Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - who? (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
2. 12:10 AM - http://www.yakuk.com/aerostars.asp (Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd)
3. 03:47 AM - Re: More Snot (cpayne@joimail.com)
4. 04:25 AM - : More Snot (Frank Haertlein)
5. 05:54 AM - Re: Pardon my terminology (Bob Fitzpatrick)
6. 08:35 AM - Re: who has the fastest CJ? (Doug Sapp)
7. 08:59 AM - Re: who has the fastest CJ? (Ernie Martinez)
8. 09:44 AM - Fw: Housai oil tank location recommends (David Stroud)
9. 09:45 AM - Re: who has the fastest CJ? (Doug Sapp)
10. 09:48 AM - Re: http://www.yakuk.com/aerostars.asp (Jorgen Nielsen)
11. 09:55 AM - Re: who has the fastest CJ? (Ronald Wasson)
12. 10:58 AM - Yak Formation pictures needed for YAK UK site. (Mark Schrick)
13. 11:08 AM - Re: who has the fastest CJ? (Doug Sapp)
14. 11:46 AM - Re: who has the fastest CJ? (Ronald Wasson)
15. 12:15 PM - Re: who has the fastest CJ? (Doug Sapp)
16. 02:00 PM - who? (Janet Davidson)
17. 02:10 PM - FAST clinics (Barry Hancock)
18. 02:35 PM - Re: : More Snot (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
19. 02:35 PM - Re: OSH Participation (Brian Lloyd)
20. 02:42 PM - Re: Pardon my terminology (Brian Lloyd)
21. 02:44 PM - Re: Why? Why not! (Brian Lloyd)
22. 02:52 PM - Re: who has the fastest CJ? (Brian Lloyd)
23. 03:07 PM - Re: : More Snot (Gary Reynolds)
24. 03:30 PM - Re: Pardon my terminology (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
25. 04:06 PM - Re: : More Snot (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
26. 04:08 PM - Re: Why? Why not! (Ernie Martinez)
27. 04:24 PM - Re: Pardon my terminology (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
28. 06:21 PM - Re: Pardon my terminology (Brian Lloyd)
29. 07:19 PM - Coil (loop) on compressor. (Frank Haertlein)
30. 07:55 PM - Desser Tires (Frank Haertlein)
31. 08:30 PM - Re: Desser Tires (ByronMFox@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark.j@yakuk.com>
Who has the fastest CJ6 in USA? contact me of list please.
MJ
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark.j@yakuk.com>
Now then you boys & girls across the pond lets see if your as good as this http://www.yakuk.com/aerostars.asp send me your pictures (if there are any good formation pilots in USA :>)) and I will post, but make them max 100 kbs please.
cheers, MJ
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
Isn't the function of the coil between the compressor and
snot trap to cool and condense the water vapor? Using a SS
reinforced flex hose may not do as good a job of getting the
moisture out of the air.
Craig Payne
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Craig;
The function of the coil between the compressor and the snot trap is to
provide flex. If it were a straight pipe it would break from engine
vibration in no time.
Frank
N911OM
YAK-52
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: More Snot
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
--> <cpayne@joimail.com>
Isn't the function of the coil between the compressor and
snot trap to cool and condense the water vapor? Using a SS reinforced
flex hose may not do as good a job of getting the moisture out of the
air.
Craig Payne
==
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pardon my terminology |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bob Fitzpatrick <rmfitz@direcway.com>
Great time for this discussion, mine is leaking. System keeps good pressure
in flight but the drain only dribbles whereas it used to blast back to the
tail. I have to hurry out of the cockpit to get anything out of it, so when
we open it up to check with soap time will a factor. Any suggestions where
to check first? Where do you get the replacement Sukhoi hose?
Thanx.
bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich GS11 Mark G" <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Pardon my terminology
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>
> The "snot" valve is typically mounted right AFTER the engine driven air
> compressor and is secured to the engine firewall. It consists of a small
> collection "tank" that allows moisture ... along with some oil to condense
> in the tank. A valve allows the tank to be vented to outside air, and
this
> accumulated oil/moisture mixture comes out of a small line, the result
being
> a burst of nasty looking stuff that looks remarkably like.... well, you
get
> the idea. The oil in the air is a function of the compressor leaking a
> little engine oil past it's seals as the air is being compressed. Engine
oil
> combined with water gives you a brown looking.... mess.
