Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:57 AM - Re: Strangers on my flight (Gus Fraser)
2. 05:11 AM - Re: Strangers on my flight (Brian Lloyd)
3. 05:24 AM - Re: Stangers on my flight (off-topic posts must stop) (scott.huff@aivia.aero)
4. 05:31 AM - Re: Strangers on my flight (Jerome Van der Schaar)
5. 05:55 AM - Re: Strangers on my flight (Gerald Sweidan)
6. 06:15 AM - Re: Strangers on my flight (Ernie Martinez)
7. 06:16 AM - Re: Strangers on my flight (Ernie Martinez)
8. 06:17 AM - Wing man (jay reiter)
9. 06:26 AM - politics and other meta-issues (Brian Lloyd)
10. 07:03 AM - Re: Strangers on my flight (Frank Haertlein)
11. 07:14 AM - Alternators for the 52 (Frank Haertlein)
12. 07:35 AM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Brian Lloyd)
13. 08:25 AM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Sam Sax)
14. 08:50 AM - Re: Strangers on my flight (Walt Lannon)
15. 10:22 AM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Jorgen Nielsen)
16. 12:11 PM - Re: Strangers on my flight (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
17. 12:24 PM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
18. 12:30 PM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
19. 01:17 PM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Jorgen Nielsen)
20. 01:46 PM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Brian Lloyd)
21. 01:52 PM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Brian Lloyd)
22. 02:29 PM - Re: Yak-52 Props (Doug Sapp)
23. 02:41 PM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
24. 06:57 PM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Brian Lloyd)
25. 08:10 PM - YAK-52 FOR SALE (CHAD FELDPOUCH)
26. 10:05 PM - Re: Alternators for the 52 (Sam Sax)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Strangers on my flight |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
OK that's it. I post something about how to engineer parts for your aircraft
and it gets two comments. Some git posts a poem and it get, a large stream
of comment, unsubscribing now.
See ya
Gus Fraser
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of YakL1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Strangers on my flight
--> Yak-List message posted by: YakL1@aol.com
I'll go with Jim Jr. The post was something you had to go to on your own.
If it's not to your taste, your computer has a delete key. I find it
neither
xenophobic or racist. There were no Swedes, Norwegians, Germans or others
of European extraction among those who hijacked aircraft on 9/11...that's
not
racist, it's just a fact. And none that bombed the Towers in 1993, or the
USS Cole, or the Marine barracks in Beruit, or the American Embassies in
Africa. And none that held US citizens hostage for over a year in Tehran
in 1979.
It is not xenophobic or racist to know your enemies.
Somebody has a thin skin...I don't care what color it is or what's wrapped
about the cephlad end.
I think pilots would feel free to post here anything they think might be of
interest to their friends and associates. Nobody is making anybody read
anything.
John
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Strangers on my flight |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:57 AM, Gus Fraser wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> OK that's it. I post something about how to engineer parts for your
> aircraft
> and it gets two comments. Some git posts a poem and it get, a large
> stream
> of comment, unsubscribing now.
The difference you can't see is that I saved your post on the parts
fabricator in my permanent reference archive and forwarded it to other
friends building/maintaining aircraft. I just deleted the political BS
messages.
Please stick around.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Stangers on my flight (off-topic posts must stop) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: scott.huff@aivia.aero
"I think pilots would feel free to post here anything they think might be of
interest to their friends and associates. Nobody is making anybody read
anything".
Vehemently disagree, John. Some of us get the digest version and must filter
the meaningful posts from the crap within a single email message. If I got
this kind of email traffic on a per-email basis (i.e. real time vice the
digest), I would be even more annoyed. I joined the "Yak list" because I
wanted to read and exchange information pertaining to Yaks. I shouldn't have
to filter through other people's political and racist banter because they can't
(or choose not to) stay on topic!
Punch line: If it doesn't have to do with Yaks (or flying Yaks) take it off
this list ... PLEASE. If you think an off-topic post is "of interest to
friends and associates" then use a private distribution list ... NOT a public
subscribed list.
Gus Fraser ... please come back to the list. Your contributions are greatly
appreciated!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Strangers on my flight |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerome Van der Schaar" <jvds30@hotmail.com>
Guys,
Just thought I had a funny song here, like the wingman song or whatever is
funny and aviation related. Not my intention to open up a discussion and/or
to insult anybody, come on.
Forget the damn e-mail and start talking Yaks again.
Ciao.
