Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:47 AM - Re: stuff 4 sale. (Nico Goulet)
2. 04:07 AM - Re: Battery Set Up (Gerald Sweidan)
3. 06:20 AM - Re: stuff 4 sale. (cjpilot710@aol.com)
4. 09:09 AM - RPA Store (Drew Blahnick)
5. 12:22 PM - Re: Battery Set Up (Ron Davis)
6. 12:25 PM - Ray Reeves contact info (Jeff Linebaugh)
7. 12:34 PM - Re: Battery Set Up (Ron Davis)
8. 02:10 PM - New Yak 52 owner (TC Johnson)
9. 02:21 PM - SC fly-in (Barry Hancock)
10. 02:34 PM - Re: New Yak 52 owner (Terry Calloway)
11. 02:44 PM - Eastern Region (FamilyGage@aol.com)
12. 04:51 PM - Carb mod for M14P (Barry Hancock)
13. 05:14 PM - Re: Eastern Region (Daniel Fortin)
14. 05:45 PM - stuff 4 sale (cjpilot710@aol.com)
15. 06:34 PM - Fw: stuff 4 sale (cjpilot710@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Nico Goulet" <ngoulet@alum.mit.edu>
I would be interested in one of the Horizons (BDP-2).
Please advise if available.
All the best
Nico Goulet
Yak-52 EC-HYN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: stuff 4 sale.
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
I am redoing my cockpits.
So out goes the old stuff.
Now what is one man's -er (well not junk), is another man's treasure.
I have for sale.
One - Inverter
Two - 21/4" tachometer indicators.
Two - Horizons (BDP-2) 1 is good the other unknown.
One - TH-3 gyro. that the 'coffee can' behind the front seat.
One - Magnetometer. (that big blue sucker out in the wing).
Two - YRK-1 Magentic Direction indicators
One - Altimeter (meters of course)
Two - Manifold Pressure gages.
One - airspeed indicator. Km/h
One - ADF instrument gage
These parts have been in the airplane for the 9 nine years I've owned it.
I have put 1,100 hours personally on these items.
No guaranties of course.
Money back if it don't work.
You pay the shipping and a very small pittance.
Come one! Come all! "Honest Jim" will be happy to serve you.
Contact me off list. I guess that's the best way to do this.
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve
neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"The reason older men are like fine wine: when young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
"Kill them all. Let God sort them out"
Crusaders 900 AD
"With my shield, or on it."
Trojan Warriors, BC
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gerald Sweidan" <gerald.sweidan@sweidan.co.za>
If the FAA knew what you guys were smoking ... you would not even get to
taxi let alone fly anywhere!
Gerald
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Brogley
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Battery Set Up
--> Yak-List message posted by: Mike Brogley <mikebrogley@ieee.org>
Graham Chapman: Trouble at t'mill.
Carol Cleveland: Oh no - what kind of trouble?
Chapman: One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle.
Cleveland: Pardon?
Chapman: One on't cross beams gone owt askew on treddle.
Cleveland: I don't understand what you're saying.
Chapman: (slightly irritatedly and with exaggeratedly clear accent)
One of the cross beams has gone out askew on the treddle.
Cleveland: Well what on earth does that mean?
Chapman: *I* don't know - Mr Wentworth just told me to come in here
and say
that there was trouble at the mill, that's all - I didn't
expect a
kind of Spanish Inquisition.
(JARRING CHORD)
(The door flies open and Cardinal Ximinez of Spain (Palin) enters,
flanked by
two junior cardinals. Cardinal Biggles (Jones) has goggles pushed over
his
forehead. Cardinal Fang (Gilliam) is just Cardinal Fang)
Ximinez: NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is
suprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two
weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency....
Our
*three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless
efficiency...and an
almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no...
*Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such
elements as
fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
--
Mike
Ernie wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
>
>Ok I'll simplify it for you.
>
>You see this lil ole finigin pin needs to hold the left handed wind
shifter
>here just right, otherwise the knoozermombilizer gets all
disconfribulated.
