Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:14 AM - start problems (Lou Dakos)
2. 02:38 AM - The LOC... (Matt Dralle)
3. 06:47 AM - Re: Yakkes-List (Jeff Linebaugh)
4. 07:35 AM - Racing or a Derby? (TC Johnson)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: polar inertia (Dave Laird)
6. 08:17 AM - Re: polar inertia (Ernie)
7. 08:42 AM - Re: Racing or a Derby? (Daniel Fortin)
8. 08:45 AM - Re: polar inertia (Brian Lloyd)
9. 08:57 AM - Re: Baffle pads (Doug Sapp)
10. 08:57 AM - Re: polar inertia (Ernie)
11. 09:12 AM - Re: polar inertia (Dave Laird)
12. 09:21 AM - Re: Baffle pads (Dave Laird)
13. 09:50 AM - Re: Baffle pads (Doug Sapp)
14. 12:22 PM - Re: Yakkes-List (Thunderbolt)
15. 02:33 PM - RedStar "Racers" (cpayne@joimail.com)
16. 03:07 PM - RedStar (Terry Calloway)
17. 03:42 PM - Re: Racing or a Derby? (Herb Coussons)
18. 04:22 PM - Re: Racing or a Derby? (Daniel Fortin)
19. 06:05 PM - Re: Racing or a Derby? (cjpilot710@aol.com)
20. 09:12 PM - Re: Racing or a Derby? (Ron Davis)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lou Dakos" <ldakos@bigpond.net.au>
Walt
My cj did this but I could hear the soleniod opening so I moved prop so that I
was on a different cylinder and she started straight away mabe pnuematic valve
on that pot is a bit tight, I havn't had it hapen again so I am not sure?
Lou
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hi Listers,
The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st
I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support
the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a
minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.
Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of
Contributors? As a number of people have pointed out, the List seems at
least, if not a whole lot more, as valuable as a building/flying/recreating
tool as a typical your magazine subscription. We won't even talk about a
newsstand price... :-)
Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming
LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to
support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa or M/C on the SSL Secure
Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by popping a personal check in the mail to:
Matronics Email Lists
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore CA 94551-0347
I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution
thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support
that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a
little comment about how the Lists have helped you! I love to feel the
love... :-)
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jeff Linebaugh" <jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net>
Hello Alex!
Thanks for your note!
Check out our website...it explains all the history we know of our airplane.
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh
The CJ-6 came/comes from the factory in at least 3 versions:
CJ-6: airframe with HS-6 engine (260 HP)
CJ-6A: same airframe with HS-6A engine (285 HP)
CJ-6G: new airframes sold for export (usually without engine to the U.S.)
Numerous CJs have been converted to the Russian M-14P engine (360 HP) and
have been known coloquially as CJ-6P's. There are also modifications
available to increase range with additional fuel. You can add the ER
monniker to these aircraft.... Then there are a few with "glass cockpits"
and autopilots! ....so add a G and an A..... you end up with a CJ-6PERGA.
I can hear it now...guys at the next event bragging on there "PERGA'd"
Changs.
Its nice to know we have Yak friends in the Netherlands! Fly safe!
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
-------Original Message-------
From: Thunderbolt
Subject: Yakkes-List
Helleu Yakflyer,
My name is Alex Smit and I live in the Netherlands. Recently I joint the
Yakkes Foudation. We fly four Yak-52's. In the wintertime we try to kill
time by creating the Yakkes-list. The Yakkes-list has to become a list of
all Yak-radials worldwide. Ofcourse we're starting off with Yak-52 but it
has to grow to a list of all types of Yak-radials.
On the Yak-list I saw you fly CJ-6P N621CJ.
Could you help me with some more info on the plane? Why is it a CJ-6P? Info
like constructionnumber and history of the plane, owner, previous owners and
maybe a good picture to add to the data?
And maybe you have info on more Yaks or their owners.
I will add all this info to the Yakkes-list that's not yet online. But when
it is it will be added to www.yakkes.com.
In advance I thank you very much.
Greetz, Alex Smit
Message 4
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| Subject: | Racing or a Derby? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "TC Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
Gentleman:
I might recommend you reconsider the "Racing" and perhaps schedule something more
benign such as a "Derby".
Closed course racing is a no-no in the insurance world.
Some other things you should never admit to:
Racing.
Animal, bird or fish spotting or herding.
Low level photography.
Low level acro
The Reno participants have special waivers for the insurance.
And some for more than 250kts below 10k. . . ..
Tj
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: polar inertia |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
Pappy-
How do you stuff a bag of shot into the tail cone and secure it?
