Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:08 AM - Re: RPA Dress Code (Mike Fagan)
2. 05:31 AM - Re: Re: Silly? (Ernest Martinez)
3. 05:41 AM - Commercial license (NapeOne@aol.com)
4. 05:58 AM - Re: RPA Dress Code (Steve Dalton)
5. 06:43 AM - Professionals (Schlafly Fred)
6. 06:58 AM - Nomex Thong? (Dean Courtney)
7. 07:07 AM - Re: Professionals (Mark Williamson)
8. 07:13 AM - Re: YAK-52 Airframe (Bill Geipel)
9. 07:16 AM - Re: Nomex Thong? (Steve & Donna Hanshew)
10. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: RPA Dress Code (Bill Geipel)
11. 07:36 AM - Re: Nomex Thong? (Bill Geipel)
12. 07:39 AM - Re: Nomex Thong? (Bill Geipel)
13. 07:53 AM - Re: Professionals (Matt Dralle)
14. 08:24 AM - Re: Professionals (Bill Geipel)
15. 08:27 AM - Re: fighters, helicopters, gunships, ()
16. 08:29 AM - Howard Hugh's flightsuit (Robert Starnes)
17. 08:42 AM - This ongoing discussion (SWP013@aol.com)
18. 08:44 AM - Pappy in a 50? (Tom Johnson)
19. 09:45 AM - Re: Howard Hugh's flightsuit ()
20. 10:52 AM - Re: Howard Hugh's flightsuit (Greg Young)
21. 03:27 PM - Re: (Frank Haertlein)
22. 03:38 PM - Re: This ongoing discussion (Frank Haertlein)
23. 03:50 PM - Re: Howard Hugh's flightsuit (Frank Haertlein)
24. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Howard Hugh's flightsuit ()
25. 08:33 PM - Re: Paint prep--IMPORTANT!!! (Lee Taylor)
26. 09:28 PM - Re: Paint prep--IMPORTANT!!! (Ernest Martinez)
27. 09:30 PM - Nomex and washing (Barry Hancock)
28. 09:31 PM - Re: Re: Howard Hugh's flightsuit (Ernest Martinez)
29. 09:35 PM - Re: Paint prep--IMPORTANT!!! (Barry Hancock)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RPA Dress Code |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Fagan" <sashalee@iafrica.com>
The canopy rides don't suprise me
Most Jet jocks get it all crossed up at some stage and throw away a large
chunk of the tax payers money..
The manufacturer knew that ego would exceed competence hence the bang seat
:)
Your point is totally valid and well presented
BR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Sweidan" <gerald.sweidan@sweidan.co.za>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: RPA Dress Code
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gerald Sweidan"
<gerald.sweidan@sweidan.co.za>
>
> Aahhh ..but no I3 I see - or even.... C150.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> cjpilot710@aol.com
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: RPA Dress Code
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
>
> Once again the old adage "Leading pilots is like trying to herd cats".
>
> "I am more professional than you!" syndrome.
> "I know better because I got more time than you!" syndrome.
> "I know better than you because I'm ex (Navy, Air Force, Army, Coast
> Guard,
> or CAP)" syndrome.
> "I know better than you because I flew (fighters, helicopters, gunships,
>
> Hogs, Super Hogs, B-36, B-52s, O2, O1, L-4, L-5, L-39s, Mig-15s, 29s,
> DC-3s
> B707, B777, etc etc etc) syndrome.
>
> Pretender? Yea verily I confess so. "But I do love it so."
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
> ATP, CFII, SES, Flight Navigator, Airframe mechanic, 23,823.35 hr.
> B-707,727,757,767, 777, 747, 747-400 -Flown DC-3, B-17, B-24J,
> AT-6/SNJ, T-33, T-34,
> T-41, Bell-47, 208A, Hiller 12b, R-22, J-3, 7AC-FC-EC, S-108-1, Pitts
> S1C,
> PT-17-19-22-23, UPF-7, LA-4, Yak-52 and CJ-6. FAI-NAA record holder
> and have
> made 7 parachute jumps (all round canopies).