Jerome
Message 5
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| Subject: | Strangers on my flight |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gerald Sweidan" <gerald.sweidan@sweidan.co.za>
I agree with Brian - most times we read and file without comment -
doesn't mean we agree or even more like what we read. The list need
people like you.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Strangers on my flight
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:57 AM, Gus Fraser wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> OK that's it. I post something about how to engineer parts for your
> aircraft
> and it gets two comments. Some git posts a poem and it get, a large
> stream
> of comment, unsubscribing now.
The difference you can't see is that I saved your post on the parts
fabricator in my permanent reference archive and forwarded it to other
friends building/maintaining aircraft. I just deleted the political BS
messages.
Please stick around.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
==
==
==
==
Message 6
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| Subject: | Strangers on my flight |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Ditto,
I downloaded the CAD software and went through the audio tutorial. I'm
trying to figure out what to make first.
I'm just deleting all the other garbage as fast as I can see the posters
names.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Strangers on my flight
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:57 AM, Gus Fraser wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> OK that's it. I post something about how to engineer parts for your
> aircraft
> and it gets two comments. Some git posts a poem and it get, a large
> stream
> of comment, unsubscribing now.
The difference you can't see is that I saved your post on the parts
fabricator in my permanent reference archive and forwarded it to other
friends building/maintaining aircraft. I just deleted the political BS
messages.
Please stick around.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
==
==
==
==
Message 7
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| Subject: | Strangers on my flight |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie Martinez" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Can someone send me the link to the wingman song again. I liked that
one.
Ernie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerome Van der
Schaar
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Strangers on my flight
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jerome Van der Schaar"
<jvds30@hotmail.com>
Guys,
Just thought I had a funny song here, like the wingman song or whatever
is
funny and aviation related. Not my intention to open up a discussion
and/or
to insult anybody, come on.
Forget the damn e-mail and start talking Yaks again.
Ciao.
Jerome
==
==
==
==
Message 8
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay reiter" <jmreiter@adelphia.net>
Thanks for reminding me I still have the Wing man in My Music
Message 9
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| Subject: | politics and other meta-issues |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
There are a number of things that affect our flying and are therefore
reasonable fodder for discussion. There is no question that
maintenance and training issues are absolutely appropriate.
But there are valid political issues as well. When a government issues
regulations it affects our ability to fly. To my mind it seems
reasonable to discuss actions on the part of government employees and
officials that result in hardship or even safety-of-flight issues for
the pilot.
But once you get into the political realm it is easy to cross over into
an area that is inappropriate. Much of what has happened to restrict
our flying in the last three years in the US has been as a result of
stupid, unthinking actions on the part of governmental officials in
response to the events on Sept 11, 2001, so it is easy to somehow
connect the actions of the terrorists with the affect on our flying
even tho' there is no direct connection. This leads to people blaming
the terrorists for our problems when the immediate problem is
inappropriate reaction on the part of the government.
OK, so I know how we got here. How do we get away from it again and
focus on just those aspects of the political that are appropriate to
flight?
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
Message 10
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| Subject: | Strangers on my flight |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Bryan
Funny thing, I immediately made emachineshop.com one of my favorites and
posted it to some of my friends as well. Gus, thanks for the link!
Frank
Flying the rip snortin' YAK-52
With tail number N9110M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Strangers on my flight
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 27, 2004, at 6:57 AM, Gus Fraser wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> OK that's it. I post something about how to engineer parts for your
> aircraft
> and it gets two comments. Some git posts a poem and it get, a large
> stream
> of comment, unsubscribing now.
The difference you can't see is that I saved your post on the parts
fabricator in my permanent reference archive and forwarded it to other
friends building/maintaining aircraft. I just deleted the political BS
messages.
Please stick around.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 11
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| Subject: | Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakinators;
I'm wanting to install the B&C alternator and regulator. Looks to be a
big weight savings and with no commutator brushes to worry about looks
like it should last almost forever. Only problem is I'm not sure which
model to get. What is the max current draw with everything lit up and
running in the 52?
Thanks in Advance
Frank
YAK-52
N9110M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Yak-List: politics and other meta-issues
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
There are a number of things that affect our flying and are therefore
reasonable fodder for discussion. There is no question that
maintenance and training issues are absolutely appropriate.
But there are valid political issues as well. When a government issues
regulations it affects our ability to fly. To my mind it seems
reasonable to discuss actions on the part of government employees and
officials that result in hardship or even safety-of-flight issues for
the pilot.
