Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:58 AM - What is a warbird? Not Again!!!! Peter Moll from WoA's answer. (PSalter@aol.com)
2. 05:58 AM - Re: What is a warbird? Not Again!!!! Peter Moll from WoA's answer. (Gus Fraser)
3. 06:34 AM - Re: What is a warbird? Not Again!!!! Peter Moll from WoA's answer. (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 06:48 AM - Instrument panel (Kelley Monroe)
5. 07:34 AM - Re: What is a warbird? (Robert Starnes)
6. 08:21 AM - (Barry Hancock)
7. 09:40 AM - Re: What is a warbird? (Terry Calloway)
8. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: 20W50 vs 20W60 (PeteAbbott@aol.com)
9. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: What is a warbird? (Bryan Jones)
10. 02:47 PM - Re: Re: What is a warbird? (cjpilot710@aol.com)
11. 05:46 PM - What is a warbird? (Frank Haertlein)
12. 07:28 PM - Re: RPA Store Shipments, websites (Sam Sax)
13. 08:05 PM - Re: 2nd annual "Dust off in the Desert" (ByronMFox@aol.com)
14. 08:16 PM - Re: 2nd annual "Dust off in the Desert" (Jay Land)
Message 1
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| Subject: | What is a warbird? Not Again!!!! Peter Moll from WoA's |
answer.
Subject@matronics.com, contains@matronics.com, lots@matronics.com,
of@matronics.com, white@matronics.com, space@matronics.com,
0.51@matronics.com, PLING_QUERY@matronics.com, Subject@matronics.com,
has@matronics.com, exclamation@matronics.com, mark@matronics.com,
and@matronics.com, question@matronics.com, mark@matronics.com
--> Yak-List message posted by: PSalter@aol.com
Match:#41
Message: #1071 From: _PSalter@aol.com_ (mailto:PSalter@aol.com)
(http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=1723504?KEYS=phil_&_warbird?LISTNAME=Y
ak?HITNUMBER=41?SERIAL=04500913708?SHOWBUTTONS=NO)
I wrote Peter Moll of the WoA and attached is his reply on whether or not
they consider the Yak 52 is a "Warbird."
The argument is now over hopefully.
Phil
From: Pete Moll <_pmoll@eaa.org_ (mailto:pmoll@eaa.org) >
Subject: RE: Definition of Warbird
We still consider the Yak 52 to be a warbird. According to our by-laws, any
aircraft that was used by the military or represents one that saw military
service can be considered a warbird.
My investigation also revealed that the Romanian Air Force is using the Yak
52.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: _PSalter@aol.com_ (mailto:PSalter@aol.com) [mailto:PSalter@aol.com]
Subject: Re: Definition of Warbird
The Yak Pilots Club is having an ongoing battle whether or not the Yak52 is
a
"Warbird." The club has members with the Chinese CJ6 and any Yak built
aircraft.
My understanding is that N. Korea purchased 20 recently and Vietnam also
bought 12 a couple of years back. The Russians did not have the Yak52 in
the
military but used them in the civilian training corps.
Can you help any further?
Thanks
Phil Salter
Message 2
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| Subject: | What is a warbird? Not Again!!!! Peter Moll from |
WoA's answer.
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Peter,
This thread started by asking if the RV7a is a warbird as there are
currently 90 of them in use by the Nigerian airforce as primary trainers.
What would happen if they all showed up at warbirds ? Then the obvious
question what about the Yak 52W an d TW models ?
I just think it would be very appropriate for an EXPERIMENTAL constructed
aircraft was recognized as a true warbird and an EXPERIMENTAL aircraft
association event.
BTW I have never nor do I intend on owning an RV.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of PSalter@aol.com
SUBJ_HAS_SPACES@matronics.com; Subject@matronics.com;
contains@matronics.com; lots@matronics.com; of@matronics.com;
white@matronics.com; space@matronics.com; 0.51@matronics.com;
PLING_QUERY@matronics.com; Subject@matronics.com; has@matronics.com;
exclamation@matronics.com; mark@matronics.com; and@matronics.com;
question@matronics.com; mark@matronics.com
Subject: Yak-List: What is a warbird? Not Again!!!! Peter Moll from
WoA's answer.
