---------------------------------------------------------- Yak-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/05/05: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:53 AM - Turns (Was "a NEW subject") (Tom Johnson) 2. 06:16 AM - Engine Out (was "a NEW topic") (Tom Johnson) 3. 06:24 AM - Clinic (Bill Geipel) 4. 07:06 AM - Re: Turns (Was "a NEW subject") (Roger Kemp) 5. 08:05 AM - Batteries (Walt Murphy) 6. 08:51 AM - Re: Batteries (Doug Sapp) 7. 10:43 AM - Engine Out (Doug Sapp) 8. 12:38 PM - Re: a NEW subject (Bryan Coppersmith) 9. 02:48 PM - Re: Batteries (Roger Kemp) 10. 02:49 PM - Re: Batteries (Ernest Martinez) 11. 02:54 PM - Re: Clinic (Ernest Martinez) 12. 03:53 PM - bomb test. (cjpilot710@aol.com) 13. 04:29 PM - Re: Batteries (A. Dennis Savarese) 14. 05:23 PM - Re: bomb test. (Ernest Martinez) 15. 05:31 PM - Re: [SPAM] - Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject (Ernest Martinez) 16. 08:10 PM - Re: bomb test. (Roger Kemp) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:55 AM PST US From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: Yak-List: Turns (Was "a NEW subject") --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" Al: Try with a steeper bank angle and let us know what you find. Up to a point the "experts" recommend a much steeper bank angle. The rub is that steep bank angles sometimes cause problems when pressure of the ground and fear and adrenaline are flying. But since you've got the luxury of practicing. Try at 45 and 60 and maybe even 70 degrees of bank. I'd be curious to see if you could dramatically improve your numbers. Seeing as you are a retired Yak 52 pilot, I'm sure you know this will probably put you up around 2gs. . . I don't think this is a problem for the Nanchang but you might double check that the beverage cart is secured. . Tj ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:37 AM PST US From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: Yak-List: Engine Out (was "a NEW topic") --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" Something to think about during this engine out turn to emergency landing. Ever notice the Space Shuttle sprouts its wheels at the very last second almost instantly? If you really had your cranium working in your engine-out-turn. I suppose you could put the gear handle in neutral. At the very last second, it you are lucky enough to be lined up perfectly on a road.. . BANG goes the wheels. Often insurance will pay to get you back to an airport if you land undamaged. And exactly how'd this engine quit. Chances of a double magneto or coil failure are WAY slim. Suppose it did happen and you pressed the starter button. . . would the shower of sparks get you home? Maybe, at best. The spark timing is all wrong on the starter, the extra air. . suppose it might be worth a try tho. It happened to a Mustang years ago and it worked. . .they worried about the starter drive all the way back to the airport.. . Fuel pump failure? How long can a person run on the "wobble pump". Carb failure? How long could we run on the primer? Ever been flying over terrain where a forced landing is NOT an option? I have, living in the mountainous desert. Occasionally unavoidable. Got any emergency supplies? . .. . me neither. I've been working on a pack of emergency supplies that would fit in with the parachute., but haven't gotten very far. Tj ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:14 AM PST US From: Bill Geipel Subject: Yak-List: Clinic --> Yak-List message posted by: Bill Geipel Ernie, Is it a clinic or a fly-in? Does this mean I don't get my normal room? Most importantly, Do I need my flight suit, and commercial license? When is it? The stream has been so long I forgot. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:11 AM PST US From: Roger Kemp Subject: Re: Yak-List: Turns (Was "a NEW subject") --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp Since it is Sat. and CAVU in cantral Al, Will give it a try! If Dennis gets his new delivery out of the container and standing on its little YAK feet. And if there is still day light! Doc -----Original Message----- From: Tom Johnson Subject: Yak-List: Turns (Was "a NEW subject") --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" Al: Try with a steeper bank angle and let us know what you find. Up to a point the "experts" recommend a much steeper bank angle. The rub is that steep bank angles sometimes cause problems when pressure of the ground and fear and adrenaline are flying. But since you've got the luxury of practicing. Try at 45 and 60 and maybe even 70 degrees of bank. I'd be curious to see if you could dramatically improve your numbers. Seeing as you are a retired Yak 52 pilot, I'm sure you know this will probably put you up around 2gs. . . I don't think this is a problem for the Nanchang but you might double check that the beverage cart is secured. . Tj ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:48 AM PST US From: Walt Murphy Subject: Yak-List: Batteries --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Murphy Has anyone used a pair of Odessey 12V batteries ( in series ) aboard a YAK or a CJ ? I see most of the Vans RV guys using this sealed battery . Advantages are sealed construction , work well in high vibration areas , can be mounted in any orientation , more power ( CCA's ) ( Amp hours ) , 2 + year storage life , won't freeze ( good to - 40 degrees F ) , made in the US , 2 year replacement warrantee. The only downside I see on these is that a pair will weigh about 4 pounds more than the currently installed Concord RG series battery.