Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:30 AM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Stephen Fox)
2. 05:37 AM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Gus Fraser)
3. 11:20 AM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Jorgen Nielsen)
4. 12:02 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 12:24 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Cj6av8r@aol.com)
6. 12:30 PM - CJ6 Tail slides (Lance Robb)
7. 12:32 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Jorgen Nielsen)
8. 12:50 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (John W. Cox)
9. 01:05 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Ernest Martinez)
10. 02:16 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (John W. Cox)
11. 02:50 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Ernest Martinez)
12. 03:09 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (A. Dennis Savarese)
13. 03:10 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (A. Dennis Savarese)
14. 03:23 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (A. Dennis Savarese)
15. 03:52 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (John W. Cox)
16. 03:57 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Ernest Martinez)
17. 04:03 PM - Engine Oil Heater pads (Walt Murphy)
18. 04:23 PM - Re: Engine Oil Heater pads (Doug Sapp)
19. 04:32 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Ben Marsh)
20. 04:34 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Ben Marsh)
21. 05:01 PM - MMO, Again, again, again... (cpayne@joimail.com)
22. 05:12 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
23. 05:20 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (A. Dennis Savarese)
24. 05:20 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (A. Dennis Savarese)
25. 05:36 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
26. 05:38 PM - 18t (JOE)
27. 06:18 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Angus Fraser)
28. 06:26 PM - Re: CJ6 Tail slides (Angus Fraser)
29. 06:55 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Frank Haertlein)
30. 07:19 PM - Re: CJ6 Tail slides (Frank Haertlein)
31. 07:44 PM - Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Steven A Johnson)
32. 08:17 PM - Re: CJ6 Tail slides (A. Dennis Savarese)
33. 08:19 PM - Re: YAK-List: CJ6 Tail slides (Frank Stelwagon)
34. 08:21 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Frank Stelwagon)
35. 08:30 PM - Re: CJ6 Tail slides (Jim Shafer)
36. 08:36 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (A. Dennis Savarese)
37. 08:41 PM - Re: CJ6 Tail slides (A. Dennis Savarese)
38. 09:46 PM - Re: CJ6 Tail slides (D Zeman)
39. 09:53 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again (Ron Davis)
40. 11:29 PM - CJ Tail Slides (egon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
On 2/2/05 9:18 PM, "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
> Add to oil. 1 qt per oil change
> Add to gas. 6 oz. per 15 gallons. Be religious about using it too.
> Interpolate what is needed for each tank each time you fuel up.
> Available at most Wal-Mart's for $9.84 per gallon. Least expensive place to
> buy it.
> Dennis
Dennis & Mark -
Thanks for the help.
Steve
Message 2
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Mark have you considered that the two may be related. The reason that you
have fouling and low cht may be that you are running rich.
Gus
...... Original Message .......
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:48:34 -0500 Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>
>Dennis's values are accurate... just adding my 1 cent.
>
>Just in case you ever worry about putting too MUCH in: I have used twice
>that amount in the fuel for the last 250 hours with no ill results that I
>can see. I.E., I use about 1/2 quart for every 28 gallons or so, which is
>way over the recommended dosage. I had rather serious lead fouling on
>cylinders 9,1 & 2, mainly because the cyl. head temps. are way too cool on
>my engine ... "why" is another discussion. Suffice it to say that running
>this high an amount of MMO 'seems' to have cut my lead fouling problems
down
>significantly. This belief has also been supported by inspection of the
>spark plugs which now have little to NO lead fouling in two years of
>operation. So if you slip.. and slurp in a little too much... it's no big
>deal.
>
>I put one quart in with every oil change, as Dennis recommends, and when I
>get close to around 20 hours, I put another two quarts in for one flight...
>and then drain and change the oil.
>
>Mark
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com]
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
><DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
>Add to oil. 1 qt per oil change
>Add to gas. 6 oz. per 15 gallons. Be religious about using it too.
>Interpolate what is needed for each tank each time you fuel up.
>Available at most Wal-Mart's for $9.84 per gallon. Least expensive place
to
>buy it.
>Dennis
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stephen Fox" <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>>
>> Ok I know this subject has probably been covered to death, but as a new
>Yak
>> 52 owner who just finished up transition and who joined the list at the
>very
>> tail end of the last discussion about MMO. Here=B9s the question add to
>oil,
>> add to gas or add to both and in what quantities.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve Fox
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
And this time I can't help but comment: Fitting nomex suit in
preparation for on board fire...
I have always held the belief that items such as MMO and their ilk are
like snake oil. And I have heard many pseudo scientific stories, etc.
(About many things, including MMO). Oil companies spend billions on
research, patents expire after n years, surely they would be on the
bandwagon (as I guess they are in terms of additive packages), you would
also get "generic" MMO, etc. If these things really work as advertised
the use thereof would become a mandatory standard additive, saving
countries billions of dollars in oil importation, being more competitive
globally, etc.
It's a bit like diet pills - people swear they work. Dieting is a
multi-million dollar industry in many countries. Try pick up a fashion
/ ladies magazine that does not have an article about dieting. But the
real truth is simple - eat like a pig and you get fat. Eat reasonably
and you don't.
I mean for goodness sake, just look at the name : "Marvel Mystery Oil".
I don't like mysterious things in my engine, and have managed just fine
without it up to now.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
If you have ever had an M14 "cough" on short final when you advance the
throttle, adding MMO to the fuel reduces the symptoms AND the higher flow of
adrenalin when it occurs
.
Once again, I will quote our high speed/high performance expert with the M14
powered CJ, Craig Payne. "Take a walk down the pits at the Reno air races
and see how many gallons of MMO there are lying around in each of the pits.
You can bet they're not drinking the stuff." I rest my case......
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
<jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> And this time I can't help but comment: Fitting nomex suit in
> preparation for on board fire...
>
> I have always held the belief that items such as MMO and their ilk are
> like snake oil. And I have heard many pseudo scientific stories, etc.
> (About many things, including MMO). Oil companies spend billions on
> research, patents expire after n years, surely they would be on the
> bandwagon (as I guess they are in terms of additive packages), you would
> also get "generic" MMO, etc. If these things really work as advertised
> the use thereof would become a mandatory standard additive, saving
> countries billions of dollars in oil importation, being more competitive
> globally, etc.
>
> It's a bit like diet pills - people swear they work. Dieting is a
> multi-million dollar industry in many countries. Try pick up a fashion
> / ladies magazine that does not have an article about dieting. But the
> real truth is simple - eat like a pig and you get fat. Eat reasonably
> and you don't.
>
> I mean for goodness sake, just look at the name : "Marvel Mystery Oil".
>
>
> I don't like mysterious things in my engine, and have managed just fine
> without it up to now.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Cj6av8r@aol.com
Add to oil. 1 qt per oil change
Dennis could you clarify your statement. Is that added to the new clean oil?
I've used the method of adding the 1 qt at 1 to 2 hours before changing the
oil.
Thanks, Mark
do not archive
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lance Robb" <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
Hi Guys,
I'll introduce myself, I'm Lance Robb and I fly a CJ6 at the North
Queensland warbirds at Mareeba in Far North Queensland Australia. I have
been flying our CJ for a little over 12 Months now and find it a thrill to
fly. Since starting to fly aerobatics with it I have been steadily
increasing my number of aeros and am wanting to know if there is anyone out
there who has any comments on tail sliding the CJ6. I don't see there should
be a problem but our chief pilot has suggested I ask those who have probably
tried it first to get their feed back.
Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Lance
Message 7
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Hi Dennis - the fun starts...
Coughing as you describe may be attributed to an incorrect acceleration
jet, normally over enrichening the mixture? Is it not better to fix the
real problem and set the carb up right?
Surely if MMO "fixes" this it means the combustion properties are being
adversely affected, out of design spec?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A.
> Dennis Savarese
> Sent: 03 February 2005 22:01 PM
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> --> <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
> If you have ever had an M14 "cough" on short final when you
> advance the throttle, adding MMO to the fuel reduces the
> symptoms AND the higher flow of adrenalin when it occurs .
> Once again, I will quote our high speed/high performance
> expert with the M14 powered CJ, Craig Payne. "Take a walk
> down the pits at the Reno air races and see how many gallons
> of MMO there are lying around in each of the pits. You can
> bet they're not drinking the stuff." I rest my case...... Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
> <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
> >
> > And this time I can't help but comment: Fitting nomex suit in
> > preparation for on board fire...
> >
> > I have always held the belief that items such as MMO and
> their ilk are
> > like snake oil. And I have heard many pseudo scientific
> stories, etc.
> > (About many things, including MMO). Oil companies spend
> billions on
> > research, patents expire after n years, surely they would be on the
> > bandwagon (as I guess they are in terms of additive packages), you
> > would also get "generic" MMO, etc. If these things really work as
> > advertised the use thereof would become a mandatory
> standard additive,
> > saving countries billions of dollars in oil importation, being more
> > competitive globally, etc.
> >
> > It's a bit like diet pills - people swear they work. Dieting is a
> > multi-million dollar industry in many countries. Try pick up a
> > fashion / ladies magazine that does not have an article
> about dieting.
> > But the real truth is simple - eat like a pig and you get fat. Eat
> > reasonably and you don't.
> >
> > I mean for goodness sake, just look at the name : "Marvel Mystery
> > Oil".
> >
> >
> > I don't like mysterious things in my engine, and have managed just
> > fine without it up to now.
> >
> >
>
>
> =========
> Matronics Forums.
> =========
> =========
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Don't be so sure... Just change the Jet A reference below to MMO for Jorgen
Nielsen's sake and read the below posting from the pits at Reno.
[Pappy and Craig were a couple of drinking buddies who worked as aircraft
mechanics in Atlanta. One day the airport was fogged in with their CJ's
under cover and they were stuck in the hangar with nothing to do.
Pappy said, "Man, I wish we had something to drink!"
Craig says, "Me too. Y'know, I've heard you can drink jet fuel and get a
buzz. You wanna try it?"
So they pour themselves a couple of glasses of high octane hooch and get
completely smashed.
The next morning Craig wakes up and is surprised at how good he feels. In
fact he feels GREAT! NO hangover! NO bad side effects. Nothing!
Then the phone rings . its Pappy.
Pappy says, "Hey, how do you feel this morning?"
Craig says, "I feel great. How about you?"
Pappy says, "I feel great, too. You don't have a hangover?"
Craig says, "No that jet fuel is great stuff -- no hangover, nothing. We
ought to do this more often."
"Yeah, well there's just one thing."
"What's that?"
"Have you farted yet?"
"No "
"Well, DON'T, 'cause I'm now in PHOENIX]
Fly safe guys.
John Cox - grounded in Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
If you have ever had an M14 "cough" on short final when you advance the
throttle, adding MMO to the fuel reduces the symptoms AND the higher flow of
adrenalin when it occurs
.
Once again, I will quote our high speed/high performance expert with the M14
powered CJ, Craig Payne. "Take a walk down the pits at the Reno air races
and see how many gallons of MMO there are lying around in each of the pits.
You can bet they're not drinking the stuff." I rest my case......
Dennis
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Heres a long read but its informative. It makes some rather good
observations on oil additives. MMO is treated a lot better than the
other treatments, but counters a previous post which claimed that
putting in too much MMO will not cause harm. Apparently MMO is a
solvent and can dilute the lubricating properties of your oil.
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html
Ernie
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:00:53 -0600, A. Dennis Savarese
<DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
> If you have ever had an M14 "cough" on short final when you advance the
> throttle, adding MMO to the fuel reduces the symptoms AND the higher flow of
Message 10
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Ernie, in a previous life I marketed a product regionally called TX-7 which
had to overcome the exact article you referenced below from 1992 "Snake
Oil". It seems a number of American Airline pilots had locked onto territory
franchises for a product out of Texas (TX7). This was made by a firm whose
specialty was Teflon coating of high wear/contact parts on NASCAR and IROC
automobiles, then to an oil additive they produced. Quantifiable and severe
field application if at all comparable to aircraft usage.
To cut to the chase, that product was milled so fine that it
electrostatically stayed in suspension - others settle out, allowed the base
carrier to clean the piston ring grooves and provided additional volumetric
seal. And did not receive threats from Dupont. The base carrier was Mobil
One synthetic. A lengthy series of expensive dyno tests documented the
added value, increased horsepower and extended life with no such Snake Oil
connotation. However, at $13.00 a quart RETAIL, a prudent pilot would
change his stock oil more frequently, regularly have oil analysis done by
the same firm repetitively and always bring the oil up to minimum temp and
keep it below upper limits during any flight operation. I am surprised how
many don't.
As an A & P mechanic, I sworn to the FAA to never endorse any additive
without manufacturer authorization (remember those millions and trial
attorneys). That said, once you cross the line from certified aircraft a
compelling body of aircraft owners and maintenance personnel are regularly
throwing empty maroon containers away around the country. I await any
definitive printed data on accelerated wear, increased temperature or fuel
flow constriction from those maroon container contents. Most probably the
opposite could be true.
My oil analysis reports (on motor vehicles) do show a slight decrease in
viscosity and a lowering of flashpoint but not to my concern. One Powerplant
went 364,000 miles before storage (still runs) and my current one (Daily
Driver) is at 225,000 miles with a glowing report last month. Copy available
on request. And yes, I have empty maroon containers in my auto garage.
I have tried a number of manufacturers and product types on recip engines.
The best products have always been within engine manufacturer guidelines.
The most valuable advise I have received to date was from Larry Schlasinger
at KOTW last year. Electric Engine Preheat. The first 60 seconds is 90% of
the engines total lifetime wear. That is short of running it out of oil.
Good luck with your winter flying and the valued discussion.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Heres a long read but its informative. It makes some rather good
observations on oil additives. MMO is treated a lot better than the
other treatments, but counters a previous post which claimed that
putting in too much MMO will not cause harm. Apparently MMO is a
solvent and can dilute the lubricating properties of your oil.
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html
Ernie
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:00:53 -0600, A. Dennis Savarese
<DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
> If you have ever had an M14 "cough" on short final when you advance the
> throttle, adding MMO to the fuel reduces the symptoms AND the higher flow
of
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I've been adding MMO to my fuel (not oil however) for the last 3
years. I'm ashamed to say that I've been blindly doing it on advice
from other pilots who swear by the stuff, rather than on any
conclusive research on my part.
I'm usually a skeptic, but even the article I posted really didnt
discount MMO, and praised it as a solvent/detergent (which already
exists in our oils), and other articles I've found attribute its
qualities as a top end lube and cleaner.
After reading the article however, I was impressed by one recurring
theme......The clever marketing guy who's name kept coming up when the
authors were researching this piece. Marketing may be the reason that
one sees all those empty containers in the pits at Reno, and doesnt
neccesarily mean that they're running the stuff in their engines.
