Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Re: Lead qualifications (Lance Robb)
2. 12:24 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
3. 04:24 AM - Reprinted with permission.....(and modified for clarity) (MFilucci@aol.com)
4. 10:37 AM - Re: Lead qualifications (Yakjock)
5. 11:52 AM - Terry Calloway (ByronMFox@aol.com)
6. 12:02 PM - Re: Lead qualifications (Roger Kemp)
7. 02:16 PM - Leeward Mini Clinic (Ernest Martinez)
8. 02:48 PM - Re: Leeward Mini Clinic (Terry)
9. 06:01 PM - FLA Mini-clinic (cpayne@joimail.com)
10. 07:52 PM - Re: [SPAM] - Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in (Jay Land)
11. 08:19 PM - Re: [SPAM] - Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject (Ernest Martinez)
12. 08:23 PM - Re: [SPAM] - Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject (Roger Kemp)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Lead qualifications |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lance Robb" <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
Here in Oz we don't have any distinction between lead and wingman in a
formation. What happens is when you are trained (by a suitably qualified
instructor) you are trained in lead and wing positions but have no
privileges to either instruct or certify any other pilot in formation
flying. This does have a number of set backs the most obvious being that
once you have decided you want to get your form endorsement you have to try
to find someone who can train and examine you.
Personally I have to agree with Barry in that there is a lot more
responsibility in flying lead but it's much more challenging to fly out on
the wing......specially when you are 4th ship out!!
I think it's all about pilot experience, discipline and proficiency and
after all there is really only 1 lead pilot and any number of wingmen,
surely you want your most suitable pilot up front........Anyway I'm just
happy to get a slot rather than be left standing on the ground looking up!!
My 2 cents worth .......for what it's worth.
Lance Robb
NQ Warbirds Australia
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry Hancock
Subject: Yak-List: Lead qualifications
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
Well, I just read what Mike F. wrote and it pretty much said
everything, but I had written most of this this morning, so I'll just
add my .02 since I went to the effort....
On Feb 28, 2005, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote:
> In my
> opinion, a lead or wingman with extensive aerobatic training more
> highly
> valued than a straight and level "commercial guy".
While not aerobatic, a Commercial ticket forces a pilot to demonstrate
very precise control of his aircraft (check the Commercial PTS). I too
fly lots of acro and also feel I am better than most, but I also found
that flying a true Lazy 8 or Chandelle, while boring, was extremely
difficult to fly precisely. I believe "can't I just do a freakin' wing
over?" was my comment.
Commerical pilots must also have a higher level of understanding of the
regulations (Lead pilots are responsible for ALL aspects of their
flight) and demonstrate a higher level of composure and performance
under pressure than a Private Pilot.
I have no doubt that there are many among us that are not Commercially
rated that are very capable of being Lead pilots, but the Commercial
ticket demonstrates a quantifiable level of commitment and achievement
in aviation, and that you have paid (yes, literally too, I know) your
dues.
Being a Lead pilot is not about your stick and rudder skills....they
don't have to be that great, actually (though it is nice when a Lead
can fly smoothly! :) ). Being a Lead is about head work, having good
SA, thinking ahead, and the ability to think and maneuver for 4
airplanes in sometimes very congested airshow airspace, though the
latter you can do with a Wing card.
Perhaps (pure speculation on my part) that this was some of the
rationale that went into the Commercial stipulation.
The only tangible reasons to have a Lead card are to be able to
recommend others for check rides, sign proficiency reports, if you have
check pilot aspirations, ego, and a few other incidental things.
Besides, once your a "Lead" that's all you'll be asked to
do....personally, I'd rather be in the slot!
Cheers,
Barry
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> Yak-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the Yak-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Yak-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Yak-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Yak-List Usage Guidelines
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[This is an automated posting.]
Message 3
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| Subject: | Reprinted with permission.....(and modified for clarity) |
--> Yak-List message posted by: MFilucci@aol.com
In a message dated 3/1/05 9:38:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
johnhilterman1@cox.net writes:
Get your facts straight.....I didn't say or write any of that.
Sorry, John. I didn't realize your name was attached to this text and I'm
not sure how it happened. Of course you didn't write or say it -- I think
everyone realizes it is not your opinion. Just to set the record straight, John
Hilterman did not write the text below, I believe it was posted by Frank:
Who would you rather have on your wing? A guy who's racked up his time
by countless boring hours in straight and level (your typical commercial
pilot) or someone who's gone thru an aerobatics training regimen with
hundreds of hours in actual aerobatic flight?
I would think that flying in close proximity to other aircraft you would
want to fly next to someone that can really handle his airplane. In my
opinion, a commercial isn't really necessary.....it's more of an elitist
thing. Demonstrated proficiency should be the real clincher.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lead qualifications |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
For me Lead has been about learning and teaching. Like other formation pilots,
I love flying every position, and challenge myself to do it as well as I can.
Flying with a group that is really "on" is great satisfaction. However, as
an IP I more often than not find myself in someone else's back seat, hopefully
helping them learn, sweat, enjoy and not kill anyone.
