Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:24 AM - On group interaction (Brian Lloyd)
2. 06:49 AM - The end.. (Tim Gagnon)
3. 10:04 AM - Re: Craig Payne's next speed mod. (Doug Sapp)
4. 01:26 PM - Radial Rocket (Tim Gagnon)
5. 02:09 PM - Re: The end.. (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
6. 03:09 PM - To much gas (Lou Dakos)
7. 03:12 PM - Re: Radial Rocket (Bill VonDane)
8. 03:55 PM - Re: [SPAM] - To much gas - Email found in subject (Jay Land)
9. 04:46 PM - Re: [SPAM] - To much gas - Email found in subject (cjpilot710@aol.com)
10. 04:59 PM - Email & Misc. (cpayne1@joimail.com)
11. 05:16 PM - Re: [SPAM] - To much gas - Email found in subject (Jay Land)
12. 05:30 PM - Re: On group interaction (Walt Lannon)
13. 05:58 PM - Re: On group interaction (Terry Calloway)
14. 06:52 PM - To much gas (Frank Stelwagon)
15. 07:06 PM - Re: To much gas (Walt Lannon)
16. 08:46 PM - Re: On group interaction (Walt Lannon)
17. 09:09 PM - I want my freedom (Frank Haertlein)
18. 09:20 PM - Re: I want my freedom (JGibson912@aol.com)
19. 09:28 PM - Re: On group interaction (Brian Lloyd)
20. 09:42 PM - Re: On group interaction (Brian Lloyd)
21. 10:45 PM - Re: I want my freedom (Brian Lloyd)
22. 10:58 PM - Re: The end.. (Brian Lloyd)
23. 11:54 PM - Re: I want... (Ron Davis)
24. 11:54 PM - Re: I want my freedom (Ron Davis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | On group interaction |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
This is a meta issue. It is orthogonal to the discussion of Yaks but
relevant to the discussion of how large lists of people interact. It
is good and informative reading on the social and technical dynamics of
groups like ours. Perhaps understanding a bit will help us to interact
in a more creative manner.
http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 2
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Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:45:10 -0400
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Folks,
We are engaged in a fight like no other...and one that may not be winnable. Wars
based on hate will never be won. They have been fought for hundreds of years
and are still being fought. They have taken millions of lives and for very little
gain. 90% of all WWII vets that I have spoken to did not hate their adversary,
they respected them and in some extraordinary cases, helped them. I am of
the opinion that if we sink to the levels of branding an entire group of people
for the acts of a very small percentage, we have lost and we actually become
them. Those that pervert the religion of Islam are nothing more than criminals
not only in our eyes, but also in the eyes of the majority of their "fellow"
peaceful Muslims. Having said that, I do wish the majority would raise their
voices and let the world know that this is not Islam. This country is made up
of many different cultures but one idea, that freedom is our most precious commodity.
Our fight for (aviation) freedoms is not with the man next door that
prays on a mat. It is with the men who wear business suits and work in the white
buildings in DC. The same men that we put there in the first place. Pick
your battles and this one I am finished with.
Maybe a mass general aviation fly'in to the DC area and an open invite to the politicians
to come out would be in order. Maybe they will see us as business men,
owners of companies, blue and white collars workers, CEO's, Doctors, lawyers,
police officers, airline pilots and in my case, a member of the Armed Forces.
Brian, that was classic and I trust we will see more from you...
I thought YOU guys would enjoy that more than my wife did.
Regards,
Tim Gagnon (of Canadian descent)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Craig Payne's next speed mod. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Craig Payne,
What's up with you email address? See below.
This is the Amerion cluster node 14 program at host smtp-mc.amerion.net.
I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.
For further assistance, please send mail to
If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.
The Amerion cluster node 14 program
<"cpayne1@joimail.com <cpayne1"@smtp-mc.amerion.net>: bad address syntax:
"cpayne1@joimail.com <cpayne1@smtp-mc.amerion.net"
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Sapp
Subject: Yak-List: Craig Payne's next speed mod.
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=249480174
7&category=26437
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
Message 4
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Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:22:22 -0400
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Guys,
Look at this little bugger!
http://radialrocket.com/<http://radialrocket.com/>
Pretty cool but only stressed to +6?
Tim
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Tim,
I did not like your posting.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Gagnon [mailto:NiftyYak50@msn.com]
Subject: Yak-List: The end..