>
>
Message 2
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I dont think RPA has enough clout on its own to enforce change, but
I'm willing to bet that the majority of the membership are members of
EAA and AOPA, as I am.
Maybe as a group we could send 1 petition letter to both
organisations, including all our names and membership numbers to those
respective organisations.
Perhaps this would convince them to use their legal muscle and
political clout to change this stupid rule.
Its a start.
Ernie
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:41:22 -0800, Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Charlie,
> You make good points, and I do apologize if I came
Message 3
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| Subject: | Commercial license |
--> Yak-List message posted by: NapeOne@aol.com
Why not get a commercial license? It is not difficult. Does take a little
time and money though.
David H.
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: RPA Dress Code |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve Dalton" <sdalton@goeaston.net>
I'll probably regret stepping into this discussion but:
I spent almost 15 years in the USAF flying F-4's and F-16's and wore a
bag (flight suit) everyday to work. Contrary to what's been posted on
this list, nobody ever told us they lost their protection by washing.
Every real fighter pilot out there today, including my son, have got
some that have been washed a hundred times, or more. I believe the
protection comes from the material itself, not some "coating" that
washes off. And the protection is measured in seconds.like one or two!
We never wore nomex underwear or socks either. We were told to wear
cotton underwear and socks. No nylon undies either.it melts to your
skin.not good. We also never wore hard toe or fire proof boots, just
plain ole leather boots. Navy guys probably wore steel toe boots in
case they tripped over the wire while walking on deck. And they were
probably wearing nylon undies...or perhaps silk ones.
When I was a young and dumb fighter pilot I rolled up my sleeves and
didn't wear gloves. I was bullet proof. Then one day I watched how an
airplane burns when hit by a missile...very bright and very fast. I
started rolling my sleeves down over my nomex gloves.
In my Yak I don't always wear a bag to go do 30 min of acro or to go
Xcountry. But, there is no way I'm flying formation without a bag. If
somebody screws up, hits me (or I hit them), I'm sitting on the fuel
lines. Seems like a good chance of a fire. That bag might give me a
couple extra seconds to leap out.
Personally...to each his own, like not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle
(probably good for the human gene pool). But IMHO, you're crazy to fly
formation in a Yak without wearing a bag. And if you refuse to wear one
I start to wonder what other sound advice you've chosen to ignore.like
not breaking out of formation if you lose sight of lead, trying to
salvage a crappy rejoin instead of flying a proper overshoot, etc.
Don't get me wrong. Wearing a bag doesn't make you a better pilot.
But, not wearing one while flying formation demonstrates to me that
safety may not be your first priority. In which case, I'd prefer you
not be three feet off my wing, or aiming at me in a rejoin.
Just my opinion, back to lurking.
Steve Dalton
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Schlafly Fred" <fschlafly@sprynet.com>
I enjoy reading the e-mails that are educational and safety related. However, there
have been many that are of little value. Can we cut back on the those?
Let's be professionals and work at making our flying safe and enjoyable.
Flightsuits: They look professional, help prevent FOD, and increase safety.
Fred
YAK-52
Message 6
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney" <deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
Gents,
May I suggest the Nomex Thong as an option. I have adopted one as my uniform
of choice for the Pitts Special (once I put on my parachute nothing else
would fit in the cockpit)
It is in fact Fire retardant, gets far more recognition at an airshow than
any green bag, and I am always referred to as "FAST", but never fly
formation. Additionally, velcro will adhere to body hair, so you can still
display all the patches that your organization, or ego might require.
If it is group or association recognition you seek, this can be achived with
a simple color choice,
Red (kevlar, steel & nomex blend required) for Pitts pilots, OD Green for
warbirds drivers, Brown for T34 pilots, and the always popular Pink for
people that fly aircraft with a nose wheel.
And on another fire fanning note: As far as needing a Commercial license to
do stuff?.....Christ!
Rise to the challenge! You MIGHT learn something. A pilot (any human for
that matter) that stops learning, is surely doomed....