>
>Ernie
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <cjpilot710@aol.com>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Battery Set Up
>
>
>
>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>>
>>
>>Well, u's guys on this list are way beyond me!!!!!!! Ohms, Kirchoff
law
>>(like in lawyer?) coulombic efficiency, Z vs R, differential applied
>>
>>
>voltages,
>
>
>>etc., etc.
>>
>>All this happens when I flip a freq'n switch?
>>
>>OR, am I see'n a "I'm smarter than you" todo? ;-)
>>
>>Come on guys, give an old fart a brake.
>>
>>Jim Goolsby
>>
>>"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety,
>>
>>
>deserve
>
>
>>neither liberty nor safety"
>>Benjamin Franklin 1759
>>
>>"The reason older men are like fine wine: when young, they are like
grapes
>>until some woman stomps all over them."
>>Unknown older man.
>>
>>"Kill them all. Let God sort them out"
>>Crusaders 900 AD
>>
>>"With my shield, or on it."
>>Trojan Warriors, BC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
==
==
==
==
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: stuff 4 sale. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 9/23/2004 4:48:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ngoulet@alum.mit.edu writes:
I would be interested in one of the Horizons (BDP-2).
Please advise if available.
All the best
Nico Goulet
Yak-52 EC-HYN
A mere $25.00
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve
neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"The reason older men are like fine wine: when young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
"Kill them all. Let God sort them out"
Crusaders 900 AD
"With my shield, or on it."
Trojan Warriors, BC
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Drew Blahnick" <drewblahnick@hotmail.com>
Folks,
If you ordered merchandise from the store, we have run in to a shipping
snag, and are working to fix the problem asap. Be patient as we work out
this unexpected bug, if there is any issue the RPA will fully refund any
order. Until this temporary issue is resolved, we will keep the store
closed.
Sorry for the inconvenience, I just checked with Deon and we have a record
of all the orders taken so far (about 20 of you). E-mail me off list as
required.
Drew
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Set Up |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
I guess I dozed off during the science part. I saw anecdotal evidence (one
guy's battery failed after two months and he had a center-tapped battery).
This proves the center-tap caused his battery failure much like my
neighbor's flat tire this morning was caused by him eating pizza last night:
Both happened, so one must have caused the other.
Your 80 amp boat load (why didn't you buy a 24 hydraulic pump from Surplus
Center in Lincoln, NE???) is no less convincing. It's like saying that
since 800 cups of coffee gives lab ratr cancer, one cup a day is certain to
a human therefore causes liver cancer too.
What does an equilizer do? It must either limit generator current (and I
fail to see how this helps) or it must equalize the load by putting a dummy
resistive load on the top battery. This will waste half of you energy-
unless you happen to need the heat there in the Carribean.
And for the record: batteries do have impedance-related issues, but the salt
air has rusted my can opener so I won't open that can of worms.
>From: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
>Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Battery Set Up
>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:11:36 -0400
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
>
>
>On Sep 22, 2004, at 4:11 PM, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
> >
> >
> > Well, u's guys on this list are way beyond me!!!!!!! Ohms, Kirchoff
> > law
> > (like in lawyer?) coulombic efficiency, Z vs R, differential applied
> > voltages,
> > etc., etc.
>
>Yeah, fun.
>
> > All this happens when I flip a freq'n switch?
>
>Uh huh.
>
> > OR, am I see'n a "I'm smarter than you" todo? ;-)
>
>Not so much. It is more of a, "and I *really* do know what I am
>talking about here," thing. There are a lot of opinions floating
>around and I want to make the point that this is not a matter of
>opinion but of clearly understood science.
>
>FYI:
>
>A coulomb is a bucket of electrons. Think of it as a gallon of
>electrons, OK? One amp is one coulomb per second. Amps are your "burn
>rate". A 30AH battery holds 108,000 coulombs (C). If a battery has
>100% coulombic efficiency then when you suck out 100C you need put back
>only 100C to recharge it. Most batteries are less efficient than that
>so when you suck out 95C you have to put back 100C to recharge them.
>
>In this 12V-center-tap discussion you look at where the current is
>going and you find that you pull more coulombs out of the bottom
>battery during discharge and put more into the top battery during
>recharge. Also, unlike a normal battery that stops accepting current
>when it is finally recharged the top battery is forced to keep
>accepting coulombs by virtue of the 12V load. It will very quickly
>overcharge and damage itself unless the 12V load is *really* small.