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Folks,
We are engaged in a fight like no other...and one that may not be winnable.
Wars based on hate will never be won. They have been fought for hundreds of
years and are still being fought. They have taken millions of lives and for
very little gain. 90% of all WWII vets that I have spoken to did not hate
their adversary, they respected them and in some extraordinary cases, helped
them. I am of the opinion that if we sink to the levels of branding an
entire group of people for the acts of a very small percentage, we have lost
and we actually become them. Those that pervert the religion of Islam are
nothing more than criminals not only in our eyes, but also in the eyes of
the majority of their "fellow" peaceful Muslims. Having said that, I do wish
the majority would raise their voices and let the world know that this is
not Islam. This country is made up of many different cultures but one idea,
that freedom is our most precious commodity. Our fight for (aviation)
freedoms is not w!
ith the man next door that prays on a mat. It is with the men who wear
business suits and work in the white buildings in DC. The same men that we
put there in the first place. Pick your battles and this one I am finished
with.
Maybe a mass general aviation fly'in to the DC area and an open invite to
the politicians to come out would be in order. Maybe they will see us as
business men, owners of companies, blue and white collars workers, CEO's,
Doctors, lawyers, police officers, airline pilots and in my case, a member
of the Armed Forces.
Brian, that was classic and I trust we will see more from you...
I thought YOU guys would enjoy that more than my wife did.
Regards,
Tim Gagnon (of Canadian descent)
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <ldakos@bigpond.net.au>
Learned men
My Cj emergency air system is getting replenished by the compressor as I fly, gets
up to +60 atm and it dosn't leak down so I bleed the excess off, I will be
looking at the problem today (before I blow the arse of it and me) any Ideas?
Lou
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Radial Rocket |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
Same specs as an RV-8... Almost the same size too...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Radial Rocket
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Guys,
Look at this little bugger!
http://radialrocket.com/<http://radialrocket.com/>
Pretty cool but only stressed to +6?
Tim
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: To much gas - Email found in subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com>
I too get 45 in the main and 65 in the emergency system and can't seem to
find the problem.... Starting to think its a gauge problem.
> From: "Lou Dakos" <ldakos@bigpond.net.au>
> Reply-To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 08:06:35 +1000
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: [SPAM] - Yak-List: To much gas - Email found in subject
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <ldakos@bigpond.net.au>
>
> Learned men
>
> My Cj emergency air system is getting replenished by the compressor as I fly,
> gets up to +60 atm and it dosn't leak down so I bleed the excess off, I will
> be looking at the problem today (before I blow the arse of it and me) any
> Ideas?
>
>
> Lou
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: To much gas - Email found in subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
The gages need to be calibrated is all. The way the CJ's air system works
is; whatever pressure is in the main system is the same in the emergency tank.
The only thing that keeps the pressure in the emergency tank is a check valve
and the emergency valve. If you know your main air gage is right on, than
that will be the pressure in your emergency tank.
Jim Goolsby
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve
neither liberty nor safety"
Benjamin Franklin 1759
"The reason older men are like fine wine: when young, they are like grapes
until some woman stomps all over them."
Unknown older man.
"Kill them all. Let God sort them out"
Crusaders 900 AD
"With my shield, or on it."
Trojan Warriors, BC
Message 10
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne1@joimail.com" <cpayne1@matronics.com>
Doug,
access w/email. That does not mean without screwups though.
My email server is on the blink at least once every 2-3
days. They are adding thousands of new users but not keeping
up with equipment.
Radial Rocket: I had a chance to chat with the RR rep while
at OSH. He says that the production version will have
retract gear but performance may not improve!! Something
about more weight vs less drag... For my money ($40K+for
airframe kit) I would expect a lot more performance if
cooling drag can be minimized.
The Reno Sport Class leaders, Lancair Legacy & Thunder
Mustang, each required over 600hp to reach 350+ mph. The
best Harmon Rocket/F1's were 270 - 290 MPH without nitros
but with twin turbos. 310+ for Glasairs with IO-580 or
IO-600. Sooo,I would expect a 400HP M-14PF powered Glass
Wonder to do no better, probably closer to 250-270 range.
