Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - Re: RPA Dress Code (Steve & Sharon Heugh)
2. 04:59 AM - a NEW subject (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 05:06 AM - Re: RPA Dress Code (cjpilot710@aol.com)
4. 05:15 AM - Re: RPA Dress Code (cjpilot710@aol.com)
5. 07:43 AM - Re: a NEW subject (Roger Kemp)
6. 08:02 AM - Re: RPA Dress Code (Roger Kemp)
7. 08:58 AM - Re: a NEW subject (Dave Marsh)
8. 09:32 AM - clinic (Terry)
9. 10:13 AM - Re: clinic (Terry Calloway)
10. 10:22 AM - Re: a NEW subject (Roger Kemp)
11. 10:30 AM - Re: a NEW subject (Richard Basiliere)
12. 10:32 AM - Re: clinic (Roger Kemp)
13. 10:33 AM - Re: a NEW subject (Roger Kemp)
14. 10:38 AM - Re: a NEW subject (Richard Basiliere)
15. 11:04 AM - Re: a NEW subject (Dave Marsh)
16. 11:51 AM - Russian Radio (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
17. 12:22 PM - new video (Mark Jefferies YAK UK)
18. 01:02 PM - Re: Russian Radio (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
19. 04:44 PM - Lead Qualifications (Frank Haertlein)
20. 04:55 PM - Ferry Pilot (Edwin Curry)
21. 04:56 PM - Re: clinic (Ernest Martinez)
22. 05:07 PM - Re: clinic (Terry)
23. 05:25 PM - Re: a NEW subject (A. Dennis Savarese)
24. 05:49 PM - Re: a NEW subject (David Petri)
25. 05:53 PM - Re: a NEW subject (Roger Kemp)
26. 05:55 PM - Re: a NEW subject (Roger Kemp)
27. 06:00 PM - Re: a NEW subject (A. Dennis Savarese)
28. 06:10 PM - Re: a NEW subject (DaBear)
29. 06:32 PM - Re: clinic (Ernest Martinez)
30. 07:21 PM - Re: a NEW subject (A. Dennis Savarese)
31. 08:51 PM - Re: new video (Roger Kemp)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RPA Dress Code |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve & Sharon Heugh" <rastus@mweb.co.za>
Hey Mike
You chopper drivers are an ignorant bunch. When the engine quits in a
chopper you guys are taught to auto-rotate. Most good chopper drivers can
put them down in with no forward speed and a very low rate of descent.
Now the jet's: Should the engine quit, the Mirage III will require 15 000
feet to perform one 270 turn from overhead the field to the landing
threshold. Overhead the field at 15 000'agl and 300kts. 45 offset and a
teardrop onto final approach, reducing to 240kts to lower the gear. The
flare is commenced at 2000' agl with the airspeed reducing to 190kts over
the fence.
To give you some perspective of glide: With the gear down and 240kts, the
Mirage III will require 10 000' to glide 1.05nm!
You need a whole lot of runway to slow down from 190kts. If you mess it up,
you have about three tons of engine just waiting to 'break free' six feet
behind you.
The 'Bang seat'......? - No contest!!!!!!
:-) Steve
Glen , Dude - please correct my omissions!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Fagan" <sashalee@iafrica.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RPA Dress C
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Fagan" <sashalee@iafrica.com>
>
> The canopy rides don't suprise me
>
> Most Jet jocks get it all crossed up at some stage and throw away a large
> chunk of the tax payers money..
>
> The manufacturer knew that ego would exceed competence hence the bang seat
> :)
>
> Your point is totally valid and well presented
>
> BR
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerald Sweidan" <gerald.sweidan@sweidan.co.za>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RPA Dress Code
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gerald Sweidan"
> <gerald.sweidan@sweidan.co.za>
>>
>> Aahhh ..but no I3 I see - or even.... C150.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> cjpilot710@aol.com
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: RPA Dress Code
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>>
>>
>> Once again the old adage "Leading pilots is like trying to herd cats".
>>
>> "I am more professional than you!" syndrome.
>> "I know better because I got more time than you!" syndrome.
>> "I know better than you because I'm ex (Navy, Air Force, Army, Coast
>> Guard,
>> or CAP)" syndrome.
>> "I know better than you because I flew (fighters, helicopters, gunships,
>>
>> Hogs, Super Hogs, B-36, B-52s, O2, O1, L-4, L-5, L-39s, Mig-15s, 29s,
>> DC-3s
>> B707, B777, etc etc etc) syndrome.
>>
>> Pretender? Yea verily I confess so. "But I do love it so."
>>
>> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>>
>> ATP, CFII, SES, Flight Navigator, Airframe mechanic, 23,823.35 hr.
>> B-707,727,757,767, 777, 747, 747-400 -Flown DC-3, B-17, B-24J,
>> AT-6/SNJ, T-33, T-34,
>> T-41, Bell-47, 208A, Hiller 12b, R-22, J-3, 7AC-FC-EC, S-108-1, Pitts
>> S1C,
>> PT-17-19-22-23, UPF-7, LA-4, Yak-52 and CJ-6. FAI-NAA record holder
>> and have
>> made 7 parachute jumps (all round canopies).
