Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:17 AM - Re: Flight suits aside (Ron Davis)
2. 04:51 AM - Re; Bowing out (Tim Gagnon)
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Reprinted with permission.....(and modified for clarity) ()
4. 06:34 AM - Re: help report. (Mills, Bill)
5. 06:40 AM - Reprinted with permission.....(and modified for clarity) (MFilucci@aol.com)
6. 07:34 AM - Re: help report. (Ernest Martinez)
7. 09:17 AM - Missing Man (Ernest Martinez)
8. 09:39 AM - Re: Yak-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/28/05 (Cj6sly@cs.com)
9. 04:12 PM - Re: Reprinted with permission.....(and modified for clarity) ()
10. 04:46 PM - Lead qualifications (Barry Hancock)
11. 06:12 PM - Re: Lead qualifications (Greg Young)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Flight suits aside |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
So the whole RPA board is wannabes?
>Would a truly elitist group allow such a thing? After all, I'm young,
>relatively inexperienced, have butted heads with powers that be on
>certain issues, etc.
>
>My fellow board members (voted on by you all - or at least you had that
>opportunity) include:
>
>Al Devere - about the same boat as me.
>Harry Dutson - no military or commercial aviation flying experience
>Charlie Lynch - no military or commercial aviation flying experience
Message 2
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Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 07:50:03 -0500
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Tim Gagnon" <NiftyYak50@msn.com>
Hitman,
I will take March and we can alternate. As of Today, nothing to report.
I am weaning myself off this crack pipe ever so slowly.
Tim
By the way, I may have found you a somewhat local (Dallas area) sparring partner.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Reprinted with permission.....(and modified for clarity) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: <johnhilterman1@cox.net>
If you're calling me a "punk," why don't you wait until ARS and say it to my
face.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frank Haertlein
Subject: Yak-List: Reprinted with permission.....(and modified for
clarity)
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein"
<yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Thanks for writing back, "name deleted". I'm in agreement that you
should have some time under your belt for lead or even wingman training.
I've been doing aerobatics since 1988, off and on, and would say that I
can handle an airplane better than most.... yet somehow, somebody has
said a commercial ticket is more valuable for lead qualification. In my
opinion, a lead or wingman with extensive aerobatic training more highly
valued than a straight and level "commercial guy". Without aerobatic
training do you really know and understand the handling and limits of
your airplane? I highly doubt it.
Who would you rather have on your wing? A guy who's racked up his time
by countless boring hours in straight and level (your typical commercial
pilot) or someone who's gone thru an aerobatics training regimen with
hundreds of hours in actual aerobatic flight?
I would think that flying in close proximity to other aircraft you would
want to fly next to someone that can really handle his airplane. In my
opinion, a commercial isn't really necessary.....it's more of an elitist
thing. Demonstrated proficiency should be the real clincher.
I was voicing my opinion when I posted my two objections to the YAK list
i.e. do away with the commercial requirement and the mandatory flight
suit requirement. Considering the lashing I got I really don't expect a
change in the rules.
You may know where California City is located (where I live) and if so
you'll also know that there's allot of AF military in this area. Call it
a spillover from Edwards AFB if you will. There's an RV club here that
engages in formation training activities.....the larger part of them
being active or retired military. Interesting how they don't wear flight
suits while flying formation.
As regards the YAK-List postings, I was surprised by the number of
people who responded that flight suits should be optional.
Best Regards and HAVE FUN!
Frank
PS. You may have a hard time understanding this (given the recent
bashing I got on the list) but I support Red Stars. They've done more
than any other organization in training their members and in promoting
our airplanes. As a member myself, I feel that I have a right to state
my opinion and I'll be goddammed if I'll let any "post and run" punks
shut me up!
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mills, Bill" <Bill.Mills@Avnet.com>
I giggle in your general direction.......
; )
Bill Mills
Avnet Partner Solutions
"Because I Fly......I envy no man on Earth"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cjpilot710@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: help report.