But once you get into the political realm it is easy to cross over into
an area that is inappropriate. Much of what has happened to restrict
our flying in the last three years in the US has been as a result of
stupid, unthinking actions on the part of governmental officials in
response to the events on Sept 11, 2001, so it is easy to somehow
connect the actions of the terrorists with the affect on our flying
even tho' there is no direct connection. This leads to people blaming
the terrorists for our problems when the immediate problem is
inappropriate reaction on the part of the government.
OK, so I know how we got here. How do we get away from it again and
focus on just those aspects of the political that are appropriate to
flight?
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 27, 2004, at 10:14 AM, Frank Haertlein wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Yakinators;
>
> I'm wanting to install the B&C alternator and regulator. Looks to be a
> big weight savings and with no commutator brushes to worry about looks
> like it should last almost forever. Only problem is I'm not sure which
> model to get. What is the max current draw with everything lit up and
> running in the 52?
With the generator turned off (engine not running) turn everything on
and look at the drain on the ammeter. That will tell you what your
full-up load would be. Size your alternator so that the full-up load
is less than 90% of the alternator's rated capacity.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
Message 13
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| Subject: | Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Frank,
Don't know the total Amp draw of a Yak-52 or a CJ-6 but I can tell you that
I've been flying my M-14P CJ6 with the B&C 35 Amp Alternator for over 4
years without a problem. 35 amps will do the job plenty for the CJ
electrical system, inverters and all. I believe B&C now makes a 50 amp
model as well.
Good product, good weight saver, excellent " firewall extra space maker" and
expensive somewhat.
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein
Subject: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakinators;
I'm wanting to install the B&C alternator and regulator. Looks to be a
big weight savings and with no commutator brushes to worry about looks
like it should last almost forever. Only problem is I'm not sure which
model to get. What is the max current draw with everything lit up and
running in the 52?
Thanks in Advance
Frank
YAK-52
N9110M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Yak-List: politics and other meta-issues
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
There are a number of things that affect our flying and are therefore
reasonable fodder for discussion. There is no question that
maintenance and training issues are absolutely appropriate.
But there are valid political issues as well. When a government issues
regulations it affects our ability to fly. To my mind it seems
reasonable to discuss actions on the part of government employees and
officials that result in hardship or even safety-of-flight issues for
the pilot.
But once you get into the political realm it is easy to cross over into
an area that is inappropriate. Much of what has happened to restrict
our flying in the last three years in the US has been as a result of
stupid, unthinking actions on the part of governmental officials in
response to the events on Sept 11, 2001, so it is easy to somehow
connect the actions of the terrorists with the affect on our flying
even tho' there is no direct connection. This leads to people blaming
the terrorists for our problems when the immediate problem is
inappropriate reaction on the part of the government.
OK, so I know how we got here. How do we get away from it again and
focus on just those aspects of the political that are appropriate to
flight?
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Strangers on my flight |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Gus;
I also transferred your emachine website to my favorites list. Hang in
there, your posts are appreciated.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Strangers on my flight
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
>
> OK that's it. I post something about how to engineer parts for your
aircraft
> and it gets two comments. Some git posts a poem and it get, a large stream
> of comment, unsubscribing now.
>
> See ya
>
> Gus Fraser
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of YakL1@aol.com
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Strangers on my flight
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: YakL1@aol.com
>
> I'll go with Jim Jr. The post was something you had to go to on your
own.
> If it's not to your taste, your computer has a delete key. I find it
> neither
> xenophobic or racist. There were no Swedes, Norwegians, Germans or
others
> of European extraction among those who hijacked aircraft on 9/11...that's
> not
> racist, it's just a fact. And none that bombed the Towers in 1993, or
the
> USS Cole, or the Marine barracks in Beruit, or the American Embassies in
> Africa. And none that held US citizens hostage for over a year in Tehran
> in 1979.
> It is not xenophobic or racist to know your enemies.
>
> Somebody has a thin skin...I don't care what color it is or what's wrapped
> about the cephlad end.
>
> I think pilots would feel free to post here anything they think might be
of
> interest to their friends and associates. Nobody is making anybody read
> anything.
>
> John
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
How much weight is actually saved? Any idea what the 2 different
weights are?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Frank,
Don't know the total Amp draw of a Yak-52 or a CJ-6 but I can tell you
that I've been flying my M-14P CJ6 with the B&C 35 Amp Alternator for
over 4 years without a problem. 35 amps will do the job plenty for the
CJ electrical system, inverters and all. I believe B&C now makes a 50
amp model as well. Good product, good weight saver, excellent " firewall
extra space maker" and expensive somewhat.
