Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:21 AM - Re: Letter to the Editor (Gus Fraser)
2. 06:37 AM - automotive oil (Jon Boede)
3. 07:19 AM - Re: automotive oil (Ernest Martinez)
4. 08:26 AM - Re: [SPAM] - Re: Waycross - Email found in subject (Jay Land)
5. 09:01 AM - Re: Generator current draw (Doug Sapp)
6. 01:29 PM - RPA FAST Card Renewal and Membership Notice (Drew Blahnick)
7. 01:57 PM - What is a warbird (Gus Fraser)
8. 02:49 PM - Re: What is a warbird (Bryan Jones)
9. 02:54 PM - Re: Automotive Oil (cpayne@joimail.com)
10. 03:07 PM - Re: What is a Warbird (cpayne@joimail.com)
11. 03:13 PM - Re: What is a Warbird (cpayne@joimail.com)
12. 05:39 PM - Rich Hess (Ernest Martinez)
13. 06:45 PM - Re: What is a Warbird (Frank Haertlein)
14. 06:48 PM - Re: Rich Hess (cjpilot710@aol.com)
15. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: What is a Warbird (Gus Fraser)
16. 08:27 PM - jet fly-in plug (Jon Boede)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Letter to the Editor |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Maybe it's time for a new T Shirt to be made
"Better off red than dead, Get a Yak or a CJ, you know it makes sense !"
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: Letter to the Editor
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
I enjoyed Bud Davisson article "At Your Service" on the affordability of
some
warbirds. The "Big Iron" gets a lot of attention at airshows, but they also
got a lot of attention during WW2 because reporters back than were looking
for
things exciting and clamorous and the P-51 and such, fit the bill. John Q.
Plubic seldom heard about anything else.
But I got to pick on Bud's article a little. He included the Tiger Moth and
Chipmunk so I know he wasn't just writing about US warbirds. But he forgot
to
mention the Chinese CJ-6A or the Russian Yaks. These airplanes, legitiment
warbirds, are more numerous now than T-34s and 1/5 the cost. Parts are easy
to
get and cheaper. Things like tires, canopy glass, and exhaust stacks are
made here in the US and are very affordible. Plus with the Redstar Pilots
Association, an owner can get lots help on maintenance, insurance, and
safety
issues, to say nothing of the comradeship at our formation clinics and
airshow
participation. They are great flying airplanes to boot.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby EAA 0046309
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
What's the difference between automotive oil and aviation oil?
Why would it be unwise to put Penzoil 10W50 in my CJ?
(not that I've done this, just curious)
Jon
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: automotive oil |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Excerpt from
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jspbodyPage=/support/publications/keyReprints/operation/tips.html
QUESTION Is there really any difference between good automotive oil
and aviation oil?
ANSWER Yes indeed there is! Don't ever use automotive oil in your
aircraft engine. These oils are now blended for use with unleaded
fuels, and the additives in auto oil cause problems in an aircraft
engine that operates at much higher temperatures than the automobile
engine. We have encountered engines with holes burned in pistons due
to the use of automotive oils that have an ash deposit causing
preignition. It seems awfully hard to convince people who have had
great success with the oil used in their car that it may not be used
in their aircraft engine.
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 08:34:27 -0600 (CST), Jon Boede <jon@email.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> What's the difference between automotive oil and aviation oil?
>
> Why would it be unwise to put Penzoil 10W50 in my CJ?
>
> (not that I've done this, just curious)
>
> Jon
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Waycross - Email found in subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com>
We'd love to come to Leeward anytime!
Jay
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:34:51 -0500
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: [SPAM] - Re: Yak-List: Waycross - Email found in subject
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> I'll second on Jay's comments. I talked to Shane about hosting a
> little flyin here at Leeward in Ocala Fl. sometime in the spring. I'd
> like to get a show of hands to see how many folks would be interested.
>
> Ernie
>
>
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:28:13 -0500, Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com>
>>
>> As expected, Waycross was an incredible event once again this year. Even
>> the weather cooperated, and we were able to fly virtually all day every day.
>> I think we had 16 Yaks and CJ's, 2 L29's and 1 L39 (did you count 'em
>> Shane?)
