Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:50 AM - Re: CJ6 Tail slides (Lance Robb)
2. 02:52 AM - Re: CJ6 Tail slides (Lance Robb)
3. 05:26 AM - Re: RED STAR AVIATION MUSEUM (Angus Fraser)
4. 08:56 AM - Just to stir the poop about using MMO (Dean Courtney)
5. 09:04 AM - For what it's worth, based on 50 years experience (Lee Taylor)
6. 11:14 AM - Re: Just to stir the poop about using MMO (Ernest Martinez)
7. 02:46 PM - Attention Richard Goode (Graeme Frew)
8. 06:16 PM - Sintered Bronze Bushings (Frank Haertlein)
9. 07:35 PM - MMO and oil changes (Steven A Johnson)
10. 10:57 PM - Re: MMO and oil changes (Ernest Martinez)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lance Robb" <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
Hi Jim,
Thankyou for your advise. I have found the CJ does great aeros and I'm
having a great time flying it. I have heard about a crack which had formed
on the tail of some CJ's before and we regularly check ours at each 50hrly
so we don't get any unwanted surprises!!
Thanks again,
Lance
NQWB Aust
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6 Tail slides
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Geee's I go out of town a few days and we get the Yak turkeys all ginned
up.
Lance,
Take no heed of this pretender. "Combat type level" maneuvers DO NOT
include tail slides. To stand still in the air for even an instant is
asking for
either an easy missile solution for your killer, or a stationary target for
his quick gun shot. If he misses, you are still at disadvantage, cause you
have accelerate in order to turn toward him to his same speed or greater,
to
close. By that time he's gone.
"Speed kills" the other guy in aerial combat. Ask ANY Yak pretender to
dive
with you OR EVEN, fly straight and level at YOUR cruise power settings.
Now acrobatics. Acrobatics were never invented so the pilot would need to
sit crunched up in a small cockpit, with minimum fuel, and endure bone
crushing G forces just to turn around a circle. Acrobatics were invented
as a soul
reaching extended experience, that emulates art. Finesse of movement and
fine of touch. To be able to enjoy every lengthy moment of sight, sound,
touch
of your craft. As my Brazilian daughter-in-law exclaimed as I took her
though her first loop "Ayeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! I am born to do
d'is!"
Now as to tail slides in the CJ-6. Yes she will do them. But it may NOT
BE
OK to do them. The CJ community has found several airplanes with cracks in
the front spar of the horizontal stab. These cracks emulate from a hole
cut
in the spar web, so that the elevator cable can go though. Most of us
avoid
tail slides because the tail don't look all that beefy compared to other
aircraft. Like all other aircraft, if you do a tail slide, DO NOT let the
controls slap freely as the aircraft starts to slide. Hold tight to the
stick and
do not allow the rudder to slam one way or the other. I do very nice
hammer
head turns to stay in the box.
Now the CJ will do just about any maneuver a Yak can do. Only in nice
stately elegant manner. No hurky jerky snappy crape. Only a certified
masticus
would endure such ham fisted convolutions. Pilots are artist and poets at
heart. You don't see real artists slapping on paint or poets scribbling
words.
Such things (and aerobatics) are done with deliberate diligence. Even the
untrained eye on the ground appreciate it more. Just sit in the crowd some
time and listen to them. It's like "Oh! Isn't really beautiful" (from a
#10
blond of a CJ-6's barrel roll) as compared to "What the *&
% was that!" ( a
Yak's reverse outside snap rolls)
Get back in place and mind your manner Frank! :-)
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 2/4/2005 12:44:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
yak52driver@earthlink.net writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Lance
As regards aerobatics with the CJ. I would counsel that the CJ is best
described as a point A to point B airplane. It is well recognized that it
is incapable of performing to an equivalent "combat type level" as you
might expect with a YAK-52.
If I owned a CJ, I would fly it as though my grandmother were in the back
seat thus ensuring you never exceed the CJ's somewhat limited flight
envelope. Tail slides are an advanced maneuver limited to the stronger
airplanes, like the YAK-52, so you would be well advised to avoid such
maneuvers. In fact, my general advice is to sell the CJ and get a man's
airplane.....the YAK-52. This will allow you to explore the full flight
spectrum with confidence. There are pilots and there are aviators. But most
of all, there are those who really know how to push the envelope and
explore the limits of their aircraft. It is unlikely you will experience
either in the CJ.