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Annual inspection have always cause me a sense of dread. If it is not
something you FIND during inspection but something you DO during
inspections that make things worse. Take oil leaks. Actually very
minor oil seeps in this case. "Mere nothings" on a radial engine. You
know the old adage for radial engines, "If it ant' leaking oil, it ant'
got any oil in it".
And so starts this saga.
We were test running the engine (M-14P) after doing the normal
compression test, checking valve clearances, oil screens and filter, and
clean up to check for leaks. Sure enough, we found 3 mere seeps at the
base of the push rod guides, right at the engine crank case. My baby
brother and my own private A&P decided they needed to be fixed. Those
of you who really know the M-14P can see what's coming. We got one of
the guides a little to high off the case and we lost a pin that holds
the roller. The roller, its insert, and pin, fell down into the cam
gear section of the engine.
Yours truly, proceeded to throw a tantrum unbefitting a person of my
stature and grace. In the process I broke my bifocals. Scared my baby
brother.
In order to retrieve said pin, roller, and insert. PLUS reassemble the
whole shebang, one needs to do the following.
1. Put #4 piston at top dead center AND DO NOT MOVE.
2. Remove propeller.
3. Remove gill shutters.
4. Remove propeller governor.
5. Remove flexible oil line between case and sump.
6. Remove nose section of engine (gear reduction section).
7. Remove the bull gear from the crank shaft. This required a special
socket which took me 4 days and $200 to have made.
8. Remove the front web to the cam section. I needed to buy a large
gear puller and modifying it.
There is no short cut here. If you drop anything into the cam section,
you are in for at least 3 to 4 hours work IF you have all the special
tools and know where things are at. This translates into 4 or 5 days
works if it's your first time and no tools.
Now remember this! Once you're in the cam section, DO NOT MOVE THE CAM
GEAR!!!!!
If you move either the cam gear or crank shaft, you are in deep Kim-she
unless you really know what you're doing and know how to set the M-14
cam timing.
Once you've recovered the parts, than replaced the gasket and "O" ring
at the base of the guide, inserted it back into the case, and than
reassemble the roller, insert, pin, spring, and push rod seat, you are
ready to reverse the steps above.
I'm leaving out a whole lots of details here, simply because I'm tired
of messing with this whole thing. But one thing I will tell you, if the
push rod guide at the engine case is seeping oil, first just tighten
the nuts and make sure it's not the rubber hose above it that is
leaking. Than LEAVE THE FUCKERS A LONE!!!
BUT, if you simply must do it, call me or Vladimir, for a possible way
of doing it. NO GARRENTIES.
Yes, my engine is up and running smoothly (and dry) again.
My new trifocals cost $300.
And yes, I still love my baby brother.
You're's truly,
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
Message 5
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| Subject: | Reprinted with permission.....(and modified for clarity) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 3/1/05 8:52:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
johnhilterman1@cox.net writes:
Who would you rather have on your wing? A guy who's racked up his time
by countless boring hours in straight and level (your typical commercial
pilot) or someone who's gone thru an aerobatics training regimen with
hundreds of hours in actual aerobatic flight?
I would think that flying in close proximity to other aircraft you would
want to fly next to someone that can really handle his airplane. In my
opinion, a commercial isn't really necessary.....it's more of an elitist
thing. Demonstrated proficiency should be the real clincher.
Actually, flying Lead is more about someone who can handle their brain. This
whole focus and obsession on the Commercial certificate completely misses
the point. Here are a couple of important considerations extracted from the
FAST Foundations and Principles document and from the Lead Pilot Practical Test
Guide:
"For the national formation program to succeed and continue, it is critical
that there be a system to both train new formation pilots and to provide for
maintaining the proficiency of all formation pilots. The flight leaders must
do this. While not required, it is desirable that a flight leader have a
background in flight training, such as CFI, military flight lead, air carrier
flight instructor, or a civil or military check airman."