( Hawker Oddessey PC 680 ) http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm Thanks, Walt CJ6-A N68WH ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:02 AM PST US From: "Doug Sapp" Subject: RE: Yak-List: Batteries --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" Walt, I have used the Hawker dry cell batteries for several years now, there great. If you get real creative you can lay them on their sides and place them under the baggage area, works well and gives a ton more room. Always Yakin, Doug Sapp -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Walt Murphy Subject: Yak-List: Batteries --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Murphy Has anyone used a pair of Odessey 12V batteries ( in series ) aboard a YAK or a CJ ? I see most of the Vans RV guys using this sealed battery . Advantages are sealed construction , work well in high vibration areas , can be mounted in any orientation , more power ( CCA's ) ( Amp hours ) , 2 + year storage life , won't freeze ( good to - 40 degrees F ) , made in the US , 2 year replacement warrantee. The only downside I see on these is that a pair will weigh about 4 pounds more than the currently installed Concord RG series battery.( Hawker Oddessey PC 680 ) http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm Thanks, Walt CJ6-A N68WH ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:02 AM PST US From: "Doug Sapp" Subject: Yak-List: Engine Out --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" Gents, This line of talk brings up another question: Your are cruising along at say 10,000 feet and your mighty 285 hp steed simply quits, you cannot keep the engine running with the 20 plus year old wobble pump. You have already tried everything on the emergency check list to get it lit off again and nothing has worked, you have just consigned yourself to the fact that a dead stick landing is now a fact of life. On the bright side there are lots of places to land, so that's not a major problem at this point in time because you have lots of altitude and landing options. What should be the next thing you do as quickly as possible? and why. Always Yakin, Doug Sapp -----Original Message----- From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tom Johnson Subject: Yak-List: Engine Out (was "a NEW topic") --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" Something to think about during this engine out turn to emergency landing. Ever notice the Space Shuttle sprouts its wheels at the very last second almost instantly? If you really had your cranium working in your engine-out-turn. I suppose you could put the gear handle in neutral. At the very last second, it you are lucky enough to be lined up perfectly on a road.. . BANG goes the wheels. Often insurance will pay to get you back to an airport if you land undamaged. And exactly how'd this engine quit. Chances of a double magneto or coil failure are WAY slim. Suppose it did happen and you pressed the starter button. . . would the shower of sparks get you home? Maybe, at best. The spark timing is all wrong on the starter, the extra air. . suppose it might be worth a try tho. It happened to a Mustang years ago and it worked. . .they worried about the starter drive all the way back to the airport.. . Fuel pump failure? How long can a person run on the "wobble pump". Carb failure? How long could we run on the primer? Ever been flying over terrain where a forced landing is NOT an option? I have, living in the mountainous desert. Occasionally unavoidable. Got any emergency supplies? . .. . me neither. I've been working on a pack of emergency supplies that would fit in with the parachute., but haven't gotten very far. Tj ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:42 PM PST US From: Bryan Coppersmith Subject: Re: Yak-List: a NEW subject --> Yak-List message posted by: Bryan Coppersmith Hi I extracted this from the Russian manuals when I wrote our manual for use by Yak 52 drivers here in New Zealand. In the clean configuration, the gliding range is 7:1 at the best lift/drag speed of 160 km/hr. (Conservatively, this results in a range of 1 nm per 1000ft AGL. To obtain the maximum range, use 150 km/hr with a tailwind, 160 km/hr in still air, and 170 km/hr in a headwind. For each 10 knots of headwind, range decreases by aproximately 10%. The best performance when turning is achieved at 170 km/hr at 45 angle of bank. A 180 turn in this configuration will take 12-15 seconds and results in an altitude loss of approximately 370 ft. Cheers - Bryan Coppersmith ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:23 PM PST US From: Roger Kemp Subject: Re: Yak-List: Batteries --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp Walt, Talk to Dennis Savarese about what batteries he installs in place of the Concord. I have only had my YAK for 1 year so it is not time for me to replace the batteries yet. Dennis had done this many times during his maintance classes and annuals. Doc -----Original Message----- From: Walt Murphy Subject: Yak-List: Batteries --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Murphy Has anyone used a pair of Odessey 12V batteries ( in series ) aboard a YAK or a CJ ? I see most of the Vans RV guys using this sealed battery . Advantages are sealed construction , work well in high vibration areas , can be mounted in any orientation , more power ( CCA's ) ( Amp hours ) , 2 + year storage life , won't freeze ( good to - 40 degrees F ) , made in the US , 2 year replacement warrantee. The only downside I see on these is that a pair will weigh about 4 pounds more than the currently installed Concord RG series battery.( Hawker Oddessey PC 680 ) http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm Thanks, Walt CJ6-A N68WH ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:07 PM PST US From: Ernest Martinez Subject: Re: Yak-List: Batteries --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez I've got a pair of the 680's in my CJ and they're great, I use a pair of the 925;s in my L-29 and it starts it just great. I'm not sure what batteries you're using, but the 2 oddesey's in both planes ended up weighing less than the batteries I removed. I saved almost 20 lbs in the L-29 forcing me to add weight to the nose to compensate. Ernie On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:50:05 -0800, Doug Sapp wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" > > Walt, > I have used the Hawker dry cell batteries for several years now, there > great. If you get real creative you can lay them on their sides and place > them under the baggage area, works well and gives a ton more room. > > Always Yakin, > Doug Sapp > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Walt Murphy > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Batteries > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Murphy > > Has anyone used a pair of Odessey 12V batteries ( in series ) aboard a > YAK or a CJ ? > I see most of the Vans RV guys using this sealed battery . Advantages > are sealed construction , work well in high vibration areas , can be > mounted in any orientation , more power ( CCA's ) ( Amp hours ) , 2 + > year storage life , won't freeze ( good to - 40 degrees F ) , made in > the US , 2 year replacement warrantee. > The only downside I see on these is that a pair will weigh about 4 > pounds more than the currently installed Concord RG series battery.( > Hawker Oddessey PC 680 ) http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm > > Thanks, > Walt > CJ6-A N68WH > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:22 PM PST US From: Ernest Martinez Subject: Re: Yak-List: Clinic --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez Ok, its a flyin, yes your room awaits, I dont care if you fly naked, just dont let me see you. Mar 17th - 20th . I have an additional room for Craig, and Rich has offered up a room in his hangar. Ernie P.S. I dont know if my plane will be flying, I started the paint stripping and its a slow go since I lost last week due to travel. I've got the cowl. the forward fuselage and the top of the right wing stripped, tomorrow hope to have the top of the left wing done. If I can keep up the pace in the evenings during the week, I may be done by then On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 08:23:53 -0600 (GMT-06:00), Bill Geipel wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: Bill Geipel > > Ernie, > > Is it a clinic or a fly-in? > > Does this mean I don't get my normal room? > > Most importantly, Do I need my flight suit, and commercial license? > > When is it? The stream has been so long I forgot. > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:58 PM PST US From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: bomb test. --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com Troops, Intelligents Report. This date at 1134 local Eastern Yankee Imperialist time. A CJ-6PBE* (N21710) performed ordinance flight test and ordinance drop test. Systems were verified to a flight envelope of IAS of 160 kts and 2 g. Two (2) 3.5 k GP bombs were drop at the FD44 test range. Drop tests (2) were performed at 200 agl, 140 kts. Ordinance flew true trajectories and came with in 5m of each other when drop over designated drop point. Wx CAVU 70F Wind: L/V Test Pilot: James "Pappy" Goolsby Chase Pilot: William Mills LtC *Note: CJ-6 P=M14p engine. B=ordinance capable ( 37mm cannon, 55m rockets, bombs <3.5 k ) E=EFIS system equipment Jim "Pappy" Goolsby :) :) :) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:29:39 PM PST US From: "A. Dennis Savarese" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Batteries --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" I have used these batteries. http://www.elkproducts.com/products/elk-12180.htm