Frank
N9110M
YAK-52
L71
:)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance Robb
Subject: Yak-List: CJ6 Tail slides
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lance Robb" <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
Hi Guys,
I'll introduce myself, I'm Lance Robb and I fly a CJ6 at the North
Queensland warbirds at Mareeba in Far North Queensland Australia. I have
been flying our CJ for a little over 12 Months now and find it a thrill to
fly. Since starting to fly aerobatics with it I have been steadily
increasing my number of aeros and am wanting to know if there is anyone out
there who has any comments on tail sliding the CJ6. I don't see there
should be a problem but our chief pilot has suggested I ask those who have
probably tried it first to get their feed back.
Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
Regards,
Lance
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lance Robb" <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
Funny you should say that Gus, as I have not had the CJ's engine even
splutter whilst inverted or in -G.........then again I limit mine to a
maximum of around 6 secs at a time.
Lance
NQWB Aust
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gus Fraser
Subject: Re: Yak-List: CJ6 Tail slides
--> Yak-List message posted by: Gus Fraser <fraseg@comcast.net>
Ah, all the signs of classic G envy ;))
On the plus side, when you perform those 0 to -ve G figures in your CJ ,
being the artist it is, the engine will, just at the most poetic point go
quiet just to allow you to enjoy the shear beauty of it all.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Gus
...... Original Message .......
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:45:53 EST cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
>
>Geee's I go out of town a few days and we get the Yak turkeys all
>ginned
up.
>
>Lance,
>
>Take no heed of this pretender. "Combat type level" maneuvers DO NOT
>include tail slides. To stand still in the air for even an instant is
asking for
>either an easy missile solution for your killer, or a stationary
>target
for
>his quick gun shot. If he misses, you are still at disadvantage,
>cause
you
>have accelerate in order to turn toward him to his same speed or
>greater,
to
>close. By that time he's gone.
>
>"Speed kills" the other guy in aerial combat. Ask ANY Yak pretender
>to
dive
>with you OR EVEN, fly straight and level at YOUR cruise power
>settings.
>
>Now acrobatics. Acrobatics were never invented so the pilot would
>need
to
>sit crunched up in a small cockpit, with minimum fuel, and endure bone
>crushing G forces just to turn around a circle. Acrobatics were invented
as a soul
>reaching extended experience, that emulates art. Finesse of movement
>and
>fine of touch. To be able to enjoy every lengthy moment of sight, sound,
touch
>of your craft. As my Brazilian daughter-in-law exclaimed as I took
>her
>though her first loop "Ayeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! I am born to
do d'is!"
>
>Now as to tail slides in the CJ-6. Yes she will do them. But it may
>NOT
BE
>OK to do them. The CJ community has found several airplanes with
>cracks
in
>the front spar of the horizontal stab. These cracks emulate from a
>hole
cut
>in the spar web, so that the elevator cable can go though. Most of us
avoid
>tail slides because the tail don't look all that beefy compared to
>other
>aircraft. Like all other aircraft, if you do a tail slide, DO NOT let
the
>controls slap freely as the aircraft starts to slide. Hold tight to
>the
stick and
>do not allow the rudder to slam one way or the other. I do very nice
hammer
>head turns to stay in the box.
>
>Now the CJ will do just about any maneuver a Yak can do. Only in nice
>stately elegant manner. No hurky jerky snappy crape. Only a certified
masticus
>would endure such ham fisted convolutions. Pilots are artist and
>poets
at
>heart. You don't see real artists slapping on paint or poets
>scribbling
words.
>Such things (and aerobatics) are done with deliberate diligence. Even
the
>untrained eye on the ground appreciate it more. Just sit in the crowd
some
>time and listen to them. It's like "Oh! Isn't really beautiful" (from
>a
#10
>blond of a CJ-6's barrel roll) as compared to "What the *&
>% was that!" ( a
>Yak's reverse outside snap rolls)
>
>Get back in place and mind your manner Frank! :-)
>
>
>Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>In a message dated 2/4/2005 12:44:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>yak52driver@earthlink.net writes:
>
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
><yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
>Lance
>As regards aerobatics with the CJ. I would counsel that the CJ is best
>described as a point A to point B airplane. It is well recognized that
>it is incapable of performing to an equivalent "combat type level" as
>you might expect with a YAK-52.