>
> >
> > Come on guys, give an old fart a brake.
>
>Aw Pappy, you can handle it.
>
>Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
>brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
>+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
>
>
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 6
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| Subject: | Ray Reeves contact info |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
Does anybody have contact info for Ray Reeves? My e-mails are getting
bounced back...
Ray, if you are out there....drop me your phone # or call me at 901 850-8776
Thanks...
Jeff Linebaugh
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Set Up |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
Did you destroy two new Gills at the same time, or destroy one, replace it,
and have another failure? I ask because I, and several people I know DO use
the center tap methiod. I am sure that I don't replace batteries every two
months and if the other guys are replacing them they haven't mentioned it.
>From: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
>Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Battery Set Up
>Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:02:53 -0500
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Griffin" <jgriffint28@cox.net>
>
>What you described is exactly what happened to my Chipmunk batteries. I
>insisted that my mechanic install a 24 -12 V convertor and the problem was
>solved. I had destroyed 2 new Gill batteries before I figured it out. Live
>and learn
>Jim Griffin
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl@lloyd.com>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Battery Set Up
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
> >
> > On Sep 22, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Ron Davis wrote:
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > > I can see how an 80 amp center-tap load would be a problem (on 24 AH
> > > batteries). If I had that big of a 12 volt load, I'd try to split it
> > > into
> > > two 40 amp loads like a 110/220 AC three wire system.(floating ground
> > > would
> > > be necessary).
> >
> > Well, I installed an 80A battery equalizer in my boat because I have a
> > worst-case 12V load of about 70A between the 150W HF transmitter, the
> > lighting, and the hydraulic pump for the autopilot steering, not things
> > you are likely to find in an aircraft. Also, my battery bank consists
> > of four 225AH gel-cells configured in series-parallel to provide 450AH
> > at 24V.
> >
> > You can get battery equalizers with much smaller capacities that 80A.
> > Surepower's model 52102 24V/12V battery equalizer is rated at 10A,
> > probably just about perfect for a CJ6A. Here is the link to their
> > converter/equalizer brochure: http://www.surepower.com/pdf/ebr_dcdc.pdf
> >
> > >
> > > On the other hand a VHF comm on a 3 amp breaker and a transponder on a
> > > 5 amp
> > > breaker (average combined load 1.7 amp) is unlikely to appreciably
> > > affect
> > > the life of your two 12 lead acid batteries.
> >
> > I disagree. I watched exactly that configuration destroy both
> > batteries in Dennis Nickson's CJ6A in less than 2 months. If you doubt
> > me contact him. He reads this list but is out of town for a week or so
> > otherwise he would probably respond directly to the list.
> >
> > Even a very small load on the 12V center tap will cause significant
> > overcharging of the top battery. With vented batteries you can get
> > away with it for a little while as long as you make a point of keeping
> > the top battery topped up with water and swap the batteries reasonably
> > often. If you try to do this with sealed batteries they will die a
> > quick death. They are dependent on the liberated O2 and H2 recombining
> > at the opposite plate and if you produce O2 and H2 too quickly, it just
> > escapes into the case, generating pressure without recombining.
> > Eventually the overpressure valve opens and vents the O2 and H2 to
> > atmosphere. The battery dries up and loses capacity after that.
> >
> >
> > Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> > brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> > +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
> >
> >
>
>
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 8
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| Subject: | New Yak 52 owner |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "TC Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
Please welcome Jay Hodge and his wife Sherry as new aircraft owners (first time
owners).
Jay purchased my Yellow Yak 52 and flies home next week to Ohio.
Jay came out to Phoenix and spent several days with Bill Blackwell doing a fresh
annual.
By doing the annual himself with Bills help he learned first hand the care and
feeding of a Yak from one of the experts.
Many people have inquired what is next for me, and the answer is .... Yak 50.
I'll have my Yk50 home to Phoenix next week.