Just a conspiracy theory to ponder :)
Ernie
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:07:38 -0800, John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Ernie, in a previous life I marketed a product regionally called TX-7 which
> had to overcome the exact article you referenced below from 1992 "Snake
> Oil". It seems a number of American Airline pilots had locked onto territory
> franchises for a product out of Texas (TX7). This was made by a firm whose
> specialty was Teflon coating of high wear/contact parts on NASCAR and IROC
> automobiles, then to an oil additive they produced. Quantifiable and severe
> field application if at all comparable to aircraft usage.
>
> To cut to the chase, that product was milled so fine that it
> electrostatically stayed in suspension - others settle out, allowed the base
> carrier to clean the piston ring grooves and provided additional volumetric
> seal. And did not receive threats from Dupont. The base carrier was Mobil
> One synthetic. A lengthy series of expensive dyno tests documented the
> added value, increased horsepower and extended life with no such Snake Oil
> connotation. However, at $13.00 a quart RETAIL, a prudent pilot would
> change his stock oil more frequently, regularly have oil analysis done by
> the same firm repetitively and always bring the oil up to minimum temp and
> keep it below upper limits during any flight operation. I am surprised how
> many don't.
>
> As an A & P mechanic, I sworn to the FAA to never endorse any additive
> without manufacturer authorization (remember those millions and trial
> attorneys). That said, once you cross the line from certified aircraft a
> compelling body of aircraft owners and maintenance personnel are regularly
> throwing empty maroon containers away around the country. I await any
> definitive printed data on accelerated wear, increased temperature or fuel
> flow constriction from those maroon container contents. Most probably the
> opposite could be true.
>
> My oil analysis reports (on motor vehicles) do show a slight decrease in
> viscosity and a lowering of flashpoint but not to my concern. One Powerplant
> went 364,000 miles before storage (still runs) and my current one (Daily
> Driver) is at 225,000 miles with a glowing report last month. Copy available
> on request. And yes, I have empty maroon containers in my auto garage.
>
> I have tried a number of manufacturers and product types on recip engines.
> The best products have always been within engine manufacturer guidelines.
> The most valuable advise I have received to date was from Larry Schlasinger
> at KOTW last year. Electric Engine Preheat. The first 60 seconds is 90% of
> the engines total lifetime wear. That is short of running it out of oil.
>
> Good luck with your winter flying and the valued discussion.
>
> John Cox
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Heres a long read but its informative. It makes some rather good
> observations on oil additives. MMO is treated a lot better than the
> other treatments, but counters a previous post which claimed that
> putting in too much MMO will not cause harm. Apparently MMO is a
> solvent and can dilute the lubricating properties of your oil.
>
> http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html
>
> Ernie
>
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:00:53 -0600, A. Dennis Savarese
> <DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
> >
> > If you have ever had an M14 "cough" on short final when you advance the
> > throttle, adding MMO to the fuel reduces the symptoms AND the higher flow
> of
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
Yes, I add it to the new, clean oil. Your method is just fine too.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: <Cj6av8r@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Cj6av8r@aol.com
>
> Add to oil. 1 qt per oil change
>
> Dennis could you clarify your statement. Is that added to the new clean
oil?
> I've used the method of adding the 1 qt at 1 to 2 hours before changing
the
> oil.
>
> Thanks, Mark
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
Correct, but try and find the jet kits.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
<jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> Hi Dennis - the fun starts...
>
> Coughing as you describe may be attributed to an incorrect acceleration
> jet, normally over enrichening the mixture? Is it not better to fix the
> real problem and set the carb up right?
>
> Surely if MMO "fixes" this it means the combustion properties are being
> adversely affected, out of design spec?
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A.
> > Dennis Savarese
> > Sent: 03 February 2005 22:01 PM
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> >
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> > --> <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
> >
> > If you have ever had an M14 "cough" on short final when you
> > advance the throttle, adding MMO to the fuel reduces the
> > symptoms AND the higher flow of adrenalin when it occurs .
> > Once again, I will quote our high speed/high performance
> > expert with the M14 powered CJ, Craig Payne. "Take a walk
> > down the pits at the Reno air races and see how many gallons
> > of MMO there are lying around in each of the pits. You can
> > bet they're not drinking the stuff." I rest my case...... Dennis
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jorgen Nielsen" <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
> > <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
> > >
> > > And this time I can't help but comment: Fitting nomex suit in
> > > preparation for on board fire...
> > >
> > > I have always held the belief that items such as MMO and
> > their ilk are
> > > like snake oil. And I have heard many pseudo scientific
> > stories, etc.
> > > (About many things, including MMO). Oil companies spend
> > billions on
> > > research, patents expire after n years, surely they would be on the
> > > bandwagon (as I guess they are in terms of additive packages), you
> > > would also get "generic" MMO, etc. If these things really work as
> > > advertised the use thereof would become a mandatory
> > standard additive,
> > > saving countries billions of dollars in oil importation, being more
> > > competitive globally, etc.
> > >
> > > It's a bit like diet pills - people swear they work. Dieting is a
> > > multi-million dollar industry in many countries. Try pick up a
> > > fashion / ladies magazine that does not have an article
> > about dieting.
> > > But the real truth is simple - eat like a pig and you get fat. Eat
> > > reasonably and you don't.
> > >
> > > I mean for goodness sake, just look at the name : "Marvel Mystery
> > > Oil".
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't like mysterious things in my engine, and have managed just
> > > fine without it up to now.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =========
> > Matronics Forums.
> > =========
> > =========
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
Only you would think of that Ernie. -) Now, for your next research project
you are assigned to the Reno air races and chartered to observe 3 aircraft
pits in the unlimited category. You pick the three. Then you are to sit
just outside the pits with camera and notebook in hand, 24 hours a day for
the entire races and verify, count and calculate the use of MMO by each team
AND determine the specific and quantifiable benefits gained by each.
And just because I AM Italian, I don't want to hear "fagedaboudit"
either. -)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> I've been adding MMO to my fuel (not oil however) for the last 3
> years. I'm ashamed to say that I've been blindly doing it on advice
> from other pilots who swear by the stuff, rather than on any
> conclusive research on my part.
>
> I'm usually a skeptic, but even the article I posted really didnt
> discount MMO, and praised it as a solvent/detergent (which already
> exists in our oils), and other articles I've found attribute its
> qualities as a top end lube and cleaner.
>
> After reading the article however, I was impressed by one recurring
> theme......The clever marketing guy who's name kept coming up when the
> authors were researching this piece. Marketing may be the reason that
> one sees all those empty containers in the pits at Reno, and doesnt
> neccesarily mean that they're running the stuff in their engines.
>
> Just a conspiracy theory to ponder :)
>
> Ernie
>
>
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:07:38 -0800, John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> >
> > Ernie, in a previous life I marketed a product regionally called TX-7
which
> > had to overcome the exact article you referenced below from 1992 "Snake
> > Oil". It seems a number of American Airline pilots had locked onto
territory
> > franchises for a product out of Texas (TX7). This was made by a firm
whose
> > specialty was Teflon coating of high wear/contact parts on NASCAR and
IROC
> > automobiles, then to an oil additive they produced. Quantifiable and
severe
> > field application if at all comparable to aircraft usage.
