Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:59 AM - Yak-List Digest (Janet Davidson)
2. 07:37 AM - Re: Great Fly-In (Brian Lloyd)
3. 08:17 AM - Re: Britain (Kevin Pilling)
4. 11:21 AM - brakes (Barry Hancock)
5. 11:31 AM - Mark Bittterlich (Dean Courtney)
6. 11:41 AM - Magazine Coverage (Michael Di Marco)
7. 02:08 PM - Re:RPA Events (Drew Blahnick)
8. 03:44 PM - Leonid Neverov (jay reiter)
9. 03:55 PM - Re: Leonid Neverov (Doug Sapp)
10. 03:55 PM - Re: Leonid Neverov (jay reiter)
11. 04:46 PM - Re: brakes (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
12. 04:47 PM - Re: Mark Bittterlich (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
13. 05:22 PM - Bill Blackwell or Vladimir (DaBear)
14. 05:37 PM - Rumors (Frank Haertlein)
15. 05:47 PM - Re: Bill Blackwell or Vladimir (Doug Sapp)
16. 06:19 PM - Re: Rumors (Roy Wright)
17. 06:19 PM - Re: Rumors (Roy Wright)
18. 06:36 PM - Re: Rumors (Kendel McCarley)
19. 09:41 PM - (no subject) (Vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
20. 11:55 PM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 06/29/04 (craig)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
Time: 02:20:34 PM PST US
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Britain
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 6/29/2004 3:14:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mwlevy@btinternet.com writes:
>Hey Jim,
>
>Yoo nead to oose urr spell chekker as wel as urr keybord ayme,
>
>Try Battle of Britain!
>
>All the best,
>
>Slightly disappointed Brit!
>
If anyone who knows me, knows that I believe the Brits and the Battle of
Britain, was the finest hours ever on all the battles of WW2. If I had
a million
or two $ the very first airplane I would buy would be the Hawker
Hurricane
MK2. It won the Battle hands down. One only has to look at statistics,
the Spit
got the glory, the 'Hurry' did the work.
AND - IF I ever need another woman in my life, she would be a British
lass.
Jim Goolsby
I'll keep that in mind, Jim ;) especially if you get a Hurricane :)
Janet
Ph: 920 232 9238
email: gbvfx@hotmail.com
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Great Fly-In |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Daniel Fortin wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
>
> Better you hear it from me...
>
> I was leading a 4 ship consisting of Hammer Lynch, Steve Dunno his last name
> (in his SH 52TW) and DaBear. After about 30min of fun we rejoin and RTB for
> a low pass and a kick ass break, Headed towards the setting sun in 3sm Haze
> (that's my excuse and I am sticking with it)
I know the feeling. I was leading my first 4-ship and headed back to Riverside
in the late afternoon. Vis was nonexistent due to the setting sun in the haze.
No way I could see the field.
Being a clever guy, I always keep my GPS set on the field so I just have to glance
down to get a vector. No worries. Well, I misjudged the turn point to intercept
the extended runway centerline outside the IP and realized I was going
to intercept inside the IP. Still wanting to make it work, especially since
I had our clearance for the break, I screwed up again and turned too early ...
into the downwind against the flow of traffic. The tower caught my mistake and
started yelling. We were head-to-head with a C-172. I had to turn the flight
into the echelon to get clear. #4 had to cross under to keep from stalling
out. I got everyone reformed and then did it right on the second try.
I was certain I was in for a tongue-lashing from my IP in the back seat who was
surprisingly silent through the whole thing. When we got on the ground he just
said, "you kept your head and you fixed the problem. Don't worry about it."
So Dan, you kept your head and you fixed the problem. Don't worry about it.
BTW, lesson learned: if you aren't sure, maintain a maneuvering formation such
as diamond or close in-trail in order to make it easier to maneuver more aggressively
to fix problems without giving the rest of your flight a work-out. It
only takes a few seconds to turn the formation into the proper echelon on your
lead-in to the IP when you get everything scoped out.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.360.838.9669 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
In those dark days of WW11 it was often said that it was bad enough "Having
those Yanks, over sexed, over paid, and over here!".....Now you want yer
cake and eat it by being "Over there and wanting to nick our Lasses from
over here" ! ******* Well we aint got none to spare ...so back off !