Fly safe ( .. PLEASE! . . :)
**********************************
Thomas Johnson
Cannon Aviation Insurance
Ass't Vice President
Tel: 800-851-2997
Fax: 480-951-1455
Cell: 602-628-2701
E: tjohnson@cannonaviation.com
CHECK OUT:
http://www.warbirddirectory.org/
http://www.warbirddigest.com/
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
Well,
Seems I get to write the report on the fun had by all at Lamar, CO last
week....
Great event, especially for a first timer. Congrats to Scott McMillan
and Big Al Tinnes for putting on a fun, safe, and all around enjoyable
event.
We had 11 airplanes most of the time. 4 CJ's, 5 -52's, and 3 -50's.
The aerobatic box right over the field was often occupied, the flour
bombs were dropped with regularity, the flying was frequent, and the
weather was on the warm side but enjoyable most of the time. The
afternoon winds on Saturday kept us on the ground, but we got our
morning 10 ship over town in. A nice compliment was paid by JJ, a USAF
F-117 instructor and Yak-50 owner..."I tell you what, for not flying
professionally every day like I do, you guys did a really nice job.
I'm impressed." This is a testament to the standardized training and
the FAST program in general.
Perhaps the single biggest highlight of the trip was at the beginning
and end of the day in the "crew car." Ever seen those old 8 door
Checker cabs? Well this one was painted old Denver Bronco colors and
required old dirt track driving skills to manipulate down the road.
Bob "Kilo" Watts was having such a blast driving he simply would not
relinquish the controls. I think he liked all the funny looks we
got...11 guys in flight suits, plus 3 SO's crammed into this thing
rumbling down Main Street must have been quite a site! I think Kilo
started having second thoughts about driving when on our approach to
the airport we took incoming flour bombs from a low flying Yak-50. One
of 'em landed right in the middle of the road about 10 feet in front of
us!
The real bombing contest was quite entertaining...more bombs fell
closer to the range officer than the tank! Yes, we had a real live
tank out there as a target...might has well been a battleship with us
fighter pilots - keeping the ordinance in the same county was a feat
for us! Closest to the target was 62 feet...closest to the range
officer was 31 feet! Hey, Al, did we tell you we had a bet on which
one of us would make you dive for cover? :)
More guys are taking an interest in Advanced Tactical training, too.
Looks like we're shaping up to have a bi-annual "Red Flag" type event
in say...Wendover, NV.
Lamar, CO may be an out of the way place, but Al and his crew were
great with maintenance issues, carburetor mods (WOW! What a
difference!), and any thing else we needed! It was a great time and I
hope that many will put it on the calendar for next year....
Until next time, keep your paint to yourself!
Barry
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New Yak 52 owner |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
Congratulations. If you need to stop over next week contact me off
line.
OR
Stop over at Skyfest Tennessee at Jackson Tennessee for your first
event.
TC
>>> tjohnson@cannonaviation.com 9/23/2004 4:06:57 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "TC Johnson"
<tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
Please welcome Jay Hodge and his wife Sherry as new aircraft owners
(first time owners).
Jay purchased my Yellow Yak 52 and flies home next week to Ohio.
Jay came out to Phoenix and spent several days with Bill Blackwell
doing a fresh annual.
By doing the annual himself with Bills help he learned first hand the
care and feeding of a Yak from one of the experts.
Many people have inquired what is next for me, and the answer is ....
Yak 50.
I'll have my Yk50 home to Phoenix next week.
Fly safe ( .. PLEASE! . . :)
**********************************
Thomas Johnson
Cannon Aviation Insurance
Ass't Vice President
Tel: 800-851-2997
Fax: 480-951-1455
Cell: 602-628-2701
E: tjohnson@cannonaviation.com
CHECK OUT:
http://www.warbirddirectory.org/
http://www.warbirddigest.com/
Message 11
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--> Yak-List message posted by: FamilyGage@aol.com
Hi Guys,
Need hotel and other information on the Fly-In at Georgetown, DL on Oct.
14-17th. Would appreciate either off line or on line response so that we can
make plans.
Wolfman
Message 12
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| Subject: | Carb mod for M14P |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
Gang,
I've already received a few inquiries about the carb mod I mentioned in
the Lamar post. It is pretty simple...