Craig Payne
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: To much gas - Email found in subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com>
Thanks Jim- Thats what I figured, but someone suggested it was possible to
get differential pressure by some problem with the check valves. I couldn't
find anything wrong with mine, however. Do you know of a convenient place
to tap in to use a "known" gauge?
Jay
> From: cjpilot710@aol.com
> Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:42:47 EDT
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Yak-List: To much gas - Email found in subject
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> The gages need to be calibrated is all. The way the CJ's air system works
> is; whatever pressure is in the main system is the same in the emergency tank.
> The only thing that keeps the pressure in the emergency tank is a check valve
> and the emergency valve. If you know your main air gage is right on, than
> that will be the pressure in your emergency tank.
>
> Jim Goolsby
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little safety, deserve
> neither liberty nor safety"
> Benjamin Franklin 1759
>
> "The reason older men are like fine wine: when young, they are like grapes
> until some woman stomps all over them."
> Unknown older man.
>
> "Kill them all. Let God sort them out"
> Crusaders 900 AD
>
> "With my shield, or on it."
> Trojan Warriors, BC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: On group interaction |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Brian;
Sounds like an interesting subject but every time I access it I get
superimposed pages. Impossible to read.
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl@lloyd.com>
Subject: Yak-List: On group interaction
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
>
> This is a meta issue. It is orthogonal to the discussion of Yaks but
> relevant to the discussion of how large lists of people interact. It
> is good and informative reading on the social and technical dynamics of
> groups like ours. Perhaps understanding a bit will help us to interact
> in a more creative manner.
>
> http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html
>
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
> citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: On group interaction |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
Brian can be impossible to understand some times.
tc
>>> wlannon@cablerocket.com 10/19/2004 7:26:51 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon"
<wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Brian;
Sounds like an interesting subject but every time I access it I get
superimposed pages. Impossible to read.
Walt
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
remove the gauge, unscrew the adapter on the back of the gauge and check to see
if the small orifice and or the adapter is full of rust and crud. Clean it out
reinstall the adapter and put the gauge back in. That fixed my problem with
different pressures>
Frank
CJ6-A N23021
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Hi Lou;
Theoretically both systems charge equally but in reality the retained
pressure is lower in the main system due to a much higher potential for
leakage. Even with a leak free system ( have not seen one yet) the use of
brakes and flap retraction prior to shutdown will ensure the retained main
pressure is lower.
Assuming that your main press. gauge is OK the most likely cause of your
problem is excessive leakage somewhere in the main operating system. Since I
presume you see this discrepancy in flight the leak could be in the gear (or
flap) UP circuit.
If you have such a leak and have adjusted the relief valve up to increase
the main press. the emerg. will also increase but will be retained.
However, we can't assume the gauges are OK. If you have a high press. air
supply you should check them against a known gauge or against each other.
They should go to zero when all pressure removed. These gauges have a
removable restrictor with a .010" (approx.) hole - very small! This can
easily get plugged, giving some goofy readings. Make sure this hole is open.
I like to adjust the relief valve a little at a time over a few flights (
after initial ground adjustment to 40 ATM) using 50 ATM as a target on the
EMERG. gauge. With a relatively tight system this should result in about 45
ATM in the main.
Cheers;
Walt
---- Original Message -----
From: "Lou Dakos" <ldakos@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Yak-List: To much gas
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <ldakos@bigpond.net.au>
>
> Learned men
>
> My Cj emergency air system is getting replenished by the compressor as I
fly, gets up to +60 atm and it dosn't leak down so I bleed the excess off, I
will be looking at the problem today (before I blow the arse of it and me)
any Ideas?
>
>
> Lou
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: On group interaction |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
That's true Terry, Brian is the only guy that forces me to the dictionary on
occasion - probably good for me! E.g. " orthogonal to the discussion of
Yaks" - thanks Brian.
However this is something else. I just pulled it up again and found the same
problem but scrolling through the article I find the superimposed pages
disappear at about the 75% mark. Go figure!
Yes Doug - even with my wife's glasses.
Cheers;
Walt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: On group interaction
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway"
<tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
>
> Brian can be impossible to understand some times.
> tc
>
> >>> wlannon@cablerocket.com 10/19/2004 7:26:51 PM >>>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon"
> <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> Brian;
> Sounds like an interesting subject but every time I access it I get
> superimposed pages. Impossible to read.