--> Yak-List message posted by: PSalter@aol.com
Match:#41
Message: #1071 From: _PSalter@aol.com_ (mailto:PSalter@aol.com)
(http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=1723504?KEYS=phi
l_&_warbird?LISTNAME=Y
ak?HITNUMBER=41?SERIAL=04500913708?SHOWBUTTONS=NO)
I wrote Peter Moll of the WoA and attached is his reply on whether or not
they consider the Yak 52 is a "Warbird."
The argument is now over hopefully.
Phil
From: Pete Moll <_pmoll@eaa.org_ (mailto:pmoll@eaa.org) >
Subject: RE: Definition of Warbird
We still consider the Yak 52 to be a warbird. According to our by-laws, any
aircraft that was used by the military or represents one that saw military
service can be considered a warbird.
My investigation also revealed that the Romanian Air Force is using the
Yak
52.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: _PSalter@aol.com_ (mailto:PSalter@aol.com) [mailto:PSalter@aol.com]
Subject: Re: Definition of Warbird
The Yak Pilots Club is having an ongoing battle whether or not the Yak52 is
a
"Warbird." The club has members with the Chinese CJ6 and any Yak built
aircraft.
My understanding is that N. Korea purchased 20 recently and Vietnam also
bought 12 a couple of years back. The Russians did not have the Yak52 in
the
military but used them in the civilian training corps.
Can you help any further?
Thanks
Phil Salter
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: What is a warbird? Not Again!!!! Peter Moll from |
WoA's answer.
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
Thank you Phil. About once a year for the last "ump-teen" years, this issue
has to be put to bed.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <PSalter@aol.com>
<SUBJ_HAS_SPACES@matronics.com>; <Subject@matronics.com>;
<contains@matronics.com>; <lots@matronics.com>; <of@matronics.com>;
<white@matronics.com>; <space@matronics.com>; <0.51@matronics.com>;
<PLING_QUERY@matronics.com>; <Subject@matronics.com>; <has@matronics.com>;
<exclamation@matronics.com>; <mark@matronics.com>; <and@matronics.com>;
<question@matronics.com>; <mark@matronics.com>
Subject: Yak-List: What is a warbird? Not Again!!!! Peter Moll from WoA's
answer.
> --> Yak-List message posted by: PSalter@aol.com
>
>
> Match:#41
>
> Message: #1071 From: _PSalter@aol.com_ (mailto:PSalter@aol.com)
> Date: Jul 10, 2000 Subject: _Fwd: Definition of Warbird_
>
(http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=1723504?KEYS=phi
l_&_warbird?LISTNAME=Y
> ak?HITNUMBER=41?SERIAL=04500913708?SHOWBUTTONS=NO)
>
>
> I wrote Peter Moll of the WoA and attached is his reply on whether or not
> they consider the Yak 52 is a "Warbird."
>
> The argument is now over hopefully.
>
> Phil
>
>
> From: Pete Moll <_pmoll@eaa.org_ (mailto:pmoll@eaa.org) >
> Subject: RE: Definition of Warbird
> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:21:58 -0500
>
> We still consider the Yak 52 to be a warbird. According to our by-laws,
any
> aircraft that was used by the military or represents one that saw
military
> service can be considered a warbird.
> My investigation also revealed that the Romanian Air Force is using the
Yak
> 52.
>
> Pete
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: _PSalter@aol.com_ (mailto:PSalter@aol.com)
[mailto:PSalter@aol.com]
> Subject: Re: Definition of Warbird
>
>
> The Yak Pilots Club is having an ongoing battle whether or not the Yak52
is
> a
> "Warbird." The club has members with the Chinese CJ6 and any Yak built
> aircraft.