> >
> > To cut to the chase, that product was milled so fine that it
> > electrostatically stayed in suspension - others settle out, allowed the
base
> > carrier to clean the piston ring grooves and provided additional
volumetric
> > seal. And did not receive threats from Dupont. The base carrier was
Mobil
> > One synthetic. A lengthy series of expensive dyno tests documented the
> > added value, increased horsepower and extended life with no such Snake
Oil
> > connotation. However, at $13.00 a quart RETAIL, a prudent pilot would
> > change his stock oil more frequently, regularly have oil analysis done
by
> > the same firm repetitively and always bring the oil up to minimum temp
and
> > keep it below upper limits during any flight operation. I am surprised
how
> > many don't.
> >
> > As an A & P mechanic, I sworn to the FAA to never endorse any additive
> > without manufacturer authorization (remember those millions and trial
> > attorneys). That said, once you cross the line from certified aircraft
a
> > compelling body of aircraft owners and maintenance personnel are
regularly
> > throwing empty maroon containers away around the country. I await any
> > definitive printed data on accelerated wear, increased temperature or
fuel
> > flow constriction from those maroon container contents. Most probably
the
> > opposite could be true.
> >
> > My oil analysis reports (on motor vehicles) do show a slight decrease in
> > viscosity and a lowering of flashpoint but not to my concern. One
Powerplant
> > went 364,000 miles before storage (still runs) and my current one (Daily
> > Driver) is at 225,000 miles with a glowing report last month. Copy
available
> > on request. And yes, I have empty maroon containers in my auto garage.
> >
> > I have tried a number of manufacturers and product types on recip
engines.
> > The best products have always been within engine manufacturer
guidelines.
> > The most valuable advise I have received to date was from Larry
Schlasinger
> > at KOTW last year. Electric Engine Preheat. The first 60 seconds is 90%
of
> > the engines total lifetime wear. That is short of running it out of oil.
> >
> > Good luck with your winter flying and the valued discussion.
> >
> > John Cox
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
Martinez
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > Heres a long read but its informative. It makes some rather good
> > observations on oil additives. MMO is treated a lot better than the
> > other treatments, but counters a previous post which claimed that
> > putting in too much MMO will not cause harm. Apparently MMO is a
> > solvent and can dilute the lubricating properties of your oil.
> >
> > http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:00:53 -0600, A. Dennis Savarese
> > <DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> > <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
> > >
> > > If you have ever had an M14 "cough" on short final when you advance
the
> > > throttle, adding MMO to the fuel reduces the symptoms AND the higher
flow
> > of
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Dennis, how about Strega and Dago Red for two. I have some notes from years
past. I know Tiger has retired the Witch but those are Italian... right?
Bill K crewchiefed on both teams with an unmatchable winning record.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
Only you would think of that Ernie. -) Now, for your next research project
you are assigned to the Reno air races and chartered to observe 3 aircraft
pits in the unlimited category. You pick the three. Then you are to sit
just outside the pits with camera and notebook in hand, 24 hours a day for
the entire races and verify, count and calculate the use of MMO by each team
AND determine the specific and quantifiable benefits gained by each.
And just because I AM Italian, I don't want to hear "fagedaboudit"
either. -)
Dennis
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Thats gonna take a lot of beer my friend, and a comfy seat, and a lot
of Italian subs.
Ernie
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:21:39 -0600, A. Dennis Savarese
<DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
> Only you would think of that Ernie. -) Now, for your next research project
> you are assigned to the Reno air races and chartered to observe 3 aircraft
> pits in the unlimited category. You pick the three. Then you are to sit
> just outside the pits with camera and notebook in hand, 24 hours a day for
Message 17
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| Subject: | Engine Oil Heater pads |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Murphy <waltmurphy@charter.net>
Found a guy who sells oil heater pads for a reasonable amount in both 75
watt and 100 watt sizes on e bay.
I picked up the smaller one for the oil cooler on the CJ and the larger
for the oil tank.
Walt
75 watt
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38657&item=7950551076&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
100 watt
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38657&item=7952084365&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Message 18
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| Subject: | Engine Oil Heater pads |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Walt, One thing to be careful about with heater pads is that they are not so
hot that they carbonize the oil they are heating. Bigger is not better.
If you have 120 volts at the aircraft, you might also consider a oil
preheater. Made up of a heated tank, pump and quick disconnect hoses to
connect the aircraft oil system to the heated, pressurized system. The
engine is then pre oiled and pre heated all the time, start up engine wear
becomes a non issue.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Walt Murphy
Subject: Yak-List: Engine Oil Heater pads
--> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Murphy <waltmurphy@charter.net>
Found a guy who sells oil heater pads for a reasonable amount in both 75
watt and 100 watt sizes on e bay.
I picked up the smaller one for the oil cooler on the CJ and the larger
for the oil tank.
Walt
75 watt
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38657&item
=7950551076&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
100 watt
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38657&item
=7952084365&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Message 19
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ben Marsh" <ben@designselect.net>
Greetings,
I've worked with the Sanders team as well as the September Pops team
for quite a while at the races at air shows and in Ione. Neither uses MMO
as fuel or oil additives in the five racers they bring to the show. And,
I've had something to do with fueling and oiling all the racers every year.
I've added MMO to the fuel in my model '52 on a regular basis, never
the oil (why would anyone want to lower the viscosity of the perfectly good
quality oil we get off the rack?).
Re the benefits, I can't prove any at all. As well, even if there
is a value to MMO, are our relatively coarse instruments in our machines
able to register the small results MMO may provide? This, particularly with
the difficulty of controlling atmospheric conditions during operational
tests, leaves the hypothesis untestable. Still, the concept for using it in
fuel doesn't bother me. It just doesn't send warms smoke up my pant leg.
Regards,
BHM
P. S. The model '55 restoration is rolling along quite well.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I've been adding MMO to my fuel (not oil however) for the last 3
years. I'm ashamed to say that I've been blindly doing it on advice
from other pilots who swear by the stuff, rather than on any
conclusive research on my part.
I'm usually a skeptic, but even the article I posted really didnt
discount MMO, and praised it as a solvent/detergent (which already
exists in our oils), and other articles I've found attribute its
qualities as a top end lube and cleaner.
After reading the article however, I was impressed by one recurring
theme......The clever marketing guy who's name kept coming up when the
authors were researching this piece. Marketing may be the reason that
one sees all those empty containers in the pits at Reno, and doesnt
neccesarily mean that they're running the stuff in their engines.
Just a conspiracy theory to ponder :)
Ernie
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:07:38 -0800, John W. Cox <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Ernie, in a previous life I marketed a product regionally called TX-7
which
> had to overcome the exact article you referenced below from 1992 "Snake
> Oil". It seems a number of American Airline pilots had locked onto
territory
> franchises for a product out of Texas (TX7). This was made by a firm
whose
> specialty was Teflon coating of high wear/contact parts on NASCAR and IROC
> automobiles, then to an oil additive they produced. Quantifiable and
severe
> field application if at all comparable to aircraft usage.
>
> To cut to the chase, that product was milled so fine that it
> electrostatically stayed in suspension - others settle out, allowed the
base
> carrier to clean the piston ring grooves and provided additional
volumetric
> seal. And did not receive threats from Dupont. The base carrier was Mobil
> One synthetic. A lengthy series of expensive dyno tests documented the
> added value, increased horsepower and extended life with no such Snake Oil
> connotation. However, at $13.00 a quart RETAIL, a prudent pilot would
> change his stock oil more frequently, regularly have oil analysis done by
> the same firm repetitively and always bring the oil up to minimum temp and
> keep it below upper limits during any flight operation. I am surprised
how
> many don't.