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
1.96 FROM_NO_LOWER From address has no lower-case characters
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
This is for the Yak 52 drivers:
With your engine out or prop windmilling, how much altitude will you lose if
you attempt to complete a 360 degree turn given you set up the airplane and
fly a perfect turn? Anyone know? Anyone tried it? What airspeed and bank
angle did you use? If you haven't tried it, you should practice it a couple
of times and then burn the numbers in your brain.
Dennis
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RPA Dress Code |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 3/4/2005 6:37:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rastus@mweb.co.za writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve & Sharon Heugh" <rastus@mweb.co.za>
Hey Mike
You chopper drivers are an ignorant bunch. When the engine quits in a
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They are arrogant at times but differently not ignorant. Trying understand
the advancing - retreating blade phenomenon at Vne on rotor system. }:/
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RPA Dress Code |
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 3/4/2005 8:08:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
cjpilot710@aol.com writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
In a message dated 3/4/2005 6:37:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rastus@mweb.co.za writes:
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve & Sharon Heugh" <rastus@mweb.co.za>
Hey Mike
You chopper drivers are an ignorant bunch. When the engine quits in a
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
They are arrogant at times but differently not ignorant. Trying understand
the advancing - retreating blade phenomenon at Vne on rotor system. }:/
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++====
Too early in the morning for me. Let me rewrite the above.
"They are arrogant at times but differently not ignorant. Try understanding
the advancing - retreating blade phenomenon on a rotor system at Vne."
There! Now I can go get breakfast. BTW when is Leeward?
Pappy
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: a NEW subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I've heard this story. It's eye watering! Try it. You'll think twice about 180
deg. at 700 ft. Them Russkies, they not as stupid as we Cold Warriors thought!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
This is for the Yak 52 drivers:
With your engine out or prop windmilling, how much altitude will you lose if
you attempt to complete a 360 degree turn given you set up the airplane and
fly a perfect turn? Anyone know? Anyone tried it? What airspeed and bank
angle did you use? If you haven't tried it, you should practice it a couple
of times and then burn the numbers in your brain.
Dennis
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: RPA Dress Code |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Frog Toys. Goes to prove you can make a rock fly with enough thrust.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve & Sharon Heugh <rastus@mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RPA Dress Code
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve & Sharon Heugh" <rastus@mweb.co.za>
Hey Mike
You chopper drivers are an ignorant bunch. When the engine quits in a
chopper you guys are taught to auto-rotate. Most good chopper drivers can
put them down in with no forward speed and a very low rate of descent.
Now the jet's: Should the engine quit, the Mirage III will require 15 000
feet to perform one 270 turn from overhead the field to the landing
threshold. Overhead the field at 15 000'agl and 300kts. 45 offset and a
teardrop onto final approach, reducing to 240kts to lower the gear. The
flare is commenced at 2000' agl with the airspeed reducing to 190kts over
the fence.
To give you some perspective of glide: With the gear down and 240kts, the
Mirage III will require 10 000' to glide 1.05nm!
You need a whole lot of runway to slow down from 190kts. If you mess it up,
you have about three tons of engine just waiting to 'break free' six feet
behind you.
The 'Bang seat'......? - No contest!!!!!!
:-) Steve
Glen , Dude - please correct my omissions!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Fagan" <sashalee@iafrica.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: RPA Dress C
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Mike Fagan" <sashalee@iafrica.com>
>
> The canopy rides don't suprise me
>
> Most Jet jocks get it all crossed up at some stage and throw away a large
> chunk of the tax payers money..
>
> The manufacturer knew that ego would exceed competence hence the bang seat
> :)
>
> Your point is totally valid and well presented
>
> BR
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerald Sweidan" <gerald.sweidan@sweidan.co.za>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Yak-List: RPA Dress Code
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gerald Sweidan"
> <gerald.sweidan@sweidan.co.za>
>>
>> Aahhh ..but no I3 I see - or even.... C150.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> cjpilot710@aol.com
>> To: yak-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Yak-List: RPA Dress Code
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>>
>>
>> Once again the old adage "Leading pilots is like trying to herd cats".
>>
>> "I am more professional than you!" syndrome.
>> "I know better because I got more time than you!" syndrome.
>> "I know better than you because I'm ex (Navy, Air Force, Army, Coast
>> Guard,
>> or CAP)" syndrome.
>> "I know better than you because I flew (fighters, helicopters, gunships,
>>
>> Hogs, Super Hogs, B-36, B-52s, O2, O1, L-4, L-5, L-39s, Mig-15s, 29s,
>> DC-3s
>> B707, B777, etc etc etc) syndrome.
>>
>> Pretender? Yea verily I confess so. "But I do love it so."
>>
>> Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
>>
>> ATP, CFII, SES, Flight Navigator, Airframe mechanic, 23,823.35 hr.
>> B-707,727,757,767, 777, 747, 747-400 -Flown DC-3, B-17, B-24J,
>> AT-6/SNJ, T-33, T-34,
>> T-41, Bell-47, 208A, Hiller 12b, R-22, J-3, 7AC-FC-EC, S-108-1, Pitts
>> S1C,
>> PT-17-19-22-23, UPF-7, LA-4, Yak-52 and CJ-6. FAI-NAA record holder
>> and have
>> made 7 parachute jumps (all round canopies).