>
> My understanding is that N. Korea purchased 20 recently and Vietnam also
> bought 12 a couple of years back. The Russians did not have the Yak52 in
> the
> military but used them in the civilian training corps.
>
> Can you help any further?
>
> Thanks
>
> Phil Salter
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Instrument panel |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kelley Monroe" <kelmonroe@comcast.net>
I am looking to buy a stock front center instrument panel for a CJ. Doug Sapp
is out of them.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: What is a warbird? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
I really recommend that all Red Star pilots read the
book FULCRUM by Mig-29 pilot and defector Alexander
Zuyev. In this book Alex tells of being accepted at
the Armavir Higher Aviation academy and being given
orientation rides in the Yak-52. I had the honor of
speaking with Alex once and it was interesting to
learn that while orientation rides were given in the
Yak, the pilot canidates were actually soloed in the
L-29. I don't remember if the book specifically names
the -52, but I remember enough of our conversation
that it was the -52 that he (and other cadets) were
flown in. At the time Armavir was a PVO (Air Defense
Force/ interceptor) Academy that was later taken over
by the VVS (Regular Soviet, Expeditionary capable) Air
Force. As far as I'm concerned this makes the Y-52 as
much of a warbird as any T-6, -34 or -28 in trainer
markings.
Zuyev was killed a few years back in a L-39 accident
but was a great guy. After defecting in the-29 to
Turkey he gave briefings to U.S. VF and VFA squadrons
and was able to dispel many myths about Soviet Fighter
Doctrine.....Info that we were able to use with great
effectiveness in Desert Storm 1. Over a few brewski's
at the Hornet's nest at MCAS Beaufort, S.C. it was
apparent that fighting 3rd world air forces was one
thing, but if we ever actually tangled with the VVS it
would be no easy victory. This has been borne out in
our recent experiences in exercises with the Indian
Air Force and their SU-27's, they gave some Eagle
drivers a hosing about a year ago in exercises.
Interestingly enough, our only Air to Air loss in DS1
was a classic soviet set-up with a Mig -25 that got
one of our F-18's whacked. Somebody didn't listen and
Navy Lt. Scott Speicher paid the ultimate price.
What was this post supposed to be about? man do I
rattle on sometimes...- Robert Starnes
--- Dean Courtney <deancourtney696@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney"
> <deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
>
> Not sure DOSAFF inventory will do to pass Yak 18,
> 50, 52, or 55's as
> warbirds. DOSAFF was a government function, but not
> a military one. Kinda
> like the CAP meets the boyscouts, and the government
> supplies the toys.
> DOSAFF had sharp shooting clubs, sailing clubs, aero
> clubs, parachuting
> clubs, ect. All the neat stuff to attract young
> people so they could be
> indocnated in the "parties" way of thinking early.
> Military pilots did fly
> DOSAFF aircraft to keep thier acro qualifications,
> or just for fun if they
> were a favored member of the political scene.
> If some one ever looks at our DOSAFF conection in
> search of a "warbird" rite
> of passage, we'll be parked next to the CAP's Cessna
> 182, or the Forest
> Service's Super Cub's!
> Cheers,
> Dean Courtney
>
> P.S. DOSAFF translated means: Voluntary Society for
> the assistance of Army,
> Navy, and Airforce.
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
On Jan 22, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> We have begun a rotation schedule to overhaul gear uplocks and
> actuators and brake
> valves in our fleet to help prevent mechanical failure.
This is a good thing! I wrote awhile back about the condition of the
"innards" of the landing gear when I totally disassembled mine during
the initial restoration. Gang, our gear is robust and pretty reliable.
HOWEVER, there's a pretty high probability that if they haven't been
completely torn down and rebuilt state side that it hasn't been done in
decades, if ever!
My airplane was built in '79 and put into service in '82, had less than
2300 TT. Yet when we disassembled the gear it was pretty scary.
Nothing mechanically wrong (yet) other than the seals, bearings, and
chevrons needed replacing, but they were horribly gummy/dirty/etc. and
could not have possibly been functioning well at all.
