Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:23 AM - Re: Longrange tanks downunder (Ernie)
2. 12:11 PM - Re: Longrange tanks downunder (Brian Lloyd)
3. 02:30 PM - Re: Longrange tanks downunder (Jorgen Nielsen)
4. 03:09 PM - Re: Longrange tanks downunder (Brian Lloyd)
5. 04:58 PM - Re: Longrange tanks downunder (Ernie)
6. 08:23 PM - Re: Longrange tanks downunder (Brian Lloyd)
7. 10:20 PM - Fall clinic (Barry Hancock)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Longrange tanks downunder |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Thanks Brian, I wont fly over mountains either.
I have 800nm legs in my "Forked Tail Dr Killer" so I could make it non stop,
but I would prefer an interim fuel stop for safety's sake.
If I come down I'll look you up, I bring down my dive gear, and my 100Ton
Masters ticket with sail endorsement (I used to be a charter capt in the
Keys, on my 50' gulfstar back in the 90's).
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Longrange tanks downunder
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
>
>
> Ernie Martinez wrote:
> > I'd love to have your waypoint list to the USVI from Fl. I someday hope
> > to have the courage to fly over water with a single engine. With the new
> > spam can with its long legs, this is now more of a reality. Your
> > experience with fuel stops and such would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Well, I am sure you will get disagreement from many but I view long
over-water flights as less risky than flights over the mountainous areas of
the Western United States. My chances of surviving a ditching and getting
rescued are much, much higher than my chances of surviving a forced landing
in the Sierra Nevada. But water really scares some people.
>
> Many airports don't have fuel so you have to plan accordingly. You
certainly cannot assume you will be able to fill up wherever you land so you
must plan your stops to leave ample fuel by the time you reach an airport
with fuel. In my recent flight to St. Lucia I had to hop back to Martinique
to get fuel. They only have diesel and jet-A at St. Lucia.
>
> I normally do the trip from Florida to St. Thomas with one fuel stop. It
used to be at Providenciales in the Turks & Caicos but two things killed
that for me. At Provo they have fees for their fees, e.g. a landing fee, a
handling fee, a customs fee, an after-hours customs fee on the weekend, etc.
Also, the US government requires a "waiver" from the TSA if I land in the
Turks & Caicos (no reason why that I can discern) and that takes two weeks
to obtain. OTOH, every time I have gotten close to the US the folks at
flight service have obtained for me an "instant" wavier after a bunch of
questions so perhaps that is less of an issue. Regardless, if you go to or
from the Bahamas, a wavier is not required.
>
> So I have started going to Great Inagua, the last island in the Bahamas
chain. This is a nice little island but definitely not a tourist stop.
OTOH, the people are really nice and usually bend over backward to
accommodate me. There are no fees other than the cost of gas for the plane.
They even fill out my customs forms for me and ask me to come back again.
OK, facilities aren't as nice but the gas guys are always willing to give me
a ride into town to grab a sandwich. Also, after a little problem with the
phone system preventing me from notifying them of my impending arrival, the
customs and fuel guys gave me their home and cell phone numbers so I can get
hold of them directly. That seems pretty accommodating to me.
>
> If you are coming up short on fuel range there are a couple of places I
know for sure have fuel:
>
> Freeport, Grand Bahama
> Nassau, Bahamas
> Stella Maris, Bahamas
> Great Inagua, Bahamas
> (one more in the Bahamas I can't remember)
> Puerta Plata, Dominican Republic
> Boqueron, Puerto Rico
> San Juan, Puerto Rico
> Fajardo, Puerto Rico
> St. Thomas
>
> These are also airports of entry so you can clear customs there too.
>
> I suspect I could craft a route that would allow a Yak-52 with stock fuel
make the trip comfortably and safely.
>
> Regardless, not all fuel stops are created equal. I have been told that
Puerta Plata is as usurious in their fuel cost and fees as Providenciales.
Since I can comfortably fly a 500nm leg in the Comanche, I just opt for
going to the places that work best for me.
>
> Still, I plan to do a "visit all the airports" trip one of these days.