I'd hate for the bag to come loose or bust and "shoot" myself down!
Does anyone have pictures of the installation?
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Dallas
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: polar inertia |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
The bag cant come loose. Theres a pocket in the tail confined by a bulkhed
forward, the tail sides and the tail end and then theres a deck with a hole
in it.. You access it by removing the tail fairing. You stuff a shot bag
down into the hole and then you pour the shot into the bag. I tie wrapped
the top of the bag closed. I've got about 28 lbs and I'm still a little
forward CG.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Laird" <dave@davelaird.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: polar inertia
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
>
> Pappy-
>
> How do you stuff a bag of shot into the tail cone and secure it?
> I'd hate for the bag to come loose or bust and "shoot" myself down!
> Does anyone have pictures of the installation?
>
>
> Dave Laird
> N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
> Dallas
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Racing or a Derby? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
TJ,
What about low level acro in a box like the one in MTW each year? It is
legal to perform low level acro since that is the sole purpose of the box.
Is this sufficient for the underwriters?
DF
>From: "TC Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
>Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Yak-List: Racing or a Derby?
>Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:34:52 -0700
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "TC Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
>
>Gentleman:
>I might recommend you reconsider the "Racing" and perhaps schedule
>something more benign such as a "Derby".
>Closed course racing is a no-no in the insurance world.
>
>Some other things you should never admit to:
>Racing.
>Animal, bird or fish spotting or herding.
>Low level photography.
>Low level acro
>
>The Reno participants have special waivers for the insurance.
>And some for more than 250kts below 10k. . . ..
>
>Tj
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: polar inertia |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Nov 22, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Dave Laird wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
>
> Pappy-
>
> How do you stuff a bag of shot into the tail cone and secure it?
> I'd hate for the bag to come loose or bust and "shoot" myself down!
> Does anyone have pictures of the installation?
Dave,
Remember that Betty has the 24V battery at the ADF antenna station and
the SCUBA bottle is about at the same station. You should not need as
much lead in the tail as other aircraft in order to place the aircraft
at the forward CG limit with one person aboard.
You should also reweigh the airplane before playing with lead in the
tail. There is a chance that the W&B data for Betty may be suspect.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Terry,
I normally have them in stock but am out right now of stock. I do however
have a mess of them ordered and I do have confirmation that they are in the
next shipment. Let me know how many you need. They are the same on both
engines.
Just back from China last night and am spending my Sunday wading through 350
emails and over 100 phone messages. The trip was good, got to play tourist
and also found a few new parts, but was unable to bring much home in my
luggage because of the new security issues. The main reason for the trip
was to inspect the 6 freshly remanufactured CJ6's. When I arrived they only
had one done and 5 others were just being started. They are starting by
stripping the aircraft of all parts, then removing all paint, in and out.
All parts are sent back to their respective factories (Nanchang factory
builds nothing, they just assemble) for overhaul. All bearings are replaced
as are all hoses and hard lines. They are also replacing the stock aluminum
firewall with a stainless steel firewall!! They should be top quality
aircraft when they are done.
Some parts are getting expensive, especially electrical stuff. Spark plugs
are a good example as my cost is up nearly 30%. I ordered over 1000 of them
anyway because I really do not expect the price to do any thing but go up
even more.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry Calloway
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Baffle pads
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway"
<tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
Also, if you figure out a way, I'd like to know what others are doing to
get new pads.
tc
>>> cpayne@joimail.com 11/19/2004 6:29:17 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
<cpayne@joimail.com>
Has anyone discovered a "good' way to install new pads on
the cylinder baffles? I have tried setting rivets with a
washer under the shop head, using 3.5mm push clips with a
rivet but neither is really as good as what was used to
install originally and I'm not sure how that was done.
Craig Payne
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: polar inertia |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ernie" <ernest.martinez@oracle.com>
Agreed, the amount of shot in my tail was based on stock battery location
and the removal of all radios including the ADF receiver and the radio
shelf.
I had weighed my airplane BEFORE I added shot but AFTER I removed the
radios.
Ernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lloyd" <brianl@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: polar inertia
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
>
>
> On Nov 22, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Dave Laird wrote:
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
> >
> > Pappy-
> >
> > How do you stuff a bag of shot into the tail cone and secure it?
> > I'd hate for the bag to come loose or bust and "shoot" myself down!
> > Does anyone have pictures of the installation?
>
> Dave,
>
> Remember that Betty has the 24V battery at the ADF antenna station and
> the SCUBA bottle is about at the same station. You should not need as
> much lead in the tail as other aircraft in order to place the aircraft
> at the forward CG limit with one person aboard.