Pay a few thousand now to get your gear in good shape, or live with the
very real and growing potential of having a mechanical failure (it's
happening at an *increasing* rate). Which will not only cost way more
than a few thousand for you in the long run, it may just be the straw
that breaks the insurance camel's back. Something we can all live
without....
Hope to see you at All Red Star 2005 as we will be having a seminar on
gear maintenance, operation, and overhaul...
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Western Regional Coordinator
RedStar Pilots Association
(949) 300-5510
www.flyredstar.org
"Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: What is a warbird? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Terry Calloway <yakdrv@yahoo.com>
Gus,
Also you should point out Yaks are not being built in the US.
Smoke
Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net> wrote:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser"
Peter,
This thread started by asking if the RV7a is a warbird as there are
currently 90 of them in use by the Nigerian airforce as primary trainers.
What would happen if they all showed up at warbirds ? Then the obvious
question what about the Yak 52W an d TW models ?
I just think it would be very appropriate for an EXPERIMENTAL constructed
aircraft was recognized as a true warbird and an EXPERIMENTAL aircraft
association event.
BTW I have never nor do I intend on owning an RV.
Gus
---------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: 20W50 vs 20W60 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: PeteAbbott@aol.com
Our bulk supplier stocks 20W50 but not the 20W60. When I bought my Yak 52
the owner supplied me with several gallons of 20W60. Never having owned a round
engine, I thought this would last for awhile.
What do you guys think about the difference between the two. The wholesale
supplier will order me the 60 but I have to purchase a larger amount while he
stocks the 50.
What do you think????????
Pete Abbott
N852GC Yak-52
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: What is a warbird? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Neither are the quickbuild RV's. Many are built in the Czech Republic.
Isn't that near where the L-39's are built? ;)
Low Pass (Bryan)
definitely do not archive
>Gus,
>Also you should point out Yaks are not being built in the US.
>Smoke
>
>Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net> wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gus Fraser"
>
>Peter,
>This thread started by asking if the RV7a is a warbird as there are
>currently 90 of them in use by the Nigerian airforce as primary trainers.
>What would happen if they all showed up at warbirds ? Then the obvious
>question what about the Yak 52W an d TW models ?
>
>I just think it would be very appropriate for an EXPERIMENTAL constructed
>aircraft was recognized as a true warbird and an EXPERIMENTAL aircraft
>association event.
>
>BTW I have never nor do I intend on owning an RV.
>
>Gus
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: What is a warbird? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 1/23/2005 4:05:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rv_8pilot@hotmail.com writes:
>Peter,
>This thread started by asking if the RV7a is a warbird as there are
>currently 90 of them in use by the Nigerian airforce as primary trainers.
>What would happen if they all showed up at warbirds ? Then the obvious
>question what about the Yak 52W an d TW models ?
>
>I just think it would be very appropriate for an EXPERIMENTAL constructed
>aircraft was recognized as a true warbird and an EXPERIMENTAL aircraft
>association event.
>
>BTW I have never nor do I intend on owning an RV.
What if these airplanes are actually owned by a private company that is
contracted by the Nigerian airforce to provide training? Does that make ANY
airplane a "Warbird"? Having been there (though a long time ago) I could never
take
anything serious about that part of the world.
Pappy
Message 11
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| Subject: | What is a warbird? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Robert;
Your post was interesting in a number of ways. For one, it illustrates
the philosophical difference towards pilot training between the US and
other countries. When we, here in the US, think of a qualified warbird,
we think in terms of an aircraft issued to and used by the uniformed
services in some kind of structured program towards pilot training or in
combat. I think we need to consider the "INTENT" of other countries'
training programs. Not all countries operate as we do, so we have be a
little more intelligent in how we determine what constitutes a warbird.
If a country is run by the state and private ownership of aircraft is
impossible then other forms of pilot training come into existence. The
DOSAFF training program is funded by the state with the "intention" to
recruit, select and train military pilots using an organization very
dissimilar to how we operate in the US.