Only joking Jim.....but your smelling mayed uss smyle.
The Smiling Limey
kp
Is war rationing ended yet ?
----- Original Message -----
From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Britain
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 6/29/2004 3:14:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> mwlevy@btinternet.com writes:
>
>
> > Hey Jim,
> >
> > Yoo nead to oose urr spell chekker as wel as urr keybord ayme,
> >
> > Try Battle of Britain!
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Slightly disappointed Brit!
> >
>
> If anyone who knows me, knows that I believe the Brits and the Battle of
> Britain, was the finest hours ever on all the battles of WW2. If I had a
million
> or two $ the very first airplane I would buy would be the Hawker Hurricane
> MK2. It won the Battle hands down. One only has to look at statistics,
the Spit
> got the glory, the 'Hurry' did the work.
>
> AND - IF I ever need another woman in my life, she would be a British
lass.
>
> Jim Goolsby
>
>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>
A layman's perspective...
>
> Not wanting to argue but:
Oh, let's! :)-
>
> 1. If you get a hyd. leak you usually notice it from the puddle of red
> fluid
> that gets your attention very fast.
Unless the leak happens in flight. Ah, but then there's the backup
system. OK, so that's two additional systems to fail and maintain.
> With an air leak you don't usually
> notice it because the system is huffing and puffing air in normal
> operation.
> When you DO notice it, it is usually HUGE. Installing a hyd. brake
> system
> allows these brakes to be completely separate from everything else.
The emergency system is separate.
> Further, one leak does not cause you to lose both brakes. (Of course
> having
> just one brake is no joy EITHER [smile])
You'd need two leaks there also. One in each system.
> It is also simple (no
> proportional brake valve) and has easily available and cheap parts
> replacement, and you use American Tires and wheels. Not recaps. Not
> expensive tires that wear out quickly, etc.
Why are retreads an issue. If they last, they last, right?
>
> 2. I was under the impression that the Emergency Bottle in YAKS only
> allowed you to blow the gear down, not power the brakes. Am I wrong
> about
> that?
I don't *think* that is correct in the Yaks, but I'm not a Yak driver.
The emergency system on the CJ does power the brakes.
>
> 3. Having flown a YAK-50 that had a bad leak in the landing gear
> actuator
> (twice), I have seen how easy it is to lose ALL of the compressed air
> in a
> BIG hurry, such that the compressor can not keep up with it and the
> reservoir empties faster than it can be filled. Result... no brakes.
Sounds to me like a poorly maintained air system. A poorly maintained
anything is gonna have issues, right?
>
> 4. It is very easy to start a YAK-50 or 52 without opening the main
> air
> valve. Result: No brakes.... and aircraft moving ahead that is
> essentially
> out of control. Pilot error yes.... also aided by brake design.
Good point.
>
> 5. Hydraulic fluid used in aircraft brakes (such as the old 5606) is
> not a
> corrosive, being a petroleum based substance, however it is a
> carcinogen
> which could be considered worse I suppose.
It does eat at rubber pretty good...
>
> 6. Hyd. brakes easily work as well as the air brakes, and allow a much
> finer
> level of control than the air brakes using a differential valve to
> port air
> to each wheel. As an example, Segei Boriak once told me that very few
> Russian pilots ever wheel landed the Yak-50. He seemed surprised when
> I
> said it was easy and I did it all the time. Then I admitted that I had
> hyd.
> toe brakes and he laughed and said: "OH, that explains it".
>
> 7. How many brake handle and cable failures have we heard of in the
> 50 and
> 52's & CJ's?
I don't know of any failures with properly replaced cables and
stainless brake handles...
> On
> the other hand, a hyd. brake conversion, while not cheap, does address
> some
> safety issues in a very effective way and has the other benefits that I
> listed above.
I guess that's the main issue here, cost. Sure hyd. brakes are nice in
some respects, but it's not without it's drawbacks...the biggest one
being you'll have as much in the brake system as you will in the
engine, prop, and avionics combined.