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein
Subject: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakinators;
I'm wanting to install the B&C alternator and regulator. Looks to be a
big weight savings and with no commutator brushes to worry about looks
like it should last almost forever. Only problem is I'm not sure which
model to get. What is the max current draw with everything lit up and
running in the 52? Thanks in Advance Frank YAK-52 N9110M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Yak-List: politics and other meta-issues
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
There are a number of things that affect our flying and are therefore
reasonable fodder for discussion. There is no question that maintenance
and training issues are absolutely appropriate.
But there are valid political issues as well. When a government issues
regulations it affects our ability to fly. To my mind it seems
reasonable to discuss actions on the part of government employees and
officials that result in hardship or even safety-of-flight issues for
the pilot.
But once you get into the political realm it is easy to cross over into
an area that is inappropriate. Much of what has happened to restrict
our flying in the last three years in the US has been as a result of
stupid, unthinking actions on the part of governmental officials in
response to the events on Sept 11, 2001, so it is easy to somehow
connect the actions of the terrorists with the affect on our flying even
tho' there is no direct connection. This leads to people blaming the
terrorists for our problems when the immediate problem is inappropriate
reaction on the part of the government.
OK, so I know how we got here. How do we get away from it again and
focus on just those aspects of the political that are appropriate to
flight?
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 16
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| Subject: | Strangers on my flight |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Gus... don't even BEGIN to determine the worth of the information you post
by reply comments. The wheel that makes the most noise......... you know?
For example.... one post went immediately into my trash container..
yours.... on the other hand....went into:
1. My SAVE FOR LIFE mailbox.
2. My printer.
3. My Favorite Web Site list.
Thank you... for bringing this site to my attention!
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
p.s. I got only ONE reply (Hi Jay) from my post advising all owners.. or
future owners of B & C Permanant Magnet Alternators (PGA) to make sure they
also purchase the over-voltage (Crowbar) kit option and NOT to just run the
PGA and the regulator and nothing else. I am not worried about that at all!
Those that ignore that advice will some day learn it on their own. Those
that do not, won't have to! Bottom line... stick around. I sure as blazes
value ALL advice based on experience!
-----Original Message-----
From: Gus Fraser [mailto:fraseg@comcast.net]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Strangers on my flight
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
OK that's it. I post something about how to engineer parts for your aircraft
and it gets two comments. Some git posts a poem and it get, a large stream
of comment, unsubscribing now.
See ya
Gus Fraser
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of YakL1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Strangers on my flight
--> Yak-List message posted by: YakL1@aol.com
I'll go with Jim Jr. The post was something you had to go to on your own.
If it's not to your taste, your computer has a delete key. I find it
neither
xenophobic or racist. There were no Swedes, Norwegians, Germans or others
of European extraction among those who hijacked aircraft on 9/11...that's
not
racist, it's just a fact. And none that bombed the Towers in 1993, or the
USS Cole, or the Marine barracks in Beruit, or the American Embassies in
Africa. And none that held US citizens hostage for over a year in Tehran
in 1979.
It is not xenophobic or racist to know your enemies.
Somebody has a thin skin...I don't care what color it is or what's wrapped
about the cephlad end.
I think pilots would feel free to post here anything they think might be of
interest to their friends and associates. Nobody is making anybody read
anything.
John
Message 17
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| Subject: | Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Frank... you have the means of answering this question yourself with a
reasonable degree of accuracy.
The YAK-52 has a voltmeter AND an ammeter built in... or at least the models
I have flown do... I say that because there are slight variations from one
to another.
Anyway... look for the meter in your cockpit with the pushbutton on it. One
scale is in amps, the other scale is in volts. You PUSH the button in to
read voltage... and with nothing pushed it reads amps. Yes, I know... you
already knew it was there... sorry for the long explanation.
Simply turn everything on... EVERYTHING... with the engine not running.
Read the meter. That is your total current draw. Make sure you are also
transmitting on your radio when you do this. Or... turn things on one at a
time and read the meter and then add them all up. The only thing that might
be a tad tricky is the inverter. The motor on that puppy will draw about 5
times the run current when it first starts turning and you have to account
for that. So... read the current with just THAT on, and then multiply that
by 5 and use that figure for the alternator total calculations. I.E. Then
turn it off, then everything else on, and add the previous figure to what
you have now.
Bottom line.... 35 amps should be plenty... but if you start adding MOTORS
of any kind.. and they are large... you might run into a problem. Example:
A really BIG smoke pump.
