Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:29 AM - Decals/Paint (Janet Davidson)
2. 10:41 AM - Wing tip smoke (Barry Hancock)
3. 10:43 AM - Re: My only point.. (Barry Hancock)
4. 10:49 AM - More smoke (Barry Hancock)
5. 11:40 AM - Re: More smoke (Gus Fraser)
6. 11:55 AM - Tachometer Woes (cpayne1@joimail.com)
7. 12:17 PM - Re: More smoke (Richard Basiliere)
8. 12:26 PM - wing tip smoke (Roger Baker)
9. 12:34 PM - Re: More smoke (Doug Sapp)
10. 01:12 PM - Re: wing tip smoke (Brian Lloyd)
11. 01:19 PM - Re: More smoke (Aubrey Price)
12. 01:32 PM - (no subject) (Vectorwarbirds@aol.com)
13. 01:51 PM - CJ project on Ebay (Doug Sapp)
14. 02:00 PM - Re: More smoke (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
15. 04:35 PM - Tachometer Woes (Frank Stelwagon)
16. 04:54 PM - Re: CJ project on Ebay (Kendel McCarley)
17. 07:33 PM - Re: More smoke (cjpilot710@aol.com)
18. 10:06 PM - Re: CJ project on Ebay (Jim Selby)
19. 11:24 PM - Re: More smoke (Barry Hancock)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Janet Davidson" <gbvfx@hotmail.com>
If you are thinking of painting your plane, I can thoroughly recommend Craig
Barnett at www.schemedesigners.com He's working on a paint scheme for my
Nanchang and has infinite patience ;) along with great ideas,
Janet
>________________________________ Message 5
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 11:44:07 AM PST US
>From: "WSC/Herb Coussons" <drc@wscare.com>
>Subject: Yak-List: Decals
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "WSC/Herb Coussons" <drc@wscare.com>
>
>Steve Dalton,
>I copied the name and email of the guy who did all of the Russian decals
>for your
>plane but have since misplaced the info. If you could email me the info I
>would appreciate it.
>Thanks,
>Herb Coussons
>drc@wscare.com
>
>
>________________________________ Message 6
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 12:11:40 PM PST US
>From: "Mark Morgan" <aircraftmanager@msn.com>
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: Decals
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Morgan" <aircraftmanager@msn.com>
>
>Herb,
>
>When you get this info, do you mind sharing with me? I am planning on
>painting my Yak52 this fall.
>
>Mark Morgan
>
>
> >From: "WSC/Herb Coussons" <drc@wscare.com>
> >Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >To: "Yak-List Digest Server" <yak-list-digest@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Yak-List: Decals
> >Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:42:04 -0500
> >
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "WSC/Herb Coussons" <drc@wscare.com>
> >
> >Steve Dalton,
> >I copied the name and email of the guy who did all of the Russian decals
> >for your plane but have since misplaced the info. If you could email me
> >the info I would appreciate it.
> >Thanks,
> >Herb Coussons
> >drc@wscare.com
> >
> >
>
>
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Eddie Andreini uses warehouse fumigators on his Yak-9...they work very
well!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: My only point.. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
>
> If I want to hear
> what is wrong with the world, I will head to CNN.
How ironic...CNN *is* part of what's wrong with the world....
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
From what I have discerned and witnessed, flow is not the critical
factor in a good smoke system...*pressure* is. You need at least 60
psi....the rest (injector location, flow rate, etc.) is all secondary.
Now, someone was talking about using system air pressure for the smoke
system? This is how the Sukhoi does it, I understand. Someone please
'esplain how this system would be put together?
Thanks!
Barry (dying to get the smoke system finished in my airplane) Hancock
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Barry,
For the no BS answer I would contact Nigel Warren at Snaproll.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Barry Hancock
Subject: Yak-List: More smoke
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
From what I have discerned and witnessed, flow is not the critical
factor in a good smoke system...*pressure* is. You need at least 60
psi....the rest (injector location, flow rate, etc.) is all secondary.
Now, someone was talking about using system air pressure for the smoke
system? This is how the Sukhoi does it, I understand. Someone please
'esplain how this system would be put together?
Thanks!