Cheers,
Dean Courtney CFI/Pitts/Yak 50
Contact me if you want free dual towards your Commercial Certificate, but
you must wear a thong, that's my entitlist requirement.
Do not archive.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Professionals |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Williamson" <yakk52@verizon.net>
ditto. i've had my fill of flight suits, oil additives and character
assassination. this is ridiculous.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: YAK-52 Airframe |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bill Geipel <czech6@earthlink.net>
Call David Cannavo 302-378-1396 or
Al Tinnes 719-688-5718
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Haertlein <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Subject: Yak-List: YAK-52 Airframe
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Yakkers
I'm interested in buying a YAK-52 airframe less engine, cheap. A project
airframe is OK.
Anyone got any leads?
Thanks In advance
Frank
N9110M
Yak-52
L71
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve & Donna Hanshew" <dhanshew@cinci.rr.com>
No, No,
That will be confused with the GPA (Gay Pilot's Association) who prefer a
leather thong, Stroker's hat, and have nifty nicknames like Rex, Alain, and
Butch. Although, I think crowds swoon over their pink parachute canopies
with Peter Maxx murals on them. Their propensity to debrief in the OSH
showers after midnight is a bit odd, but I hear their formations are most
spectacular. You can catch them on Wings Channel at 3 am with "Straight Sky
for the Queer Guy."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dean Courtney
Subject: Yak-List: Nomex Thong?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney"
<deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
Gents,
May I suggest the Nomex Thong as an option. I have adopted one as my uniform
of choice for the Pitts Special (once I put on my parachute nothing else
would fit in the cockpit)
It is in fact Fire retardant, gets far more recognition at an airshow than
any green bag, and I am always referred to as "FAST", but never fly
formation. Additionally, velcro will adhere to body hair, so you can still
display all the patches that your organization, or ego might require.
If it is group or association recognition you seek, this can be achived with
a simple color choice,
Red (kevlar, steel & nomex blend required) for Pitts pilots, OD Green for
warbirds drivers, Brown for T34 pilots, and the always popular Pink for
people that fly aircraft with a nose wheel.
And on another fire fanning note: As far as needing a Commercial license to
do stuff?.....Christ!
Rise to the challenge! You MIGHT learn something. A pilot (any human for
that matter) that stops learning, is surely doomed....
Cheers,
Dean Courtney CFI/Pitts/Yak 50
Contact me if you want free dual towards your Commercial Certificate, but
you must wear a thong, that's my entitlist requirement.
Do not archive.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: RPA Dress Code |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bill Geipel <czech6@earthlink.net>
Safety is a personal agenda item. It should not be mandated.
They told us it looses protection.
Have you tried to burn one after washing it 100 times? Maybe there is some truth
to it? or maybe not.
I'm no expert, but I flew fighters. Never drank the kool-aid so I didn't always
believe what I was or wasn't told.
Silence speaks volumes, wouldn't you agree?
The fuel lines in a Cessna go right down the cockpit wall. Don't let the FAA know,
I don't want to wear one there!
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Dalton <sdalton@goeaston.net>
Subject: Yak-List: RE: RPA Dress Code
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve Dalton" <sdalton@goeaston.net>
I'll probably regret stepping into this discussion but:
I spent almost 15 years in the USAF flying F-4's and F-16's and wore a
bag (flight suit) everyday to work. Contrary to what's been posted on
this list, nobody ever told us they lost their protection by washing.
Every real fighter pilot out there today, including my son, have got
some that have been washed a hundred times, or more. I believe the
protection comes from the material itself, not some "coating" that
washes off. And the protection is measured in seconds.like one or two!
We never wore nomex underwear or socks either. We were told to wear
cotton underwear and socks. No nylon undies either.it melts to your
skin.not good. We also never wore hard toe or fire proof boots, just
plain ole leather boots. Navy guys probably wore steel toe boots in
case they tripped over the wire while walking on deck. And they were
probably wearing nylon undies...or perhaps silk ones.