>
> There is no check valve between the compressor and the snot valve, thus
> giving the owner a good idea of how "tight" the lines are between the
> compressor and valve. If you finish flying and you go to vent the thing
and
> there is only a very gentle whoosh of air out of it... you've got a leak.
>
> In the YAK-50 and 52's, the original line from the compressor banjo
fitting
> to the snot valve is a solid piece with a "coil" in the middle to allow
> movement of the engine in it's mounts while the solid line is still
> connected to the snot valve. This line ALWAYS breaks. It's just a matter
> of time. A good solution is to replace it with a Sukhoi hose off of a 26
> model. The line I am talking about is used for injection of oil into the
> exhaust manifold (smoke) and is a flex steel line rated for high pressure.
> I put one of these in my 50 after the solid line broke.... twice. Of
course
> my engine "rubbers" were also very worn at the time which is an obvious
> reason for the solid line breaking so easily.
>
> More than you asked for..... sorry.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Stroud [mailto:davestroud@rogers.com]
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Pardon my terminology
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
>
> Slobber, snot or worse. I think I've heard them all used in reference to a
> discharge device
> on the Housai or Vendenyev engine installations. Could someone please
advise
> where in
> the system this thing goes and in fact what it is, in simple terms ? I
> think it's just some
> type
> of collector with a drain valve that is opened after the final flight of
the
> day to allow
> accumulated
> oil frothing stuff a convenient way out of the system. Close? Thanks..
>
> David Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
> Christavia C-FDWS
> Fairchild 51 early construction
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | who has the fastest CJ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Stock 285 hp or modified with the bigger engines of 360 or 400hp?
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Jefferies
YAK UK Ltd
Subject: Yak-List: who?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd"
<mark.j@yakuk.com>
Who has the fastest CJ6 in USA? contact me of list please.
MJ
Message 7
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| Subject: | who has the fastest CJ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I didn't think the bigger engine CJ's went any faster, I thought they
just had better climb.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
Subject: RE: Yak-List: who has the fastest CJ?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Stock 285 hp or modified with the bigger engines of 360 or 400hp?
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Jefferies
YAK UK Ltd
Subject: Yak-List: who?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd"
<mark.j@yakuk.com>
Who has the fastest CJ6 in USA? contact me of list please.
MJ
==
==
==
==
Message 8
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| Subject: | Fw: Housai oil tank location recommends |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
My oil tank is ready for installation and I'm trying to chose a suitable location
for it,
elevation wise, in relation to oil inlet pump location on the engine. This is a
non inverted
oil system. George Coy's Gesoco site says that the oil comes from the oil screen
assembly
which is gravity fed from the tank, then over to the oil pump. Am I safe in assuming
that the
tank can be located considerably lower than the oil inlet on the engine and that
the oil pump
will
suck the oil up from the lower position before shoving it all through the engine?
In the event
that I must gravity feed to the oil inlet on the pump, I do have room to do it,
but it would
take up valuable space for the instruments and I'm trying to keep the panel as
authentic as
possible.
Thanks.
David Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 early construction
Message 9
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| Subject: | who has the fastest CJ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Ah contraire! Hal Morley's Hanna HO! is the fastest 360 (air flow fuel
injected) that I have seen, over 170 KTS was the norm Deer Valley to Omak.
It may be due to the fact that it's a brand new airframe and perfectly
straight or perhaps the FI system may be doing exactly what the makers claim
it will do and is boosting the HP a bit, either way it goes like a scalded
dog!
The other new CJ6 will be flown home to Omak in the next few weeks, it will
be 100% stock 285 hp aircraft except for the new bladder tanks, which in my
humble opinion are the best thing since sliced bread! (3:22 nonstop Deer
Valley to Castle)
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernie Martinez
Subject: RE: Yak-List: who has the fastest CJ?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie Martinez"
<ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I didn't think the bigger engine CJ's went any faster, I thought they
just had better climb.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
Subject: RE: Yak-List: who has the fastest CJ?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Stock 285 hp or modified with the bigger engines of 360 or 400hp?
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Jefferies
YAK UK Ltd
Subject: Yak-List: who?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd"
<mark.j@yakuk.com>
Who has the fastest CJ6 in USA? contact me of list please.