And Frank... you're a nice guy... listen to me when I tell you... buy and
install the optional over-voltage kit from B & C if you install their
system.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Haertlein [mailto:yak52driver@earthlink.net]
Subject: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakinators;
I'm wanting to install the B&C alternator and regulator. Looks to be a
big weight savings and with no commutator brushes to worry about looks
like it should last almost forever. Only problem is I'm not sure which
model to get. What is the max current draw with everything lit up and
running in the 52?
Thanks in Advance
Frank
YAK-52
N9110M
Message 18
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| Subject: | Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
I can get that answer for you accurately in a few days if you really want it
Jorgen... as I have all the parts that were pulled out of two 52's when the
B & C system was put in. Keep in mind that you don't just pull the
generator out... you also pull the carbon pile control and the regulator box
out. You're replacing pounds with ounces. The whole regulator and
over-voltage kit weights in at about ... oh maybe one pound. The weight of
the B & C PGA itself is published, but my rough guess is that is might weigh
about 6-7 pounds... versus the original gen. which weighs about..... 20 lbs?
I'll get you accurate numbers.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Jorgen Nielsen [mailto:jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
How much weight is actually saved? Any idea what the 2 different
weights are?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Frank,
Don't know the total Amp draw of a Yak-52 or a CJ-6 but I can tell you
that I've been flying my M-14P CJ6 with the B&C 35 Amp Alternator for
over 4 years without a problem. 35 amps will do the job plenty for the
CJ electrical system, inverters and all. I believe B&C now makes a 50
amp model as well. Good product, good weight saver, excellent " firewall
extra space maker" and expensive somewhat.
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein
Subject: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakinators;
I'm wanting to install the B&C alternator and regulator. Looks to be a
big weight savings and with no commutator brushes to worry about looks
like it should last almost forever. Only problem is I'm not sure which
model to get. What is the max current draw with everything lit up and
running in the 52? Thanks in Advance Frank YAK-52 N9110M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Yak-List: politics and other meta-issues
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
There are a number of things that affect our flying and are therefore
reasonable fodder for discussion. There is no question that maintenance
and training issues are absolutely appropriate.
But there are valid political issues as well. When a government issues
regulations it affects our ability to fly. To my mind it seems
reasonable to discuss actions on the part of government employees and
officials that result in hardship or even safety-of-flight issues for
the pilot.
But once you get into the political realm it is easy to cross over into
an area that is inappropriate. Much of what has happened to restrict
our flying in the last three years in the US has been as a result of
stupid, unthinking actions on the part of governmental officials in
response to the events on Sept 11, 2001, so it is easy to somehow
connect the actions of the terrorists with the affect on our flying even
tho' there is no direct connection. This leads to people blaming the
terrorists for our problems when the immediate problem is inappropriate
reaction on the part of the government.
OK, so I know how we got here. How do we get away from it again and
focus on just those aspects of the political that are appropriate to
flight?
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Hi Mark
That would be good - I am looking to shift the cg back, rather by
removing weight up front than by adding at the rear - in the planning
stage for some time now is that, removing all the inverters etc. The
only weight to be added is lights for night flying & the tiny dynon to
replace the AI.
Would like to remove all redundant wiring as well as rear cockpit fail
switches, but too scared to attempt that!
Jorgen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bitterlich
GS11 Mark G
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
--> <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
I can get that answer for you accurately in a few days if you really
want it Jorgen... as I have all the parts that were pulled out of two
52's when the B & C system was put in. Keep in mind that you don't just
pull the generator out... you also pull the carbon pile control and the
regulator box out. You're replacing pounds with ounces. The whole
regulator and over-voltage kit weights in at about ... oh maybe one
pound. The weight of the B & C PGA itself is published, but my rough
guess is that is might weigh about 6-7 pounds... versus the original
gen. which weighs about..... 20 lbs? I'll get you accurate numbers.
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Jorgen Nielsen [mailto:jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
--> <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
How much weight is actually saved? Any idea what the 2 different
weights are?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Frank,
Don't know the total Amp draw of a Yak-52 or a CJ-6 but I can tell you
that I've been flying my M-14P CJ6 with the B&C 35 Amp Alternator for
over 4 years without a problem. 35 amps will do the job plenty for the
CJ electrical system, inverters and all. I believe B&C now makes a 50
amp model as well. Good product, good weight saver, excellent " firewall
extra space maker" and expensive somewhat.