"Leadership ability is the most important quality that must be evaluated in
each candidate for the FAST Flight Lead test. It is to this standard that all
maneuvers and briefings will be evaluated."
"Decisions made by a Lead Pilot can literally involve life or death.
Decisions that affect the safety of a flight of multiple aircraft must be made
rapidly, and be based on a sound foundation of aeronautical experience and
knowledge."
"The bottom line is that the selection of flight leader candidates is the
cornerstone of the FAST program. It is not an honorary position and the
candidates should represent the most knowledgeable, best qualified, and most
importantly, the best leaders."
These are just a few of the guidelines that are spelled out in our governing
documents -- there is much, much more (and it's all available to you on the
RPA website) but I think you get the point. I don't know why the original
founders of FAST stipulated that a Commercial certificate be required but I do
know that what is expected of you as a Lead Pilot goes well beyond the simple
requirements of a Commercial certificate.
I also know that we have a terrific, talented, and dedicated group of
volunteer instructors who are ready to work with any of our members to help achieve
whatever goals/quals you wish to pursue.
Mike
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: help report. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Cam gear Socket $200
Tri-focals $300
Seeing Pappy have a tantrum...........priceless.
Ernie
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:14:14 EST, cjpilot710@aol.com <cjpilot710@aol.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> Annual inspection have always cause me a sense of dread. If it is not
> something you FIND during inspection but something you DO during inspections
that
> make things worse. Take oil leaks. Actually very minor oil seeps in this
> case. "Mere nothings" on a radial engine. You know the old adage for radial
> engines, "If it ant' leaking oil, it ant' got any oil in it".
>
> And so starts this saga.
>
> We were test running the engine (M-14P) after doing the normal compression
> test, checking valve clearances, oil screens and filter, and clean up to check
> for leaks. Sure enough, we found 3 mere seeps at the base of the push rod
> guides, right at the engine crank case. My baby brother and my own private
> A&P decided they needed to be fixed. Those of you who really know the M-14P
> can see what's coming. We got one of the guides a little to high off the case
> and we lost a pin that holds the roller. The roller, its insert, and pin,
> fell down into the cam gear section of the engine.
>
> Yours truly, proceeded to throw a tantrum unbefitting a person of my stature
> and grace. In the process I broke my bifocals. Scared my baby brother.
>
> In order to retrieve said pin, roller, and insert. PLUS reassemble the
> whole shebang, one needs to do the following.
> 1. Put #4 piston at top dead center AND DO NOT MOVE.
> 2. Remove propeller.
> 3. Remove gill shutters.
> 4. Remove propeller governor.
> 5. Remove flexible oil line between case and sump.
> 6. Remove nose section of engine (gear reduction section).
> 7. Remove the bull gear from the crank shaft. This required a special
> socket which took me 4 days and $200 to have made.
> 8. Remove the front web to the cam section. I needed to buy a large gear
> puller and modifying it.
>
> There is no short cut here. If you drop anything into the cam section, you
> are in for at least 3 to 4 hours work IF you have all the special tools and
> know where things are at. This translates into 4 or 5 days works if it's your
> first time and no tools.
>
> Now remember this! Once you're in the cam section, DO NOT MOVE THE CAM
> GEAR!!!!!
>
> If you move either the cam gear or crank shaft, you are in deep Kim-she
> unless you really know what you're doing and know how to set the M-14 cam timing.
>
> Once you've recovered the parts, than replaced the gasket and "O" ring at
> the base of the guide, inserted it back into the case, and than reassemble the
> roller, insert, pin, spring, and push rod seat, you are ready to reverse the
> steps above.
>
> I'm leaving out a whole lots of details here, simply because I'm tired of
> messing with this whole thing. But one thing I will tell you, if the push rod
> guide at the engine case is seeping oil, first just tighten the nuts and make
> sure it's not the rubber hose above it that is leaking. Than LEAVE THE
> FUCKERS A LONE!!!