MJ
==
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==
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Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Great pics!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Jefferies
YAK UK Ltd
Subject: Yak-List: http://www.yakuk.com/aerostars.asp
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd"
--> <mark.j@yakuk.com>
Now then you boys & girls across the pond lets see if your as good as
this http://www.yakuk.com/aerostars.asp send me your pictures (if there
are any good formation pilots in USA :>)) and I will post, but make them
max 100 kbs please.
cheers, MJ
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: who has the fastest CJ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ronald Wasson <ronwasson@mindspring.com>
Doug
How much of a hassle to install are bladder tanks.
Ron
Message 12
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| Subject: | Yak Formation pictures needed for YAK UK site. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Schrick" <schrick@pacbell.net>
Mark J.
Do you guys have SLOW modems in UK? Why not ship larger files for clear and
precise shots to show off the tight formation that US pilots demonstrate?
Several Yak 50 formation shots are on Redstar Pilot Assoc website that look
awesome.
Good luck.
********************************************************************
Mark Schrick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Jefferies YAK
UK Ltd
Subject: Yak-List: http://www.yakuk.com/aerostars.asp
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies YAK UK Ltd" <mark.j@yakuk.com>
Now then you boys & girls across the pond lets see if your as good as this
http://www.yakuk.com/aerostars.asp send me your pictures (if there are any
good formation pilots in USA :>)) and I will post, but make them max 100 kbs
please.
cheers, MJ
Message 13
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| Subject: | who has the fastest CJ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Ron,
My bladder tanks were installed by Bill Blackwell. I asked about the
procedure Bill and his answer was that it was not a big deal, but I would
suggest that you call Bill at 623-703-1001, I am sure that he can give you
the straight poop. I was told that they would have some kits ready soon.
Price is about 2800.00 uninstalled. Ask him about the vent mod also, it
pretty much does away with dissimilar fuel feed in the CJ.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald Wasson
Subject: Re: Yak-List: who has the fastest CJ?
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ronald Wasson <ronwasson@mindspring.com>
Doug
How much of a hassle to install are bladder tanks.
Ron
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: who has the fastest CJ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ronald Wasson <ronwasson@mindspring.com>
doug
How much fuel total does it provide with the bladder.
Ron
Message 15
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| Subject: | who has the fastest CJ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
The increase is about 12 gallons per side. So now you have 32 gallons in
the same space you had 20 in previously. And a total of 64 gallons on
board, (plus the sump tank). I was very impressed with the tanks, they are
very professionally done and look as good and any Beechcraft fuel cell.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald Wasson
Subject: Re: Yak-List: who has the fastest CJ?
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ronald Wasson <ronwasson@mindspring.com>
doug
How much fuel total does it provide with the bladder.
Ron
Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
Mark
Why? You aren't thinking of forsaking the Yak and buying a Nanchang are you
;)
Janet
Who has the fastest CJ6 in USA? contact me of list please.
MJ
Ph: 920 232 9238
email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
> In my mind, this is exemplified by
> the decision a couple of years ago to exclude FNGs from training at
> MTW. A
> few years ago, I showed up at MTW and was provided with wonderful
> formation
> training by numerous folks. Now, that is no longer available.
That training is still available, just not at MTW. In fact, there are
more association FAST clinics now than ever before. Just a few short
years ago there were *only* the clinics at MTW and SnF, and the Fred
Ihlenburg event. If there is not a clinic established in your region
now, as Mike said, contact your Regional Coordinator and work with him
to establish one. This association, and any other warbird association,
is not AOPA or EAA where they have full time people to put on events
for us. We have to go out and make it happen. That's why this
association is growing and developing more events...members are taking
the initiative. The Regional Coordinator concept is directly
responsible for this. For example, I'm the Western Regional
Coordinator, I help put on All Red Star and one (hopefully two now) ACM
events a year. If I had 10 or even 5 members contact me and say "we
need a FAST only clinic" I would:
1) Put on my yellow hard hat and get to work.
2) Enlist those that want the clinic to help me with organization
(i.e. find a location and talk with the airport manager, arrange
hotels, etc.)
None of this is magic, none of this is difficult...it is only very time
consuming. Division of labor is only appropriate in a volunteer
organization, right?
There is another reason that there is no longer FAST training at SnF
and OSH. Not only is it logistically difficult/nearly impossible to
try to effectively run FAST training for Nuggets (and the inherent
subconscious push to get patched so they *can* fly in the show) *and*
get mass formation training done, but there seems to be a real lack of
consideration for just how complicated and potentially dangerous mass
formation flying is, even if you're the only mass formation in the sky.