When I was a young and dumb fighter pilot I rolled up my sleeves and
didn't wear gloves. I was bullet proof. Then one day I watched how an
airplane burns when hit by a missile...very bright and very fast. I
started rolling my sleeves down over my nomex gloves.
In my Yak I don't always wear a bag to go do 30 min of acro or to go
Xcountry. But, there is no way I'm flying formation without a bag. If
somebody screws up, hits me (or I hit them), I'm sitting on the fuel
lines. Seems like a good chance of a fire. That bag might give me a
couple extra seconds to leap out.
Personally...to each his own, like not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle
(probably good for the human gene pool). But IMHO, you're crazy to fly
formation in a Yak without wearing a bag. And if you refuse to wear one
I start to wonder what other sound advice you've chosen to ignore.like
not breaking out of formation if you lose sight of lead, trying to
salvage a crappy rejoin instead of flying a proper overshoot, etc.
Don't get me wrong. Wearing a bag doesn't make you a better pilot.
But, not wearing one while flying formation demonstrates to me that
safety may not be your first priority. In which case, I'd prefer you
not be three feet off my wing, or aiming at me in a rejoin.
Just my opinion, back to lurking.
Steve Dalton
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Nomex Thong? |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bill Geipel <czech6@earthlink.net>
Don't tease me you Stallion!
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Courtney <deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Nomex Thong?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney" <deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
Gents,
May I suggest the Nomex Thong as an option. I have adopted one as my uniform
of choice for the Pitts Special (once I put on my parachute nothing else
would fit in the cockpit)
It is in fact Fire retardant, gets far more recognition at an airshow than
any green bag, and I am always referred to as "FAST", but never fly
formation. Additionally, velcro will adhere to body hair, so you can still
display all the patches that your organization, or ego might require.
If it is group or association recognition you seek, this can be achived with
a simple color choice,
Red (kevlar, steel & nomex blend required) for Pitts pilots, OD Green for
warbirds drivers, Brown for T34 pilots, and the always popular Pink for
people that fly aircraft with a nose wheel.
And on another fire fanning note: As far as needing a Commercial license to
do stuff?.....Christ!
Rise to the challenge! You MIGHT learn something. A pilot (any human for
that matter) that stops learning, is surely doomed....
Cheers,
Dean Courtney CFI/Pitts/Yak 50
Contact me if you want free dual towards your Commercial Certificate, but
you must wear a thong, that's my entitlist requirement.
Do not archive.
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Bill Geipel <czech6@earthlink.net>
"Two's in" A hole new meaning.
Lets not go there. Thats funny. I don't care who you are. "Get'er done!
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve & Donna Hanshew <dhanshew@cinci.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Nomex Thong?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve & Donna Hanshew" <dhanshew@cinci.rr.com>
No, No,
That will be confused with the GPA (Gay Pilot's Association) who prefer a
leather thong, Stroker's hat, and have nifty nicknames like Rex, Alain, and
Butch. Although, I think crowds swoon over their pink parachute canopies
with Peter Maxx murals on them. Their propensity to debrief in the OSH
showers after midnight is a bit odd, but I hear their formations are most
spectacular. You can catch them on Wings Channel at 3 am with "Straight Sky
for the Queer Guy."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dean Courtney
Subject: Yak-List: Nomex Thong?
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dean Courtney"
<deancourtney696@hotmail.com>
Gents,
May I suggest the Nomex Thong as an option. I have adopted one as my uniform
of choice for the Pitts Special (once I put on my parachute nothing else
would fit in the cockpit)
It is in fact Fire retardant, gets far more recognition at an airshow than
any green bag, and I am always referred to as "FAST", but never fly
formation. Additionally, velcro will adhere to body hair, so you can still
display all the patches that your organization, or ego might require.
If it is group or association recognition you seek, this can be achived with
a simple color choice,
Red (kevlar, steel & nomex blend required) for Pitts pilots, OD Green for
warbirds drivers, Brown for T34 pilots, and the always popular Pink for
people that fly aircraft with a nose wheel.
And on another fire fanning note: As far as needing a Commercial license to
do stuff?.....Christ!