To qualify for flight training in the US you need a collage degree and
20-20 eyesight. With a DOSAFF like program it seems to me it's possible
to select candidates with real ability, not just those who's daddy had
enough money to send them to collage or who had political connections. I
wish we had a similar program here in the US. Look at like baseball,
basketball or football recruiting (pretty smart, eh?). You can select
the best candidates. The bottom line is that DOSAFF was used by the
state to select and train military pilots and they used the YAK-52 to do
it. The YAK-52 was/is the equivalent of the T-34 (and superior in most
respects) even though it was used in a state run program unlike what we
are accustomed to here in the US.
It's impossible to draw straight parallels between the US and other
countries pilot training programs. The YAK-52 is a warbird even though
it's "use" doesn't fit with some people's "UNITED STATES" concept of
what constitutes a warbird. Not all countries operate like we do. To not
understand these differences is a result of shortsightedness......or
maybe they have an axe to grind?
Frank
YAK-52
N9110M
L-71
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Starnes
Subject: Re: Yak-List: What is a warbird?
--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
I really recommend that all Red Star pilots read the
book FULCRUM by Mig-29 pilot and defector Alexander
Zuyev. In this book Alex tells of being accepted at
the Armavir Higher Aviation academy and being given
orientation rides in the Yak-52. I had the honor of
speaking with Alex once and it was interesting to
learn that while orientation rides were given in the
Yak, the pilot canidates were actually soloed in the
L-29. I don't remember if the book specifically names
the -52, but I remember enough of our conversation
that it was the -52 that he (and other cadets) were
flown in. At the time Armavir was a PVO (Air Defense
Force/ interceptor) Academy that was later taken over
by the VVS (Regular Soviet, Expeditionary capable) Air
Force. As far as I'm concerned this makes the Y-52 as
much of a warbird as any T-6, -34 or -28 in trainer
markings.
Zuyev was killed a few years back in a L-39 accident
but was a great guy. After defecting in the-29 to
Turkey he gave briefings to U.S. VF and VFA squadrons
and was able to dispel many myths about Soviet Fighter Doctrine.....Info
that we were able to use with great effectiveness in Desert Storm 1.
Over a few brewski's at the Hornet's nest at MCAS Beaufort, S.C. it was
apparent that fighting 3rd world air forces was one thing, but if we
ever actually tangled with the VVS it would be no easy victory. This has
been borne out in our recent experiences in exercises with the Indian
Air Force and their SU-27's, they gave some Eagle drivers a hosing about
a year ago in exercises. Interestingly enough, our only Air to Air loss
in DS1 was a classic soviet set-up with a Mig -25 that got one of our
F-18's whacked. Somebody didn't listen and Navy Lt. Scott Speicher paid
the ultimate price. What was this post supposed to be about? man do I
rattle on sometimes...- Robert Starnes
--- Dean Courtney <deancourtney696@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney"
> <deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
>
> Not sure DOSAFF inventory will do to pass Yak 18,
> 50, 52, or 55's as
> warbirds. DOSAFF was a government function, but not
> a military one. Kinda
> like the CAP meets the boyscouts, and the government
> supplies the toys.
> DOSAFF had sharp shooting clubs, sailing clubs, aero
> clubs, parachuting
> clubs, ect. All the neat stuff to attract young
> people so they could be
> indocnated in the "parties" way of thinking early.
> Military pilots did fly
> DOSAFF aircraft to keep thier acro qualifications,
> or just for fun if they
> were a favored member of the political scene.
> If some one ever looks at our DOSAFF conection in
> search of a "warbird" rite
> of passage, we'll be parked next to the CAP's Cessna
> 182, or the Forest
> Service's Super Cub's!
> Cheers,
> Dean Courtney
>
> P.S. DOSAFF translated means: Voluntary Society for
> the assistance of Army,
> Navy, and Airforce.
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Yak-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Message 12
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| Subject: | RPA Store Shipments, websites |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Sam Sax" <cd001633@mindspring.com>
Drew,
Thank you for this (and all other) posts regarding our web site and other
development in the RPA.