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein
Subject: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakinators;
I'm wanting to install the B&C alternator and regulator. Looks to be a
big weight savings and with no commutator brushes to worry about looks
like it should last almost forever. Only problem is I'm not sure which
model to get. What is the max current draw with everything lit up and
running in the 52? Thanks in Advance Frank YAK-52 N9110M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Yak-List: politics and other meta-issues
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
There are a number of things that affect our flying and are therefore
reasonable fodder for discussion. There is no question that maintenance
and training issues are absolutely appropriate.
But there are valid political issues as well. When a government issues
regulations it affects our ability to fly. To my mind it seems
reasonable to discuss actions on the part of government employees and
officials that result in hardship or even safety-of-flight issues for
the pilot.
But once you get into the political realm it is easy to cross over into
an area that is inappropriate. Much of what has happened to restrict
our flying in the last three years in the US has been as a result of
stupid, unthinking actions on the part of governmental officials in
response to the events on Sept 11, 2001, so it is easy to somehow
connect the actions of the terrorists with the affect on our flying even
tho' there is no direct connection. This leads to people blaming the
terrorists for our problems when the immediate problem is inappropriate
reaction on the part of the government.
OK, so I know how we got here. How do we get away from it again and
focus on just those aspects of the political that are appropriate to
flight?
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 27, 2004, at 3:25 PM, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> The only thing that might
> be a tad tricky is the inverter. The motor on that puppy will draw
> about 5
> times the run current when it first starts turning and you have to
> account
> for that.
Actually, you don't need the alternator to cover the inverter's
start-up surge current since it is of such short duration. The battery
can provide the extra current needed to get the inverter turning. Your
alternator just needs to be rated at about 110% of the maximum *steady*
*state* load. Momentary start-up surges are carried by the battery.
> Bottom line.... 35 amps should be plenty... but if you start adding
> MOTORS
> of any kind.. and they are large... you might run into a problem.
> Example:
> A really BIG smoke pump.
I agree.
> And Frank... you're a nice guy... listen to me when I tell you... buy
> and
> install the optional over-voltage kit from B & C if you install their
> system.
Mark, I have been confused by your posts about OV protection since I
was pretty sure that the B&C LR3C-28 regulator has OV protection
built-in. I have checked and confirmed that the LR3C that is used with
the SK35 alternator for the M14P has overvoltage protection built-in.
It is their smaller permanent-magnet alternator (dynamo actually) that
does not have built-in OV protection.
From the installation manual for the LR3C:
OVER VOLTAGE WARNING - the 5 AMP alternator field breaker will open
causing alternator to be shut down. If sufficient loads are
operational, the LOW VOLTAGE warning light will begin to flash in a few
seconds. If electrical loads are very light, the LOW VOLTAGE light may
take longer before it starts flashing.
OVER VOLTAGE TEST - if you desire to verify that the over-voltage
protection is functional, momentarily touch a jumper wire between
terminal 2 and terminal 6. This will cause the field breaker to open
within 1 second. This test should be performed when you first install
the LR3 and repeated during your annual inspection.
So, yes, the B&C LR3C-28 regulator for the SK35 alternator has both OV
protection and a low-voltage annunciator. You do not need to add any
additional circuitry.
BTW, it also has battery temperature sensing so that it can
automatically vary the charging voltage to prevent overcharge in the
summer and undercharge in the winter. This will make your battery last
a lot longer.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 27, 2004, at 4:14 PM, Jorgen Nielsen wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
> <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> Hi Mark
>
> That would be good - I am looking to shift the cg back, rather by
> removing weight up front than by adding at the rear - in the planning
> stage for some time now is that, removing all the inverters etc. The
> only weight to be added is lights for night flying & the tiny dynon to
> replace the AI.
>
> Would like to remove all redundant wiring as well as rear cockpit fail
> switches, but too scared to attempt that!
In the case of the CJ, for me it was easier to just rip out all the
Chinese wiring and start over. The wire alone weighed 110 lbs
including the VR and noise filter. I didn't weigh all the Chinese
instruments. The B&C alternator system and the Blue Mountain EFIS-1
should make the whole airplane a lot lighter.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Richard, Frank, and others hunting for Yak 52 prop blades,
I have just confirmed the shipment of 2 sets(4 blades), all factory new,
will be here in 30 to 45 days.
Richard what are you asking for one of your many factory new hubs?