>
>If I owned a CJ, I would fly it as though my grandmother were in the
>back seat thus ensuring you never exceed the CJ's somewhat limited
>flight envelope. Tail slides are an advanced maneuver limited to the
>stronger airplanes, like the YAK-52, so you would be well advised to
>avoid such maneuvers. In fact, my general advice is to sell the CJ and
>get a man's airplane.....the YAK-52. This will allow you to explore the
>full flight spectrum with confidence. There are pilots and there are
>aviators. But most of all, there are those who really know how to push
Message 3
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| Subject: | RED STAR AVIATION MUSEUM |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Angus Fraser" <fraseg@comcast.net>
Why ?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ernest Martinez
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RED STAR AVIATION MUSEUM
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Words of advise........steer well clear of this org, or more aptly
said... this guy. Nuff said.
Ernie
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:55:15 -0800, Frank Haertlein
<yak52driver@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> RED STAR AVIATION MUSEUM http://www.redstaraviation.org/
> Red Star Aviation is a unique non-profit Warbird Flying Museum,
> Consulting Service, and Flight Training & Aircraft Operating environment
> which is open to the public. Breaking the mold of the commercialization
> of Warbird flight training, we offer a non-competitive, non-commercial
> training and aircraft basing alternative for the novice or experienced
> Warbird pilot.
>
> Brought to you as a public service from the
> YAK LINKS Page http://home.earthlink.net/~yak52driver
>
> Frank Haertlein
> YAK-52
> N9110M
> L71
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Just to stir the poop about using MMO |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney" <deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
Gents,
The history of Marvel mystery oil is:
Gent with the last name of Marvel (the Marvel in Marvel-Schiebler aircraft
carb's) was producing carbs for the model A's and about every other
auto/tractor/ect maker in the early 20's. The gas and oil in those days was
crap, so Mr. Marvel's products rapidly got gummed up, and wouldn't work,
deposits grew in the combustion chambers, valves stuck, ect. Fearing a loss
of favor with Mr. Ford, ect. he concocted "Mystery oil" as a high detergent
additive, and top end lubricant. "Mystery" was a good marketing plan in 1920
(if you don't believe me look at the can it comes in, painted up just like a
1921 Harley gas tank) plus it mysteriously made these primitive engine run
better, keep running better, and the was the only detergent any oil had back
then.
So in closing. We have modern fuels these days, high quality detergent and
dispersant oils, ect. But I believe our radials have more in common with a
model A than a SOHC, fuel injected, water cooled SUV motor. It's no mystery,
it a detergent additive, and top end lubricant. If you run it, your valves
WILL stay cleaner, your combustion chambers WILL be cleaner, your engine
internals WILL be cleaner, the internals of your carb WILL be cleaner, plus
it's pleasant minty smell, and festive red color can be used a a gear heads
after shave. (Honest, the mint smell was added as a marketing thing in the
20's)
Those that forget history, are domed to repeat it :)
Cheers,
Dean Courtney
Message 5
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| Subject: | For what it's worth, based on 50 years experience |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@comcast.net>
Guys, for what it's worth, based on learning 50 years of hard
experience:
Fresh clean oil is the cheapest, most effective engine condition
insurance you can buy. Dirty oil tends to give you some "guarantees",
too, but not the kind you want.
Oil does not "wear out". It gets contaminated and crudded up.
That's why you change it. Also why it is a good idea to change it
immediately after a flight---while all the contaminates and crud are
still as thoroughly suspended as possible.
Marvel Mystery Oil helps keep things inside clean, without bad
side effects. Cleanliness inside an engine is next to godliness. I
have NEVER heard an authoritive voice against it, and I have talked to a
LOT of very highly experienced people who swear by it. At this stage, I
tend to listen to experience. I have finally learned that.
God, have I ever paid for that last lesson! And how valuable it
is, to have finally learned it. That's why these lists are so important
and valuable.
Lee Taylor
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Just to stir the poop about using MMO |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Now that was the most revealing post I've seen on the subject !
Thanks
Ernie
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 10:55:55 -0600, Dean Courtney
<deancourtney696@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney" <deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
>
> Gents,
>
> The history of Marvel mystery oil is:
> Gent with the last name of Marvel (the Marvel in Marvel-Schiebler aircraft
> carb's) was producing carbs for the model A's and about every other
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Attention Richard Goode |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew" <gfrew@attglobal.net>
Richard,
Could you contact me off list. I've tried sending you mails directly but they bounce.