>
> Walt
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | I want my freedom |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Bryan, Yakkers;
I hate to do this but I love my freedom and my flying so I'm going to
say what I think despite the consequences.
I really enjoy my YAK-52. It's the first plane I've ever owned and you
know what they say "there's a special place in the heart for the first
airplane you've ever owned".
To my way of thinking, flying is one of the great freedoms that we have
the pleasure to enjoy. Life would be less if we didn't have that
ability. Yet like many other things in life there are those all too
eager to take those freedoms. Those same people have no vested interest
in exercising those freedoms so they say "well, it don't affect me so
who gives a damn". I fight that attitude almost every day of my
existence. What is most painful to realize is that most people have a
good heart, they want the best for all people and I share those
sentiments. But they don't seem to realize how our varied and precious
freedoms encompass most aspects of our lives and therefore don't really
care or understand how that attitude allows our freedoms to be taken
away. Unless a law affects them first hand they could care less.
One of the things that can take our freedoms away quicker than most
anything is a perceived threat to our safety. Weather that threat is
real or imagined doesn't make much difference. If people feel safer
because of some law they are likely to accept it and just go on with
their lives. They give little, if any, thought to how those laws affect
our freedoms. Take the political pandering by that New York politician
as an example. Do you really think he gives a rats ass about your
freedoms?
We, as Americans, are very sensitive to the issue of immigration,
nationality and race. That is as it should be. After all, it is part of
our modern heritage to respect differences within various peoples. The
founding fathers of this country fled Europe to escape religious
persecution at the hands of those who thought their way was the right
way and thus would accept no other philosophy. We see that attitude with
some Christians in America even today (I'm a Christian, by-the-way, but
I'm not so arrogant as to not accept other people's beliefs). Many, many
muslims are the same way. They have a hard time accepting the
differences of other peoples. As the koran teaches them, other peoples,
unbelievers in islam are heretics, infidels and not worthy of life.
Accept the crowns of heaven and the 72 virgins if you die in the act of
killing infidels, the koran says. To tell a muslim that the koran is
wrong is the same as telling a preacher that God does not exist.....it
ain't never going to happen!
Salmon Rushdie wrote the book "The Satanic Verses". Most people don't
understand that he was referring to passages in the koran that call for
the death of non-believers of islam. In revealing the truth about islam,
Salmon Rushdie was given a death sentence by the imams and the
ayatollas. Unless you're a complete idiot, you would understand that
islam is a barbaric cult, a vestige of the past that a modern society
would be better off without. Personally, I can accept other religions.
Yet I can accept other religions ONLY if those religions are
non-violent. Religions in this country that have violent tendencies are
usually labeled a cult. Consider Jim Jones or David Koresh if you doubt
it.
It has become apparent that allowing the immigration of third world
peoples into this country has caused us to suffer their third world
problems. 911 anyone? Does anyone really think that these muslim
immigrants don't bring their problems with them? Do you really think the
American ideal of acceptance can erase 2000 years of religious hate,
killing and wars? If you wonder about that question then just ask
yourself if you could ever convince your local preacher that God does
not exist. I highly doubt you could and that is the same as telling a
muslim to accept other peoples of the world. As long as the poisonous
words of the koran exist you will have to deal with radical muslims. The
words of the koran will forever breed radical muslims........just as the
words of the bible will forever breed Christians. Do you really want
that in this country? If so then you better come to accept a significant
loss of your freedoms as that is the only way you are going to be able
to protect yourself. Don't believe it? Please consider the Patriot Act
as your first clue, Mr. Politically correct Bryan Lloyd.
We have to temper our good will with the realities of the world and that
means we should try and avoid the immigration of peoples and belief
systems with violent tendencies.
The vast majority of muslims are peaceful and benign, right Mr. Lloyd?
Then what do you say about a religion that breeds countless suicide
bombers? Do you have any doubt they would not set off nuclear bombs in
US cities if that had the ability? Are you willing to take that chance
and allow their unchecked immigration? Do you think that maybe, just
maybe some ideologies are incompatible with freedom as we have come to
know it?
As to the mind set of the islamic countries and their contempt for
democracy and acceptance of other peoples please consider the following
article...........................
From the LA Times if you can believe it!
Terrorism's Silent Partner at the U.N.
By Joshua Muravchik, Joshua Muravchik, a resident scholar at the
American Enterprise Institute, is working on a study of the United
Nations that will be published by the AEI Press early next year.