Barry (dying to get the smoke system finished in my airplane) Hancock
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne1@joimail.com" <cpayne1@matronics.com>
All,
I need an 2-1/4" electronic tach for the rear cockpit. I
have a Horizon in the front (M-14P engined CJ) but it is
3-1/8". My old UMA tach drive won't work as my current
engine didn't come with the same kinda of drive pin in the
air distributor as my racing engine has.
What to do? Anyone know of a 2-1/4" electronic tach for 9
cyl, driven off the P-leads? I'm not ready yet to put a new
panel in the rear; it's something about doing the front one
first....
Craig Payne
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Barry, sir, et al...
Having been up to my eyeballs in Sukhoi smoke system I will attempt to
"esplain".
The compressor fills the bottle, behind the seat of the -29, the line
that leaves the bottle "Y's" and one line goes to an air solenoid that
is under the front seat. This solenoid turns off/on with the circuit
breaker and the smoke switch on the throttle. When the solenoid is
activated it allows, a reduced amount/pressure, air to go to the smoke
tank in the right wing. Through this pressurization the smoke oil from
the tank then is sent/pushed to another solenoid on the firewall that
starts/stops the flow of oil - also by the smoke switch on the throttle.
The downstream side of this solenoid is the splitter which sends the
oil to both exhausts.
The "funny" part of the system (at least to me) is the air solenoid.
The valve has a hole so darned small the smallest safety wire could not
fit to clean it out. However, with the use of an air gun (80psi or so)
and some cleaning solvent - sho nuf - it spits a little stuff through
the valve (not on center).
BTW, I was asked (as a plan B) to do a "fly over" as a tribute to our
Veterans at the Larimer County (CO) Fair. I took my "war bird" SU-29
(thank you) and got with Joe Wilkins, H.O.Beckett, and Roy Murray. 4
Fly overs including Missing Man. The crowd loved it. The pictures look
kinda funny - gear dragger SU-29 lead for 3 Yak-52s - but lots of high
quality smoke.
Respectfully, Ricky B
>>> radialpower@cox.net 8/11/2004 11:49:43 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
From what I have discerned and witnessed, flow is not the critical
factor in a good smoke system...*pressure* is. You need at least 60
psi....the rest (injector location, flow rate, etc.) is all secondary.
Now, someone was talking about using system air pressure for the smoke
system? This is how the Sukhoi does it, I understand. Someone please
'esplain how this system would be put together?
Thanks!
Barry (dying to get the smoke system finished in my airplane) Hancock
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Baker <f4ffm2@adelphia.net>
How to get wing tip smoke in a 52? Well, out there at the tips you must
have those things that cause smoke; a hot fire in some kind of containment,
something "smokey" to heat (corvis oil...under pressure), some kind of pump
to supply that pressure and electricity to power it. Plus a control system
so you can turn it on and off.
That is less than simple to achieve from scratch.
Brian Lloyd mentioned the Sanders brothers "Smokewinders", which are the
most sophisticated smoke generators that may ever have existed, without
mentioning that they probably will cost more than your airplane. Deservedly
so, for all their sophistication.
Many moons ago, I drove the Sanders brothers' father, Frank, from his hangar
at Long Beach up to Nagel Aircraft Parts (now gone) at Torrance airport. He
had been figuring out how to get smoke at the wing tips of his Sea Fury FB
Mk 11. At Nagels', he bought what became the basis for the original smoke
generators that so many of us saw at his airshow performances over the
years. What he bought that day was a pair of used cabin heaters built for
light twins. These heater cores, heavily modified, formed the first smoke
generators that Frank made.
The "Smokewinders" that Brian and Dennis make today are descendants of those
originals. However, comparing the original pair to their production
generators of today would be like comparing a SPAD to an F-22.
Tip smoke ain't easy but it sure is spectacular!
Roger Baker
Time: 04:42:01 PM PST US
From: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: E-mail virus
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 10, 2004, at 6:44 PM, Gus Fraser wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> In Russia the pilots takes off with a couple of mechanics sitting on
> the
> wings, that tends to produce LOADS of smoke :))
>
> But seriously, you might want to speak to the jet guys, they do that
> sort of
> thing. I know that the units that do this are not cheap.