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Roger,
That comment is a little too cryptic to be helpful. In some cases a turnback
IS the safest engine failure case. What we the operating community need to
know is WHEN it is safe and how to fly it. I'll throw my numbers in the
ring; 600ft AGL, glide at 180kmh, turn at 45 degrees bank angle. That'll get
me back to my 5000 ft, sea level runway with a typical 10 kts tailwind at
the landing. Very important to note that as the runway gets shorter or the
wind reduces, that height to make a turnback changes significantly. Also,
airfields with crossrunways give you the chance to turnback with less than a
180 degree turn ; just plan before takeoff which way to make your turn !
Dennis asked about a 360 degree turn. You'd still use 45 degrees angle of
bank but you may benefit from allowing the speed to come back to Vmd (approx
140) instead of Vbg (approx 180). Why not do this in the 180 turnback?
Because it requires significant pitch down to recover the speed and get back
to best glide speed after the turn, and this negates the benefit of doing
the turn at V min descent.
Note also that Vbg varies with weight and CG. I use 180 as it is TYPICAL of
my loaded takeoff condition.
Dave.
Subject: Re: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I've heard this story. It's eye watering! Try it. You'll think twice about
180 deg. at 700 ft. Them Russkies, they not as stupid as we Cold Warriors
thought!
Doc
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talew@comcast.net>
Ernie,
Can you post an itinerary for the mini clinic ?
Terry Lewis
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
>>> talew@comcast.net 3/4/2005 11:31 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talew@comcast.net>
Ernie,
Can you post an itinerary for the mini clinic ?
Terry Lewis
That should be easy:)
Drink
Fly
Drink
Fly
Drink
Fly
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Shack! That's why you need to climb up to 5000', pull the throttle back to idle,
and see what it takes to turn the YAK-52 180 deg.s at 45 deg.s of bank. Then
try a full 360. You will lose more than you thought. Try it at full fuel load,
at 1/2 and at 20 lt. It is eye watering. Assuming you started all this at T.O.
/climb out of say 140-160 km. If you burp on T.O., that is where you will see
just how much altitude it takes to get home. May decide that striaght ahead
was a better choice than a cartwheel 2.3rds of the way thru the turn.
Point is you need to try it to see what you get when you do it. I personally never
learned a lot by just talking about it and not seeing it in some way or form.
But then again I'm just an ole dumb redneck for Ala.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Roger,
That comment is a little too cryptic to be helpful. In some cases a turnback
IS the safest engine failure case. What we the operating community need to
know is WHEN it is safe and how to fly it. I'll throw my numbers in the
ring; 600ft AGL, glide at 180kmh, turn at 45 degrees bank angle. That'll get
me back to my 5000 ft, sea level runway with a typical 10 kts tailwind at
the landing. Very important to note that as the runway gets shorter or the
wind reduces, that height to make a turnback changes significantly. Also,
airfields with crossrunways give you the chance to turnback with less than a
180 degree turn ; just plan before takeoff which way to make your turn !
Dennis asked about a 360 degree turn. You'd still use 45 degrees angle of
bank but you may benefit from allowing the speed to come back to Vmd (approx
140) instead of Vbg (approx 180). Why not do this in the 180 turnback?
Because it requires significant pitch down to recover the speed and get back
to best glide speed after the turn, and this negates the benefit of doing
the turn at V min descent.
Note also that Vbg varies with weight and CG. I use 180 as it is TYPICAL of
my loaded takeoff condition.
Dave.
Subject: Re: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I've heard this story. It's eye watering! Try it. You'll think twice about
180 deg. at 700 ft. Them Russkies, they not as stupid as we Cold Warriors
thought!
Doc
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Didn't someone do tests that 90 degrees of bank for a 180 would allow
for the least altitude loss? Seems to make sense.
Oh-oh did I just get something started?
>>> viperdoc@mindspring.com 3/4/2005 11:21:45 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Shack! That's why you need to climb up to 5000', pull the throttle back
to idle, and see what it takes to turn the YAK-52 180 deg.s at 45 deg.s
of bank. Then try a full 360. You will lose more than you thought. Try
it at full fuel load, at 1/2 and at 20 lt. It is eye watering. Assuming
you started all this at T.O. /climb out of say 140-160 km. If you burp
on T.O., that is where you will see just how much altitude it takes to
get home. May decide that striaght ahead was a better choice than a
cartwheel 2.3rds of the way thru the turn.
Point is you need to try it to see what you get when you do it. I
personally never learned a lot by just talking about it and not seeing
it in some way or form. But then again I'm just an ole dumb redneck for
Ala.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Roger,
That comment is a little too cryptic to be helpful. In some cases a
turnback
IS the safest engine failure case. What we the operating community need
to
know is WHEN it is safe and how to fly it. I'll throw my numbers in
the
ring; 600ft AGL, glide at 180kmh, turn at 45 degrees bank angle.
That'll get
me back to my 5000 ft, sea level runway with a typical 10 kts tailwind
at
the landing. Very important to note that as the runway gets shorter or
the
wind reduces, that height to make a turnback changes significantly.
Also,
airfields with crossrunways give you the chance to turnback with less
than a
180 degree turn ; just plan before takeoff which way to make your turn
!
Dennis asked about a 360 degree turn. You'd still use 45 degrees angle
of
bank but you may benefit from allowing the speed to come back to Vmd
(approx
140) instead of Vbg (approx 180). Why not do this in the 180 turnback?
Because it requires significant pitch down to recover the speed and get
back
to best glide speed after the turn, and this negates the benefit of
doing
the turn at V min descent.