This month, the United Nations Security Council voted to condemn
terrorism. The resolution was introduced by Russia, still grieving over
the terrorist attack on a school in Beslan, and perhaps the unanimous
vote will give it a measure of solace.
But the convoluted text and the dealings behind the scenes that were
necessary to secure agreement on it offer cold comfort to anyone who
cares about winning the war against terrorism. For what they reveal is
that even after Beslan and after Madrid and after 9/11, the U.N. still
cannot bring itself to oppose terrorism unequivocally.
The reason for this failure is that the Organization of the Islamic
Conference, which comprises 56 of the U.N.'s 191 members, defends
terrorism as a right.
After the Security Council vote, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations
John C. Danforth tried to put the best face on the resolution. He said
it "states very simply that the deliberate massacre of innocents is
never justifiable in any cause. Never."
But in fact it does not state this. Nor has any U.N. resolution ever
stated it. The U.S. delegation tried to get such language into the
resolution, but it was rebuffed by Algeria and Pakistan, the two OIC
members currently sitting on the Security Council. (They have no veto,
but the resolution's sponsors were willing to water down the text in
return for a unanimous vote.)
True, the final resolution condemns "all acts of terrorism irrespective
of their motivation." This sounds clear, but in the Alice-in-Wonderland
lexicon of the U.N., the term "acts of terrorism" does not mean what it
seems.
For eight years now, a U.N. committee has labored to draft a
"comprehensive convention on international terrorism." It has been
stalled since Day 1 on the issue of "defining" terrorism. But what is
the mystery? At bottom everyone understands what terrorism is: the
deliberate targeting of civilians. The Islamic Conference, however, has
insisted that terrorism must be defined not by the nature of the act but
by its purpose. In this view, any act done in the cause of "national
liberation," no matter how bestial or how random or defenseless the
victims, cannot be considered terrorism.
This boils down to saying that terrorism on behalf of bad causes is bad,
but terrorism on behalf of good causes is good. Obviously, anyone who
takes such a position is not against terrorism at all - but only against
bad causes.
The U.S. is not alone in failing to get the Islamic states to reconsider
their pro-terror stance. Following 9/11, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi
Annan pushed to break the deadlock on the terrorism convention. He
endorsed compromise language proscribing terrorism unambiguously while
reaffirming the right of self-determination. But the Islamic Conference
would not budge.
Far from giving ground on terrorism, the Islamic states have often
gotten their way on the issue, with others giving in to them. As early
as 1970, for instance, the U.N. General Assembly adopted a resolution
"reaffirm[ing] . the legitimacy of the struggle of the colonial peoples
and peoples under alien domination to exercise their right to
self-determination and independence by all the necessary means at their
disposal."
Everyone understood that this final phrase was code for terrorism.
Similar formulas have been adopted repeatedly in the years since.
Originally, the Western European states joined the U.S. in voting
against such motions. But in each of the last few years the U.N.
Commission on Human Rights has adopted such a resolution with regard to
the Palestinian struggle against Israel, with almost all the European
members voting in favor.
Danforth may feel that the U.S. position was vindicated in the new
Security Council resolution, but that is not what OIC representatives
think. As Pakistan's envoy to the U.N., Munir Akram, put it: "We ought
not, in our desire to confront terrorism, erode the principle of the
legitimacy of national resistance that we have upheld for 50 years."
Accordingly, he expressed satisfaction with the resolution: "It doesn't
open any new doors."
Who is right? Hours of parsing the resolution won't resolve that
question. But in the end it does not matter. As long as the Islamic
states resist any blanket condemnation of terrorism, we will remain a
long way from ridding the Earth of its scourge. And the U.N., in which
they account for nearly one-third of the votes, will be helpless to
bring us any closer.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: I want my freedom |
--> Yak-List message posted by: JGibson912@aol.com
dido!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! from a
yak,trojan and buckeye driver
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: On group interaction |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 19, 2004, at 10:27 PM, Walt Lannon wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> That's true Terry, Brian is the only guy that forces me to the
> dictionary on
> occasion - probably good for me! E.g. " orthogonal to the discussion of
> Yaks" - thanks Brian.
Sorry. The term is mathematical (meaning "at right angles to") but is
used in geek/nerd circles to denote a conversation that is related by
organization but not specific to the topic under discussion.
