---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/20/04: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:00 AM - Test (Bryan Martin) 2. 07:18 AM - Re: MTW (cjpilot710@aol.com) 3. 02:12 PM - HELP! NEED WINGS! (owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com) 4. 07:16 PM - Re: Flying over densely populated areas (AirshowPilot1@aol.com) 5. 09:48 PM - Batman's a Grandad! (Yakjock) 6. 09:53 PM - Re: [SPAM] - Re: Flying over densely populated areas - (Jay Land) 7. 10:34 PM - Re: Batman's a Grandad! (cjpilot710@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:17 AM PST US Subject: Yak-List: Test From: Bryan Martin --> Yak-List message posted by: Bryan Martin Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:53 AM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: MTW --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com In a message dated 7/19/2004 8:01:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, FamilyGage@aol.com writes: > Gentlemen, > > Unfortunately, my TW will not be completed in time to make OSH. > > I just canceled my room reservation at Heritage Hotel (920)682-0043; and > car > at U-Save Auto !-888-872-8311 and ask for Barbara. Hope that this will > help > some RPA member to get into the show. > > Please give my best to all of the gang. And everyone have fun and safe > flying. > > Ray Gage > > > And just as I was about to ask if you needed to be lead up there again. :) We'll miss ya. Jim Goolsby "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes until some woman stomps all over them." Unknown older man. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:39 PM PST US From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com --> Yak-List message posted by: From: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G Subject: HELP! NEED WINGS! 0.8 MANY_EXCLAMATIONS Subject has many exclamations Hi Folks, I am putting out feelers for YAK-50 Wings and was hoping to find something in the States if possible. I know Richard Goode has a full set in England (that are absolutely PERFECT by the way), but to be honest, I was hoping to get something a little bit cheaper and possibly more local. Needed is the left wing only, although I will consider purchasing both wings if you have a pair. I do not need the ailerons themselves, but do need the linkages and pushrod tubes. I also do not need the landing gear or gear actuators.... just the pure wing by itself. Any hints of where to search or ideas of people to contact would be appreciated. Contact me off-net at: bitterlichmg@cherrypoint.usmc.mil or mgb@jcs.mil Thanks, Mark Bitterlich p.s. I purchased a YAK-50 for parts, but it appears repairable. I'm going to at least give it a shot before striking it. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:02 PM PST US From: AirshowPilot1@aol.com Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flying over densely populated areas --> Yak-List message posted by: AirshowPilot1@aol.com I represented a pilot who was facing a 180 day suspension of his license for overflying a "densely populated" area. The FAA lawyer assigned to the case argued that a cluster of 3 or more houses was a "densely populated area." We argued that it was the yellow areas depicted on the sectional. $20,000 of my time later we were successful. In a message dated 7/12/2004 9:58:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Frank Haertlein" writes: >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" > >Mark >I can sympathize with you. In my 47 years of life on this earth I've >seen all kinds of restrictions put on my freedoms. From not being able >to fly over the Grand Canyon to being made to wear a motorcycle helmet >to having countless millions of acres of camping ground made off >limits........and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The road to hell >is paved with good intentions........our government, with it's good >intentions, will become tyrannical some day. When virtually every aspect >of your life is prescribed by some law and virtually every aspect of >your behavior is governed by some rule or regulation, you will know >tyranny. > >By the way, your program letter is permission by the FAA to fly to the >events you have listed no matter where they are. As another perspective, >I completed my phase 1 operating limitations transiting Riverside, >California. You would be hard pressed to NOT call that a densely >populated area. >Frank > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich >GS11 Mark G >To: 'yak-list@matronics.com' >Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flying over densely populated areas > > >--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G >--> > >I am SO sorry for venting, but this kind of nonsense just makes my blood >boil! > >Stop and think about this for a minute: "May not be operated over a >densely populated areas or in congested airways, except when otherwise >directed by ATC or in an emergency situation". > >Ok, now how many of us fly on a cross country and pay attention to >whether we happen to be flying over a "densely populated area" in our >"Experimental >Exhibition" aircraft. > >Next: Just what IS a "densely populated area" at least as regards this >specific instruction? > >Worse, just what is a "Congested Airway" and how in heavens name is >someone >supposed to know THAT? > >Hal then wrote: "The rumor is someone did a low pass somewhere".... >well, heck... there are plenty of rules that cover an illegal "low >pass", otherwise known as flat-hatting. But the term "low pass" usually >specifies something done at an airport or other legal area. The idea >that the FAA would try to use the "Densely populated area" aspect of our >aircraft certification tells me that they can't figure out what else to >use EXCEPT for this, which tells ME that they are on a witch hunt and >want to "get" someone no matter what it takes. > >Regardless, it would be interesting to see the FAA really try to >prosecute a pilot for an "infraction" of this type. It would be nice if >the FAA could be our friends instead of our enemies, and in some cases I >think that relationship might actually exist, but stories like this >really make you wonder. > >Mark Bitterlich >N50YK > >-----Original Message----- >From: Yakjock [mailto:Yakjock@msn.com] >To: yak-list@matronics.com >Subject: Yak-List: Flying over densely populated areas > > >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" > >A heads up. Three of us here in Oregon have been preparing to do a >flyover for a July 4th parade to be held on Saturday, the 3rd. Planes >included a Yak 11, Yak 52 and CJ. The parade was to be held over the >town of Hillsboro, a pretty widely spread metropolis of about 45,000 >souls. We received word from the local FSDO that we could not fly over >the parade due to the prohibition in our Operating Limitations that >specifies: > > "Except for takeoffs and landings, this aircraft may not be operated >over densely populated areas or in congested airways, except when >otherwise directed by ATC or in an emergency situation. When >exercising........" > >The rumor is that someone did a low pass somewhere and there were >complaints and the FSDO is taking action against the pilot's certificate >using the "densely