Then throw in 3 other mass formations intentionally criss-crossing each
other's path at 500ft. separations (less if you consider the stack
down), and now you have the very real potential for disaster. Radio
discipline, comm out procedures, emergency considerations...and above
all, good Situational Awareness are crucial to safe ops in the air show
environment. It is one thing to be in a 4-ship doing fly-bys at your
local show. It is another thing to be #10 flying off your flight lead
with another flight lead at your 8 o'clock - in dirty air no less - and
the T-28's whizzing underneath you in the *opposite* direction. A
mishap at one of these shows has the potential to involve literally
thousands of people.
This brings me back to the earlier discussion about "looking good". A
Sierra Hotel looking formation is, above all, safe. If everyone is
doing a good job of station keeping, not only is it going to look good,
but no stray airplanes means no one is in any jeopardy. Everyone can
relax and concentrate on just flying their airplane. You start getting
guys straying from their positions too far, and now others in the
flight have to start worrying about not only their own airplane (or in
the case of leads, airplanes), but also the dude who keeps invading
their space.
This isn't to say that OSH or SnF shouldn't be your first show, but a
freshly patched pilot doesn't generally have the same SA that he/she
will after another 10-20 hours of 4-ship flying. That being said, the
way things are now you can be a freshly patched Wing and show up for
the mass formation practice prior to the show and build in that comfort
level. Something worth considering before entering waivered airspace
with 100+ other airplanes in close proximity to 10's of thousands of
people.
OK, I'm done opining for awhile.....
FWIW,
B
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
My experience is that it still breaks... even with the flex coil.... also
having a lot to do with the obvious question of how MUCH does the engine
MOVE. That being influenced greatly by the engine shock mount "rubbers".
I've repaired two of these items before finally going with the flex hose.
By the way, ALL of the new Sukhoi aircraft use a flex hose of the exact type
I was mentioning. Theirs, however... is too short to use as a direct
exchange... but the exact same type line is used as part of their smoke
system and IT fits PERFECTLY.
Mark
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Haertlein [mailto:yak52driver@earthlink.net]
Subject: Yak-List: : More Snot
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Craig;
The function of the coil between the compressor and the snot trap is to
provide flex. If it were a straight pipe it would break from engine
vibration in no time.
Frank
N911OM
YAK-52
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: More Snot
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
--> <cpayne@joimail.com>
Isn't the function of the coil between the compressor and
snot trap to cool and condense the water vapor? Using a SS reinforced
flex hose may not do as good a job of getting the moisture out of the
air.
Craig Payne
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: OSH Participation |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
MFilucci@aol.com wrote:
> -- I call it the butt kissing paradox: if the RPA President kisses every
> single member's butt, someone will raise their hand and complain that they were
> kissed on the left cheek instead of the preferred right cheek.
Why Mr. Filucci, Ah do declare! Such language ah have nevah heard from a gentleman
such as yo sef!
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Pardon my terminology |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> In the YAK-50 and 52's, the original line from the compressor banjo fitting
> to the snot valve is a solid piece with a "coil" in the middle to allow
> movement of the engine in it's mounts while the solid line is still
> connected to the snot valve.
Actually, the coil is an attempt to make a condenser coil to condense the water
out of the compressed air so that the dessicant trap will last longer.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Why? Why not! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Ernie Martinez wrote:
> 2) Take money out of our treasury and buy us all 1st class tickets to
> the event and hire ferry pilots for our airplanes. This way weather
> isn't a factor....or upgrade us all to Turbine power and pay for the
> fuel.....or if we could just figure out that "Time Space Continuum"
> thing we could all just beam ourselves there.
Hey Ernie, I'll fly your airplane to OSH if you like. I'll pop up with the Comanche
and swap for your CJ. You can keep my Comanche as collateral until I return
your CJ.
> Why do we want to "Own The Show" anyway??? Isnt it enough to just get
> together to have a good time, or are we in some sort of contest??? It
> sounds as if we're hoping for the demise of the other clubs.
We do have a friendly rivalry with the T-34 guys but I guess we have won by default.
Too bad. And I don't think anyone here was thinking negatively about the
other guys, just that they other warbird guys don't really take the eastern
bloc aircraft seriously.
Frankly, I don't think that the numbers are all that important. If you want to
convert a T-34 or T-6 driver, let them fly your airplane. That seems to do the
trick.
> We're all
> EAA here, without the other guys we are weaker when it comes to
> defending our right to own and fly ALL warbirds.
Yup.