>
> You should also reweigh the airplane before playing with lead in the
> tail. There is a chance that the W&B data for Betty may be suspect.
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
> citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: polar inertia |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
Hi Brian,
We are going to re-weigh Betty this winter.
I expect to find that we won't need to add much, if any, weight in the
tail.
And I understand fully your comment about suspect W&B... (duplicates...)
I'm just curious on how people actually ADD weight to the tail cone and
how it is
affixed to what structure.
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty" (brian's beautiful old bird!)
Dallas
On Nov 22, 2004, at 10:44 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
>
>
> On Nov 22, 2004, at 12:07 PM, Dave Laird wrote:
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
>>
>> Pappy-
>>
>> How do you stuff a bag of shot into the tail cone and secure it?
>> I'd hate for the bag to come loose or bust and "shoot" myself down!
>> Does anyone have pictures of the installation?
>
> Dave,
>
> Remember that Betty has the 24V battery at the ADF antenna station and
> the SCUBA bottle is about at the same station. You should not need as
> much lead in the tail as other aircraft in order to place the aircraft
> at the forward CG limit with one person aboard.
>
> You should also reweigh the airplane before playing with lead in the
> tail. There is a chance that the W&B data for Betty may be suspect.
>
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
> +1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
>
> There is a time to laud one's country and a time to protest. A good
> citizen is prepared to do either as the need arises.
>
>
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
I bought some baffle pads a while back and they work fine...
but I was wondering instead of using the leather/foam baffles seals if
anyone
has just bought a 12 or 15 foot piece of hi-temp hose and just
wrapped around the engine where the baffle pads used to be....
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Dallas
On Nov 22, 2004, at 10:57 AM, Doug Sapp wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Terry,
> I normally have them in stock but am out right now of stock. I do
> however
> have a mess of them ordered and I do have confirmation that they are
> in the
> next shipment. Let me know how many you need. They are the same on
> both
> engines.
>
> Just back from China last night and am spending my Sunday wading
> through 350
> emails and over 100 phone messages. The trip was good, got to play
> tourist
> and also found a few new parts, but was unable to bring much home in my
> luggage because of the new security issues. The main reason for the
> trip
> was to inspect the 6 freshly remanufactured CJ6's. When I arrived
> they only
> had one done and 5 others were just being started. They are starting
> by
> stripping the aircraft of all parts, then removing all paint, in and
> out.
> All parts are sent back to their respective factories (Nanchang factory
> builds nothing, they just assemble) for overhaul. All bearings are
> replaced
> as are all hoses and hard lines. They are also replacing the stock
> aluminum
> firewall with a stainless steel firewall!! They should be top quality
> aircraft when they are done.
>
> Some parts are getting expensive, especially electrical stuff. Spark
> plugs
> are a good example as my cost is up nearly 30%. I ordered over 1000
> of them
> anyway because I really do not expect the price to do any thing but go
> up
> even more.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry Calloway
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Baffle pads
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway"
> <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
>
> Also, if you figure out a way, I'd like to know what others are doing
> to
> get new pads.
> tc
>
>>>> cpayne@joimail.com 11/19/2004 6:29:17 PM >>>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
> <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> Has anyone discovered a "good' way to install new pads on
> the cylinder baffles? I have tried setting rivets with a
> washer under the shop head, using 3.5mm push clips with a
> rivet but neither is really as good as what was used to
> install originally and I'm not sure how that was done.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Dave,
Anything that will fill the space and act as a vibration barrier between the
engine and the more stationary cowling will work, but don't forget that your
hose idea (if installed in one long piece) will make removal of the baffles
impossible unless you cut the hose in short sections. I seriously doubt
that you would like the looks of a length of hose over that of the stock
leather wrapped foam baffle pads. Just my opinion.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Laird
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Baffle pads
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
I bought some baffle pads a while back and they work fine...
but I was wondering instead of using the leather/foam baffles seals if
anyone
has just bought a 12 or 15 foot piece of hi-temp hose and just
wrapped around the engine where the baffle pads used to be....
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Dallas
On Nov 22, 2004, at 10:57 AM, Doug Sapp wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Terry,
> I normally have them in stock but am out right now of stock. I do
> however
> have a mess of them ordered and I do have confirmation that they are
> in the
> next shipment. Let me know how many you need. They are the same on
> both
> engines.