Please contact me off list.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein
Subject: Yak-List: Yak-52 Props
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Richard
GT Propellers makes new blades. You can find a link to their site at
http://home.earthlink.net/~yak52driver
Good Luck
Frank (Houndog) Haertlein
YAK-52
N9110M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Subject: Yak-List: Yak-52 Props
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Goode"
--> <richard.goode@russianaeros.com>
Yak-52 Props
Noting Mark Bitterlich's offer of a 2-blade prop hub, I am interested to
know where he might be able to find "new blades."
I can say that we have fourteen hubs, but no blades for them, and I am
sure this will become an increasing problem, since the hubs are durable,
but blades hit the ground; de-laminate etc!
Richard Goode
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Newport House
Almeley
Herefordshire
HR3 6LL
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 322200
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 322208
www.russianaeros.com
dangerous content by the http://www.anti84787.com
MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
==
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Message 23
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| Subject: | Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Hi Brian,
First and most importantly.... you are correct.... I immediately ASSUMED
SD-8 when I was actually reading SK-35 (big sigh.... it really sucks being
wrong when the whole world is watching).
1. The SK-35 using the LR3C-28 does have over-voltage protection and avoids
many of the pitfalls of B & C's "other" M-14 Alternator, the SD-8 model
using the PMR-1 voltage regulator. My appologies for not 100% accurately
specifying the difference between the two. That was a serious error on my
part which I thank you for correcting. My comments about making sure you
have the external over-voltage protection circuit apply ONLY to the SD-8
model B & C unit and not the SK-35 ... as you pointed out.
I also agree with you that the battery CAN take up start up current draw on
most any motor installed as long as it (the battery)is in good shape.
Personally though, I would never design an aircraft electrical power supply
system that was incapable of supplying TOTAL current draw... including motor
startups. This is even more significant if the B & C PMA, or "Dynamotor"
(SD-8) is used since it has no external control on Field Current. So... a
small disagreement there, but not important.
In the way of small mitigation (sometimes called a "whine") may I point out
that my total experience on Aerobatic aircraft using B & C systems has been
with the SD-8 since it is the most lightweight and is typically used on the
Suke 26,29, and 31 models where the owners are really trying to shed every
OUNCE.
Best Regards and Mea Culpa,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd [mailto:brianl@lloyd.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 27, 2004, at 3:25 PM, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> The only thing that might
> be a tad tricky is the inverter. The motor on that puppy will draw
> about 5
> times the run current when it first starts turning and you have to
> account
> for that.
Actually, you don't need the alternator to cover the inverter's
start-up surge current since it is of such short duration. The battery
can provide the extra current needed to get the inverter turning. Your
alternator just needs to be rated at about 110% of the maximum *steady*
*state* load. Momentary start-up surges are carried by the battery.
> Bottom line.... 35 amps should be plenty... but if you start adding
> MOTORS
> of any kind.. and they are large... you might run into a problem.
> Example:
> A really BIG smoke pump.
I agree.
> And Frank... you're a nice guy... listen to me when I tell you... buy
> and
> install the optional over-voltage kit from B & C if you install their
> system.
Mark, I have been confused by your posts about OV protection since I
was pretty sure that the B&C LR3C-28 regulator has OV protection
built-in. I have checked and confirmed that the LR3C that is used with
the SK35 alternator for the M14P has overvoltage protection built-in.
It is their smaller permanent-magnet alternator (dynamo actually) that
does not have built-in OV protection.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Aug 27, 2004, at 5:43 PM, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
> <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> First and most importantly.... you are correct.... I immediately
> ASSUMED
> SD-8 when I was actually reading SK-35 (big sigh.... it really sucks
> being
> wrong when the whole world is watching).
No worries. I make my own share of mistakes. Admitting it is hard but
people trust you more when they know you will "fess up" if you pull a
boner.
> 1. The SK-35 using the LR3C-28 does have over-voltage protection and
> avoids
> many of the pitfalls of B & C's "other" M-14 Alternator, the SD-8 model
> using the PMR-1 voltage regulator. My appologies for not 100%
> accurately
> specifying the difference between the two. That was a serious error
Well, not really all that serious.
> on my
> part which I thank you for correcting. My comments about making sure
> you
> have the external over-voltage protection circuit apply ONLY to the
> SD-8
> model B & C unit and not the SK-35 ... as you pointed out.
>
> I also agree with you that the battery CAN take up start up current
> draw on
> most any motor installed as long as it (the battery)is in good shape.
And if the battery cannot handle that, you need to replace it.
Alternators fail and the battery *must* be able to carry the load in
order to safely and successfully complete the flight.