>
> BUT, if you simply must do it, call me or Vladimir, for a possible way of
> doing it. NO GARRENTIES.
>
> Yes, my engine is up and running smoothly (and dry) again.
> My new trifocals cost $300.
>
> And yes, I still love my baby brother.
>
> You're's truly,
>
> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Wheres Brian Lloyd been, I cant beleive that he didnt partake in the
last round of beating a dead horse into an undulating pile of jello.
Ernie
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Yak-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/28/05 |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Cj6sly@cs.com
In a message dated 3/1/2005 12:59:51 AM Mountain Standard Time,
yak-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> d info
> that's of use to the rest of your buds so that all of us don't have to put
> up with the drivel. We could call this person the "duty beeyatch"
>
Or how about "Queen for a Day?"
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Reprinted with permission.....(and modified for clarity) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: <johnhilterman1@cox.net>
Get your facts straight.....I didn't say or write any of that.
>
> From: MFilucci@aol.com
> Date: 2005/03/01 Tue AM 09:40:09 EST
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Reprinted with permission.....(and modified for
clarity)
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 3/1/05 8:52:39 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> johnhilterman1@cox.net writes:
>
> Who would you rather have on your wing? A guy who's racked up his
time
> by countless boring hours in straight and level (your typical
commercial
> pilot) or someone who's gone thru an aerobatics training regimen
with
> hundreds of hours in actual aerobatic flight?
>
> I would think that flying in close proximity to other aircraft you would
> want to fly next to someone that can really handle his airplane. In my
> opinion, a commercial isn't really necessary.....it's more of an elitist
> thing. Demonstrated proficiency should be the real clincher.
>
>
> Actually, flying Lead is more about someone who can handle their
brain. This
> whole focus and obsession on the Commercial certificate completely
misses
> the point. Here are a couple of important considerations extracted
from the
> FAST Foundations and Principles document and from the Lead Pilot
Practical Test
> Guide:
>
> "For the national formation program to succeed and continue, it is
critical
> that there be a system to both train new formation pilots and to
provide for
> maintaining the proficiency of all formation pilots. The flight leaders
must
> do this. While not required, it is desirable that a flight leader have a
> background in flight training, such as CFI, military flight lead, air
carrier
> flight instructor, or a civil or military check airman."
>
> "Leadership ability is the most important quality that must be
evaluated in
> each candidate for the FAST Flight Lead test. It is to this standard that
all
> maneuvers and briefings will be evaluated."
>
> "Decisions made by a Lead Pilot can literally involve life or death.
> Decisions that affect the safety of a flight of multiple aircraft must be
made
> rapidly, and be based on a sound foundation of aeronautical
experience and
> knowledge."
>
> "The bottom line is that the selection of flight leader candidates is the
> cornerstone of the FAST program. It is not an honorary position and
the
> candidates should represent the most knowledgeable, best qualified,
and most
> importantly, the best leaders."
>
> These are just a few of the guidelines that are spelled out in our
governing
> documents -- there is much, much more (and it's all available to you
on the
> RPA website) but I think you get the point. I don't know why the
original
> founders of FAST stipulated that a Commercial certificate be required
but I do
> know that what is expected of you as a Lead Pilot goes well beyond
the simple
> requirements of a Commercial certificate.
>
> I also know that we have a terrific, talented, and dedicated group of
> volunteer instructors who are ready to work with any of our members
to help achieve
> whatever goals/quals you wish to pursue.
>
> Mike
>
>
> _-
============================================
=========================
> _-
============================================
=========================
> _-
============================================
=========================
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Lead qualifications |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
Well, I just read what Mike F. wrote and it pretty much said
everything, but I had written most of this this morning, so I'll just
add my .02 since I went to the effort....
On Feb 28, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> In my
> opinion, a lead or wingman with extensive aerobatic training more
> highly
> valued than a straight and level "commercial guy".