>
> Just back from China last night and am spending my Sunday wading
> through 350
> emails and over 100 phone messages. The trip was good, got to play
> tourist
> and also found a few new parts, but was unable to bring much home in my
> luggage because of the new security issues. The main reason for the
> trip
> was to inspect the 6 freshly remanufactured CJ6's. When I arrived
> they only
> had one done and 5 others were just being started. They are starting
> by
> stripping the aircraft of all parts, then removing all paint, in and
> out.
> All parts are sent back to their respective factories (Nanchang factory
> builds nothing, they just assemble) for overhaul. All bearings are
> replaced
> as are all hoses and hard lines. They are also replacing the stock
> aluminum
> firewall with a stainless steel firewall!! They should be top quality
> aircraft when they are done.
>
> Some parts are getting expensive, especially electrical stuff. Spark
> plugs
> are a good example as my cost is up nearly 30%. I ordered over 1000
> of them
> anyway because I really do not expect the price to do any thing but go
> up
> even more.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry Calloway
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Baffle pads
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway"
> <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
>
> Also, if you figure out a way, I'd like to know what others are doing
> to
> get new pads.
> tc
>
>>>> cpayne@joimail.com 11/19/2004 6:29:17 PM >>>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
> <cpayne@joimail.com>
>
> Has anyone discovered a "good' way to install new pads on
> the cylinder baffles? I have tried setting rivets with a
> washer under the shop head, using 3.5mm push clips with a
> rivet but neither is really as good as what was used to
> install originally and I'm not sure how that was done.
>
> Craig Payne
>
>
Message 14
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"Yak-list" <yak-list@matronics.com>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Thunderbolt" <thunderbolt@home.nl>
Helleu Jeff,
Thanx for your quick response, both on mail and on the Yak-list.
And for explaining the CJ-alfabet ;-)
Nice looking site with exactly the info I was looking for and a great looking CJ!
Is it ok for us to use pictures from the site?
Met vriendelijke groet, with kind regards, mit freundlichen Gr=FCssen,
Salutations amicales, Srdacan pozdrav, greetz,
Alex Smit
www.yakkes.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Linebaugh
To: thunderbolt@home.nl ; yak-list@matronics. com
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: Yakkes-List
Hello Alex!
Thanks for your note!
Check out our website...it explains all the history we know of our airplane.
http://home.earthlink.net/~jefflinebaugh
The CJ-6 came/comes from the factory in at least 3 versions:
CJ-6: airframe with HS-6 engine (260 HP)
CJ-6A: same airframe with HS-6A engine (285 HP)
CJ-6G: new airframes sold for export (usually without engine to the U.S.)
Numerous CJs have been converted to the Russian M-14P engine (360 HP) and
have been known coloquially as CJ-6P's. There are also modifications available
to increase range with additional fuel. You can add the ER monniker to these
aircraft.... Then there are a few with "glass cockpits" and autopilots!
....so add a G and an A..... you end up with a CJ-6PERGA... I can hear it
now...guys at the next event bragging on there "PERGA'd" Changs.
Its nice to know we have Yak friends in the Netherlands! Fly safe!
Jeff Linebaugh
jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
CJ-6P N621CJ
Memphis, TN
-------Original Message-------
From: Thunderbolt
Date: 11/21/04 05:27:23
To: jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net
Subject: Yakkes-List
Helleu Yakflyer,
My name is Alex Smit and I live in the Netherlands. Recently I joint the
Yakkes Foudation. We fly four Yak-52's. In the wintertime we try to kill time
by creating the Yakkes-list. The Yakkes-list has to become a list of all Yak-radials
worldwide. Ofcourse we're starting off with Yak-52 but it has to grow
to a list of all types of Yak-radials.
On the Yak-list I saw you fly CJ-6P N621CJ.
Could you help me with some more info on the plane? Why is it a CJ-6P?
Info like constructionnumber and history of the plane, owner, previous owners
and maybe a good picture to add to the data?
And maybe you have info on more Yaks or their owners.
I will add all this info to the Yakkes-list that's not yet online. But when it is it will be added to www.yakkes.com.
In advance I thank you very much.
Greetz, Alex Smit
Message 15
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| Subject: | RedStar "Racers" |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
Tom, et al:
It's NOT racing, it is an Exhibition of what racing looks
like to the spectator. The crowd may think it's "racing" but
airshow organizers and pilots will understand that is
Formation flying with no acro. Bank angles less than 60
degrees, speeds under 200kts (as if that were a problem).
Race Boss sits in the overhead "Pace Plane" and calls all
scripted lead and position changes. A timer/flagman is for
show and an "race" announcer completes the illusion.