> Personally though, I would never design an aircraft electrical power
> supply
> system that was incapable of supplying TOTAL current draw... including
> motor
> startups.
Well, I consider the alternator/battery combination to be the power
supply. Think of it like the hybrid electric cars they are building
now. The gasoline engine handles the steady-state loads and the
battery/motor combination provides the peak power for acceleration.
There is nothing wrong with this design approach as long as you know
what is expected from the system.
> This is even more significant if the B & C PMA, or "Dynamotor"
> (SD-8) is used since it has no external control on Field Current.
> So... a
> small disagreement there, but not important.
Actually a good combination is the SK35 on the generator pad and an
SD-8 on the vacuum pump pad. The SD-8 combined with its own smaller
battery provides backup power for the essential/endurance buss. You
attach only the flight-critical electrical stuff to the e-bus which is
powered by either alternator. Now an alternator failure becomes a mild
annoyance, not something to worry about. I consider this to be rather
important for anyone contemplating an all-electric glass IFR panel.
> In the way of small mitigation (sometimes called a "whine") may I
> point out
> that my total experience on Aerobatic aircraft using B & C systems has
> been
> with the SD-8 since it is the most lightweight and is typically used
> on the
> Suke 26,29, and 31 models where the owners are really trying to shed
> every
> OUNCE.
It is a great system and I have seen several acro aircraft using it.
It is simple and darned near bullet proof. Certainly the SD-8 dynamo
is about as simple as they come.
>
> Best Regards and Mea Culpa,
Don't beat yourself up. Your information is useful and on-the-mark.
Not everyone realizes how important OV protection is.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
Message 25
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0.04 LOTS_OF_STUFF BODY": Thousands.or.millions.of.pictures@matronics.com,
movies@matronics.com,
etc.0.87.UPPERCASE_50_75.message.body.is.50-75@uppercase
--> Yak-List message posted by: CHAD FELDPOUCH <1pouch@sbcglobal.net>
I AM SELLING MY 1985 YAK 52 . CONTACT ME FOR DETAILS AT 1pouch@sbcglobal.com
OR (618) 267-8035 PICTURES AND SPEC SHEET AVAILABLE .
Message 26
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| Subject: | Alternators for the 52 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Jorgen,
I calculated 25lb savings based the B&C 35amp unit and on the removal of the
CJ6 stock engine's (285 hp) generator, regulator, 'wave filter' etc.
Although it is a respectable weight reduction on the nose, it does not have
a substantial impact on the CG (CJ-6). It will however give you lots of
needed access room in the upper back end of the engine - this is
particularly nice if you firewall area is tight as in the Yak-52.
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
How much weight is actually saved? Any idea what the 2 different
weights are?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Sax
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Frank,
Don't know the total Amp draw of a Yak-52 or a CJ-6 but I can tell you
that I've been flying my M-14P CJ6 with the B&C 35 Amp Alternator for
over 4 years without a problem. 35 amps will do the job plenty for the
CJ electrical system, inverters and all. I believe B&C now makes a 50
amp model as well. Good product, good weight saver, excellent " firewall
extra space maker" and expensive somewhat.
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein
Subject: Yak-List: Alternators for the 52
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakinators;
I'm wanting to install the B&C alternator and regulator. Looks to be a
big weight savings and with no commutator brushes to worry about looks
like it should last almost forever. Only problem is I'm not sure which
model to get. What is the max current draw with everything lit up and
running in the 52? Thanks in Advance Frank YAK-52 N9110M
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Yak-List: politics and other meta-issues
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
There are a number of things that affect our flying and are therefore
reasonable fodder for discussion. There is no question that maintenance
and training issues are absolutely appropriate.
But there are valid political issues as well. When a government issues
regulations it affects our ability to fly. To my mind it seems
reasonable to discuss actions on the part of government employees and
officials that result in hardship or even safety-of-flight issues for
the pilot.
But once you get into the political realm it is easy to cross over into
an area that is inappropriate. Much of what has happened to restrict
our flying in the last three years in the US has been as a result of
stupid, unthinking actions on the part of governmental officials in
response to the events on Sept 11, 2001, so it is easy to somehow
connect the actions of the terrorists with the affect on our flying even
tho' there is no direct connection. This leads to people blaming the
terrorists for our problems when the immediate problem is inappropriate
reaction on the part of the government.
OK, so I know how we got here. How do we get away from it again and
focus on just those aspects of the political that are appropriate to
flight?
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
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