>
> As an A & P mechanic, I sworn to the FAA to never endorse any additive
> without manufacturer authorization (remember those millions and trial
> attorneys). That said, once you cross the line from certified aircraft a
> compelling body of aircraft owners and maintenance personnel are regularly
> throwing empty maroon containers away around the country. I await any
> definitive printed data on accelerated wear, increased temperature or fuel
> flow constriction from those maroon container contents. Most probably the
> opposite could be true.
>
> My oil analysis reports (on motor vehicles) do show a slight decrease in
> viscosity and a lowering of flashpoint but not to my concern. One
Powerplant
> went 364,000 miles before storage (still runs) and my current one (Daily
> Driver) is at 225,000 miles with a glowing report last month. Copy
available
> on request. And yes, I have empty maroon containers in my auto garage.
>
> I have tried a number of manufacturers and product types on recip engines.
> The best products have always been within engine manufacturer guidelines.
> The most valuable advise I have received to date was from Larry
Schlasinger
> at KOTW last year. Electric Engine Preheat. The first 60 seconds is 90%
of
> the engines total lifetime wear. That is short of running it out of oil.
>
> Good luck with your winter flying and the valued discussion.
>
> John Cox
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Heres a long read but its informative. It makes some rather good
> observations on oil additives. MMO is treated a lot better than the
> other treatments, but counters a previous post which claimed that
> putting in too much MMO will not cause harm. Apparently MMO is a
> solvent and can dilute the lubricating properties of your oil.
>
> http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html
>
> Ernie
>
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:00:53 -0600, A. Dennis Savarese
> <DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
> >
> > If you have ever had an M14 "cough" on short final when you advance the
> > throttle, adding MMO to the fuel reduces the symptoms AND the higher
flow
> of
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ben Marsh" <ben@designselect.net>
Greetings again,
My spies tell me Strega will be on the Reno ramp in September with a
new pilot C.B.. We shall see...
Regards,
BHM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Dennis, how about Strega and Dago Red for two. I have some notes from years
past. I know Tiger has retired the Witch but those are Italian... right?
Bill K crewchiefed on both teams with an unmatchable winning record.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
Only you would think of that Ernie. -) Now, for your next research project
you are assigned to the Reno air races and chartered to observe 3 aircraft
pits in the unlimited category. You pick the three. Then you are to sit
just outside the pits with camera and notebook in hand, 24 hours a day for
the entire races and verify, count and calculate the use of MMO by each team
AND determine the specific and quantifiable benefits gained by each.
And just because I AM Italian, I don't want to hear "fagedaboudit"
either. -)
Dennis
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | MMO, Again, again, again... |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
MMO isn't for everyone. Aviation Experts don't need it. Yak
Listers don't need it. Your engine doesn't NEED it to run
safely.
Aviation oils for radial engines have a limited market,
hence the $$$ spent on formulating mass market oils doesn't
directly apply here. Radial engines, and air cooled engines
in general suffer from some common maladies, namely
different rates of expansion between the parts that move and
the ones that ain't 'posed to move.
One Solution: allow generous clearances to allow for rapid
heat cycling during a typical engine operating profile: high
power on TO, cruise and low power descents. Devices such as
cowl flaps, gills, and moveable oil cooler exhaust vents
serve to allow the pilot to adjust these devices to keep the
engine within a narrow as possible temperature band.
So what usually happens to the oil in these engines? Aside
from being sucked through the blower seal and being burned,
the system temperature varies widely from place to place.
ie: Oil Cooler temps vs engine oil outlet temps. Result:
lots of sludge from piston ring blowby and "goop" in the
cooler places. Carbon flakes all over the inside of an old
engine.
Automotive engine oils have additives that reduce such
buildups. Too bad these same additives also eat holes in the
lead coating protecting the silvered master rod bearing in
radials.
MMO is a very old formulation used by major aircraft engine
rebuilders in newly OH engines. It has none of the exotic
chems found in "wonder" cures which I won't name here. What
it does is dissolve those deposits and move them back into
suspension by the action of it's very small molecules. Those
same small molecules sneak their way into metal surfaces and
help during break-in.
I don't use it ALL the time, I DO use it before oil changes
and when I know I'm going to be running the engine hard.
It's a great top lube, which means those up and down
thingeys on top of the cylinder barrels as well as all those
tiny tubes in your oil cooler. It also helps the carb when
used in fuel, especially if you routinely mix Mogas with
100LL like I do.
Don't bother using it unless you plan on running your engine
for mucho hours, I'm sure some of our finance wizard
'listers could prove that it's not worth the money; but then
Money is something that I don't have a lot of so I tend to
protect what little I have.
Craig Payne
Message 22
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Ernie, If you were talking about my post when you spoke about someone saying
that "putting in too much MMO will not cause harm" I was putting too much in
the fuel NOT the oil.
As for oil, I put one quart in AFTER a new oil change. I put two quarts in
right before an OLD oil change (in an attempt to use it as a solvent) and
run the engine for about an hour, and then immediately drain the oil. The
extra two in at oil change time is in an effort to help clean out as much
sludge as possible. I have been doing this for the past 400 hours on the
engine. I do NOT put in three quarts all at once in the oil.
I HAVE put 1/2 quart in the FUEL per 28 gallons with no apparent ill effect
for the last 250 or so hours, and have noticed a definate reduction in lead
fouling to the plugs.
That said, my comment was that if you accidentally put more MMO into the
FUEL than the recommended "dosage" that I would not be overly concerned
about it. I have run up to one full QUART for 28 gallons and also have
observed no ill-effect, although I do not run that much as a rule.
In the "for what it is worth" catagory, I have run MMO oil in motorcycles
that have jets that are partially blocked from varnish deposits, and it has
cleaned them out. There is no question that it works as a solvent in fuel.
I run it mainly in the fuel for the M-14P for two reaons: 1. It reduces
lead fouling. 2. I HOPE that it helps to keep the barostat clean in the
carb.
Best Regards,
Mark Bitterlich
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Martinez [mailto:erniel29@gmail.com]
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Heres a long read but its informative. It makes some rather good
observations on oil additives. MMO is treated a lot better than the
other treatments, but counters a previous post which claimed that
putting in too much MMO will not cause harm. Apparently MMO is a
solvent and can dilute the lubricating properties of your oil.
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html
Ernie
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
A nice-a spice-e meat-a ball sub?
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Thats gonna take a lot of beer my friend, and a comfy seat, and a lot
> of Italian subs.
>
> Ernie
>
>
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 17:21:39 -0600, A. Dennis Savarese
> <DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
> >
> > Only you would think of that Ernie. -) Now, for your next research
project
> > you are assigned to the Reno air races and chartered to observe 3
aircraft
> > pits in the unlimited category. You pick the three. Then you are to
sit
> > just outside the pits with camera and notebook in hand, 24 hours a day
for
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
I'm sure Ernie is open for "recommendations".
----- Original Message -----
From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Dennis, how about Strega and Dago Red for two. I have some notes from
years
> past. I know Tiger has retired the Witch but those are Italian... right?
> Bill K crewchiefed on both teams with an unmatchable winning record.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
> Only you would think of that Ernie. -) Now, for your next research
project
> you are assigned to the Reno air races and chartered to observe 3 aircraft
> pits in the unlimited category. You pick the three. Then you are to sit
> just outside the pits with camera and notebook in hand, 24 hours a day for
> the entire races and verify, count and calculate the use of MMO by each
team
> AND determine the specific and quantifiable benefits gained by each.