Rise to the challenge! You MIGHT learn something. A pilot (any human for
that matter) that stops learning, is surely doomed....
Cheers,
Dean Courtney CFI/Pitts/Yak 50
Contact me if you want free dual towards your Commercial Certificate, but
you must wear a thong, that's my entitlist requirement.
Do not archive.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Professionals |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
At 06:41 AM 2/26/2005 Saturday, you wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Schlafly Fred" <fschlafly@sprynet.com>
>
>I enjoy reading the e-mails that are educational and safety related.
>However, there have been many that are of little value. Can we cut back on
>the those?
>
>Let's be professionals and work at making our flying safe and enjoyable.
I agree. Some of the posts to the Yak list are boarding on tasteless and
offensive. This is unacceptable. From the List Usage Guidelines:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
Listers, I'm getting email complaining about the content lately. Please
let's think about the broad appeal and appropriateness of our posts before
we hit that send button...
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Professionals |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bill Geipel <czech6@earthlink.net>
Please send me the names of the complainers and I will personally apologize.
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Professionals
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
At 06:41 AM 2/26/2005 Saturday, you wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Schlafly Fred" <fschlafly@sprynet.com>
>
>I enjoy reading the e-mails that are educational and safety related.
>However, there have been many that are of little value. Can we cut back on
>the those?
>
>Let's be professionals and work at making our flying safe and enjoyable.
I agree. Some of the posts to the Yak list are boarding on tasteless and
offensive. This is unacceptable. From the List Usage Guidelines:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
Listers, I'm getting email complaining about the content lately. Please
let's think about the broad appeal and appropriateness of our posts before
we hit that send button...
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
List Admin
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: fighters, helicopters, gunships, |
--> Yak-List message posted by: <johnhilterman1@cox.net>
He'll end up buying one.
>
> From: "Kevin Pilling" <pilling.k@btconnect.com>
> Date: 2005/02/25 Fri AM 04:19:37 EST
> To: "yak-list@matronics. com" <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: fighters, helicopters, gunships,
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Kevin Pilling"
<pilling.k@btconnect.com>
>
> "Pappy" that's an hugely impressive CV ... + a couple I don't even
recognise....but the obvious 'hole' in your experience is the Yak
50...............come on you '50 owners face up and offer the man a couple
of hours on type !
>
> kp
>
> Remember sky is UP and cows' are DOWN.
>
>
> _-
============================================
=========================
> _-
============================================
=========================
> _-
============================================
=========================
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Howard Hugh's flightsuit |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
You guys seen the movie "The Aviator" yet? The XF-11
crash scene is pretty realistic to what happened in
real life.. If you are flying any airplane a flight
suit and full protection is not a bad idea.
Anybody familiar with the aviation painter Sam
Lyons? He had a crash in his Piper cub a few years
back. Sam will never be normal looking again.... And
his beautiful wife Vicki died in that crash in the
fire. She WOULD have probably survived had she worn a
flight suit.
Howard Hughes, "Macky" Steinhoff (Me-262's), the list
goes on.... I bet they would tell you to wear the
suit. My family depends on my income, so I try not to
take chances, How about you?
I don't wear a flight suit flying 172's or bonanza's
but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. If you don't
want to look like a top gun movie extra buy a suit in
some other color than green and leave the patches at
home....
just wanted to put my 2 cents in. I'll STFU now and
go work on the CJ....- Robert Starnes
__________________________________
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
Message 17
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| Subject: | This ongoing discussion |
--> Yak-List message posted by: SWP013@aol.com
Like Steve Dalton, I've been reluctant to dive into this discussion. Can't
stand it anymore. While a member of RPA, I have yet to attend an event.
So, maybe my comments won't hold much sway. But here goes.
Been pretty impressed with what I know about RPA from this list, the
web-site, and some eyewitness reports from last year's All Red Star event. Seems
like the organization is doing good work and heading in the right direction.
Organization.
Don't see it as a "paramilitary" organization. That word always seems to
have bad connotations. It most definitely is, however, an organization modeled
after those in military flying operations.