Note also that Vbg varies with weight and CG. I use 180 as it is
TYPICAL of
my loaded takeoff condition.
Dave.
Subject: Re: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I've heard this story. It's eye watering! Try it. You'll think twice
about
180 deg. at 700 ft. Them Russkies, they not as stupid as we Cold
Warriors
thought!
Doc
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Where's the other F_ _ _ _!
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Calloway <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: clinic
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
>>> talew@comcast.net 3/4/2005 11:31 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talew@comcast.net>
Ernie,
Can you post an itinerary for the mini clinic ?
Terry Lewis
That should be easy:)
Drink
Fly
Drink
Fly
Drink
Fly
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Why not Split S ?
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Basiliere <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Didn't someone do tests that 90 degrees of bank for a 180 would allow
for the least altitude loss? Seems to make sense.
Oh-oh did I just get something started?
>>> viperdoc@mindspring.com 3/4/2005 11:21:45 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Shack! That's why you need to climb up to 5000', pull the throttle back
to idle, and see what it takes to turn the YAK-52 180 deg.s at 45 deg.s
of bank. Then try a full 360. You will lose more than you thought. Try
it at full fuel load, at 1/2 and at 20 lt. It is eye watering. Assuming
you started all this at T.O. /climb out of say 140-160 km. If you burp
on T.O., that is where you will see just how much altitude it takes to
get home. May decide that striaght ahead was a better choice than a
cartwheel 2.3rds of the way thru the turn.
Point is you need to try it to see what you get when you do it. I
personally never learned a lot by just talking about it and not seeing
it in some way or form. But then again I'm just an ole dumb redneck for
Ala.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Roger,
That comment is a little too cryptic to be helpful. In some cases a
turnback
IS the safest engine failure case. What we the operating community need
to
know is WHEN it is safe and how to fly it. I'll throw my numbers in
the
ring; 600ft AGL, glide at 180kmh, turn at 45 degrees bank angle.
That'll get
me back to my 5000 ft, sea level runway with a typical 10 kts tailwind
at
the landing. Very important to note that as the runway gets shorter or
the
wind reduces, that height to make a turnback changes significantly.
Also,
airfields with crossrunways give you the chance to turnback with less
than a
180 degree turn ; just plan before takeoff which way to make your turn
!
Dennis asked about a 360 degree turn. You'd still use 45 degrees angle
of
bank but you may benefit from allowing the speed to come back to Vmd
(approx
140) instead of Vbg (approx 180). Why not do this in the 180 turnback?
Because it requires significant pitch down to recover the speed and get
back
to best glide speed after the turn, and this negates the benefit of
doing
the turn at V min descent.
Note also that Vbg varies with weight and CG. I use 180 as it is
TYPICAL of
my loaded takeoff condition.
Dave.
Subject: Re: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I've heard this story. It's eye watering! Try it. You'll think twice
about
180 deg. at 700 ft. Them Russkies, they not as stupid as we Cold
Warriors
thought!
Doc
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
great loss of altitude and increase in airspeed :0)
>>> viperdoc@mindspring.com 3/4/2005 11:32:57 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Why not Split S ?
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Basiliere <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere"
<BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Didn't someone do tests that 90 degrees of bank for a 180 would allow
for the least altitude loss? Seems to make sense.
Oh-oh did I just get something started?
>>> viperdoc@mindspring.com 3/4/2005 11:21:45 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Shack! That's why you need to climb up to 5000', pull the throttle
back
to idle, and see what it takes to turn the YAK-52 180 deg.s at 45
deg.s
of bank. Then try a full 360. You will lose more than you thought. Try
it at full fuel load, at 1/2 and at 20 lt. It is eye watering.
Assuming
you started all this at T.O. /climb out of say 140-160 km. If you burp
on T.O., that is where you will see just how much altitude it takes to
get home. May decide that striaght ahead was a better choice than a
cartwheel 2.3rds of the way thru the turn.
Point is you need to try it to see what you get when you do it. I
personally never learned a lot by just talking about it and not seeing
it in some way or form. But then again I'm just an ole dumb redneck
for
Ala.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Roger,
That comment is a little too cryptic to be helpful. In some cases a
turnback
IS the safest engine failure case. What we the operating community
need
to
know is WHEN it is safe and how to fly it. I'll throw my numbers in
the
ring; 600ft AGL, glide at 180kmh, turn at 45 degrees bank angle.
That'll get
me back to my 5000 ft, sea level runway with a typical 10 kts tailwind
at
the landing. Very important to note that as the runway gets shorter or
the
wind reduces, that height to make a turnback changes significantly.
Also,
airfields with crossrunways give you the chance to turnback with less
than a
180 degree turn ; just plan before takeoff which way to make your turn
!
Dennis asked about a 360 degree turn. You'd still use 45 degrees angle
of
bank but you may benefit from allowing the speed to come back to Vmd
(approx
140) instead of Vbg (approx 180). Why not do this in the 180 turnback?
Because it requires significant pitch down to recover the speed and
get
back
to best glide speed after the turn, and this negates the benefit of
doing
the turn at V min descent.
Note also that Vbg varies with weight and CG. I use 180 as it is
TYPICAL of
my loaded takeoff condition.
Dave.
Subject: Re: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I've heard this story. It's eye watering! Try it. You'll think twice
about
180 deg. at 700 ft. Them Russkies, they not as stupid as we Cold
Warriors
thought!