Two of these are physically the same size as one Concord 24V sealed aircraft battery. Dennis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Kemp" Subject: Re: Yak-List: Batteries > --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp > > Walt, > Talk to Dennis Savarese about what batteries he installs in place of the Concord. I have only had my YAK for 1 year so it is not time for me to replace the batteries yet. Dennis had done this many times during his maintance classes and annuals. > Doc > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walt Murphy > To: yak-list@matronics.com > Subject: Yak-List: Batteries > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Walt Murphy > > Has anyone used a pair of Odessey 12V batteries ( in series ) aboard a > YAK or a CJ ? > I see most of the Vans RV guys using this sealed battery . Advantages > are sealed construction , work well in high vibration areas , can be > mounted in any orientation , more power ( CCA's ) ( Amp hours ) , 2 + > year storage life , won't freeze ( good to - 40 degrees F ) , made in > the US , 2 year replacement warrantee. > The only downside I see on these is that a pair will weigh about 4 > pounds more than the currently installed Concord RG series battery.( > Hawker Oddessey PC 680 ) http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm > > Thanks, > Walt > CJ6-A N68WH > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:56 PM PST US From: Ernest Martinez Subject: Re: Yak-List: bomb test. --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez You're such a geek :) Ernie On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 18:52:53 EST, cjpilot710@aol.com wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com > > Troops, > > Intelligents Report. > > This date at 1134 local Eastern Yankee Imperialist time. A CJ-6PBE* > (N21710) performed ordinance flight test and ordinance drop test. Systems were > verified to a flight envelope of IAS of 160 kts and 2 g. > > Two (2) 3.5 k GP bombs were drop at the FD44 test range. Drop tests (2) > were performed at 200 agl, 140 kts. Ordinance flew true trajectories and came > with in 5m of each other when drop over designated drop point. > > Wx CAVU 70F Wind: L/V > > Test Pilot: James "Pappy" Goolsby > Chase Pilot: William Mills LtC > > *Note: CJ-6 > P=M14p engine. > B=ordinance capable ( 37mm cannon, 55m rockets, bombs <3.5 k ) > E=EFIS system equipment > > Jim "Pappy" Goolsby :) :) :) > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:33 PM PST US From: Ernest Martinez Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Yak-List: Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez Terry, The options are, you can take up the hospitality of Rich Langer another Leeward resident who has offered up accomodations in his hangar office, which is a large finished room, he has offered up cots. Not exactly the Holiday Inn, but beats the mosquito netting. Ernie On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 20:46:30 -0500, Terry wrote: > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry" > > Ernie, > I don't understand. What are the options ? I must have missed something. > Terry Lewis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ernest Martinez" > To: > Subject: Re: [SPAM] - Yak-List: Leeward Mini Clinic - Email found in subject > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez > > > > Well, I guess its up to those who want to attend and need accomodations. > > > > All those interested.....speak up. > > > > Ernie > > > > > > On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 18:55:42 +0000, rlanger2@comcast.net > > wrote: > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: rlanger2@comcast.net > >> > >> Ernie: I can put 5 or 6 in my 15x55 utility room that is set up for a > >> dormitory style bedroom. It is finished off like a bedroom ( sheetrock > >> ceilings, walls , heat, a/c ,bathroom etc. ). I just have to find cots, > >> sleeping bags, roll-a-ways or blow up matresses( I have two now). Let me > >> know off site. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:13 PM PST US From: Roger Kemp Subject: Re: Yak-List: bomb test. --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp Pappy, Glad you lived and survived the frag pattern unscathed at 200' AGL. Doc -----Original Message----- From: cjpilot710@aol.com Subject: Yak-List: bomb test. --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com Troops, Intelligents Report. This date at 1134 local Eastern Yankee Imperialist time. A CJ-6PBE* (N21710) performed ordinance flight test and ordinance drop test. Systems were verified to a flight envelope of IAS of 160 kts and 2 g. Two (2) 3.5 k GP bombs were drop at the FD44 test range. Drop tests (2) were performed at 200 agl, 140 kts. Ordinance flew true trajectories and came with in 5m of each other when drop over designated drop point. Wx CAVU 70F Wind: L/V Test Pilot: James "Pappy" Goolsby Chase Pilot: William Mills LtC *Note: CJ-6 P=M14p engine. B=ordinance capable ( 37mm cannon, 55m rockets, bombs <3.5 k ) E=EFIS system equipment Jim "Pappy" Goolsby :) :) :)