>>
>> In addition to all the 2 ship and 4 ship training flights, we even managed
>> to have one Mass formation practice with 12 ships in the air and the "Race"
>> demo practice.
>>
>> The locals really appreciated us being there and the airport and community
>> provided discounted fuel and a BBQ lunch on Saturday.
>>
>> I think Gabby and I flew 20 times over the 4 days!
>>
>> Congrats to Shane on getting his WING and to all the others who advanced on
>> their formation skills and ratings.
>>
>> I can't wait for next year! Maybe we need to do it down there again in the
>> Spring sometime???
>>
>> Jay
>>
>>> From: "Robert Starnes" <a35plt@yahoo.com>
>>> Reply-To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:06:14 -0800 (PST)
>>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>>> Subject: [SPAM] - Yak-List: Waycross - Email found in subject
>>>
>>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> Would just like to take a moment on the list to say
>>> thanks to Shane Golden, Jay Land, Drew, Rich, and all
>>> the rest of the gang who helped put on the event at
>>> Waycross. I don't know who did what and I'm leaving
>>> many people out I know but your efforts are
>>> appreciated. I think a good time was had by all and it
>>> sure bought out the locals. I didn't get to stay as
>>> long as I wanted but it was great to finally meet
>>> people in person that I have exchanged Emails and
>>> phone calls with. The Red Star community just keeps
>>> getting stronger...
>>> - Robert Starnes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Generator current draw |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Brian,
Don't forget that the 50 has a much smaller and tighter cockpit area than
the CJ. I really think that the larger DC Thermal unit would give him the
heat that he is looking for. Most of the cold air entering the CJ6 comes in
via the rear slider and even with the addition of the rear canopy seal mod a
bit of air still finds it's way in unless you have the exhaust muff type
heater to pressurize the cockpit with blast air via the gills. The Yak 50's
rearmost canopy section is "fixed" so it does not have this problem.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Generator current draw
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brianl@lloyd.com>
On Jan 19, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Bitterlich GS11 Mark G wrote:
> Just what is the maximum recommended continious current draw
> limitation for
> the standard unmodified generator on an M-14P, to include the
> regulation
> system. I.E., the Generator itself might be rated for a larger
> current draw
> than the wiring and regulator of the aircraft are capable of.
It should be 50A. Always derate by 10% just because so that means you
can run at 45A without too much concern.
> So, just what
> would be the maximum additional current draw over "stock" that anyone
> can
> recommend..... and.... where would any experts recommend "tapping in"
> for a
> draw this large?
I installed one of the 24V, 25A radiant space heaters in my CJ.
Frankly, it was a waste of time and money. It just couldn't put a dent
in the cold. It was so ineffective that I doubt the 35A unit would make
enough of a difference.
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brianl@lloyd.com Suite 201
+1.340.998.9447 St. Thomas, VI 00802
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 6
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| Subject: | RPA FAST Card Renewal and Membership Notice |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
RPA Warbird Drivers,
As you know, the RPA has activated secure credit card renewal & membership and
we are in the process of updating the system on the backside to make it much less
labor intensive and easier to administer by our volunteer staff. Deon, our
volunteer webmaster is devoting significant time to this project to make it a
smooth, sophisticated system that minimizes volunteer manhours. During this transition
there is somewhat of a delay as we get the new system up and running
so please be patient. Some FAST cards have already gone out and more are in the
works. If you have paid your 2005 RPA dues and the 2005 FAST card fee AND are
current in the RPA FAST databse, you will be getting your 2005 FAST card. We
are updating the FAST database today with the latest FPRs that have arrived
in the mail and we will get the database uploaded to the website for your scrutiny.
If you need your FAST card immediately because of a formation airshow committment,
please contact Mike Filucci off line
(mfilucci@aol.com) and we'll get you squared away.
We are bringing online a new plastic membership card. For those FAST pilots renewing
now, RPA FAST will issue the standard laminated cards: The plastic combination
card that serves as a membership card on one side and a FAST card on the
reverse side will be issued later as the vendor comes online. Next year you
will only get the plastic combination card and it will serve as your official
FAST card.
Non-FAST qual'ed members will get a plastic membership card this year.