The Sanders brothers in Ione, CA, make the "Smokewinder". It is a
standard AIM-9 package that generates smoke on demand. I it uses the
standard plug and is compatible with all the NATO standard weapons
delivery packages so if you select air-to-air, arm, and launch, it
turns on the smoke. After that, the release switch on your grip turns
the smoke on and off. If you have hard-points for NATO standard AIM's
it is a bolt-on solution for you. Looks just right on your F-16.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Barry,
That was me, we talked about it over hot cakes one morning at the Sapp-san
Hotel after you delivered the CJ. I thought you seemed to be concentrating
more on your syrup intake than the finer points of my oratory, but at the
time I was not sure. If I recall correctly your reply was somewhat muffled
by the recent intake of about 6 sq. inches of hot cake and the napkin that
you were using to wipe the syrup off your chin. But at one point you did
nod your head as you were chewing, but it was then that I could tell from
your eyes that most of what I had said had not made it past the ear wax and
the sugar was starting to take effect anyway so that's about the time when I
changed the subject to my not understanding how he hell anyone would put
syrup on his bacon!! :>)
I think that with 50 ATMS to work with we should have enough pressure to
both atomize the oil AND keep the carbon from clogging up the nozzles. Stay
tuned and I'll let you know when I get mine going. But like the biggest
share of my mods, most are still on the bench because of lack of time and a
flying test bed aircraft. Now that I have solved the latter problem and for
the first time in 2 years I have something to fly I just have to stop flying
so I have more time to work right?? Don't like the sound of this!! Tell me
again why I have the new CJ?? :o(
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Barry Hancock
Subject: Yak-List: More smoke
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
From what I have discerned and witnessed, flow is not the critical
factor in a good smoke system...*pressure* is. You need at least 60
psi....the rest (injector location, flow rate, etc.) is all secondary.
Now, someone was talking about using system air pressure for the smoke
system? This is how the Sukhoi does it, I understand. Someone please
'esplain how this system would be put together?
Thanks!
Barry (dying to get the smoke system finished in my airplane) Hancock
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: wing tip smoke |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 11, 2004, at 3:26 PM, Roger Baker wrote:
> Brian Lloyd mentioned the Sanders brothers "Smokewinders", which are
> the
> most sophisticated smoke generators that may ever have existed, without
> mentioning that they probably will cost more than your airplane.
> Deservedly
> so, for all their sophistication.
Oh, I don't know. Hal and Barry have spent plenty on their airplanes.
What's the cost of a couple of Smokewinders? ;-)
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Aubrey Price <aprice@vartec.net>
You are reading my mind. I have been playing with the idea of putting a
pressure regulator in the air system that would drop the pressure to some
low number 10 to 60 pounds. Feed the air to a small pressure vessel filled
with oil and then run the line to the old electric valve used to dilute the
oil. Then to an injector at the exhaust. Seems like it should work. If you
get it working, I would like the details.
Aubrey N288Y
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Hancock [mailto:radialpower@cox.net]
Subject: Yak-List: More smoke
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
From what I have discerned and witnessed, flow is not the critical
factor in a good smoke system...*pressure* is. You need at least 60
psi....the rest (injector location, flow rate, etc.) is all secondary.
Now, someone was talking about using system air pressure for the smoke
system? This is how the Sukhoi does it, I understand. Someone please
'esplain how this system would be put together?
Thanks!
Barry (dying to get the smoke system finished in my airplane) Hancock
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Vectorwarbirds@aol.com
I don't know about the rest of those guys but this is what I am using and it
looks great from the ground and little or no oil on the aircraft. I am using
a Flojet electric pump designed for oil. Puts out 100psi max. An elect. relay
switch from a kitchen appliance to run the pump from the gun trigger. An
elect. solenoid up at the fire wall to stop the flow for sure. I am running two
lines to both exhaust pipes and a .020 stainless steel jet made from a bolt.
They just screw into another bolt so I can change them out for different sizes
or when they get dirty. All this stuff was cheap and is in 24V. Using a race
car fuel tank for the oil, which by the way is concrete form oil. So as you
can see all done on the cheap!