Cheers,
Graeme Frew
Message 8
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| Subject: | Sintered Bronze Bushings |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Dennis Von Ruden
I've neglected to thank you in a timely manner regarding your post about
sintered bronze bushings for our shimmy dampers. So let me say thanks
now....THANKS. I've taken your post as valuable advice.
Regular lubrication seems to be the ticket to long life of most any
bushing (kind of related to earlier posts about frequent oil changes and
how it relates to long engine life). LUBE THOSE GEAR BUSHINGS GUYS!
I'm not too much of a machinist myself, I concentrate my studies toward
electronics, so I've forwarded what you wrote to my machinist to get his
opinion. Again, thanks for the info! It demonstrates once again the
reason why this list is so valuable!
Thanks Again!
Frank Haertlein
N9110M
PS Check out this link for some great action footage. Makes you wonder
why any arab terrorist would want to oppose us in any war! May take
awhile with a dial-up but worth it!
http://home.earthlink.net/~yak52driver/gatlinggun.wmv
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dennis Von Ruden"
--> <dvonruden@generalequip.com>
Frank:
We have use thousands and thousands of oil impregnated bearings in
construction products of our manufacture for over 50 years. There are a
number of materials available. You might want to do an internet search
for some updated information. I have experience with the typical bronze
(including the Super Oilite materials) and iron materials. Both work
very well as long as the engineering guidelines are maintained. Since
this is not a new engineering design. It's not rocket scientist 101.
It's really John Deere A technology. It's probably safe to assume the
standard bronze material will deliver very good service life as long as
they are properly machined or sized and lubricated. That's the secret.
Sleeve type bearings normally have PV factors that must be maintained to
maximize wear. PV factors take into account rotational speeds and
applied loads. We "size" the bearings with special broaches during
installation. We don't ream. These types of bearings will also have a
closure rate that needs to be considered if they are not "sized".
Closure is similar to a spring constant. The bearing actually closes or
"shrinks" when it is pressed into a casting or similar mounting
assembly. The closure rate can be easily calculated from the materials
supplied by the bearing manufacturer.
The iron alloy material works equally well and has higher load
capacities. In theory, it should have a longer service life over the
bronze material with the same, applied loads. Again, the correct
machining process is critically important so the microscopic cells are
not closed, thus preventing the impregnated oil from wicking. If that
happens, all you have is a bronze or iron bushing (not a bearing) with
minimal lubrication and reduced load properties.
Sleeve type bearings should never be greased. Grease only closes the
microscopic cells and leads to accelerated wear. Shaft finish (RMS) is
also critical to maximize bearing service life. A rough shaft (I like to
specify 16 RMS or better) will only accelerate bearing wear.
I have no experience with the aluminum bronze material, but would guess
the load capacity is reduced over the bronze and iron materials. But,
then again, Briggs and Stratton built millions of engines that had no
special sleeve bearing material. Machining tolerances and a thin oil
film from a splash system mowed a lot of grass over the years. You can't
argue with success.
A good machinist will study the engineering literature before producing
the parts. Tool insert design, speed and feed along with allowed
tolerances are very important. Nothing spooky. This data is readily
available from any material supplier.
Dennis Von Ruden
General Equipment Company
dvonruden@generalequip.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | MMO and oil changes |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steven A Johnson" <sajdds@comcast.net>
Mark
I truly appreciate all the information. When I examined the spark plugs
I did not really know what to look for. They were slightly dark with no
obvious deposits. At two of the examinations they were looked at by
people who know about such matters and they thought the plugs looked
good and did not need cleaning. What should I be looking for? I can
understand why you are considering flying a 50/50 mix of 93 octane
automobile fuel and 100 LL. Are you concerned with the potential damage
caused by alcohol and other additives. Again I do not have any
background in this area but the articles I have read scare me.
Regarding the frequency of oil change question: I know at least some of
the carbon is escaping from the engine with my oil because the oil
smeared all over the bottom of my plane is anything but clean. I am not
familiar with oil testing but does that tell you anything about the
quality of the oil? It would seam that with the correct type of test it
could be determined if my premise is correct that the oil reaches a
steady state prior to the point most people change it. What do oil tests
show? How often should they be done?
Steve
Yak 52, N9900X
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: MMO and oil changes |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
This is truly what this list is for!!!!!! Infomation for the masses.
On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:34:18 -0500, Steven A Johnson <sajdds@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Steven A Johnson" <sajdds@comcast.net>
>
> Mark
>
> I truly appreciate all the information. When I examined the spark plugs
> I did not really know what to look for. They were slightly dark with no
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