critical, I started a partern
policy of charging $5 in my CJ after checking (the new partner) out solo
if the other owner discovered the gate "unlocked"...
Glad to hear this one will be a quick fix!
Drew
>
> From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> Date: 2004/03/16 Tue AM 07:48:40 EST
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Procedures ingrained into your head....
>
>
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