Frankly, the fun trip is to go down-island from St. Thomas. The longest
over-water leg there is only about 60nm from Virgin Gorda in the British
Virgin Islands to St. Martin. After that leg you are always within sight of
an island. It makes navigation pretty easy.
>
> The French islands are far and away the most hospitable to GA aircraft
with customs and immigration clearance being a delight. You drop your
general declaration forms in the little mailbox attached to the unattended
customs building and go on your way. Boy, when the House of Representatives
renamed "French Fries" "Freedom Fries" they sure got that right. The French
still seem to understand freedom whereas we seem to have forgotten it here
in the US.
>
> If you are interested in flying down here I strongly recommend you pick up
a copy of the Bahamas & Caribbean Pilot's Guide from Pilot Publications in
San Diego (http://www.pilotpub.com). Many of the jumping-off airports in
Florida carry this book. It is a must for flying down here as it has all
the information about all the airports. It even has the approach plates for
the major airports in the Caribbean (not for navigation, of course).
>
> You know, it might be fun to have an ARS event down here. St. Thomas has
a great airport. Puerto Rico is just 30 minutes away with many more
airports to choose from. I guarantee good places to debrief after a day of
flying. Also, I can take everyone out for a sail and a dive on my boat. It
could be worse.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Longrange tanks downunder |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Ernie wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinet@oracle.com>
>
> Thanks Brian, I wont fly over mountains either.
Hey, they are there and airplanes fly over 'em. Most people survive. People who
take good care of their airplanes survive longer.
> I have 800nm legs in my "Forked Tail Dr Killer" so I could make it non stop,
> but I would prefer an interim fuel stop for safety's sake.
It is about 1000nm. You may find yourself just a leetle short so do make the fuel
stop. If you have the reserve to make it as far as Puerto Rico, you might
be able to avoid dealing with Customs since you have not stopped in a foreign
country. That might be something to consider. Still, that is a long haul.
Frankly, the annoying thing is having to deal with Customs on their schedule.
In St. Thomas they will be pleasant about taking you up to 7PM if you arrange
it first. They actually work until 8PM but don't like to be kept after. The
old days of "call for after hours customs service" are gone. If you can't get
there before they go home plan on stopping at San Juan International. The only
problem there is that it ends up chewing up about two hours by the time you
get all done.
So get an early start so you will have time for a leisurely lunch somewhere and
can still make it to Customs in St. Thomas by 7 PM.
Also remember that there is no night VFR over most of the islands. Only the US
and its territories permit night VFR operations.
> If I come down I'll look you up, I bring down my dive gear, and my 100Ton
> Masters ticket with sail endorsement (I used to be a charter capt in the
> Keys, on my 50' gulfstar back in the 90's).
Great! I could use a good deck hand. ;
)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Longrange tanks downunder |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Hey Brian & Ernie
Could not resist a reply - why? For so many years I have lived under
false understandings: your experiences sound exactly like mine, only a
few 10000 nm apart - the challenge with customs and immigration, long
range flying with no alternatives, knowing the local scene, no night
flying under vfr, levels of bearocracy , etc. etc.
It all sounds like here, exactly the same, based in SA & flying into
Africa! For years I have flown around Africa, only in SA is night VFR
flying permitted (sounds like illegal IFR flight plans being submitted
because of bereaucracy), neighbouring countries have ridiclous VFR
altitude limitations, airports close at odd times, and one plans ones
flight based on reasons other than best or ideal conditions. Having to
pay officials (yuk) for things like unlocking doors, will not do it, So
the conclusion: I always think we live in the backwater, that
everything is always better in Europe or USA, seems things are pretty
much the same anywhere you go? Your experiences mirror mine to a T.
BTW, also tried the sailing lark, did a DIY crash course and learnt to
sail, one day plan to do the round the world thing.
Regards
Jorgen (from southern South African USA)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Longrange tanks downunder
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Ernie wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinet@oracle.com>
>
> Thanks Brian, I wont fly over mountains either.
Hey, they are there and airplanes fly over 'em. Most people survive.
People who take good care of their airplanes survive longer.