While not aerobatic, a Commercial ticket forces a pilot to demonstrate
very precise control of his aircraft (check the Commercial PTS). I too
fly lots of acro and also feel I am better than most, but I also found
that flying a true Lazy 8 or Chandelle, while boring, was extremely
difficult to fly precisely. I believe "can't I just do a freakin' wing
over?" was my comment.
Commerical pilots must also have a higher level of understanding of the
regulations (Lead pilots are responsible for ALL aspects of their
flight) and demonstrate a higher level of composure and performance
under pressure than a Private Pilot.
I have no doubt that there are many among us that are not Commercially
rated that are very capable of being Lead pilots, but the Commercial
ticket demonstrates a quantifiable level of commitment and achievement
in aviation, and that you have paid (yes, literally too, I know) your
dues.
Being a Lead pilot is not about your stick and rudder skills....they
don't have to be that great, actually (though it is nice when a Lead
can fly smoothly! :) ). Being a Lead is about head work, having good
SA, thinking ahead, and the ability to think and maneuver for 4
airplanes in sometimes very congested airshow airspace, though the
latter you can do with a Wing card.
Perhaps (pure speculation on my part) that this was some of the
rationale that went into the Commercial stipulation.
The only tangible reasons to have a Lead card are to be able to
recommend others for check rides, sign proficiency reports, if you have
check pilot aspirations, ego, and a few other incidental things.
Besides, once your a "Lead" that's all you'll be asked to
do....personally, I'd rather be in the slot!
Cheers,
Barry
Message 11
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| Subject: | Lead qualifications |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
You're right, it's absolutely about judgment. Leaving out names, etc. to
protect the guilty, not long ago there was a lead who launched his formation
for a return trip in marginal weather. He then decided to lead them thru a
hole that turned out too small. When they lost contact and split off one
aircraft couldn't cope with IMC and augured in killing the man and his wife.
That lead killed the couple just as surely as if he put a gun to their heads
but he's still at it. Go figure.
Greg
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
>
> Well, I just read what Mike F. wrote and it pretty much said
> everything, but I had written most of this this morning, so
> I'll just add my .02 since I went to the effort....
> On Feb 28, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
>
> > In my
> > opinion, a lead or wingman with extensive aerobatic training more
> > highly valued than a straight and level "commercial guy".
>
> While not aerobatic, a Commercial ticket forces a pilot to
> demonstrate very precise control of his aircraft (check the
> Commercial PTS). I too fly lots of acro and also feel I am
> better than most, but I also found that flying a true Lazy 8
> or Chandelle, while boring, was extremely difficult to fly
> precisely. I believe "can't I just do a freakin' wing over?"
> was my comment.
>
> Commerical pilots must also have a higher level of
> understanding of the regulations (Lead pilots are responsible
> for ALL aspects of their
> flight) and demonstrate a higher level of composure and
> performance under pressure than a Private Pilot.
>
> I have no doubt that there are many among us that are not
> Commercially rated that are very capable of being Lead
> pilots, but the Commercial ticket demonstrates a quantifiable
> level of commitment and achievement in aviation, and that you
> have paid (yes, literally too, I know) your dues.
>
> Being a Lead pilot is not about your stick and rudder
> skills....they don't have to be that great, actually (though
> it is nice when a Lead can fly smoothly! :) ). Being a Lead
> is about head work, having good SA, thinking ahead, and the
> ability to think and maneuver for 4 airplanes in sometimes
> very congested airshow airspace, though the latter you can do
> with a Wing card.
>
> Perhaps (pure speculation on my part) that this was some of
> the rationale that went into the Commercial stipulation.
>
> The only tangible reasons to have a Lead card are to be able
> to recommend others for check rides, sign proficiency
> reports, if you have check pilot aspirations, ego, and a few
> other incidental things.
> Besides, once your a "Lead" that's all you'll be asked to
> do....personally, I'd rather be in the slot!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Barry
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