Doc
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Roger,
Ah yes. See your point. Yes, you need to try this in YOUR plane at YOUR
airfield. When you're comfortable, try it at another airfield and note how
less comfortable that is! However, newbies will still benefit from advice on
what numbers to aim for. There's a difference between getting experience and
being your own test pilot....
So; anyone else brave enough to suggest an answer to Dennis's question? It's
better to talk about this than leave everybody to do their own thing.
Dave.
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Shack! That's why you need to climb up to 5000', pull the throttle back to
idle, and see what it takes to turn the YAK-52 180 deg.s at 45 deg.s of
bank. Then try a full 360. You will lose more than you thought. Try it at
full fuel load, at 1/2 and at 20 lt.
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
I am not sure of the model number of the Russian radios found in our YAKS
and Sukes, but the latest version found in the Sukes and Yak-50's is a
single box unit using a PLL design.
Does ANYBODY know the location the squelch level set potentiometer in this
unit?
Does ANYBODY have a full set of Russian (or otherwise) schematics, alignment
procedures, etc., etc., on this radio or know where to get them?
Thanks for any and all info.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Mark Jefferies YAK UK <mark.j@yakuk.com>
Ladies and Gents, I have posted 2 new videos on my web site as follows.
YAK 52 snap roll on take-off 660 kbs
http://www.yakuk.com/video/flickme.wmv
YAK 52 orgasmic screaming (female) passenger. 1.5 megs
http://www.yakuk.com/video/scream.wmv
=====
Best regards, Mark
www.yakuk.com
+44 (0)1767 651156 office +44 (0)7785 538 317 mobile
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
More info: I reverse engineered the audio circuitry and found the squelch
settings, but could still use ANY kind of schematic. It appears that the
main connector on the rear of the unit is a standard DB-15, but I'm not sure
yet. The antenna connector LOOKS to be standard BNC, but it is not... the
bayonet depth from the front of the connector is not standard.
Since it is pretty well known that the Russian radios have their squelch
setting set extremely high, I will write up the location of how to adjust
the squelch if anyone desires it.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
p.s. Dave, no schematics on the cover or inside. However, the unit is VERY
well made and you can deduce a lot of what each board does.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Subject: Yak-List: Russian Radio
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
<BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
I am not sure of the model number of the Russian radios found in our YAKS
and Sukes, but the latest version found in the Sukes and Yak-50's is a
single box unit using a PLL design.
Does ANYBODY know the location the squelch level set potentiometer in this
unit?
Does ANYBODY have a full set of Russian (or otherwise) schematics, alignment
procedures, etc., etc., on this radio or know where to get them?
Thanks for any and all info.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Lead Qualifications |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Haertlein" <yak52driver@earthlink.net>
Geesus H Krist, Mfilucci.......
A reasoned response from the list? I'm flabbergasted :) Thanks! That was
a very good explanation as to the requirements for qualification as a
lead.
"I see" said the blind man.
Frank
Mark said....................
Actually, flying Lead is more about someone who can handle their brain.
This
whole focus and obsession on the Commercial certificate completely
misses
the point. Here are a couple of important considerations extracted from
the
FAST Foundations and Principles document and from the Lead Pilot
Practical Test
Guide:
"For the national formation program to succeed and continue, it is
critical
that there be a system to both train new formation pilots and to provide
for
maintaining the proficiency of all formation pilots. The flight leaders
must
do this. While not required, it is desirable that a flight leader have a
background in flight training, such as CFI, military flight lead, air
carrier
flight instructor, or a civil or military check airman."
"Leadership ability is the most important quality that must be evaluated
in
each candidate for the FAST Flight Lead test. It is to this standard
that all
maneuvers and briefings will be evaluated."
"Decisions made by a Lead Pilot can literally involve life or death.
Decisions that affect the safety of a flight of multiple aircraft must
be made
rapidly, and be based on a sound foundation of aeronautical experience
and
knowledge."
"The bottom line is that the selection of flight leader candidates is
the
cornerstone of the FAST program. It is not an honorary position and the
candidates should represent the most knowledgeable, best qualified, and
most
importantly, the best leaders."
These are just a few of the guidelines that are spelled out in our
governing
documents -- there is much, much more (and it's all available to you on
the
RPA website) but I think you get the point. I don't know why the
original
founders of FAST stipulated that a Commercial certificate be required
but I do
know that what is expected of you as a Lead Pilot goes well beyond the
simple
requirements of a Commercial certificate.
I also know that we have a terrific, talented, and dedicated group of
volunteer instructors who are ready to work with any of our members to
help achieve
whatever goals/quals you wish to pursue.
Mike
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Edwin Curry <EACurry@ev1.net>
I have a friend of a friend who is looking for a pilot to ferry a Yak 55
from Lubbuck Texas to Wilmington Delaware. Do any of you know somebody
that would be interested? Please contact me off list.
Thanks
EACurry
Yak 52
N108GC
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
There really isnt any. Its just an informal get together to do some
formation work for a few of the FNG's here at the field and for anyone
else that wanted to attend.
Ernie
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:31:53 -0500, Terry <talew@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talew@comcast.net>
>
> Ernie,
> Can you post an itinerary for the mini clinic ?