But like you say, hey, it's your money. I replaced all the pneumatic
lines and electrical in my entire airplane, so sanity isn't one of my
strong suits!
Also, you have a Yak-50. I am jealous... which accounts for my reason
to "argue" with you in the first place. ;)-
Barry
Message 5
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| Subject: | Mark Bittterlich |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney" <deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
Mark,
Call or e-mail me. I still want to get those Yak manuals translated, but all
my e-mails to you have been bouncing back.
Cheers,
Dean Courtney
205-405-0701
deancourtney696@hotmail.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Magazine Coverage |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Michael Di Marco <cj6a_chinablue@yahoo.com>
The day I followed a flight of RedStars into SnF (one mile trail), Norm Goyer of
Custom Planes snapped a shot of China Blue during the taxi in.
It is on a full two page spread (index pages) of the July edition.
And yes, I already informed him that the description is in error. A CJ6 is not
a Yak. His response was "if it walks like a duck...". No respect.
Mike
China Blue
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Drew Blahnick" <drewblahnick@hotmail.com>
Folks,
Thanks to all who involved themselves in the planning and execution of these recent
events; Sean, Charlie , Tim, Scott and too many others to mention.
Events make this group; as we sometimes struggle developing the 'systems', as with
any organization, we rely on the owners/members; one of the principal 'products'
are the events - and areentirely up to the leadership of the membership.
Congrats on what sounds like some great and safe times had by all!
Drew
Watch the online reality show Mixed Messages with a friend and enter to win a
trip to NY
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
Anyone have a phone number for Leonid Neverov in SAN?
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
( 21-23:00 the best) . 619-221-8747
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of jay reiter
Subject: Yak-List: Leonid Neverov
--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
Anyone have a phone number for Leonid Neverov in SAN?
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Leonid Neverov |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
Just thought forward the number of list
----- Original Message -----
From: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Leonid Neverov
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
>
> Anyone have a phone number for Leonid Neverov in SAN?
>
>
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: Mark Bitterlich
<bitterlichmg@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
>> Not wanting to argue but:
>Oh, let's! :)-
Normally, I don't... but if you really WANT to... I'm up for it, as long as
it doesn't get personal! :-)
>> 1. If you get a hyd. leak you usually notice it from the puddle of red
>> fluid
>> that gets your attention very fast.
>Unless the leak happens in flight. Ah, but then there's the backup
>system. OK, so that's two additional systems to fail and maintain.
Excuse me: When was the last time you applied your brakes at 10,000 feet to
make sure they were working? Better yet, how could you tell?
>> With an air leak you don't usually
>> notice it because the system is huffing and puffing air in normal
>> operation.
>> When you DO notice it, it is usually HUGE. Installing a hyd. brake
>> system
>> allows these brakes to be completely separate from everything else.
>The emergency system is separate.
In a YAK-50 the Emergency System is purely for the extension of the
retractable landing gear. I fly a 50. I can't fit it a CJ. (sadly)
>> Further, one leak does not cause you to lose both brakes. (Of course
>> having
>> just one brake is no joy EITHER [smile])
>You'd need two leaks there also. One in each system.
In a tail dragger, stabbing on both brakes to suddenly find out that you
only have one working is a recipe for an accident. So really there is no
point to be made here... either way?
>> It is also simple (no
>> proportional brake valve) and has easily available and cheap parts
>> replacement, and you use American Tires and wheels. Not recaps. Not
>> expensive tires that wear out quickly, etc.
>Why are retreads an issue. If they last, they last, right?
Recaps versus new tires are not an "issue" for me. Apparently they are for
a lot of other people on the YAK List who have been talking about it quite
seriously of late. But to make a point, if I have a catastrophic tire or
wheel failure anywhere in this country, I can get a replacement cheaply and
easily. To me that is an advantage. Anywhere there are aircraft tires,
mine will be in stock. I won't get into the discussion of "quality"... but I
think it could be argued that the best tire Goodyear makes might be a little
"better" than a recap. Of course, I could be wrong.