> This club is getting way too narrow minded. I think we should step back
> and decide what we are. Are we a formation club, or a warbird club.
Gee, and I thought we were just a bunch of guys who like airplanes.
> Formation is fun, but its seems to be becoming the only focus here,
> there are some members who don't want to fly formation. How about the
> guys with the Acro planes and the guys with Jets, what have you got
> planned for them? I keep hearing that we're all inclusive, but show up
> at S&F with a non CJ or Yak 52 and your're pretty much on your own. I
> felt like an outsider this year when I showed up with my L-29.
Hey Ernie, I'll be happy up to come play with you and your L-29. I always wanted
to fly one. When and where should I show up? Need a BFR?
(Back from Nigeria and back from my tour of the US in the Comanche.)
BTW, speaking of the Comanche, I am going to sell it. If anyone knows of someone
looking for a really nice 1960 PA-24-250 that has been converted to a 260,
let me know. It has really great avionics, a modern panel layout, new paint,
and an almost-new interior.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: who has the fastest CJ? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Ernie Martinez wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> I didn't think the bigger engine CJ's went any faster, I thought they
> just had better climb.
Bigger engines mean a lot better climb but more HP *will* make you go marginally
faster. Speed increases as the cube root of available HP. So the cube root
of 360/285 is 1.081 so increasing from 285 to 360 HP should net you an 8.1% increase
in top speed. I figured it to be about 11-12 knots.
If you really want to go faster, pay attention to aerodynamics.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Gary Reynolds <gary.reynolds@hills.com.au>
Does anybody have a part No And where i can obtain 1
Gary Reynolds
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G [mailto:BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: : More Snot
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
My experience is that it still breaks... even with the flex coil.... also
having a lot to do with the obvious question of how MUCH does the engine
MOVE. That being influenced greatly by the engine shock mount "rubbers".
I've repaired two of these items before finally going with the flex hose.
By the way, ALL of the new Sukhoi aircraft use a flex hose of the exact type
I was mentioning. Theirs, however... is too short to use as a direct
exchange... but the exact same type line is used as part of their smoke
system and IT fits PERFECTLY.
Mark
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Haertlein [mailto:yak52driver@earthlink.net]
Subject: Yak-List: : More Snot
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Craig;
The function of the coil between the compressor and the snot trap is to
provide flex. If it were a straight pipe it would break from engine
vibration in no time.
Frank
N911OM
YAK-52
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: More Snot
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
--> <cpayne@joimail.com>
Isn't the function of the coil between the compressor and
snot trap to cool and condense the water vapor? Using a SS reinforced
flex hose may not do as good a job of getting the moisture out of the
air.
Craig Payne
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 24
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| Subject: | Pardon my terminology |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Bob, I can make a guess... but I will submit that it is a very educated one
and I will give you about a 95% certainty factor!
There are three usual places for a leak... one is the line itself... the one
with the coil in it. However, if this cracks, you usually will have a total
loss of air pressure and it will NOT be doing what you describe. It will
just fail to provide any air at all, so it is probably NOT a cracked line.
Next, the snot valve..... VALVE..... might be leaking. This is not very
common if you are closing it by hand and not using a remote control cable.
So that is not at the top of my list either.
Lastly.. this: (and this is the most likely!) On the bottom of the
compressor is a fitting called: A BANJO FITTING. This is a deal that allows
the female end to be rotated so that a perfect alignment can be achieved to
the solid line with the coil in it that leads over to the snot valve. THIS
PUPPY is what develops leaks ALL the time!
It has been my experience that there is only one way to tighten this thing
properly, and that is to take it completely apart and put it back together
again one step at a time. Be advised... this thing has compression washers
in it made of aluminum. You need the proper washers.... and it helps to
keep a spare set laying around. Check George Coy, or who ever your favorite
parts guy is for a set of these. Ask for the aluminum wasters for the
compressor banjo fitting.
Typically, the air leaks around the threads where the whole actual fitting
tightens into the compressor assembly itself. Yes, it can leak at other
areas too... but the above has happened to me more times than I can count.
You have to remove the bottom bolt... and this will allow the banjo looking
piece to SLIDE directly off the rest of the piece. BE CAREFUL... there are
washers in here... and you need to keep careful track of where they go for
reassembly! CAREFUL!