> I have 800nm legs in my "Forked Tail Dr Killer" so I could make it non
> stop, but I would prefer an interim fuel stop for safety's sake.
It is about 1000nm. You may find yourself just a leetle short so do
make the fuel stop. If you have the reserve to make it as far as Puerto
Rico, you might be able to avoid dealing with Customs since you have not
stopped in a foreign country. That might be something to consider.
Still, that is a long haul.
Frankly, the annoying thing is having to deal with Customs on their
schedule. In St. Thomas they will be pleasant about taking you up to
7PM if you arrange it first. They actually work until 8PM but don't
like to be kept after. The old days of "call for after hours customs
service" are gone. If you can't get there before they go home plan on
stopping at San Juan International. The only problem there is that it
ends up chewing up about two hours by the time you get all done.
So get an early start so you will have time for a leisurely lunch
somewhere and can still make it to Customs in St. Thomas by 7 PM.
Also remember that there is no night VFR over most of the islands. Only
the US and its territories permit night VFR operations.
> If I come down I'll look you up, I bring down my dive gear, and my
> 100Ton Masters ticket with sail endorsement (I used to be a charter
> capt in the Keys, on my 50' gulfstar back in the 90's).
Great! I could use a good deck hand. ;
)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Longrange tanks downunder |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Jorgen Nielsen wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> Hey Brian & Ernie
>
> Could not resist a reply - why? For so many years I have lived under
> false understandings: your experiences sound exactly like mine, only a
> few 10000 nm apart - the challenge with customs and immigration, long
> range flying with no alternatives, knowing the local scene, no night
> flying under vfr, levels of bearocracy , etc. etc.
Well, that is because I am not in the USA anymore. The USVI pretends to be part
of the USA and we have people in the Department of Homeland Security running
around (used to be called Customs or Immigration, but now...) but mostly this
applies to all the countries I have to fly through, e.g. the Bahamas, Haiti,
Dominican Republic, etc.
> It all sounds like here, exactly the same, based in SA & flying into
> Africa! For years I have flown around Africa, only in SA is night VFR
> flying permitted (sounds like illegal IFR flight plans being submitted
> because of bereaucracy), neighbouring countries have ridiclous VFR
> altitude limitations, airports close at odd times, and one plans ones
> flight based on reasons other than best or ideal conditions.
Wow, that sounds like my experience flying in the UK, a most unfriendly place WRT
general aviation. (Flying in France used to be like flying in the US pre 9/11.)
> Having to
> pay officials (yuk) for things like unlocking doors, will not do it, So
> the conclusion: I always think we live in the backwater, that
> everything is always better in Europe or USA, seems things are pretty
> much the same anywhere you go? Your experiences mirror mine to a T.
Hey, we like to share.
> BTW, also tried the sailing lark, did a DIY crash course and learnt to
> sail, one day plan to do the round the world thing.
That is how I ended up here on this boat.
> Regards
> Jorgen (from southern South African USA)
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Longrange tanks downunder |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
I cheked it out on my flight planner, Great Inuagua would be a good stop.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Longrange tanks downunder
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
>
> Ernie wrote:
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinet@oracle.com>
> >
> > Thanks Brian, I wont fly over mountains either.
>
> Hey, they are there and airplanes fly over 'em. Most people survive.
People who take good care of their airplanes survive longer.
>
> > I have 800nm legs in my "Forked Tail Dr Killer" so I could make it non
stop,
> > but I would prefer an interim fuel stop for safety's sake.
>
> It is about 1000nm. You may find yourself just a leetle short so do make
the fuel stop. If you have the reserve to make it as far as Puerto Rico,
you might be able to avoid dealing with Customs since you have not stopped
in a foreign country. That might be something to consider. Still, that is
a long haul.
>
> Frankly, the annoying thing is having to deal with Customs on their
schedule. In St. Thomas they will be pleasant about taking you up to 7PM if
you arrange it first. They actually work until 8PM but don't like to be
kept after. The old days of "call for after hours customs service" are
gone. If you can't get there before they go home plan on stopping at San
Juan International. The only problem there is that it ends up chewing up
about two hours by the time you get all done.