>> 2. I was under the impression that the Emergency Bottle in YAKS only
>> allowed you to blow the gear down, not power the brakes. Am I wrong
>> about
>> that?
>I don't *think* that is correct in the Yaks, but I'm not a Yak driver.
>The emergency system on the CJ does power the brakes.
In a YAK-50, the Emergency system is pressurized from the engine compressor
(unlike the 52) and only powers the landing gear extension.
>> 3. Having flown a YAK-50 that had a bad leak in the landing gear
>> actuator
>> (twice), I have seen how easy it is to lose ALL of the compressed air
>> in a
>> BIG hurry, such that the compressor can not keep up with it and the
>> reservoir empties faster than it can be filled. Result... no brakes.
>Sounds to me like a poorly maintained air system. A poorly maintained
>anything is gonna have issues, right?
No... excuse me but NO! I do not agree that an in-flight failure
automatically insinuates "poor maintenance".
your pneumatic operated actuators out of the aircraft and had them
completely rebuilt? What about your hoses... both engine and pneumatic? Do
you replace them without fail every 5 years? Just curious......
That aside.....The fact is, if you have one of the large rubber seals fail
on a main landing gear actuator in a YAK-50, you will lose air very quickly.
This has very little to do with how it was maintained, and a lot to do with
just when a piece of rubber chooses that it is it's time to go.
Regardless. Having flown both systems, I have had three problems that
ended up causing low air and the possibility of lost braking action with
pneumatic systems. I have not had one case of brake loss with the hyd.
equipped 50.
>> 4. It is very easy to start a YAK-50 or 52 without opening the main
>> air
>> valve. Result: No brakes.... and aircraft moving ahead that is
>> essentially
>> out of control. Pilot error yes.... also aided by brake design.
>Good point.
Thanks.
>> 5. Hydraulic fluid used in aircraft brakes (such as the old 5606) is
>> not a
>> corrosive, being a petroleum based substance, however it is a
>> carcinogen
>> which could be considered worse I suppose.
>It does eat at rubber pretty good...
Yes it does. It could easily be considered a solvent for some materials.
>> 6. Hyd. brakes easily work as well as the air brakes, and allow a much
>> finer
>> level of control than the air brakes using a differential valve to
>> port air
>> to each wheel. As an example, Segei Boriak once told me that very few
>> Russian pilots ever wheel landed the Yak-50. He seemed surprised when
>> I
>> said it was easy and I did it all the time. Then I admitted that I had
>> hyd.
>> toe brakes and he laughed and said: "OH, that explains it".
>>
>> 7. How many brake handle and cable failures have we heard of in the
>> 50 and
>> 52's & CJ's?
>I don't know of any failures with properly replaced cables and
>stainless brake handles...
And I don't know of any failures with a properly replaced pneumatic system
with a hydraulic one especially since the modification REMOVES the brake
handle and cable.
>> On
>> the other hand, a hyd. brake conversion, while not cheap, does address
>> some
>> safety issues in a very effective way and has the other benefits that I
>> listed above.
>I guess that's the main issue here, cost. Sure hyd. brakes are nice in
>some respects, but it's not without it's drawbacks...the biggest one
>being you'll have as much in the brake system as you will in the
>engine, prop, and avionics combined.
That is a very seriously exaggerated statement. Let's not even assume an MT
3 bladed prop... which goes for around 12 grand, or a new M-14PF .... 24
grand, and an EFIS avionics system..... (wow). Let's instead just say a
used old dinged up Russian prop...... 2 grand. A backyard rebuilt M-14P
... say 8 grand with hull, and a typical Russian radio... $500. Do you
really think that hyd. brake conversion cost even close to TEN GRAND? No.
The axles are the hardest part. Figure $1000 MAXIMUM for each leg (I only
have two). The rest comes right out of the homebuilt section of whatever
catalog you want to pick. You're looking at a few thousand tops. I course
I also am willing to do a lot of the work myself, so yes.. that reduces the
price too.
>But like you say, hey, it's your money. I replaced all the pneumatic
>lines and electrical in my entire airplane, so sanity isn't one of my
>strong suits!