>
> And just because I AM Italian, I don't want to hear "fagedaboudit"
> either. -)
> Dennis
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
That's a good deduction and a reasonable assumption Gus, but let me say
this:
My Yak-50 has no cowl shutters/gills. All of them were removed by some
previous owner... probably when it used to belong to Les Crowder down in
Texas, since it has his rather huge spinner on it, along with some other
mods, most of which I love by the way. However, without the gills, it's
pretty much a no-brainer that the cylinder head temps are going to run cool,
especially in the winter, thus the lead is going to try and fall out of
suspension worse than with other engines that run higher CHT's/EGT's. The
worst lead fouling that I have had seems to always be in cylinders 9,1 and
2. These top three lose compression faster than any of the others, and I
have seen that to be true now on three M-14's. Two of them P models and one
of them a PF. Cylinder #2, seems to always be the worst of the three... and
I have NO IDEA why. Compression losses seem to be caused mostly by failure
of the exhaust valve to fully seat due to lead deposits. With the addition
of MMO, I have seen visual reductions in the amount of lead in the plugs (I
run Russian plugs).
It is my understanding and belief (open to anyone's correction please!) that
the amount of lead in our "100 Low Lead" fuel is in fact far more than that
contained in Russian 93-100 octane fuel and that the term "low lead" is
actually an oxymoron in regard to the blue stuff we all have been using.
Adding more gas to the fire (pun intended), I would like to open the
Pandora's Box on fuel and hear others opinions on running AUTOMOBILE FUEL...
92 octane or higher... either pure, or mixed with 100 LL. I have one gent
who claims he ran it in a YAK-52 for tons of hours and had no problem. I've
run it a few times, and it seemed to run just fine, but I never made a habit
of it.
But Gus, back to the "am I running too rich?" question. I really do not
know for sure, to be quite honest. However, I would THINK that if I were
running THAT RICH, thus causing low CHT's, lead fouling of plugs and exhaust
valves, etc., that I would also be running so rich that I would have washed
the rings out by now.
But.. it is a point worth looking into. The engine runs just absolutely
perfect. How would you suggest I check it vis-=E0-vis your comment?
Best Regards,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Gus Fraser [mailto:fraseg@comcast.net]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Mark have you considered that the two may be related. The reason that you
have fouling and low cht may be that you are running rich.
Gus
...... Original Message .......
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:48:34 -0500 Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>
>Dennis's values are accurate... just adding my 1 cent.
>
>Just in case you ever worry about putting too MUCH in: I have used twice
>that amount in the fuel for the last 250 hours with no ill results that I
>can see. I.E., I use about 1/2 quart for every 28 gallons or so, which is
>way over the recommended dosage. I had rather serious lead fouling on
>cylinders 9,1 & 2, mainly because the cyl. head temps. are way too cool on
>my engine ... "why" is another discussion. Suffice it to say that running
>this high an amount of MMO 'seems' to have cut my lead fouling problems
down
>significantly. This belief has also been supported by inspection of the
>spark plugs which now have little to NO lead fouling in two years of
>operation. So if you slip.. and slurp in a little too much... it's no big
>deal.
>
>I put one quart in with every oil change, as Dennis recommends, and when I
>get close to around 20 hours, I put another two quarts in for one flight...
>and then drain and change the oil.
>
>Mark
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com]
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
><DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
>Add to oil. 1 qt per oil change
>Add to gas. 6 oz. per 15 gallons. Be religious about using it too.
>Interpolate what is needed for each tank each time you fuel up.
>Available at most Wal-Mart's for $9.84 per gallon. Least expensive place
to
>buy it.
>Dennis
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stephen Fox" <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>>
>> Ok I know this subject has probably been covered to death, but as a new
>Yak
>> 52 owner who just finished up transition and who joined the list at the
>very
>> tail end of the last discussion about MMO. HereB9s the question add to
>oil,
>> add to gas or add to both and in what quantities.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve Fox
>>
>>
>
>
Message 26
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--> Yak-List message posted by: JOE <joeh@shaw.ca>
LISTERS
Does anyone out there have a weight and balance calculated for an 18T that they
would share?
Please contact me off line.
Joe
joeh@shaw.ca
Message 27
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Angus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Good question, messing with the carb is not to be attempted by the faint of
heart. I think it is right up there with the air start system, well not
maybe that bad but. Adjusting the idle is one thing but the mixture is
another. Basically the theory is this, there is a diaphram in the carb that
moves the needle valve as the aircraft goes up and down to account for air
pressure. On the carb there is an adjustment for the needle if you have the
diagram from the manual it is clearly identified. I have the adjustment
procedure from the manual in English if you ned it but it sounds easier that
I am sure it is. Just for the record I have not done it I always defer that
one to someone better qualified.
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
That's a good deduction and a reasonable assumption Gus, but let me say
this:
My Yak-50 has no cowl shutters/gills. All of them were removed by some
previous owner... probably when it used to belong to Les Crowder down in
Texas, since it has his rather huge spinner on it, along with some other
mods, most of which I love by the way. However, without the gills, it's
pretty much a no-brainer that the cylinder head temps are going to run cool,
especially in the winter, thus the lead is going to try and fall out of
suspension worse than with other engines that run higher CHT's/EGT's. The
worst lead fouling that I have had seems to always be in cylinders 9,1 and
2. These top three lose compression faster than any of the others, and I
have seen that to be true now on three M-14's. Two of them P models and one
of them a PF. Cylinder #2, seems to always be the worst of the three... and
I have NO IDEA why. Compression losses seem to be caused mostly by failure
of the exhaust valve to fully seat due to lead deposits. With the addition
of MMO, I have seen visual reductions in the amount of lead in the plugs (I
run Russian plugs).
It is my understanding and belief (open to anyone's correction please!) that
the amount of lead in our "100 Low Lead" fuel is in fact far more than that
contained in Russian 93-100 octane fuel and that the term "low lead" is
actually an oxymoron in regard to the blue stuff we all have been using.
Adding more gas to the fire (pun intended), I would like to open the
Pandora's Box on fuel and hear others opinions on running AUTOMOBILE FUEL...
92 octane or higher... either pure, or mixed with 100 LL. I have one gent
who claims he ran it in a YAK-52 for tons of hours and had no problem. I've
run it a few times, and it seemed to run just fine, but I never made a habit
of it.
But Gus, back to the "am I running too rich?" question. I really do not
know for sure, to be quite honest. However, I would THINK that if I were
running THAT RICH, thus causing low CHT's, lead fouling of plugs and exhaust
valves, etc., that I would also be running so rich that I would have washed
the rings out by now.
But.. it is a point worth looking into. The engine runs just absolutely
perfect. How would you suggest I check it vis-=E0-vis your comment?
Best Regards,
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Gus Fraser [mailto:fraseg@comcast.net]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Mark have you considered that the two may be related. The reason that you
have fouling and low cht may be that you are running rich.
Gus
...... Original Message .......
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:48:34 -0500 Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil> wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>
>Dennis's values are accurate... just adding my 1 cent.
>
>Just in case you ever worry about putting too MUCH in: I have used twice
>that amount in the fuel for the last 250 hours with no ill results that I
>can see. I.E., I use about 1/2 quart for every 28 gallons or so, which is
>way over the recommended dosage. I had rather serious lead fouling on
>cylinders 9,1 & 2, mainly because the cyl. head temps. are way too cool on
>my engine ... "why" is another discussion. Suffice it to say that running
>this high an amount of MMO 'seems' to have cut my lead fouling problems
down
>significantly. This belief has also been supported by inspection of the
>spark plugs which now have little to NO lead fouling in two years of
>operation. So if you slip.. and slurp in a little too much... it's no big
>deal.