Once the banjo fitting is removed, you can use a deep well socket wrench to
screw out the rest of the piece. My advice? Clean all the threads off and
then use a thread LOCKER on the thing. Just this one piece. Using thread
locker and new washer, put it back on. I do not know the exact torque that
is called for... but I tried tight... and that didn't work. I then tried
very tight... and that was better. I then tried TIGHT AS HELL WITHOUT
STRIPPING THE DARN THING... and that has finally lasted about a year or
more!
After that is done, put your banjo piece back on along with the washers and
bottom bolt. Tighten it up just where it can still be rotated easily...
THEN attach the rigid line leading over to the snot valve and get it FAIRLY
tight. After THAT, tighten the bottom Banjo fitting bolt all the way, being
careful not to allow rotation that would bend and crack the line leading to
the snot valve. After that fully tighten the #5 line going to the Banjo
from snot valve.
Some might argue to not put the rigid line on before having the BANJO all
the way tightened. That is your call... but getting the banjo perfectly
tight and having it perfectly aligned to the rigid line at the same time is
rather vexing... to put it mildly.
Lastly... there is a way to check to see if this is where the leak is...
first, look for some snot around the banjo fitting. Black to brown looking
goo all around it. If you have a source of higher pressure air, you can
reverse feed air back to the compressor. Simply pull the fitting off of the
snot valve and hook to a source of 700 psi air. Turn on and listen for
leaks with the engine NOT running. There is a check valve in the compressor
to keep it from getting back that far. You should now easily identify the
leak.
Also.... once you have the line disconnected from the banjo fitting, take it
off from the snot valve as well and give it a careful inspection. Just for
the sake of ... why not... it's right there anyway!
As for the Sukhoi Flex line.... I got mine from Vladimir Yastremski. I got
it after looking over Hubie Tolsons SU-26MX and seeing a line in it that
looked the perfect length.
Good luck,
Mark
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Fitzpatrick [mailto:rmfitz@direcway.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pardon my terminology
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bob Fitzpatrick <rmfitz@direcway.com>
Great time for this discussion, mine is leaking. System keeps good pressure
in flight but the drain only dribbles whereas it used to blast back to the
tail. I have to hurry out of the cockpit to get anything out of it, so when
we open it up to check with soap time will a factor. Any suggestions where
to check first? Where do you get the replacement Sukhoi hose?
Thanx.
bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich GS11 Mark G" <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Pardon my terminology
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>
> The "snot" valve is typically mounted right AFTER the engine driven air
> compressor and is secured to the engine firewall. It consists of a small
> collection "tank" that allows moisture ... along with some oil to condense
> in the tank. A valve allows the tank to be vented to outside air, and
this
> accumulated oil/moisture mixture comes out of a small line, the result
being
> a burst of nasty looking stuff that looks remarkably like.... well, you
get
> the idea. The oil in the air is a function of the compressor leaking a
> little engine oil past it's seals as the air is being compressed. Engine
oil
> combined with water gives you a brown looking.... mess.
>
> There is no check valve between the compressor and the snot valve, thus
> giving the owner a good idea of how "tight" the lines are between the
> compressor and valve. If you finish flying and you go to vent the thing
and
> there is only a very gentle whoosh of air out of it... you've got a leak.
>
> In the YAK-50 and 52's, the original line from the compressor banjo
fitting
> to the snot valve is a solid piece with a "coil" in the middle to allow
> movement of the engine in it's mounts while the solid line is still
> connected to the snot valve. This line ALWAYS breaks. It's just a matter
> of time. A good solution is to replace it with a Sukhoi hose off of a 26
> model. The line I am talking about is used for injection of oil into the
> exhaust manifold (smoke) and is a flex steel line rated for high pressure.
> I put one of these in my 50 after the solid line broke.... twice. Of
course
> my engine "rubbers" were also very worn at the time which is an obvious
> reason for the solid line breaking so easily.
>
> More than you asked for..... sorry.
>
> Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Stroud [mailto:davestroud@rogers.com]
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Pardon my terminology
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "David Stroud" <davestroud@rogers.com>
>
> Slobber, snot or worse. I think I've heard them all used in reference to a
> discharge device
> on the Housai or Vendenyev engine installations. Could someone please
advise
> where in
> the system this thing goes and in fact what it is, in simple terms ? I
> think it's just some
> type
> of collector with a drain valve that is opened after the final flight of
the
> day to allow
> accumulated
> oil frothing stuff a convenient way out of the system. Close? Thanks..