> Terry Lewis
>
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talew@comcast.net>
Will there be training and check rides given for the FNG's?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: clinic
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> There really isnt any. Its just an informal get together to do some
> formation work for a few of the FNG's here at the field and for anyone
> else that wanted to attend.
>
> Ernie
>
>
> On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:31:53 -0500, Terry <talew@comcast.net> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talew@comcast.net>
>>
>> Ernie,
>> Can you post an itinerary for the mini clinic ?
>> Terry Lewis
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: a NEW subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
Simple enough. Nail the numbers and I'm pretty darn sure even with a cool
head (read-no adrenalin rush because the engine just quit) it will take
about 700 feet of altitude to complete the 360. The whole point of the
exercise is safety. If you already know the answers because you've actually
tried it, that's terrific. You are to be commended. But if you don't know
the answer, you should. Next you should go out and practice it at altitude.
It's a great, eye opening experience. Next try to do it twice or three
times in a row with the same results. Do it to the left and then to the
right. Memorize the numbers.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Marsh" <swampy@videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
>
> Roger,
>
> Ah yes. See your point. Yes, you need to try this in YOUR plane at YOUR
> airfield. When you're comfortable, try it at another airfield and note how
> less comfortable that is! However, newbies will still benefit from advice
on
> what numbers to aim for. There's a difference between getting experience
and
> being your own test pilot....
>
> So; anyone else brave enough to suggest an answer to Dennis's question?
It's
> better to talk about this than leave everybody to do their own thing.
>
> Dave.
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Shack! That's why you need to climb up to 5000', pull the throttle back to
> idle, and see what it takes to turn the YAK-52 180 deg.s at 45 deg.s of
> bank. Then try a full 360. You will lose more than you thought. Try it at
> full fuel load, at 1/2 and at 20 lt.
>
>
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "David Petri" <david.petri@earthlink.net>
Dennis,
I've done it a few times... just to remind myself. With takeoff power and
Vy, into the wind, pull back the power, give myself a second or two for a
"WTF? moment" and I get 500 ft loss at the 180 and 1200 ft at the 360 point.
Since I'm trimmed for Vy that's what I fly. I figure that I'll be looking
for the landing spot and won't mess much with the trim... worse case
scenario. Bank angle is around 45 degrees AOB. Oh and the prop is yanked
full back.
Cheers,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Subject: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
This is for the Yak 52 drivers:
With your engine out or prop windmilling, how much altitude will you lose if
you attempt to complete a 360 degree turn given you set up the airplane and
fly a perfect turn? Anyone know? Anyone tried it? What airspeed and bank
angle did you use? If you haven't tried it, you should practice it a couple
of times and then burn the numbers in your brain.
Dennis
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Your numbers were pretty much on. The answer is: you end up over the numbers with
about 8 -10 feet to spare. Not a lot of wiggle room, but servivable. At 150
km/h (93 kt/h) and 45 deg. bank (best angle of bank for gliding turns), it takes
700 ft +/- 10 ft to hack a turn of 180 degrees. 143km/h (88Kt/h) will get
the greatest distance without wind. But turning, the 150km/hr gives the least
altitude loss. The glide ratio of the YAK-52 clean is 7:1. Dirty it is 5:1. I
prefer using 160 km/h for my glide speed though. Speed is life. Smash can always
be converted to altitude and altitude can always be converted to speed. But
if all you have is air above you and you are out of airspeed, you are going
to have a bad day.
The Russian flight manual says if engine failure before first turn at takeoff:
establish best glide speed ( 150 KPH) and trim to that.
retract gear
operate fuel cut-off (move reward)
switch off mags, battery, and ignition
open cockpit
land striaght ahead if posible, otherwise, make shallow turns
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Roger,
Ah yes. See your point. Yes, you need to try this in YOUR plane at YOUR
airfield. When you're comfortable, try it at another airfield and note how
less comfortable that is! However, newbies will still benefit from advice on
what numbers to aim for. There's a difference between getting experience and
being your own test pilot....
So; anyone else brave enough to suggest an answer to Dennis's question? It's
better to talk about this than leave everybody to do their own thing.
Dave.
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Shack! That's why you need to climb up to 5000', pull the throttle back to
idle, and see what it takes to turn the YAK-52 180 deg.s at 45 deg.s of
bank. Then try a full 360. You will lose more than you thought. Try it at
full fuel load, at 1/2 and at 20 lt.
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Yeper! but what a ride!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Basiliere <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
great loss of altitude and increase in airspeed :0)
>>> viperdoc@mindspring.com 3/4/2005 11:32:57 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Why not Split S ?
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Basiliere <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere"
<BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
Didn't someone do tests that 90 degrees of bank for a 180 would allow
for the least altitude loss? Seems to make sense.
Oh-oh did I just get something started?
>>> viperdoc@mindspring.com 3/4/2005 11:21:45 AM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Shack! That's why you need to climb up to 5000', pull the throttle
back
to idle, and see what it takes to turn the YAK-52 180 deg.s at 45
deg.s
of bank. Then try a full 360. You will lose more than you thought. Try
it at full fuel load, at 1/2 and at 20 lt. It is eye watering.
Assuming
you started all this at T.O. /climb out of say 140-160 km. If you burp
on T.O., that is where you will see just how much altitude it takes to
get home. May decide that striaght ahead was a better choice than a
cartwheel 2.3rds of the way thru the turn.