Those that fly the M14P know that it tends to load up at low power
settings (idle) and the hesitation that results can be quite a heart
stopper when you need a little pop of the throttle on short final!
Well, bottom line is this little carb mod puts an end to all that.
Essentially what it does is plug the accelerator jet that is
responsible for the over-rich mixture at idle. Great in Siberia, not
so good when it's 90F plus...
After hearing all the other guys rave about it that had it in their
airplanes, I decided I'd give it a go. It's like flying a new
airplane. The hesitation is GONE!
For an example of how to do this, visit Kimball Enterprises site at
http://www.pittsmodel12.com/# and click on the M14P Carb Modification
link to download a PDF with pictures.
It takes a grand total of about 15 minutes to make the change.
A word of caution, this may not be for everyone, particularly those
operating in very cold climates. That being said the guys in Denver
have all done it and I think they get a few cold days a year...
I, like the Kimballs, am in no way endorsing this modification for
anyone else. I'm just sharing my experience...YMMV.
Happy (hesitation free!) flying,
Barry
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
Wolfman,
Sean, Adrian and the boys were racing the Yak-9 in Reno last week-end, they
will publish the hotel info soon.
Dan
>From: FamilyGage@aol.com
>Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Yak-List: Eastern Region
>Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 17:41:43 EDT
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: FamilyGage@aol.com
>
>Hi Guys,
>Need hotel and other information on the Fly-In at Georgetown, DL on Oct.
>14-17th. Would appreciate either off line or on line response so that we
>can
>make plans.
>
>Wolfman
>
>
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Yeeek! Folks I think I had a fire sale and didn't know it!
All I have left is:
One tachometer (2 1/4") $10.
One altimeter (meters only) $10.
One manifold pressure gage $10.
One ADF gage $5.0
Two YRK-1 Magnetic Direction indicators. $15.
I was blown away with e-mail messages. I'm putting up the prices simply
because so many people were 'shopping' and I was having difficulty keeping people
sorted out. Its obvious I would not make retailer or whole sale'r or - - - - .
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve
neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"The reason older men are like fine wine: when young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
"Kill them all. Let God sort them out"
Crusaders 900 AD
"With my shield, or on it."
Trojan Warriors, BC
Message 15
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| Subject: | Fwd: stuff 4 sale |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 9/23/2004 8:42:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cjpilot710
writes:
All I have left is:
One ADF gage $5.0
Two YRK-1 Magnetic Direction indicators. $15. each.
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve
neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"The reason older men are like fine wine: when young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
"Kill them all. Let God sort them out"
Crusaders 900 AD
"With my shield, or on it."
Trojan Warriors, BC
From: cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: stuff 4 sale
-------------------------------1095986527
Yeeek! Folks I think I had a fire sale and didn't know it!
All I have left is:
One tachometer (2 1/4") $10.
One altimeter (meters only) $10.
One manifold pressure gage $10.
One ADF gage $5.0
Two YRK-1 Magnetic Direction indicators. $15.
I was blown away with e-mail messages. I'm putting up the prices simply
because so many people were 'shopping' and I was having difficulty keeping people
sorted out. Its obvious I would not make retailer or whole sale'r or - - - - .
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve
neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"The reason older men are like fine wine: when young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
"Kill them all. Let God sort them out"
Crusaders 900 AD
"With my shield, or on it."
Trojan Warriors, BC
-------------------------------1095986527
<META content"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" nameGENERATOR>
Yeeek! Folks I think I had a fire sale and didn't know it!
All I have left is:
One tachometer (2 1/4") $10.
One altimeter (meters only) $10.
One manifold pressure gage $10.
One ADF gage $5.0
Two YRK-1 Magnetic Direction indicators. $15.
I was blown away with e-mail messages. I'm putting up the prices=20simply because
so many people were 'shopping' and I was having difficulty keeping people sorted
out. Its obvious I would not make retailer or whole sale'r or - - - - .
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve neither
liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"The reason older men are like fine wine: when young, they are like grapes until
some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
"Kill them all. Let God sort them out"
Crusaders 900 AD
"With my shield, or on it."
Trojan Warriors, BC
-------------------------------1095986527--
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