>
> David Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
> Christavia C-FDWS
> Fairchild 51 early construction
>
>
Message 25
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Gary, my friend Hubie has a complete parts list for his Sukhoi, but right
now it is not in New Bern NC but out flying someplace. I will try to look
through his manuals this weekend and get you a part number, but I'd feel
much better if I could actually look at the one in his aircraft and compare
it to the one in his manuals before I tell you for sure. All I did was
measure the distance between the snot valve and the compressor and then go
over to the Suke and measured what was there until I got the same length.
Then called Vladimir and asked for one of the Suke hoses that was "this
long".
Sorry for not being more specific, but I never planned on passing it
along... at the time it was just a trial fix for that darn line breaking.
Of course, since then I swear by it.
Mark
N50YK
p.s. I'll try to get specifics for you by next week.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Reynolds [mailto:gary.reynolds@hills.com.au]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: : More Snot
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gary Reynolds <gary.reynolds@hills.com.au>
Does anybody have a part No And where i can obtain 1
Gary Reynolds
-----Original Message-----
From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G [mailto:BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: : More Snot
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
My experience is that it still breaks... even with the flex coil.... also
having a lot to do with the obvious question of how MUCH does the engine
MOVE. That being influenced greatly by the engine shock mount "rubbers".
I've repaired two of these items before finally going with the flex hose.
By the way, ALL of the new Sukhoi aircraft use a flex hose of the exact type
I was mentioning. Theirs, however... is too short to use as a direct
exchange... but the exact same type line is used as part of their smoke
system and IT fits PERFECTLY.
Mark
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Haertlein [mailto:yak52driver@earthlink.net]
Subject: Yak-List: : More Snot
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Craig;
The function of the coil between the compressor and the snot trap is to
provide flex. If it were a straight pipe it would break from engine
vibration in no time.
Frank
N911OM
YAK-52
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: More Snot
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
--> <cpayne@joimail.com>
Isn't the function of the coil between the compressor and
snot trap to cool and condense the water vapor? Using a SS reinforced
flex hose may not do as good a job of getting the moisture out of the
air.
Craig Payne
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 26
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
You're welcome up anytime, just bring a full wallet and we can burn as
much K-1 as our wallets will allow.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Why? Why not!
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Ernie Martinez wrote:
> 2) Take money out of our treasury and buy us all 1st class tickets to
> the event and hire ferry pilots for our airplanes. This way weather
> isn't a factor....or upgrade us all to Turbine power and pay for the
> fuel.....or if we could just figure out that "Time Space Continuum"
> thing we could all just beam ourselves there.
Hey Ernie, I'll fly your airplane to OSH if you like. I'll pop up with
the Comanche and swap for your CJ. You can keep my Comanche as
collateral until I return your CJ.
> Why do we want to "Own The Show" anyway??? Isnt it enough to just get
> together to have a good time, or are we in some sort of contest??? It
> sounds as if we're hoping for the demise of the other clubs.
We do have a friendly rivalry with the T-34 guys but I guess we have won
by default. Too bad. And I don't think anyone here was thinking
negatively about the other guys, just that they other warbird guys don't
really take the eastern bloc aircraft seriously.
Frankly, I don't think that the numbers are all that important. If you
want to convert a T-34 or T-6 driver, let them fly your airplane. That
seems to do the trick.
> We're all
> EAA here, without the other guys we are weaker when it comes to
> defending our right to own and fly ALL warbirds.
Yup.
> This club is getting way too narrow minded. I think we should step
back
> and decide what we are. Are we a formation club, or a warbird club.
Gee, and I thought we were just a bunch of guys who like airplanes.
> Formation is fun, but its seems to be becoming the only focus here,
> there are some members who don't want to fly formation. How about the
> guys with the Acro planes and the guys with Jets, what have you got
> planned for them? I keep hearing that we're all inclusive, but show up
> at S&F with a non CJ or Yak 52 and your're pretty much on your own. I
> felt like an outsider this year when I showed up with my L-29.
Hey Ernie, I'll be happy up to come play with you and your L-29. I
always wanted to fly one. When and where should I show up? Need a BFR?
(Back from Nigeria and back from my tour of the US in the Comanche.)
BTW, speaking of the Comanche, I am going to sell it. If anyone knows
of someone looking for a really nice 1960 PA-24-250 that has been
converted to a 260, let me know. It has really great avionics, a modern
panel layout, new paint, and an almost-new interior.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
==
==
==
==
Message 27
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| Subject: | Pardon my terminology |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Hi Brian,
Without meaning to be contrary or argumentative, I strongly disagree. My
profession is a Field Engineer for the EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare
aircraft, and I have been working with and around jets for a long time.