populated" clause as a basis. The guy at the FSDO >that warned our group is a friend of one of the pilots. > >You may wish to reread your limitations and think about whether or not >you would be at risk. > >Heck of a way to celebrate Independence Day! > >Hal Morley > > >== >direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. >== >== >== > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:56 PM PST US From: "Yakjock" Subject: Yak-List: Batman's a Grandad! --> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" My lovely daughter gave birth to a baby girl this morning, my first grandchild! Batman ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:01 PM PST US Email found in subject Subject: Re: [SPAM] - RE: Yak-List: Flying over densely populated areas - Email found in subject From: Jay Land --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land Is there a transcript of your case anywhere that might be useful for the next victim of subjective enforcement of the "densely populated area" violation? Sounds like a good point for our RPA group to try to get "clarified" from the FAA. Otherwise, we are all breaking the rules and just waiting for some zealous FSDO guy to decide to violate us. It's not really worth flying these planes around to airshows if that's the case. Jay L > From: > Reply-To: > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 22:15:20 -0400 > To: > Subject: [SPAM] - RE: Yak-List: Flying over densely populated areas - Email > found in subject > > --> Yak-List message posted by: AirshowPilot1@aol.com > > I represented a pilot who was facing a 180 day suspension of his license for > overflying a "densely populated" area. The FAA lawyer assigned to the case > argued that a cluster of 3 or more houses was a "densely populated area." We > argued that it was the yellow areas depicted on the sectional. $20,000 of my > time later we were successful. > > In a message dated 7/12/2004 9:58:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Frank > Haertlein" writes: > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" >> >> Mark >> I can sympathize with you. In my 47 years of life on this earth I've >> seen all kinds of restrictions put on my freedoms. From not being able >> to fly over the Grand Canyon to being made to wear a motorcycle helmet >> to having countless millions of acres of camping ground made off >> limits........and that's just the tip of the iceberg. The road to hell >> is paved with good intentions........our government, with it's good >> intentions, will become tyrannical some day. When virtually every aspect >> of your life is prescribed by some law and virtually every aspect of >> your behavior is governed by some rule or regulation, you will know >> tyranny. >> >> By the way, your program letter is permission by the FAA to fly to the >> events you have listed no matter where they are. As another perspective, >> I completed my phase 1 operating limitations transiting Riverside, >> California. You would be hard pressed to NOT call that a densely >> populated area. >> Frank >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich >> GS11 Mark G >> To: 'yak-list@matronics.com' >> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Flying over densely populated areas >> >> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G >> --> >> >> I am SO sorry for venting, but this kind of nonsense just makes my blood >> boil! >> >> Stop and think about this for a minute: "May not be operated over a >> densely populated areas or in congested airways, except when otherwise >> directed by ATC or in an emergency situation". >> >> Ok, now how many of us fly on a cross country and pay attention to >> whether we happen to be flying over a "densely populated area" in our >> "Experimental >> Exhibition" aircraft. >> >> Next: Just what IS a "densely populated area" at least as regards this >> specific instruction? >> >> Worse, just what is a "Congested Airway" and how in heavens name is >> someone >> supposed to know THAT? >> >> Hal then wrote: "The rumor is someone did a low pass somewhere".... >> well, heck... there are plenty of rules that cover an illegal "low >> pass", otherwise known as flat-hatting. But the term "low pass" usually >> specifies something done at an airport or other legal area. The idea >> that the FAA would try to use the "Densely populated area" aspect of our >> aircraft certification tells me that they can't figure out what else to >> use EXCEPT for this, which tells ME that they are on a witch hunt and >> want to "get" someone no matter what it takes. >> >> Regardless, it would be interesting to see the FAA really try to >> prosecute a pilot for an "infraction" of this type. It would be nice if >> the FAA could be our friends instead of our enemies, and in some cases I >> think that relationship might actually exist, but stories like this >> really make you wonder. >> >> Mark Bitterlich >> N50YK >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Yakjock [mailto:Yakjock@msn.com] >> To: yak-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Yak-List: Flying over densely populated areas >> >> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" >> >> A heads up. Three of us here in Oregon have been preparing to do a >> flyover for a July 4th parade to be held on Saturday, the 3rd. Planes >> included a Yak 11, Yak 52 and CJ. The parade was to be held over the >> town of Hillsboro, a pretty widely spread metropolis of about 45,000 >> souls. We received word from the local FSDO that we could not fly over >> the parade due to the prohibition in our Operating Limitations that >> specifies: >> >> "Except for takeoffs and landings, this aircraft may not be operated >> over densely populated areas or in congested airways, except when >> otherwise directed by ATC or in an emergency situation. When >> exercising........" >> >> The rumor is that someone did a low pass somewhere and there were >> complaints and the FSDO is taking action against the pilot's certificate >> using the "densely populated" clause as a basis. The guy at the FSDO >> that warned our group is a friend of one of the pilots. >> >> You may wish to reread your limitations and think about whether or not >> you would be at risk. >> >> Heck of a way to celebrate Independence Day! >> >> Hal Morley >> >> >> == >> direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. >> == >> == >> == >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:12 PM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Re: Yak-List: Batman's a Grandad! --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com In a message dated 7/21/2004 12:49:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Yakjock@msn.com writes: > > My lovely daughter gave birth to a baby girl this morning, my first > grandchild! > > Batman > > > Coagulation!! Hope new Mom and kid doing OK. You know of course you're done as a 'free' man from now on. Granddaughters have a tendency of wrapping grand dads around their fingers. RU still getting MTW? Jim Goolsby "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin 1759 "With my shield, or on it" Trojan Warriors BC "The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes until some woman stomps all over them." Unknown older man.