Like a lot of RPA members I'm a former military pilot. Grew up a military
brat too. Played a lot of baseball in my younger years. Still flying for an
airline. Uniforms all over the place so obviously they've never been a big
deal to me. Just put them on and go to work. Tried to wear them properly and
look good in them. Didn't and don't mind being part of the team. That's
what I signed up for.
I remember one of my early wing commanders posing a question to us during a
safety down day. We were all gathered at the officers club for the mandatory
pilot meeting. He asked us how many thought that safety was paramount in
our flying business? Of course we all shot our hands up. Almost immediately
he said,"bullshit!!" "Safety", he said, "is nothing more than a byproduct of
professional flying."
This uniform requirement, to be able participate in RPA formation flying,
can be viewed the same way. It's about approaching a pretty dynamic and
intense type of flying professionally. When you start the suit up process, you
knowingly, or unknowingly, begin to fly formation. The mind-set begins that
takes you through the brief, the mission, and the debrief. While there are no
guarantees, odds are, with everyone on that same sheet of music from the get
go, things go more smoothly. With the varied membership of RPA this sheet of
music is even more important.
As far as leading the formations is concerned, like all military aviators, I
spent a lot of time on the wing. Then through a structured flight lead
upgrade program before I was allowed to lead. Sounds like we have the same setup
in RPA. Can't be a bad thing to have to leap some hurdles before you get to
lead.
My two or three cents worth. Hope they're not too disjointed and somewhat
useful. Pretty simple stuff really.
Sam Patellos
Yak-52 with Dennis Doonan
N444YK
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
Pappy in a 50? .. . .
Tj
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Howard Hugh's flightsuit |
--> Yak-List message posted by: <johnhilterman1@cox.net>
Against my better judgement, I offer this observation (Frosty/Freezer, you
can privately flog me later)
I witnessed a friend of mine eject from his F-14 after hitting the arse end of
the boat during a night recovery. Broke the airplane in half with the front
end going into the drink and the back end actually catching a wire (#3 no
less for you carrier types) and stopping on the flight deck. 5 seconds later
he parachute landed into the raging inferno on the flight deck. He literally
rolled around in burning JP-5 until the CFR guys pulled him out. He was
wearing a flight suit and gloves obviously but had his sleeves rolled up.
The only severe burns he received were on his exposed forearms and neck
area. The nomex he wore saved his life no question and he lived to fly
fighters again.
My point is this. I don't give a rats ass if flight suits are mandatory or not.
I'm wearing one (gloves too) because it protects my pink body, period. If
it's 100 degrees outside, I'm still wearing it. If people think I'm wearing it
to look cool, fine. I don't care what other people think. If the rules change
not requiring flight suits, fine. If you choose not to wear one that's fine too
but I'll think you're taking an unnecessary risk. Kind of like going to the
merge and not calling "left to left" or "right to right"
Frosty/Freezer/et al......commence flogging.
Hitman
>
> From: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
> Date: 2005/02/26 Sat AM 11:28:55 EST
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Howard Hugh's flightsuit
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Robert Starnes <a35plt@yahoo.com>
>
> You guys seen the movie "The Aviator" yet? The XF-11
> crash scene is pretty realistic to what happened in
> real life.. If you are flying any airplane a flight
> suit and full protection is not a bad idea.
> Anybody familiar with the aviation painter Sam
> Lyons? He had a crash in his Piper cub a few years
> back. Sam will never be normal looking again.... And
> his beautiful wife Vicki died in that crash in the
> fire. She WOULD have probably survived had she worn a
> flight suit.
> Howard Hughes, "Macky" Steinhoff (Me-262's), the list
> goes on.... I bet they would tell you to wear the
> suit. My family depends on my income, so I try not to
> take chances, How about you?
> I don't wear a flight suit flying 172's or bonanza's
> but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. If you don't
> want to look like a top gun movie extra buy a suit in
> some other color than green and leave the patches at
> home....