The website has been tweaked (again, by Deon) to make on line renewal much easier
(go to the website store) and we think the bugs have been worked out (thanks
to feedback from some frustrated early beta testers).
Renewing by mail will be the slower of the two ways to renew (verses on line), and causes a few staff members to spend flying time fat fingering data in to the database, but if you are going to renew by mail, I have posted updated RPA APPLICATIONS in PDF format to both the secure (logged in) and public side of the RPA homepage - first paragraph about Renewing with the rpa at www.flyredstar.org
As always, your FAST paperwork (FPRs and Checkride forms) should go to:
Michael Filucci
RPA FAST Committee/Records
517 Magnolia Avenue
Frederick, MD 21701-8503
Drew Blahnick
El Heffe'
Thanks Mike!
Message 7
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| Subject: | What is a warbird |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Well really what is a warbird please see the link below :-
http://www.vansaircraft.com/public/nigerian.htm
Can you imagine if all the RV owners showed up at warbirds wanting to park
at OSH. Let's face it folks they have as much validity as Yaks and CJs
Always looking at it from another angle.
Dosaff used an SP91 so theoretically I could park in WB with that.
Gus
Gus
Message 8
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| Subject: | What is a warbird |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>Can you imagine if all the RV owners showed up at warbirds wanting to park
>at OSH. Let's face it folks they have as much validity as Yaks and CJs
(bright light comes on!!)
Ahhh - Now I can wear my Nomex gloves, coveralls and helmet without fear of
appearing, well, "extreme"! :)
Bryan RV-8
CJ someday
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Automotive Oil |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
Danger! Danger! Danger! Unless you know *exactly* what
additive compounds are in the oil, don't use it.
Reason? Many automotive oils use zinc and sulfate compounds
as additives for anti-wear or to enhance some property of
the oil, temps and whatnot. Zinc and other compounds will
eat away at the lead plating which covers the silver plating
on your master rod bearing and some day the sucker will
freeze up solid...perhaps in flight!
This HAS HAPPENED to large surplus radials, our engines use
the same technology and are sensitive to these compounds.
Big radial rebuilders supply their customers with x-ray
photos verifying good plating. One pic before and one after.
Often surplus OH big engines sealed in the can after WW-II.
STILL need to be checked, due to shelf life problems in this
are (and others).
If *anything* at all scares you, FEAR THIS!
Craig Payne
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: What is a Warbird |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
The RV is not an isolated case, years ago, the Tiawanese
military build some PL-1's as trainers. So What makes a
warbird? Good question, I see 3. major categories:
1. The aircraft was formerly carried on the inventory of a
military service somewhere. This is the case with the Yak-52
and CJ's.
2. The aircraft was manufactured for military use but a few
were sold to the civilian market anyway. (PC-7 and PC-9,
Piper P-51 Enforcer)
3. The aircraft is a civilian version of a type carried on
the inventory. Example, the Navion. Originally an L-17
version was ordered and used, today, any civilian Navion
(never in inventory) with WB paint is allowed into WB
parking, same goes for O-2/C-337 and many others included
many Yak-52's, especially W's and -TW's.
If dozens of RV's showed up in P-51 paint schemes at OSH
expecting WB registration, I wouldn't be surprised if
category 1 was enforced.
Craig Payne
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: What is a Warbird |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
The RV is not an isolated case, years ago, the Tiawanese
military build some PL-1's as trainers. So What makes a
warbird? Good question, I see 3 major categories:
1. The aircraft was formerly carried on the inventory of a
military service somewhere. This is the case with the Yak-52
and CJ's.
2. The aircraft was manufactured for military use but a few
were sold to the civilian market anyway. (PC-7 and PC-9,
Piper P-51 Enforcer, new Yak-3/7)
3. The aircraft is a civilian version of a type carried on
the inventory. Example, the Navion. Originally an L-17
version was ordered and used, today, any civilian Navion
(never in inventory) with WB paint is allowed into WB
parking, same goes for O-2/C-337 and many others including
many Yak-52's, especially Yak-52TW's.
If dozens of RV's showed up in P-51 paint schemes at OSH
expecting WB registration, I wouldn't be surprised if
category 1 was enforced.