>
> So get an early start so you will have time for a leisurely lunch
somewhere and can still make it to Customs in St. Thomas by 7 PM.
>
> Also remember that there is no night VFR over most of the islands. Only
the US and its territories permit night VFR operations.
>
> > If I come down I'll look you up, I bring down my dive gear, and my
100Ton
> > Masters ticket with sail endorsement (I used to be a charter capt in the
> > Keys, on my 50' gulfstar back in the 90's).
>
> Great! I could use a good deck hand. ;
> )
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
> A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Longrange tanks downunder |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Ernie wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
> I cheked it out on my flight planner, Great Inuagua would be a good stop.
Of course it would. I told you so. ;
)
When you get ready to go I will give you a pocket full of phone numbers. You need
the number for the general store where the guy who pumps fuel hangs out.
The woman there will also line up the Customs guy. If that doesn't work I can
help you with their cell phones. If all else fails you can call the chief constable
at home. Nope, not in the US!
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest.
A good citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Hi Gang,
Hope this flying season is treating you well. After months of market
research we have determined that a slightly different course is needed
to open up advanced formation training to the masses.
What we have discovered is that there is a large contingent of intrepid
aviators that are interested in tactical formation and tail chase
exercises, but are not altogether "psyched" over the requisite G's of
ACM. To this end, we have decided to tailor the program differently
than we have up to this point.
In order to have higher levels of participation, tactical formation,
tail chase, and actual simulated Air Combat Maneuvers are going to be
an end unto themselves. Why, you ask? Well, it seems there are a lot
of folks that want to do a lot of ACM type stuff, but that have no
desire to make their necks scream or toy with G-LOC. Frankly, I can't
blame you. It takes a rather twisted mind to intentionally subject
yourself and your airplane to that type of abuse...right, Keith? :)
The tactical formation syllabus will guide FAST qualified pilots
through the next step in formation training, or "advanced formation."
Not only is this much more dynamic and fun than parade station keeping,
it is a useful cross-country tool and, most importantly, another reason
to go flying on the weekend! The ground school for this is a mere
40-60 minutes. Training will take 3-4 hops for both comm in and comm
out procedures. Comm out will come in especially handy when you're
raiding a T-34 base...
The "tail chase" (c'mon, gang, I'm talking about airplanes here...stick
with me!) syllabus is where it gets really fun...without a lot of G's.
Here you will learn lead and lag pursuit, hi and low yo-yo's, and lag
rolls. All very fun... without having to visit the chiropractor on
Monday! Ground school for this is, again, about 40-60 minutes.
Training hops will be as many and as much fun (read "anywhere from all
horizontal to pure vertical") as you can handle.
Of course, by this point, you may just have had your mind twisted
enough to forge on with ACM....and Keith and I will be the first to
console you on your move to the truly dark side. :) The dynamics of
ACM are exponentially expanded when you compare them to tail chase, and
it does require some academic understanding. For example, "rolling
G's" are an important concept to understand, and we will spend some
time covering topics such as this during the ground school. The good
thing is, with both the Tac Form, and tail chase under your belt, the
ACM ground school will be in the 60-75 minute range.
The bottom line is we now understand that people's fun meter pegs at
different levels. Many are interested in doing "something more" but
have had the impression that it's either "full up ACM, or bust." By
breaking the training into three separate levels that are an end unto
themselves, hopefully there will be something for everyone. I do know
this, at the end of the day it's just more fun to see 16 airplanes
parked on the ramp as opposed to 8 or 10...no matter wether you're
learning a "shackle turn" in tac form, or teaching the finer points of
a "rolling scissors" in ACM.
As this is simply the latest concept in a young and developing area of
our association, I would appreciate your feedback. Please email me
directly at radialpower@cox.net.
Additionally, we would like to try this setup out at a fall clinic in
California. We will decide on a location based on the place central to
most participating pilots. Please email me if you are interested, and
what dates in September/October work for you.
Thanks!
Your humble servant,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Western Regional Coordinator
RedStar Pilots Association
(949) 300-5510
www.flyredstar.org
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
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