>
>I put one quart in with every oil change, as Dennis recommends, and when I
>get close to around 20 hours, I put another two quarts in for one flight...
>and then drain and change the oil.
>
>Mark
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: A. Dennis Savarese [mailto:DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com]
>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
><DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
>Add to oil. 1 qt per oil change
>Add to gas. 6 oz. per 15 gallons. Be religious about using it too.
>Interpolate what is needed for each tank each time you fuel up.
>Available at most Wal-Mart's for $9.84 per gallon. Least expensive place
to
>buy it.
>Dennis
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stephen Fox" <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>>
>> Ok I know this subject has probably been covered to death, but as a new
>Yak
>> 52 owner who just finished up transition and who joined the list at the
>very
>> tail end of the last discussion about MMO. HereB9s the question add to
>oil,
>> add to gas or add to both and in what quantities.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve Fox
>>
>>
>
>
Message 28
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Angus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Lance,
G'day mate
I am a 52 pilot so I may be speaking out of school but there was some
discussion on the list from CJ flyers about cracks in a stringer in the tail
plane. Due to the excesive forces on the elevator during a tail slide I
would make sure that you have no issues there before trying them out. Apart
from that push stop pull or pull stop push.
As I say I am not speaking from any level of authority about CJs but that
conversation was over 12 months ago so you would have missed it.
Is it true that all flying in Australia is inverted ???? :)
Gus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lance Robb
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Tail slides
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lance Robb" <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
Hi Guys,
I'll introduce myself, I'm Lance Robb and I fly a CJ6 at the North
Queensland warbirds at Mareeba in Far North Queensland Australia. I have
been flying our CJ for a little over 12 Months now and find it a thrill to
fly. Since starting to fly aerobatics with it I have been steadily
increasing my number of aeros and am wanting to know if there is anyone out
there who has any comments on tail sliding the CJ6. I don't see there should
be a problem but our chief pilot has suggested I ask those who have probably
tried it first to get their feed back.
Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Lance
Message 29
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Jorgen;
Oil in the combustion process has been outlawed for almost all
automotive engines in the world. It pollutes. No manufacturer is going
to promote adding oil to the combustion process no matter how much good
it does for the engine. Exhaust emissions are why you will never see a
major engine manufacturer recommend nor even design an engine that
requires oil to be burned. Aircraft are, for the most part, unregulated
when it comes to emissions so we can get away with allot more.
Frank
YAK-52
N9110M
L71
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
--> <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
And this time I can't help but comment: Fitting nomex suit in
preparation for on board fire...
I have always held the belief that items such as MMO and their ilk are
like snake oil. And I have heard many pseudo scientific stories, etc.
(About many things, including MMO). Oil companies spend billions on
research, patents expire after n years, surely they would be on the
bandwagon (as I guess they are in terms of additive packages), you would
also get "generic" MMO, etc. If these things really work as advertised
the use thereof would become a mandatory standard additive, saving
countries billions of dollars in oil importation, being more competitive
globally, etc.
It's a bit like diet pills - people swear they work. Dieting is a
multi-million dollar industry in many countries. Try pick up a fashion
/ ladies magazine that does not have an article about dieting. But the
real truth is simple - eat like a pig and you get fat. Eat reasonably
and you don't.
I mean for goodness sake, just look at the name : "Marvel Mystery Oil".
I don't like mysterious things in my engine, and have managed just fine
without it up to now.
Message 30
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Lance
As regards aerobatics with the CJ. I would counsel that the CJ is best
described as a point A to point B airplane. It is well recognized that
it is incapable of performing to an equivalent "combat type level" as
you might expect with a YAK-52.
If I owned a CJ, I would fly it as though my grandmother were in the
back seat thus ensuring you never exceed the CJ's somewhat limited
flight envelope. Tail slides are an advanced maneuver limited to the
stronger airplanes, like the YAK-52, so you would be well advised to
avoid such maneuvers. In fact, my general advice is to sell the CJ and
get a man's airplane.....the YAK-52. This will allow you to explore the
full flight spectrum with confidence. There are pilots and there are
aviators. But most of all, there are those who really know how to push
the envelope and explore the limits of their aircraft. It is unlikely
you will experience either in the CJ.
Frank
N9110M
YAK-52
L71
:)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Robb
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Tail slides
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lance Robb" <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
Hi Guys,
I'll introduce myself, I'm Lance Robb and I fly a CJ6 at the North
Queensland warbirds at Mareeba in Far North Queensland Australia. I
have been flying our CJ for a little over 12 Months now and find it a
thrill to fly. Since starting to fly aerobatics with it I have been
steadily increasing my number of aeros and am wanting to know if there
is anyone out there who has any comments on tail sliding the CJ6. I
don't see there should be a problem but our chief pilot has suggested I
ask those who have probably tried it first to get their feed back.
Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Lance
Message 31
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steven A Johnson" <sajdds@comcast.net>
Stephen
I am reluctant to disagree with the experts who regularly contribute to
this list but my research has convinced me that MMO is not only a waste
of money but is detrimental. I suggest you read "Snake Oil" which can be
found at http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html . This article
covers just about all the points although similar views are common and
expressed elsewhere. You already use good oil with carefully balanced
detergent additives to prevent buildup while not diminishing lubricating
properties. The lead in the fuel is there for a reason, why wash it all
away. The way I see it the only possible benefit of using MMO is a
slight increase in performance at the expense of increased wear. I would
rather minimize the wear and I can increase the performance by moving
the throttle forward.
I hate to commit another blasphemy or appear stupid but I have a
question for the group. Why do we change our oil? The system holds 8-12
quarts. I loose 1 quart per hour. After I have flown 25 or 30 hours I
have added 25 to 30 quarts of new oil. The oil is constantly being mixed
so it is not that I am draining slug out of the bottom. I figure my oil
is never more than about 12 hours old. I can see checking or cleaning
the screens but why drain and discard perfectly good oil. It does not
make sense to me. Any comments?
Steve
N9900X
Time:
05:53:58 PM PST US
Subject:
Marvel Mystery Oil - again
From:
Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
Ok I know this subject has probably been covered to death, but as
a new Yak
52 owner who just finished up transition and who joined the list
at the very
tail end of the last discussion about MMO. Here=B9s the question
add to oil,
add to gas or add to both and in what quantities.
Thanks,
Steve Fox
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Tail slides |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
<In fact, my general advice is to sell the CJ and get a man's
airplane.....the YAK-52>
Oh no! Here we go again!
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: CJ6 Tail slides
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Lance
> As regards aerobatics with the CJ. I would counsel that the CJ is best
> described as a point A to point B airplane. It is well recognized that
> it is incapable of performing to an equivalent "combat type level" as
> you might expect with a YAK-52.
>
> If I owned a CJ, I would fly it as though my grandmother were in the
> back seat thus ensuring you never exceed the CJ's somewhat limited
> flight envelope. Tail slides are an advanced maneuver limited to the
> stronger airplanes, like the YAK-52, so you would be well advised to
> avoid such maneuvers. In fact, my general advice is to sell the CJ and
> get a man's airplane.....the YAK-52. This will allow you to explore the
> full flight spectrum with confidence. There are pilots and there are
> aviators. But most of all, there are those who really know how to push
> the envelope and explore the limits of their aircraft. It is unlikely
> you will experience either in the CJ.