Tally Ho !
Gary Bunn
Message 13
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| Subject: | CJ project on Ebay |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2486171010&ssp
agename=ADME%3AB%3ADS%3AUS%3A28
Here is a low cost CJ6 project if anyone is looking.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Aubrey Price
Subject: RE: Yak-List: More smoke
--> Yak-List message posted by: Aubrey Price <aprice@vartec.net>
You are reading my mind. I have been playing with the idea of putting a
pressure regulator in the air system that would drop the pressure to some
low number 10 to 60 pounds. Feed the air to a small pressure vessel filled
with oil and then run the line to the old electric valve used to dilute the
oil. Then to an injector at the exhaust. Seems like it should work. If you
get it working, I would like the details.
Aubrey N288Y
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Hancock [mailto:radialpower@cox.net]
Subject: Yak-List: More smoke
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
From what I have discerned and witnessed, flow is not the critical
factor in a good smoke system...*pressure* is. You need at least 60
psi....the rest (injector location, flow rate, etc.) is all secondary.
Now, someone was talking about using system air pressure for the smoke
system? This is how the Sukhoi does it, I understand. Someone please
'esplain how this system would be put together?
Thanks!
Barry (dying to get the smoke system finished in my airplane) Hancock
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Aubrey, this is EXACTLY how the Sukhoi 26 that I work on for a friend is
designed, right down to the exact valve you plan on using to turn it on and
off. I pulled that solanoid valve OFF of my YAK (fuel dilution valve) and
kept it specifically to use as a spare for his system.
I would consider having an ARM switch that would pressurize your tank when
turned on, and then a smoke switch that opens the flow to the exhaust.
Be careful of running the lines to the exhaust "bungs" where the hoses will
attach on the exhaust If there is any stress on these hoses at all, it will
soon crack the bung fittings on the titanium exhaust tubes themselves. I've
seen that happen more than once.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
p.s. All you need is still in production for the Sukhoi's....... including
the stainless steel braided lines and all fittings.
-----Original Message-----
From: Aubrey Price [mailto:aprice@vartec.net]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: More smoke
--> Yak-List message posted by: Aubrey Price <aprice@vartec.net>
You are reading my mind. I have been playing with the idea of putting a
pressure regulator in the air system that would drop the pressure to some
low number 10 to 60 pounds. Feed the air to a small pressure vessel filled
with oil and then run the line to the old electric valve used to dilute the
oil. Then to an injector at the exhaust. Seems like it should work. If you
get it working, I would like the details.
Aubrey N288Y
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Hancock [mailto:radialpower@cox.net]
Subject: Yak-List: More smoke
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
Gang,
From what I have discerned and witnessed, flow is not the critical
factor in a good smoke system...*pressure* is. You need at least 60
psi....the rest (injector location, flow rate, etc.) is all secondary.
Now, someone was talking about using system air pressure for the smoke
system? This is how the Sukhoi does it, I understand. Someone please
'esplain how this system would be put together?
Thanks!
Barry (dying to get the smoke system finished in my airplane) Hancock
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
EI makes a 2 1/4 inch tach that works great in the CJ's. EI phone: 541 318 6060
E Mail: Sales@Buy-Ei.com.
Frank
Cj6-A N23021
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: CJ project on Ebay |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Kendel McCarley <kmmccarley@earthlink.net>
Doug,
That's the same project I talked to you about back in April/June, but ended up
passing on. This is the one that got run through a barbwire fence and then the
mechanic sold parts off of it without the owner's permission while it was in
for rebuild.
It's also been on eBay before. This time, there's a different list of what's there
and what's missing. I don't know if it's because the owner finally did an
inventory or what. When I last spoke to him, the canopy, engine, prop, mount,
wiring, avionics, and some other things were missing. Now, I see the canopy
there but the vertical stab is gone and there's no mention of avionics. You'll
also notice clecos holding a wing skin on (not mentioned in the description)
and lots of little parts, like lights, missing.
I'm still looking for a project (may have it this weekend, if things work out).
I'd suggest anyone considering this particular project should inventory it before
money changes hands.