Craig Payne
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Can someone give me Rich Hess's phone number offline please.
Thanks
Ernie
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: What is a Warbird |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
What makes a warbird?
Maybe the actual plane in question has had to have served in some
military capacity? Kind of like the Cessna 337. Some saw actual military
service and some were built for the civilian market. You wouldn't take
one built for the civilian market and call it a warbird.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: What is a Warbird
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
--> <cpayne@joimail.com>
The RV is not an isolated case, years ago, the Tiawanese military build
some PL-1's as trainers. So What makes a warbird? Good question, I see
3. major categories:
1. The aircraft was formerly carried on the inventory of a military
service somewhere. This is the case with the Yak-52 and CJ's.
2. The aircraft was manufactured for military use but a few were sold to
the civilian market anyway. (PC-7 and PC-9, Piper P-51 Enforcer)
3. The aircraft is a civilian version of a type carried on
the inventory. Example, the Navion. Originally an L-17
version was ordered and used, today, any civilian Navion
(never in inventory) with WB paint is allowed into WB
parking, same goes for O-2/C-337 and many others included
many Yak-52's, especially W's and -TW's.
If dozens of RV's showed up in P-51 paint schemes at OSH expecting WB
registration, I wouldn't be surprised if category 1 was enforced.
Craig Payne
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 1/20/2005 8:40:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
erniel29@gmail.com writes:
Can someone give me Rich Hess's phone number offline please.
Thanks
Ernie
Ernie. Try 770-975-8328 & 404-964-4885 for Hess.
BTW what's the annual dues over there at Leeward?
Pappy
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: What is a Warbird |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Then what do you make of the Yak52 TW ? to the best of my knowledge it has
never served with anyone. Some CJs were used as Ag sprayers in the Peoples
republic.
If your aircraft sounds like a warbird it does not make it one. I am asking
the question because I really want to find the "definitive answer". As I
said I have managed to document my new aircraft SP91 as having served with
DOSAF as have Yak 55s and Sukhois, not my actual one but others, which by
any measure puts it ahead of the TW. Even the Yak 52W is not the same
aircraft as the ones that served.
By whatever metric you choose the RV has a better pedigree than the TW.
If as you say the "actual" plane needs to have served then no Yak post 1989
should be acceptable as a warbird and certainly none of the new CJs.
Sorry to be a pain about this but there are some bizarre standards at play
here. Maybe it is as simple as if the public think it's a warbird then a
warbird it must be.
Gus
Coolest little SP-91 in the world.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein
Subject: Yak-List: Re: What is a Warbird
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
What makes a warbird?
Maybe the actual plane in question has had to have served in some
military capacity? Kind of like the Cessna 337. Some saw actual military
service and some were built for the civilian market. You wouldn't take
one built for the civilian market and call it a warbird.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cpayne@joimail.com
Subject: Yak-List: Re: What is a Warbird
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com"
--> <cpayne@joimail.com>
The RV is not an isolated case, years ago, the Tiawanese military build
some PL-1's as trainers. So What makes a warbird? Good question, I see
3. major categories:
1. The aircraft was formerly carried on the inventory of a military
service somewhere. This is the case with the Yak-52 and CJ's.
2. The aircraft was manufactured for military use but a few were sold to
the civilian market anyway. (PC-7 and PC-9, Piper P-51 Enforcer)
3. The aircraft is a civilian version of a type carried on
the inventory. Example, the Navion. Originally an L-17
version was ordered and used, today, any civilian Navion
(never in inventory) with WB paint is allowed into WB
parking, same goes for O-2/C-337 and many others included
many Yak-52's, especially W's and -TW's.
If dozens of RV's showed up in P-51 paint schemes at OSH expecting WB
registration, I wouldn't be surprised if category 1 was enforced.
Craig Payne
Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Yeah, I know this is the wrong place for this, but since they have red
stars on them...
Jet Warbird Fly-In, May 13-15, Lancaster (15 SE Dallas) Texas
F.A.S.T. clinic with check pilots, big party, free food, lots of noise.
Contact me ( jon@email.net) or Roma ( roma@airmail.net)
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