As a former CIO, I know what goes into building and managing a complex web
site, and especially one that incorporates E-commerce - major kudos to Deon
for undertaking this monumental task and for keeping putting in the
time/effort. In this context, I think its important to recognize ALL the
great guys and gals that volunteer their time, brain power and elbow grease
(and money) to get the RPA to where it is today - there are so many, some we
know well but most are "unknown soldiers" who work hard in their spare time
for the benefit of all of us in the RPA.
Lets face it, volunteering for a "visible position" of responsibility is a
thankless "job" - in general, many who can not / will not volunteer are
quick to criticize and complain. Yet, others, even though are unable to
volunteer, do make good and constructive comments and suggestions and when
they can, they roll up their sleeves and help. As to myself, I continue to
feel guilty and frustrated by my personal situation/reality where I (very
unfortunately) can't make the time to volunteer "for the cause" as much as I
wish I could - nevertheless, I am envious, greatly admire and thank those
who can and do!!
Sam Sax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Drew Blahnick
Subject: Yak-List: RPA Store Shipments, websites
--> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
Folks,
For those who have late online store shipments, I'm as bummed as you over
this - I was told 15 orders went out today, but thats not the solution.
This is a volunteer position and the person shipping goods is taking on a
second job of her own - I may have a solution, a retired member and his
wife have volunteered for this position, I hope this will improve the
situation over the long haul. The store was created at the expense of
immense volunteer man hours, we have several items in the pipeline, but can
not move forward until on time shipping is an absolute given...
Also, on the web, we have the new sign-in system that uses your email and
your personal password, it should be working for all current members. Any
issues with this email us at admin@flyredstar.org. I've added a Flight
Planning room that allows members to do everything from check weather,
notams, TFRs, plan routes, check sunset, set your watch and order hotels and
cars from one web page (operations), updated Event Planning (events) and
the Warbird Initial and Review rooms (operations) are coming along. But
it's not all work, in the mean time here in Tamiami it was a 4 ship fast,
two ship TAC and a front seat T-28 fam - and heading to MIA to jump over to
LA for L-29 school - Thanks Sam for the seat!
If you use a 800X600 screen resolution to view flyredstar, you may see the
center area of the webpage "slide down" out of view, so that you have to
scroll down to read the info - this is not an issue with 1024 screen
resolutions - I'm working with Deon on the fix. This dissmembering of the
center content of these web pages for 800X600 users is not acceptable and
will be fixed.
Direct, constructive feedback often reveals areas we need to shore up -
technological problems are solved by this process - please email us at
admin@flyredstar.org
Thanks,
Drew
Drew Blahnick
RPA President
---------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 2nd annual "Dust off in the Desert" |
schrick@pacbell.net, kelleyts@3maw.usmc.mil, KingCJ6@aol.com,
rvfltd@televar.com, giery@cox.net, drewblahnick@hotmail.com,
hairball192@yahoo.com, ronlee@rjlpartners.com, Ltd2Endo@aol.com,
slicka@compuserve.com, thierry@locard.net, craigte@msn.com,
michael_lloyd@standardandpoors.com, James.Johnson@holloman.af.mil,
RTichacek@cox.net, kfrost@isquared.com, firedog@visi.com, CVenden@aol.com,
yakjock@msn.com, AceHI@hawaii.rr.com, Cobra1444@aol.com,
darrell@garyhouse.net, tjohnson@cannonaviation.com, f4ffm2@adelphia.net,
wwbender@earthlink.net, skymark@redshift.com, jefflinebaugh@earthlink.net,
Jjzecherle@aol.com, Dkzeissner@aol.com, medford007@qwest.net
--> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
I'm in. ...Blitz
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 2nd annual "Dust off in the Desert" |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com>
A little far from Atlanta, or we'd be there!
Sure sounds like a good time, Barry.
Shane, how about a "Swim in the Swamp" for us SE guys??
Maybe then we could meet the Desert boys half way one day for some fun.