For the seven years that I've been doing this I've watched as Filucci, Sly, Goolsby,
Andrews and a bunch of others show up at event after event to teach ground
schools, instruct in back seats and appoint or disappoint new Wing and Lead
candidates (Mike and Sly once awarded me a prize for the longest briefs and debriefs
known to man! Pissed me off but I learned! (I passed the favor on to
Barry so now he's "it".)) What I've learned is that this is ALL about learning
and teaching and keeping each other safe: Nube, Wing, Lead or Check. It's just
that the more you know the more you give.
Batman
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
Terry please contact me off list. Thanks, Blitz
Byron M Fox
The RPA Store
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405 Cell Days
415-380-0907 Home Eves
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Lead qualifications |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
A commercial ticket does not make a good flight lead. SA makes a good flight lead.
Same as one 3 day weekend at a RPA clinic does not make a good wingy. It takes
hands, practice, and most of all a functioning brain. After 28 years of military
flying, have seen a lot of clueless leads and some d_ _ _d good ones.
The good ones had SA and hands. The clueless ones had well.....
Seems RPA clinics are trying to do to much in one weekend. Why not go back to the
orginal model that brought us here, The Military. You got to show proficiency
in single ship (unusual attitudes and acro), then step up to 2 ship (formation,
rejoins, unusual attitudes) and then finally move up to 4 ship. All of this
can't be done in a 3 day weekend. We have people out there flying lead upgrade
that have not figured out that smooth hands and thinking about what you are
doing with your airplane having a dramatic effect on what happens to the rest
of the flight.
On a personal note, 4 ship diamond requires HQ AF approval for any unit to perform
that is not normally flying show formation (ie, The Birds). Why, the potential
for midair is markedly increased with the guy in the slot in unsual attitudes
of more than 30-40 deg. bank. All it takes is for 4 to lose tally of 1, look
up and focus on 2 or 3. Hey, ask The Birds. They've done it, midaired, and
got the T-shirt. Granted, in the pointy nose community, all of our birds are
painted the same! Just a thought.
Nuff said,
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Yakjock <Yakjock@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Lead qualifications
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Yakjock" <Yakjock@msn.com>
For me Lead has been about learning and teaching. Like other formation pilots,
I love flying every position, and challenge myself to do it as well as I can.
Flying with a group that is really "on" is great satisfaction. However, as
an IP I more often than not find myself in someone else's back seat, hopefully
helping them learn, sweat, enjoy and not kill anyone.
For the seven years that I've been doing this I've watched as Filucci, Sly, Goolsby,
Andrews and a bunch of others show up at event after event to teach ground
schools, instruct in back seats and appoint or disappoint new Wing and Lead
candidates (Mike and Sly once awarded me a prize for the longest briefs and debriefs
known to man! Pissed me off but I learned! (I passed the favor on to
Barry so now he's "it".)) What I've learned is that this is ALL about learning
and teaching and keeping each other safe: Nube, Wing, Lead or Check. It's just
that the more you know the more you give.
Batman
Message 7
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| Subject: | Leeward Mini Clinic |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Unfortunately I may have to postpone the mini clinic since there are
no hotels to be had in the area, It turns out that I picked the same
weekend as the Gator Nationals Race in Gainseville.
Ernie
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Leeward Mini Clinic |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talew@comcast.net>
Keep us advised,
Terry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Yak-List: Leeward Mini Clinic
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Unfortunately I may have to postpone the mini clinic since there are
> no hotels to be had in the area, It turns out that I picked the same
> weekend as the Gator Nationals Race in Gainseville.
>
> Ernie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
Ernie, and attendees,
How about Zephyrhills (ZPH)? The Best Western is available
at $71.10 a night. You Leeward guys could commute...unless
we wanted to recon the watering holes prior to SNF.
Craig Payne
Message 10
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subject
| Subject: | Re: Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in |
subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com>
What's wrong with your house?? !!
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:16:15 -0500
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: [SPAM] - Yak-List: Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Unfortunately I may have to postpone the mini clinic since there are
> no hotels to be had in the area, It turns out that I picked the same
> weekend as the Gator Nationals Race in Gainseville.
>
> Ernie
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I only have so much room, there were several out of towners interested
in coming down.
Ernie
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 22:52:00 -0500 subject, Jay Land
<jland@popeandland.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com>
>
> What's wrong with your house?? !!
>
> > From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > Reply-To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:16:15 -0500
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: [SPAM] - Yak-List: Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > Unfortunately I may have to postpone the mini clinic since there are
> > no hotels to be had in the area, It turns out that I picked the same
> > weekend as the Gator Nationals Race in Gainseville.
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Hey, pitch a tent in your back yard. You have indoor facilities, right?
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Yak-List: Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I only have so much room, there were several out of towners interested
in coming down.
Ernie
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 22:52:00 -0500 subject, Jay Land
<jland@popeandland.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Jay Land <jland@popeandland.com>
>
> What's wrong with your house?? !!
>
> > From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > Reply-To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 17:16:15 -0500
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: [SPAM] - Yak-List: Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > Unfortunately I may have to postpone the mini clinic since there are
> > no hotels to be had in the area, It turns out that I picked the same
> > weekend as the Gator Nationals Race in Gainseville.
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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