100' AGL min in front of crowd during a "race" and 200-400
AGL on the back straight so the "racers" remain visible to
the crowd in front. All on a 3 to 4 mile course around an
airport, clear of obstructions and always near a runway.
REAL Racing is dangerous, I prefer Exhibition racing
instead. Even so, it can be challenging; only good sticks
with solid formation skills need apply.
Craig Payne
Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
Craig,
Got the package to day and will pass out to air show promoters at
ICAS.
Regards,
tc
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Racing or a Derby? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
The acro box at MTW is not considered low level since the floor is
3500. My understanding is that airshow performers need a waiver for
say 250 or 500 ft - this is low level. The guy that flew one evening
low - Larry - has such low level waivers for airshow work.
Herb
On Nov 22, 2004, at 10:41 AM, Daniel Fortin wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin"
> <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
>
> TJ,
> What about low level acro in a box like the one in MTW each year? It
> is
> legal to perform low level acro since that is the sole purpose of the
> box.
> Is this sufficient for the underwriters?
>
> DF
>
>> From: "TC Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
>> Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Yak-List: Racing or a Derby?
>> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:34:52 -0700
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "TC Johnson"
>> <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
>>
>> Gentleman:
>> I might recommend you reconsider the "Racing" and perhaps schedule
>> something more benign such as a "Derby".
>> Closed course racing is a no-no in the insurance world.
>>
>> Some other things you should never admit to:
>> Racing.
>> Animal, bird or fish spotting or herding.
>> Low level photography.
>> Low level acro
>>
>> The Reno participants have special waivers for the insurance.
>> And some for more than 250kts below 10k. . . ..
>>
>> Tj
>>
>>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Racing or a Derby? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin" <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
Herb,
Maybe I read wrong, but I don'tremember reading anything in the waiver about
a 3500ft floor. Most of the individuals who used the box were below 3500ft.
Plus no pilot has (to the best of my knowledge) a low altitude aerobatic
waiver. What they have is a ICAS recommendation card which proves to the
FAA that they meet the requirements to perform an airshow at low altitudes.
This card by itself does not constitute a waiver.
Dan
>From: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
>Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Racing or a Derby?
>Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:41:55 -0600
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Herb Coussons <drc@wscare.com>
>
>The acro box at MTW is not considered low level since the floor is
>3500. My understanding is that airshow performers need a waiver for
>say 250 or 500 ft - this is low level. The guy that flew one evening
>low - Larry - has such low level waivers for airshow work.
>
>Herb
>
>On Nov 22, 2004, at 10:41 AM, Daniel Fortin wrote:
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Daniel Fortin"
> > <fougapilot@hotmail.com>
> >
> > TJ,
> > What about low level acro in a box like the one in MTW each year? It
> > is
> > legal to perform low level acro since that is the sole purpose of the
> > box.
> > Is this sufficient for the underwriters?
> >
> > DF
> >
> >> From: "TC Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> >> Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: Yak-List: Racing or a Derby?
> >> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 08:34:52 -0700
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "TC Johnson"
> >> <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
> >>
> >> Gentleman:
> >> I might recommend you reconsider the "Racing" and perhaps schedule
> >> something more benign such as a "Derby".
> >> Closed course racing is a no-no in the insurance world.
> >>
> >> Some other things you should never admit to:
> >> Racing.
> >> Animal, bird or fish spotting or herding.
> >> Low level photography.
> >> Low level acro
> >>
> >> The Reno participants have special waivers for the insurance.
> >> And some for more than 250kts below 10k. . . ..
> >>
> >> Tj
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Racing or a Derby? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 11/22/2004 6:43:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
drc@wscare.com writes:
The acro box at MTW is not considered low level since the floor is
3500. My understanding is that airshow performers need a waiver for
say 250 or 500 ft - this is low level. The guy that flew one evening
low - Larry - has such low level waivers for airshow work.
Herb
Herb,
Are you sure about that? When I set the box up at MTW, FAA & ATC at Greenbay
were concerned that the TOP of the box be at or BELOW 3,500 msl. Based on
arrival traffic into OSH and Greenbay. The way I understood our setup was at
the time, was pilots without low altitude waivers had the box from 1,500' agl to
3,500' msl. Those with waivers could use the box at whatever altitude their
wavier called for.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Racing or a Derby? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
The FAR says (in part):
Sec. 91.303 Aerobatic flight.
No person may operate an aircraft in aerobatic flight--
(e) Below an altitude of 1,500 feet above the surface; or...
That's the part that says you can't. Where is the part that says you can if
ICAS
gives you a "recommendation card"?
Question 2: Why would anyone ask for an acro box with a floor of 3500'?
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