> just wanted to put my 2 cents in. I'll STFU now and
> go work on the CJ....- Robert Starnes
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
>
>
> _-
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>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Howard Hugh's flightsuit |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
You can divorce the flight suit image issue from safety. They do make Nomex
clothing that looks like work shirts and pants. They are used by many in oil
& gas plants rather than FRC's. You CAN look like a regular guy and still be
protected if you choose.
Greg
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Barry
Relax, it was explained about 20 posts ago that it was a commercial
+1000. I was me who remembered it wrong.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Hancock
Subject:
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
On Feb 24, 2005, at 11:59 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> During my first visit to Red Stars I was told that unless you had an
> ATP
> (or maybe it was a commercial with 10000 hours or something like that)
> that you could never become lead. It was part of the training class.
Hold on a minute...there were approximately 20 others at that class,
anyone else recall hearing that???
First, that information is not only unequivocally false, and it was
never said by anyone teaching a training class, that I will guarantee.
Second, ATP or commercial with 100000 hours? Uhhhhhh, two very
different things, which was it?
Look, I absolutely HATE to continue to get involved in this stuff, but
when patently false information is publicly distributed about an event
that represents the entire community I think I need to set the record
straight.
Speaking of ARS, the new web site and registration should open any
day....hang in there...
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
Event Director
All Red Star
(949) 300-5510
www.allredstar.com
"A Unique Aviation Experience"
Message 22
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| Subject: | This ongoing discussion |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Sam
Did you have you commercial +1000 when the military let you fly lead?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SWP013@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: This ongoing discussion
--> Yak-List message posted by: SWP013@aol.com
Like Steve Dalton, I've been reluctant to dive into this discussion.
Can't
stand it anymore. While a member of RPA, I have yet to attend an
event.
So, maybe my comments won't hold much sway. But here goes.
Been pretty impressed with what I know about RPA from this list, the
web-site, and some eyewitness reports from last year's All Red Star
event. Seems
like the organization is doing good work and heading in the right
direction.
Organization.
Don't see it as a "paramilitary" organization. That word always seems
to
have bad connotations. It most definitely is, however, an organization
modeled
after those in military flying operations.
Like a lot of RPA members I'm a former military pilot. Grew up a
military
brat too. Played a lot of baseball in my younger years. Still flying
for an
airline. Uniforms all over the place so obviously they've never been a
big
deal to me. Just put them on and go to work. Tried to wear them
properly and
look good in them. Didn't and don't mind being part of the team.
That's
what I signed up for.
I remember one of my early wing commanders posing a question to us
during a
safety down day. We were all gathered at the officers club for the
mandatory
pilot meeting. He asked us how many thought that safety was paramount
in
our flying business? Of course we all shot our hands up. Almost
immediately
he said,"bullshit!!" "Safety", he said, "is nothing more than a
byproduct of
professional flying."
This uniform requirement, to be able participate in RPA formation
flying,
can be viewed the same way. It's about approaching a pretty dynamic
and
intense type of flying professionally. When you start the suit up
process, you
knowingly, or unknowingly, begin to fly formation. The mind-set begins
that
takes you through the brief, the mission, and the debrief. While there
are no
guarantees, odds are, with everyone on that same sheet of music from
the get
go, things go more smoothly. With the varied membership of RPA this
sheet of
music is even more important.
As far as leading the formations is concerned, like all military
aviators, I
spent a lot of time on the wing. Then through a structured flight lead
upgrade program before I was allowed to lead. Sounds like we have the
same setup
in RPA. Can't be a bad thing to have to leap some hurdles before you
get to
lead.
My two or three cents worth. Hope they're not too disjointed and
somewhat
useful. Pretty simple stuff really.
Sam Patellos
Yak-52 with Dennis Doonan
N444YK
Message 23
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| Subject: | Howard Hugh's flightsuit |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
"They do make Nomex clothing that looks like work shirts and pants.
Thanks, Greg.........What do you flight suit guys say now? Come on, I
want to hear it!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young
Subject: RE: Yak-List: Howard Hugh's flightsuit
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
You can divorce the flight suit image issue from safety. They do make
Nomex clothing that looks like work shirts and pants. They are used by
many in oil & gas plants rather than FRC's. You CAN look like a regular
guy and still be protected if you choose.