Coils that are put in lines like this are done so typically for one of two
reasons, one is to allow movement and flex without cracking. The other is
to tame down hard pressure spikes.
Of course, my opinion is always subject to correction, and that is what the
above is... just my opinion based on 33 years of experience working with
high performance jet aircraft.
Either way, I will offer you this: All of the new Sukhoi aircraft use a
braided steel line just like the one I am using and not a rigid piece with a
circle in it. I consider the Sukhoi's to more modern aircraft where past
experience was applied to improve overall design. Thus I am only copying an
existing RUSSIAN design Brian. So, even if I am wrong and the coil is
designed to condense water... it apparently was not important enough to pass
on to their more modern aircraft designs.
r/s,
Mark
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd [mailto:brianl@lloyd.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pardon my terminology
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> In the YAK-50 and 52's, the original line from the compressor banjo
fitting
> to the snot valve is a solid piece with a "coil" in the middle to allow
> movement of the engine in it's mounts while the solid line is still
> connected to the snot valve.
Actually, the coil is an attempt to make a condenser coil to condense the
water out of the compressed air so that the dessicant trap will last longer.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Pardon my terminology |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> Without meaning to be contrary or argumentative, I strongly disagree.
That's OK. I tend to be contrary and argumentative so I accept it from others.
:-)
> My
> profession is a Field Engineer for the EA-6B Prowler electronic warfare
> aircraft, and I have been working with and around jets for a long time.
> Coils that are put in lines like this are done so typically for one of two
> reasons, one is to allow movement and flex without cracking. The other is
> to tame down hard pressure spikes.
I agree that those are good reasons although I kind of discount pressure spikes
given air as a working fluid. Still, a condenser coil is common at the output
of an air compressor. Given that it is just one turn implies that it is not
going to be hugely effective. It may be more effective in just dropping the
temperature of the outlet air. I would not be surprised to find that it is intended
to serve all three purposes.
> Of course, my opinion is always subject to correction, and that is what the
> above is... just my opinion based on 33 years of experience working with
> high performance jet aircraft.
And here we are dealing with a medium-pressure (750 psi) pneumatic system, not
hydraulic. The stresses are much lower.
> Either way, I will offer you this: All of the new Sukhoi aircraft use a
> braided steel line just like the one I am using and not a rigid piece with a
> circle in it. I consider the Sukhoi's to more modern aircraft where past
> experience was applied to improve overall design. Thus I am only copying an
> existing RUSSIAN design Brian. So, even if I am wrong and the coil is
> designed to condense water... it apparently was not important enough to pass
> on to their more modern aircraft designs.
Many things turn out to be unnecessary after later analysis. I have been involved
in protocol design for many years and one thing I have learned is that 99%
of the problems you think up turn out not to have any significant effect and
can be ignored. I suspect that the loop-as-condenser turned out to fall into
the "not significant" category.
But what do I know.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Coil (loop) on compressor. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Bryan;
You said "Actually, the coil is an attempt to make a condenser coil to
condense the water out of the compressed air........"
Then explain why there is a coil going into both the main and emergency
air bottles?
Frank
N911OM
YAK-52
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Pardon my terminology
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> In the YAK-50 and 52's, the original line from the compressor banjo
> fitting to the snot valve is a solid piece with a "coil" in the middle
> to allow movement of the engine in it's mounts while the solid line is
> still connected to the snot valve.
Actually, the coil is an attempt to make a condenser coil to condense
the water out of the compressed air so that the dessicant trap will last
longer.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 30
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakkers;
I'm now thoroughly convinced Desser Tire uses too soft a compound in
their tires. I'm really tired of paying $130 for tires that have been
purposely designed for premature wear. There is no reason to use such a
soft rubber compound except to promote accelerated tire wear and
increase their profit margin at my expense. Look, I've seen high
performance racing tires with a harder compound........and these were
$1000 per tire! I'd like to support Desser but they better start using a
longer lasting compound or I'll stop using their product. There are
alternatives out there and I'll find them if I have to!
Frank
YAK-52
N911OM
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Desser Tires |
--> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
Have your casings retreaded by Desser. The rubber is harder, lasts longer and
is also cheaper. Moreover, Desser retreads got a thumbs up in the recent
issue of Aviation Consumer. ...Blitz
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