Jay
> From: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
> Reply-To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:48:32 -0800
> To: YAK USA LIST <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: 2nd annual "Dust off in the Desert"
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
>
> Gang,
>
> Looks like the 2005 flying season could be the best in a long time!
> Looking forward to the DVT get together Feb. 4-6. It will be a good
> opportunity to knock the rust off and clear the cob webs. A month
> after DVT is the "2nd Annual Dust Off in the Desert" Advanced Tactical
> clinic in Palm Springs. This clinic is for FAST card holders (or
> military equivalent) to expand their flying skills and fun through 3
> separate phases of instruction.
>
> In the past the clinic has been a seamless progression from Tactical
> Formation through to full up BFM (Basic Fighter Maneuvering 1v1)...with
> a long term goal of progressing to ACM (Air Combat Maneuvering, or 2 v.
> 1 and beyond). Through the development of the program we have
> recognized there are a lot of folks who are interested in Tactical
> formation, or Tac From, and Tail Chase, but not the hard core, heavy G,
> environment of full up ACM. We completely understand...and so does my
> chiropractor! Because of this (and our desire to make the group as big
> as possible so we can attract that extra attention all us alpha males
> are looking for!) we have developed a separate but connected program of
> 3 distinct training blocks (Tac Form, Tail Chase, and BFM/ACM).
>
> ____________________________________
>
> By way of review, here are what the 3 different blocks offer:
>
> Tactical Formation: Developed to provide mutual support in the combat
> environment, Tactical Formation gives great maneuverability to a
> flight, and also gives you defined positions and maneuvers ( = fun!).
> Tactical Formation is more dynamic than parade formation as it
> introduces you to closure rates, and develops important situational
> awareness (SA) and comm procedures that will benefit you in all types
> of flying. Every FAST rated pilot should become familiar with Tac
> Form!
>
> Tail Chase: This exercise is used in a limited fashion in FAST
> training. The concepts of lead, lag, and pure pursuit are covered, in
> addition to gun tracking and in trail aerobatics (gentlemen's style!).
> If you enjoy light aerobatics, this is a must!
>
> BFM/ACM: If Tac Form and Tail Chase leave you wanting more....G's,
> that is!....welcome to the wonderful and demanding world of BFM/ACM.
> This program is designed to introduce and advance pilots through Basic
> Fighter Maneuvering to Air Combat Maneuvering. In this block you will
> be introduced to more standardized comm, "the merge" and cooperative
> bogey engagements to fulfill training objectives of attaining position
> in the Weapons Employment Zone (WEZ), maneuvering in the WEZ, safety
> considerations, developing SA, defensive tactics, etc. Once these are
> mastered the fight becomes a neutral engagement and progresses from the
> horizontal to the vertical. Graduates advanced to 2 v. 1
>
> The ultimate goal in all of this is to get the point of an Air War
> Simulation, which is not what you might picture at first (a huge
> furball!). Air War Sim is a very well orchestrated chess game in the
> air where everyone has a role to play and you don't do things you're
> not comfortable doing. You'll pick your role (strike, escort, bad guy,
> FAC, etc.) and teams will compete using a scoring system. To get there
> we need guys to get familiar and proficient with the tactical
> environment, which is what these clinics are designed to do!
> _____________________________________
>
> What I need now, is a show of hands on who is planning to attend the
> 2nd Annual Dust Off in the Desert. Again, it's March 3-6 (ground
> school the morning of Friday the 4th). It will be hosted by the Palm
> Springs Air Museum, parking on their showcase ramp, free admission, and
> $.50/gal discount on fuel. Great event to bring the wife/S.O. as Palm
> Springs is beautiful this time of year and the shopping/dining is
> great. Please respond ASAP.... and we look forward to seeing you where
> the air is clear and the skies are warm!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Barry
>
>
> Barry Hancock
> Western Regional Coordinator
> RedStar Pilots Association
> (949) 300-5510
> www.flyredstar.org
> "Communism - Lousy Politics, Great Airplanes"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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