Greg
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Howard Hugh's flightsuit |
--> Yak-List message posted by: <johnhilterman1@cox.net>
Outstanding! If you decide to protect yourself with Nomex work shirts
and pants, knock yourself out and go buy them at probably three times
the cost of a flight suit to prove your point. Wouldn't want anyone to
think their "rights" are being trampled. I'll think you're an idiot proving
your point this way but hey, it's a free country. I don't care what you
look like when you fly with me. All I care about is that you don't hit me
when flying form or doing ACM.
Hitman
Frosty/Freezer......I know, I know.
>
> From: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
> Date: 2005/02/26 Sat PM 06:50:26 EST
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Howard Hugh's flightsuit
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
>
> "They do make Nomex clothing that looks like work shirts and pants.
>
> Thanks, Greg.........What do you flight suit guys say now? Come on, I
> want to hear it!
>
> Frank
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Young
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: Howard Hugh's flightsuit
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-
sol.com>
>
> You can divorce the flight suit image issue from safety. They do make
> Nomex clothing that looks like work shirts and pants. They are used
by
> many in oil & gas plants rather than FRC's. You CAN look like a regular
> guy and still be protected if you choose.
>
> Greg
>
>
> _-
============================================
=========================
> _-
============================================
=========================
> _-
============================================
=========================
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Paint prep--IMPORTANT!!! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@comcast.net>
BARRY!!! RED FLAG!!! Re your note about paint prep!!!
D-O N-O-T, I repeat, DO NOT!!! Use steel wool to sand the bare metal
after stripping and cleaning!!!!!!!! Use either STAINLESS steel wool,
or better, one of the Scotchbrite pads.
Steel wool, OR A STEEL WIRE BRUSH, will impregnate your aluminum
with microscopic bits of steel imbedded in the aluminum, and that makes
an electrolytic reaction. Read CORROSION!!!! Corrosion that cannot be
stopped. It will take a few (several) years, but your aluminum skin
will be GONE.
Don't use either steel wool, a steel wire brush, or for that
matter, a lead pencil EVER on bare aluminum. All for the same
reason---they will form an electrolytic reaction with the aluminum, and
CAUSE CORROSION.
Again, use only stainless steel wool, a stainless steel wire
brush, or Scotchbrite pads.
When I was in A&P school, a demonstration was shown--a circle
was drawn with a lead pencil, and then the sample allowed to corrode. A
perfect circle dropped out of the sample. Just like it had been cut.
Lee Taylor
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Paint prep--IMPORTANT!!! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I think it was made clear to NOT use steel anything near aluminum.
I'm sandblasting my plane with depleted uranium shavings, donated to
me by some guy named Mohamed.
Ernie
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:34:37 -0700, Lee Taylor <leetay@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@comcast.net>
>
> BARRY!!! RED FLAG!!! Re your note about paint prep!!!
>
> D-O N-O-T, I repeat, DO NOT!!! Use steel wool to sand the bare metal
> after stripping and cleaning!!!!!!!! Use either
Message 27
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| Subject: | Nomex and washing |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
> They told us it looses protection.
> Have you tried to burn one after washing it 100 times? Maybe there is
> some truth
> to it? or maybe not.
It *used* to be the truth. In the not very recent past, however, the
fire protection began being woven into the fabric, and thus does not
fade after multiple washings....this information straight from Frank at
Flight Suits. If anyone was gonna tell you that you need to buy new
bags to keep yourself as flame retarded as possible, it'd be them.
Barry
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Howard Hugh's flightsuit |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
For gods sakes, drop the flight suit thread!!!!!!!
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Paint prep--IMPORTANT!!! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <radialpower@cox.net>
> Again, use only stainless steel wool, a stainless steel wire
> brush, or Scotchbrite pads
Lee, I had already corrected my misuse of words....Scotchbrite is what
I meant to say, not steel wool. Thanks for the visual on using a lead
pencil, tho!
Cheers,
Barry
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