- Kendel
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com>
Subject: Yak-List: CJ project on Ebay
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2486171010&ssp
agename=ADME%3AB%3ADS%3AUS%3A28
Here is a low cost CJ6 project if anyone is looking.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Message 17
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
My smoke system is made up of an old 24V fuel pump, toggle switch, home made
old tank, and the old oil dilution valve on the fire wall. I made the oil tank
the same size as the old ADF receiver and mounted it on the ADF rack. The
filler neck goes forward and out to the upper left conner of the right access
hatch just behind the right wing trailing edge. A hose goes from the bottom of
the tank (5.1 gals) to the fuel pump and than on to the old dilution valve
(still mounted at the same place). From there the line goes into a T, than to
both exhaust stacks.
When I turn on the toggle switch, I send power to both the pump and dilution
valve. When I open the switch both the pump shuts down and the valve closes.
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
deserve neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"With my shield, or on it"
Trojan Warriors BC
"The reason older men are like fine wine. When young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: CJ project on Ebay |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Selby" <alikatz@mbay.net>
Kendel & Doug,
I have also been looking at the same project, but I agree, one should go
and see exactly what they're getting into. No Engine, No Cowl, Vert Stab and
some instruments.. Never noticed Clincos on the wings and he's not quite
sure what he has since he hasn't been back to the Hanger. I do know the
electrical was removed from the Aircraft.
I spoke with one gentleman that we deal with a lot and his Flag seems to
go up on it, so maybe one should fly out and see just what type of a project
this might turn into. There are many of us whom have the facilities and
probably most of the extra parts that are missing to put this thing
together...... But again, it is a PROJECT........
Talk with you all soon.
Best,
Jim Selby, Jr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kendel McCarley" <kmmccarley@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ project on Ebay
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Kendel McCarley <kmmccarley@earthlink.net>
>
> Doug,
>
> That's the same project I talked to you about back in April/June, but
ended up passing on. This is the one that got run through a barbwire fence
and then the mechanic sold parts off of it without the owner's permission
while it was in for rebuild.
>
> It's also been on eBay before. This time, there's a different list of
what's there and what's missing. I don't know if it's because the owner
finally did an inventory or what. When I last spoke to him, the canopy,
engine, prop, mount, wiring, avionics, and some other things were missing.
Now, I see the canopy there but the vertical stab is gone and there's no
mention of avionics. You'll also notice clecos holding a wing skin on (not
mentioned in the description) and lots of little parts, like lights,
missing.
>
> I'm still looking for a project (may have it this weekend, if things work
out). I'd suggest anyone considering this particular project should
inventory it before money changes hands.
>
> - Kendel
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: CJ project on Ebay
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2486171010&ssp
> agename=ADME%3AB%3ADS%3AUS%3A28
>
> Here is a low cost CJ6 project if anyone is looking.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
>
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
> >
>
> Barry,
> That was me, we talked about it over hot cakes one morning at the
> Sapp-san
> Hotel after you delivered the CJ. I thought you seemed to be
> concentrating
> more on your syrup intake than the finer points of my oratory, but at
> the
> time I was not sure. If I recall correctly your reply was somewhat
> muffled
> by the recent intake of about 6 sq. inches of hot cake and the napkin
> that
> you were using to wipe the syrup off your chin. But at one point you
> did
> nod your head as you were chewing, but it was then that I could tell
> from
> your eyes that most of what I had said had not made it past the ear
> wax and
> the sugar was starting to take effect anyway so that's about the time
> when I
> changed the subject to my not understanding how he hell anyone would
> put
> syrup on his bacon!! :>)
ROFL!!!!! That is FUNNY! I haven't laughed that hard in awhile!
Thanks!
Next time I'm up make me eggs over easy, bacon, and english muffins
with strawberry jelly...I'll show you another Hancock culinary delight!
BTW, the world famous Sapp-san Hotel is located right next to the
notorious Sapp Interplanetary Airport...it's one heck of a place to
visit! If you show up on a Sunday morning, you too can have the famous
Sapp-cakes, complete with warm syrup that goes really well on bacon!
:)
Word is getting out in the ferry pilot community, Doug...you've really
raised the bar!
B
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