Point is you need to try it to see what you get when you do it. I
personally never learned a lot by just talking about it and not seeing
it in some way or form. But then again I'm just an ole dumb redneck
for
Ala.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
Roger,
That comment is a little too cryptic to be helpful. In some cases a
turnback
IS the safest engine failure case. What we the operating community
need
to
know is WHEN it is safe and how to fly it. I'll throw my numbers in
the
ring; 600ft AGL, glide at 180kmh, turn at 45 degrees bank angle.
That'll get
me back to my 5000 ft, sea level runway with a typical 10 kts tailwind
at
the landing. Very important to note that as the runway gets shorter or
the
wind reduces, that height to make a turnback changes significantly.
Also,
airfields with crossrunways give you the chance to turnback with less
than a
180 degree turn ; just plan before takeoff which way to make your turn
!
Dennis asked about a 360 degree turn. You'd still use 45 degrees angle
of
bank but you may benefit from allowing the speed to come back to Vmd
(approx
140) instead of Vbg (approx 180). Why not do this in the 180 turnback?
Because it requires significant pitch down to recover the speed and
get
back
to best glide speed after the turn, and this negates the benefit of
doing
the turn at V min descent.
Note also that Vbg varies with weight and CG. I use 180 as it is
TYPICAL of
my loaded takeoff condition.
Dave.
Subject: Re: Yak-List: a NEW subject
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
I've heard this story. It's eye watering! Try it. You'll think twice
about
180 deg. at 700 ft. Them Russkies, they not as stupid as we Cold
Warriors
thought!
Doc
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: a NEW subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
I'll just bet that you did it to the left! If that's so, try it to the
right and see what you get. Memorize those numbers too.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Petri" <david.petri@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "David Petri" <david.petri@earthlink.net>
>
> Dennis,
> I've done it a few times... just to remind myself. With takeoff power
and
> Vy, into the wind, pull back the power, give myself a second or two for a
> "WTF? moment" and I get 500 ft loss at the 180 and 1200 ft at the 360
point.
> Since I'm trimmed for Vy that's what I fly. I figure that I'll be looking
> for the landing spot and won't mess much with the trim... worse case
> scenario. Bank angle is around 45 degrees AOB. Oh and the prop is yanked
> full back.
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis
Savarese
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: a NEW subject
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
> This is for the Yak 52 drivers:
> With your engine out or prop windmilling, how much altitude will you lose
if
> you attempt to complete a 360 degree turn given you set up the airplane
and
> fly a perfect turn? Anyone know? Anyone tried it? What airspeed and
bank
> angle did you use? If you haven't tried it, you should practice it a
couple
> of times and then burn the numbers in your brain.
>
> Dennis
>
>
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: a NEW subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
700 feet for 360 (Full Circle)?
I must be doing something wrong....So I went out today and tried it.
Now, I have a CJ6A with the 360hp M14P and the 3 Blade MT Prop and was
at 2695lbs. At 3,000 climbing at 170clicks, I pulled the power back to
idle. WOW, to go from nose high lots of left rudder, to GET the nose
down and put in a lot of right rudder. WOW. Anyway, I did it to the
left twice and to the right twice. To the left it took 750ft to do a
180 degree turn at 30 deg bank and holding 180 clicks. To the right it
took 600-650 for the 180 deg turn, 30 deg bank and holding 180 clicks.
All this without dropping the gear.
So, I must be doing something wrong. Mike F., you got some time to take
a look at my skills?
As a side note, for the last 6 months (since engine change), I've been
practicing engine outs over the field from downwind. at 1000ft AGL,
parallel to touchdown point and 250 clicks I can pull power and land
comfortably (gear and flaps down) and consistently within 100ft of the
target point. So I'd feel comfortable with 1000 ft. Which is why I
really like the M14P powered CJ, I can reach that 1000 feet much sooner
than with the 285.
Your Mileage may vary. Do not try this at home, I am NOT an expert.
Flame away.
DaBear
Al DeVere
A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
>
>Simple enough. Nail the numbers and I'm pretty darn sure even with a cool
>head (read-no adrenalin rush because the engine just quit) it will take
>about 700 feet of altitude to complete the 360. The whole point of the
>exercise is safety. If you already know the answers because you've actually
>tried it, that's terrific. You are to be commended. But if you don't know
>the answer, you should. Next you should go out and practice it at altitude.
>It's a great, eye opening experience. Next try to do it twice or three
>times in a row with the same results. Do it to the left and then to the
>right. Memorize the numbers.
>Dennis
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Marsh" <swampy@videotron.ca>
>To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
>
>
>
>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
>>
>>Roger,
>>
>>Ah yes. See your point. Yes, you need to try this in YOUR plane at YOUR
>>airfield. When you're comfortable, try it at another airfield and note how
>>less comfortable that is! However, newbies will still benefit from advice
>>
>>
>on
>
>
>>what numbers to aim for. There's a difference between getting experience
>>
>>
>and
>
>
>>being your own test pilot....
>>
>>So; anyone else brave enough to suggest an answer to Dennis's question?
>>
>>
>It's
>
>
>>better to talk about this than leave everybody to do their own thing.
>>
>>Dave.