Actually, I asked that very question earlier. I assume you used all Russian
hoses and fittings, and that you will do it again in 5 years as is
recommended?
>Also, you have a Yak-50. I am jealous... which accounts for my reason
>to "argue" with you in the first place. ;)-
It's funny how that works Barry. I have always loved CJ's. It was with
serious shock and the deepest of regrets when I was finally given the chance
to get into one, only to find out that I simply could not fit in the thing!
I'm about 6'7" .... I can fly a stock 50, but I finally moved the seat
back in mine to make it "semi" comfortable, but amazing as it must seem...
and it was indeed shocking to me.... there is more room for a tall person in
a 50 than there is in any other model... except for maybe the Yak-55. I
can't fit in Suke's, or CJ's or even a YAK-52. I guess I could take a
hacksaw to my legs.....
Take care,
Mark
N50YK
Message 12
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| Subject: | Mark Bittterlich |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
SURE... give me an address to send them PLEASE!
mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Courtney [mailto:deancourtney696@hotmail.com]
Subject: Yak-List: Mark Bittterlich
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney"
<deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
Mark,
Call or e-mail me. I still want to get those Yak manuals translated, but all
my e-mails to you have been bouncing back.
Cheers,
Dean Courtney
205-405-0701
deancourtney696@hotmail.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Bill Blackwell or Vladimir |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "DaBear" <dabear@damned.org>
Anyone have Bill Blackwell's or Vladimir's phone numbers?
Al
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yaksters,
You seen it here first :)
Let the Rumors begin!
Anyone want to tell me what the hell this is? Hehehehe :)
Click here http://home.earthlink.net/~yak52driver/rumors.html
Frank
N911OM
YAK-52
Message 15
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| Subject: | Bill Blackwell or Vladimir |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
BILL BLACKWELL 623-703-1001
VLADIMER 619-379-1860 CELL
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DaBear
Subject: Yak-List: Bill Blackwell or Vladimir
--> Yak-List message posted by: "DaBear" <dabear@damned.org>
Anyone have Bill Blackwell's or Vladimir's phone numbers?
Al
Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Roy Wright <roy@wright.org>
It a prop from a new movie...
Have fun,
Roy
At 07:36 PM 6/30/2004, Frank Haertlein wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
>Yaksters,
>
>You seen it here first :)
>
>Let the Rumors begin!
>
>Anyone want to tell me what the hell this is? Hehehehe :)
>
>Click here http://home.earthlink.net/~yak52driver/rumors.html
>
>Frank
>N911OM
>YAK-52
>
>
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Roy Wright <roy@wright.org>
It a prop from a new movie...
Have fun,
Roy
At 07:36 PM 6/30/2004, Frank Haertlein wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
>Yaksters,
>
>You seen it here first :)
>
>Let the Rumors begin!
>
>Anyone want to tell me what the hell this is? Hehehehe :)
>
>Click here http://home.earthlink.net/~yak52driver/rumors.html
>
>Frank
>N911OM
>YAK-52
>
>
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Kendel McCarley <kmmccarley@earthlink.net>
Looks cool. Ain't stealthy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Haertlein <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Rumors
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yaksters,
You seen it here first :)
Let the Rumors begin!
Anyone want to tell me what the hell this is? Hehehehe :)
Click here http://home.earthlink.net/~yak52driver/rumors.html
Frank
N911OM
YAK-52
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Vectorwarbirds@aol.com
Anybody know Joe Howse's email address?
Thanks
GBunn
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 06/29/04 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "craig" <rupilot@nvbell.net>
Hello to every one on the Yak list. I m new to it and thought i would
introduce myself.
I have been following the list the last few weeks.
I am the shop suppervisor at Shade tree avaition. Ok i hear some moans out
there.
I was wondering if there is any need for a kit for FOB etc
I was thinking of setting up molds and doing them in fiberglass or carbon
fiber..
Any imput on price etc. would be help.
Also we only have 14 M14's left in stock.
Thanks
Craig
rupilot@nvbell.net
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