>
> Frank
> N9110M
> YAK-52
> L71
> :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Robb
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Tail slides
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lance Robb" <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I'll introduce myself, I'm Lance Robb and I fly a CJ6 at the North
> Queensland warbirds at Mareeba in Far North Queensland Australia. I
> have been flying our CJ for a little over 12 Months now and find it a
> thrill to fly. Since starting to fly aerobatics with it I have been
> steadily increasing my number of aeros and am wanting to know if there
> is anyone out there who has any comments on tail sliding the CJ6. I
> don't see there should be a problem but our chief pilot has suggested I
> ask those who have probably tried it first to get their feed back.
>
> Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Lance
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: YAK-List: CJ6 Tail slides |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
I guess that since the Yak is suppose to be better than a CJ that must be the reason
that so many of them are for sale in TAP. It is getting so bad that they
even have a Yak section but no Nanchang section.
To each his own I guess.
Frank CJ6-A N23021
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
You seem to be forgetting the Wankel, it burns oil!
Frank CJ6-A N23021
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
> <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> Jorgen;
> Oil in the combustion process has been outlawed for almost all
> automotive engines in the world. It pollutes. No manufacturer is going
> to promote adding oil to the combustion process no matter how much good
> it does for the engine. Exhaust emissions are why you will never see a
> major engine manufacturer recommend nor even design an engine that
> requires oil to be burned. Aircraft are, for the most part, unregulated
> when it comes to emissions so we can get away with allot more.
>
> Frank
> YAK-52
> N9110M
> L71
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jorgen Nielsen
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jorgen Nielsen"
> --> <jorgen.nielsen@mweb.co.za>
>
> And this time I can't help but comment: Fitting nomex suit in
> preparation for on board fire...
>
> I have always held the belief that items such as MMO and their ilk are
> like snake oil. And I have heard many pseudo scientific stories, etc.
> (About many things, including MMO). Oil companies spend billions on
> research, patents expire after n years, surely they would be on the
> bandwagon (as I guess they are in terms of additive packages), you would
> also get "generic" MMO, etc. If these things really work as advertised
> the use thereof would become a mandatory standard additive, saving
> countries billions of dollars in oil importation, being more competitive
> globally, etc.
>
> It's a bit like diet pills - people swear they work. Dieting is a
> multi-million dollar industry in many countries. Try pick up a fashion
> / ladies magazine that does not have an article about dieting. But the
> real truth is simple - eat like a pig and you get fat. Eat reasonably
> and you don't.
>
> I mean for goodness sake, just look at the name : "Marvel Mystery Oil".
>
>
> I don't like mysterious things in my engine, and have managed just fine
> without it up to now.
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Tail slides |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shafer" <eyeballs@cox.net>
The CJ is adequately stressed for military acrobatics. Snap rolls and tail
slides are prohibited. The designer of the CJ blamed the cracks in the tail
area on students doing smap rolls and tail slides. Looking at the
structure of CJs and Y-52s, you can see the many extra longerons and thicker
skins in the tail of the 52. The wings and forward fuselage are similar.
Eyeballs
Since starting to fly aerobatics with it I have been steadily
> increasing my number of aeros and am wanting to know if there is anyone
> out
> there who has any comments on tail sliding the CJ6.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
Steve,
Research or no research, my suggestion is to take the opportunity to look
inside one of the cylinders of an M14 that has been using MMO in the fuel
vs. one that hasn't and you will be astonished at how "clean" it looks.
Mark Bitterlich illustrated this point very well in his post on the subject
this evening. Personally, I have observed precisely the same thing in my
own engine. I will continue to use it.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven A Johnson" <sajdds@comcast.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Marvel Mystery Oil - again
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Steven A Johnson" <sajdds@comcast.net>
>
> Stephen
> I am reluctant to disagree with the experts who regularly contribute to
> this list but my research has convinced me that MMO is not only a waste
> of money but is detrimental. I suggest you read "Snake Oil" which can be
> found at http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html . This article
> covers just about all the points although similar views are common and
> expressed elsewhere. You already use good oil with carefully balanced
> detergent additives to prevent buildup while not diminishing lubricating
> properties. The lead in the fuel is there for a reason, why wash it all
> away. The way I see it the only possible benefit of using MMO is a
> slight increase in performance at the expense of increased wear. I would
> rather minimize the wear and I can increase the performance by moving
> the throttle forward.
>
> I hate to commit another blasphemy or appear stupid but I have a
> question for the group. Why do we change our oil? The system holds 8-12
> quarts. I loose 1 quart per hour. After I have flown 25 or 30 hours I
> have added 25 to 30 quarts of new oil. The oil is constantly being mixed
> so it is not that I am draining slug out of the bottom. I figure my oil
> is never more than about 12 hours old. I can see checking or cleaning
> the screens but why drain and discard perfectly good oil. It does not
> make sense to me. Any comments?
>
> Steve
> N9900X
>
>
> Time:
> 05:53:58 PM PST US
>
>
> Subject:
> Marvel Mystery Oil - again
>
>
> From:
> Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Stephen Fox <jsfox@adelphia.net>
>
> Ok I know this subject has probably been covered to death, but as
> a new Yak
> 52 owner who just finished up transition and who joined the list
> at the very
> tail end of the last discussion about MMO. Here=B9s the question
> add to oil,
> add to gas or add to both and in what quantities.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Fox
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Tail slides |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
How are the wings similar Jim? They are two totally different airfoil
designs. I guess one could say they are similar though because they both DO
generate lift.-)
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Shafer" <eyeballs@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6 Tail slides
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Shafer" <eyeballs@cox.net>
>
> The CJ is adequately stressed for military acrobatics. Snap rolls and
tail
> slides are prohibited. The designer of the CJ blamed the cracks in the
tail
> area on students doing smap rolls and tail slides. Looking at the
> structure of CJs and Y-52s, you can see the many extra longerons and
thicker
> skins in the tail of the 52. The wings and forward fuselage are similar.
>
> Eyeballs
>
>
> Since starting to fly aerobatics with it I have been steadily
> > increasing my number of aeros and am wanting to know if there is anyone
> > out
> > there who has any comments on tail sliding the CJ6.
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: CJ6 Tail slides |
--> Yak-List message posted by: D Zeman <curious_wings@yahoo.com>
It was my understanding that this was prohibited in
the 52 as well. Does anyone have further info?
Zeman
__________________________________
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil - again |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
Jorgen,
I agree that all mystery engine additives are snake oil. Except Marvel
Mystery oil. It's ok with me if you disagree and don't use it. Have you
heard of Chevron's Techron? I use it too. I used it before Chevron
invented it. It is oridinary engine cleaning solvent (Stoddard Solvent)
that mechanics buy by the 55 gallon drum. Maybe someday Chevron will
discover MMO.
Ron
Message 40
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "egon" <egon@hinet.net.au>
Hi Lance,
I operate a CJ as well as a Yak 52 in the Southern Highlands south of Sydney. One
observation I would make as regards the CJ is that with a prolonged vertical
line as in a Hammerhead or a Tail Slide, the oil pressure very quickly drops
to zero. ( Not great for engine life!!) That being said, I have also seen references
that Tail Slides are not permitted in the Yak. If you choose to do them
anyway, make sure you leave the flap selector in the up position. Enjoy the
CJ mate. It is a wonderful aeroplane ( as is the Yak!! )
Cheers Egon.
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