>>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>>Shack! That's why you need to climb up to 5000', pull the throttle back to
>>idle, and see what it takes to turn the YAK-52 180 deg.s at 45 deg.s of
>>bank. Then try a full 360. You will lose more than you thought. Try it at
>>full fuel load, at 1/2 and at 20 lt.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Well if pappy and Craig show up there will be someone who can
reccomend and someone who could do the check ride.
Ernie
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 20:07:16 -0500, Terry <talew@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talew@comcast.net>
>
> Will there be training and check rides given for the FNG's?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: clinic
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > There really isnt any. Its just an informal get together to do some
> > formation work for a few of the FNG's here at the field and for anyone
> > else that wanted to attend.
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 12:31:53 -0500, Terry <talew@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" <talew@comcast.net>
> >>
> >> Ernie,
> >> Can you post an itinerary for the mini clinic ?
> >> Terry Lewis
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: a NEW subject |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
As you say, your mileage may vary. -) In all seriousness, it really doesn't
matter what yours, mine or anyone's is. What matters is KNOWING what the
best that you can do is in your airplane. That's the whole point. I'm just
happy to see that you are practicing it.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaBear" <dabear@damned.org>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: a NEW subject
> --> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
>
> 700 feet for 360 (Full Circle)?
>
> I must be doing something wrong....So I went out today and tried it.
> Now, I have a CJ6A with the 360hp M14P and the 3 Blade MT Prop and was
> at 2695lbs. At 3,000 climbing at 170clicks, I pulled the power back to
> idle. WOW, to go from nose high lots of left rudder, to GET the nose
> down and put in a lot of right rudder. WOW. Anyway, I did it to the
> left twice and to the right twice. To the left it took 750ft to do a
> 180 degree turn at 30 deg bank and holding 180 clicks. To the right it
> took 600-650 for the 180 deg turn, 30 deg bank and holding 180 clicks.
> All this without dropping the gear.
>
> So, I must be doing something wrong. Mike F., you got some time to take
> a look at my skills?
>
> As a side note, for the last 6 months (since engine change), I've been
> practicing engine outs over the field from downwind. at 1000ft AGL,
> parallel to touchdown point and 250 clicks I can pull power and land
> comfortably (gear and flaps down) and consistently within 100ft of the
> target point. So I'd feel comfortable with 1000 ft. Which is why I
> really like the M14P powered CJ, I can reach that 1000 feet much sooner
> than with the 285.
>
> Your Mileage may vary. Do not try this at home, I am NOT an expert.
> Flame away.
>
> DaBear
> Al DeVere
>
>
> A. Dennis Savarese wrote:
>
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
> >
> >Simple enough. Nail the numbers and I'm pretty darn sure even with a
cool
> >head (read-no adrenalin rush because the engine just quit) it will take
> >about 700 feet of altitude to complete the 360. The whole point of the
> >exercise is safety. If you already know the answers because you've
actually
> >tried it, that's terrific. You are to be commended. But if you don't
know
> >the answer, you should. Next you should go out and practice it at
altitude.
> >It's a great, eye opening experience. Next try to do it twice or three
> >times in a row with the same results. Do it to the left and then to the
> >right. Memorize the numbers.
> >Dennis
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Dave Marsh" <swampy@videotron.ca>
> >To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RE: Yak-List: a NEW subject
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Marsh <swampy@videotron.ca>
> >>
> >>Roger,
> >>
> >>Ah yes. See your point. Yes, you need to try this in YOUR plane at YOUR
> >>airfield. When you're comfortable, try it at another airfield and note
how
> >>less comfortable that is! However, newbies will still benefit from
advice
> >>
> >>
> >on
> >
> >
> >>what numbers to aim for. There's a difference between getting experience
> >>
> >>
> >and
> >
> >
> >>being your own test pilot....
> >>
> >>So; anyone else brave enough to suggest an answer to Dennis's question?
> >>
> >>
> >It's
> >
> >
> >>better to talk about this than leave everybody to do their own thing.
> >>
> >>Dave.
> >>
> >>--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >>
> >>Shack! That's why you need to climb up to 5000', pull the throttle back
to
> >>idle, and see what it takes to turn the YAK-52 180 deg.s at 45 deg.s of
> >>bank. Then try a full 360. You will lose more than you thought. Try it
at
> >>full fuel load, at 1/2 and at 20 lt.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Believe I have seen the whole enchilada (sp). Guinaddy (sp) is good with that snap
roll on T.O. Must be why he was a Russian Acro champ? Just remember that the
PK of Terra Firma is still 1 if you decide to try that at the home drome to
impress the ladies! Have not seen an intrepid aviator crawl out of the smoking
hole to date. The gash going orgasmic in the trunk is pretty good too. Must
have been the crotch straps and well.... It is an interesting way to end the
Skytrace YAK-52 video though.
Hey, what's the last thing a redneck says before he/she jumps in the Box? ....
Watch this!!!
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Jefferies YAK UK <mark.j@yakuk.com>
Subject: Yak-List: new video
--> Yak-List message posted by: Mark Jefferies YAK UK <mark.j@yakuk.com>
Ladies and Gents, I have posted 2 new videos on my web site as follows.
YAK 52 snap roll on take-off 660 kbs
http://www.yakuk.com/video/flickme.wmv
YAK 52 orgasmic screaming (female) passenger. 1.5 megs
http://www.yakuk.com/video/scream.wmv
=====
Best regards, Mark
www.yakuk.com
+44 (0)1767 651156 office +44 (0)7785 538 317 mobile
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|