> However this is something else. I just pulled it up again and found
> the same
> problem but scrolling through the article I find the superimposed pages
> disappear at about the 75% mark. Go figure!
> Yes Doug - even with my wife's glasses.
This sounds like a browser problem as the content is just text, nothing
fancy. I tried it using three different browsers, Safari, Mozilla, and
Internet Explorer, and all displayed the article properly. OTOH, I am
using a Macintosh so things tend to work better anyway. ;-)
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: On group interaction |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 19, 2004, at 10:27 PM, Walt Lannon wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walt Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> That's true Terry, Brian is the only guy that forces me to the
> dictionary on
> occasion - probably good for me! E.g. " orthogonal to the discussion of
> Yaks" - thanks Brian.
Sorry. The term is mathematical (meaning "at right angles to") but is
used in geek/nerd circles to denote a conversation that is related by
organization but not specific to the topic under discussion.
> However this is something else. I just pulled it up again and found
> the same
> problem but scrolling through the article I find the superimposed pages
> disappear at about the 75% mark. Go figure!
> Yes Doug - even with my wife's glasses.
This sounds like a browser problem as the content is just text, nothing
fancy. I tried it using three different browsers, Safari, Mozilla, and
Internet Explorer, and all displayed the article properly. OTOH, I am
using a Macintosh so things tend to work better anyway. ;-)
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: I want my freedom |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 20, 2004, at 12:05 AM, Frank Haertlein wrote:
> As long as the poisonous
> words of the koran exist you will have to deal with radical muslims.
> The
> words of the koran will forever breed radical muslims........just as
> the
> words of the bible will forever breed Christians. Do you really want
> that in this country? If so then you better come to accept a
> significant
> loss of your freedoms as that is the only way you are going to be able
> to protect yourself. Don't believe it? Please consider the Patriot Act
> as your first clue, Mr. Politically correct Bryan Lloyd.
How did I get dragged into it this time?
Yeah, I think that the Patriot Act is the most heinous attack on
personal freedom in the US ever to be placed into law. (Well, the
attacks on the 2nd amendment come close.) And the Patriot Act is a
knee-jerk reaction that does not address preventing attacks on the US.
It has nothing to do with Islam or terrorists. It only purports to
have something to do with preventing terrorism, which it does not do.
So "protecting myself" does not require any loss of freedom. The loss
of freedom comes from someone else abridging my freedoms in the name of
"protecting" me. Just because they *SAY* this will protect me or just
because they *SAY* this is because of terrorism doesn't make it so.
But let's focus on the main issue at hand here -- our loss of freedom
to travel in our aircraft as citizens unimpeded between states or
unimpeded to or from this country. Hello! Is anyone on this list who
lives in the US happy with the changes the government has wrought in
the name of "protecting" us from terrorism since September 9, 2001? I
would guess that no one on this list thinks things are better now than
they were a little over three years ago. We are the whipping boy and I
am sick and tired of being whipped by my government in an attempt to
pretend to do something when they have little or no power to do so.
Frank, you can rail about Islam 'till you are blue in the face.
Whether or not we permit Muslims into this country is not going to
change the terrorist situation. There will always be those both inside
and outside the US who would do us harm. I am just sick and tired of
the government nibbling away at my freedom every day using terrorism as
an excuse to do so. They do it because it looks good to an
unenlightened electorate so they can garner points and get reelected.
That asshole congressman in New York who wanted to institute TSA
screening for GA is a perfect example.
And you know what else Frank? It doesn't make squat difference whether
it is Bush or Kerry sitting up there. Both would sell us down the
river if they thought it would help get them elected. After all, there
just aren't that many pilots out there. We don't represent a cohesive
voting block to which they need to pander. Maybe it is time for US to
act like the blacks, latinos, gays, feminists and other special
interest groups who yell, whine, cry, and generally make a nuisance of
themselves until the politicians view them as needing attention. If we
stood up, acted as a unified force, and put our money where our mouth
is we might stop getting beaten up, i.e., "Mr. Politician: you will
either act to rein in an out-of-control bureaucracy or we will elect
someone who will."
So, no Frank, Islam is *NOT* the issue. Our own government is. And
yes this is a yak-list issue because, the way things are going, the
government is going to ground us just as surely as a non-airworthy
aircraft will. They will just do it in the name of Protecting The
People. You know, I would certainly like to think that I will be able
to teach my grandchildren to fly. The way things are going, that just
may not happen.
And Frank, one more thing:
Piss off.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Oct 19, 2004, at 9:45 AM, Tim Gagnon wrote:
> Maybe a mass general aviation fly'in to the DC area and an open invite
> to the politicians to come out would be in order. Maybe they will see
> us as business men, owners of companies, blue and white collars
> workers, CEO's, Doctors, lawyers, police officers, airline pilots and
> in my case, a member of the Armed Forces.
Not until you stand there with enough votes and enough money to make
them take you seriously.
You see, the problem is that pilots are generally honest, well-behaved
people. They mostly want to be left alone to work-on and fly their
airplanes. They don't really want to raise a stink and annoy their
neighbors. Unfortunately it is the antisocial groups who band together
and make a stink that get noticed. I have worked in political
campaigns and have heard, "how are we doing with the
[blacks|latinos|gays|Christians|Jews|labor]," but never, "how are we
doing with the pilots?"
> Brian, that was classic and I trust we will see more from you...
Next time I stop taking my meds and go manic again you probably will.
> I thought YOU guys would enjoy that more than my wife did.
Some people just ain't got no sense of culture.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 23
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
I don't have a program so I sometimes have trouble keeping track of the
players. Are the "peaceful Muslims" the Sunnis or the Shiites? My limited
understanding of their relationship is that the second highest priority of
both these groups is to destroy the other, with the single higher priority
being the goal of destroying Christians/Western civilization. They are
willing to kill each other of a simple matter or sucession of heirs. This
is not my working definition of peaceful.
When was the last time you heard of radical Roman Catholics blowing up an
Eastern Orthodox church? Do the Orthodoxers send car bombs into the
Vatican? The theological differences between these religions are as great
(minor) as between Sunnis and Shiites, yet Catholic and Orthodox resolve
their theological differences by going to different buildings to worship.
There are differences and the biggest one is that neither the Catholic nor
Orthodox bible teaches that killing off the wayward flock will get you an
all-access pass to heaven.
Another example to ponder- Yugoslovia was a conglomeration of extremely
divergent peoples and religions held together by the iron hand of communism.
When that leadership/intimidation fell by the wayside the country split
seven ways. Look at the results: Slovenia and Croatia (less than 1%
Muslim) are now living a 20th, if not 21st, century lifestyle. The
countries are peaceful and relatively prosperous. Life in Serbia and
Herzegovina (40% Muslim) is distinguished from 10th century life primarily
by the fact that there were no land mines or machine guns back then.
The key to prosperity in the Balkans is to draw your borders to make the
Muslims someone else's problem. This is the Balkan equivalent of
jerrymandering, I suppose. Albania-full of peaceful, fun-loving Muslims- is
a backward war-torn country. We could just give their own place and let
them kill each other, but then then the Saddams of the region start killing
off the other Muslims because they are the wrong flavor and then we have to
go "straighten things out"...
When we find our house has termites, we kill them. This is because the
termites have deeply-held, non-negotiable beliefs at odds with our goals and
aspirations. I've never heard of the UN sucessfully overcoming these
differences between termites and homeowners to arrive at a peaceful
coexistance.
Unfortunately, genocide isn't as popular as it used to be so we'll keep
making half-assed efforts to fix things and then run off with our tail
between our legs. Remember Mogadishu? It only took us six weeks there, to
"solve" a 200 year long civil war. We can head to East Timor next.
Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are
putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.--Mark Twain
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: I want my freedom |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
I didn't exactly understand why you were dragged into it either, although
you summarized the political situation very well.
I think the aviation outlook is very bleak until the Air Force shoots down
an airliner. Then we will get a serious discussion of policy and law
regarding the propriety of the Air Force protecting innocent Americans by
killing innocent Americans. In the jet. Because the ones on the ground are
more valuable than the ones in the air, unless the ones in the air are
politicians. Anyway that's why we need the serious discussion at the
highest level of government- to write specific procedures on which innocent
American civilians our Air Force should be able to kill in the name of
freedom and liberty.
And of course the Air Force pilot who shoots down the airliner will go to
prison.
It would have speeded things up if they had shot down the governor of
Kentuckly last month.
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