Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Re: Let's separate the issues at hand. (Mark Jefferies)
2. 05:08 AM - Re: Power loss emergencies (A. Dennis Savarese)
3. 06:02 AM - Re: Let's separate the issues at hand. (Roger Kemp)
4. 06:20 AM - Re:yak-list:285 hp engine shutdown (Jim Bernier)
5. 09:08 AM - Walt's prop governor discussion (Lee Taylor)
6. 10:44 AM - Re: SF Bay Area Yaks (Frank Stelwagon)
7. 10:56 AM - Re: Walt's prop governor discussion (Roger Kemp)
8. 11:16 AM - Re: Walt's prop governor discussion (A. Dennis Savarese)
9. 11:37 AM - M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender (Dee L. Conger)
10. 12:27 PM - Re: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender (DaBear)
11. 12:39 PM - Re: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender (Ernest Martinez)
12. 01:00 PM - Oil (Bob Fitzpatrick)
13. 01:20 PM - Re: Oil (DaBear)
14. 02:45 PM - Re: Oil (Richard Basiliere)
15. 03:04 PM - Re: SF Bay Area Yaks (ByronMFox@aol.com)
16. 03:11 PM - Re: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender (Bitterlich GS11 Mark G)
17. 04:01 PM - FW: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender (Dee L. Conger)
18. 05:34 PM - Formation Aerobatics (Lance Robb)
19. 05:45 PM - Re:M14P tach generator (Frank Stelwagon)
20. 06:06 PM - Florida Flyers (cjpilot710@aol.com)
21. 10:11 PM - help! (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Let's separate the issues at hand. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies" <mark.j@yakuk.com>
The only way I have managed to stop the prop turning is the mags off and
tail slide method. You have to pull out (or push) right on the buffet or the
speed will start it turning again. For the dive it starts turning again at
260 for sure, below that, say 220 up to 260 it will creep around without
actually gaining momentum to get cleanly over the next compression.
Cheers, mj
I have on numerous occasions tried to stop the prop on my YAK-50
equipped
with the standard M-14P engine and 2 bladed VPeriod prop. It is a
rather
hard thing to do. I have pulled the prop all the way back, held the
aircraft right at the edge of a stall, etc., etc. It is amazing how
much
that prop wants to just keep on spinning. It is MUCH easier to stop
the
prop on a T-34 than on my YAK-50.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Power loss emergencies |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
As always Walt, you are right. "Sucking" is a misnomer for sure and as my
mother always said to me when I was a young kid, "If I ever hear you say
that again, I'm going to wash your mouth out with soap!" So I will never
use that word again in connection with a prop governor.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Power loss emergencies
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> Hi Dennis;
>
> Afraid I have to differ with you on this one. The governor cannot suck oil
> from the propellor under any circumstance. The "governor" (more accurately
> the prop control unit) contains two principal components
> 1. A gear type oil boost pump supplied with oil under engine oil pump
> pressure, boosted to 130 to 200 psi.(don't know spec for Russian & Chinese
> units - lets say 150 psi) Pressure controlled by integral relief valve and
> supplied through one outlet port to the pilot valve bore.
> 2. A fly-weight type governor assembly consisting of the following major
> parts: Pilot valve (a spool type mounted in the bore of the gear pump
drive
> shaft), Fly-weight cup assembly driven by the pump drive shaft, Pilot
valve
> bearing to transfer fly weight motion to axial movement of the pilot
valve,
> A "speeder" spring, A rack and pinion control assembly to transmit speeder
> spring loading (RPM) from the cockpit.
>
> In this very basic PCU there is only one control land on the pilot valve
and
> only one passage from the pilot valve bore to the propellor. Boost
pressure
> oil is supplied to the pilot valve bore above the control land at all
times.
> Consider first the "on speed" condition, where the RPM is as set by the
> speeder spring load and there is no demand from the fly-weights for any
> change. In this case the control land is blocking the passage so no blade
> movement takes place. Oil above the land is circulated by the relief valve
> to the pump inlet.
>
> In the "under speed" condition the speeder spring load exceeds the fly
> weight centrifugal load and the pilot valve is forced downward opening the
> propellor passage to oil pressure above the control land thereby moving
the
> blades toward fine pitch.
>
> In the "over speed" condition the flyweight centrifugal load exceeds the
> pre-set speeder spring load and moves the pilot valve upward opening the
> propellor passage to the drain cavity in the drive shaft and oil is forced
> out of the prop by blade counter weight action.
>
> As you can see there is no possibility of the governor sucking oil from
the
> prop.
>
> There is one other governor operating condition to consider and it is the
> one that has been the subject of the recent chatter. That is POSITIVE
coarse
> pitch or Artificial Overspeed. The pilot valve has an upper extension
> through the rack with an adjustable stop inside the rack. Under normal
> constant speed operation this part moves up and down with the pilot valve
> relative to the stationary rack. When the control is moved to full coarse
> pitch and the speeder spring is unloaded the rack contacts the stop
directly
> lifting the pilot valve to fully open the prop passage to drain. The oil
> flow is as described in over speed.
> In this condition the governor is out of the constant speed range and we
> have a high pitch, fixed pitch, propellor. It is no where near feathered
but
> will create less drag than otherwise.
> You may wonder why the high pitch blade angle is not higher for even less
> drag. Well, imagine a situation where a failure has caused a serious leak
of
> propellor oil. The windshield turns black and you sense a drop in RPM. The
> prop has just gone to high pitch by counterweight action, the governor
> senses underspeed and is desperately delivering oil at 150 psi to your
> windshield. Not for long - you don't have that much oil.
> The handle goes to POSITIVE Coarse right now. The bleeding stops. The
coarse
> pitch blade angle has been selected to allow continued flight without over
> boosting and a safe landing.
>
> This is an unlikely occurence for our aircraft but not impossible. It was,
> and still is, a real concern for early Hartzell operators if they fail to
> heed the AWD replacement of pitch change diaphragms.
>
> Cheers;
> Walt
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> > <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
> >
> > Lee,
> > I do not disagree with your response, in concept. But in reality, you
> > will
> > not get enough oil pressure moving through the prop governor with the
prop
> > windmilling. As I said in a previous post on the subject, prove it to
> > yourself on the ground with the engine running at 40% RPM. See if you
can
> > get the prop blades to move to coarse pitch.
> >
> > If the prop governor can not move the oil out of the prop hub piston to
> > enable the counter weights to take over, there will be no movement to
> > coarse
> > pitch. And the only way the prop governor moves the oil in and out is
> > dependant upon the rpm of the engine. Thus the test I suggested. It
> > doesn't matter whether the forward motion of the airplane through the
air
> > is
> > moving the prop (windmilling) or whether the engine is under its own
> > power.
> > If the prop blades won't go to coarse pitch at 40% rpm, then I seriously
> > doubt they will with the prop windmilling even if it could achieve 40%.
> > And
> > that means it will also be producing oil pressure just like it does when
> > the
> > engine is running.
> > Dennis
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Let's separate the issues at hand. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Dudes,
You all are freeking crazy. If the engine stops in flight, I personally will run
the checklist. If I can not get a relight, then I will decide to step over the
side or land off field (or at an airport if available). Screw the engine, It
is my ass and that of my pax that I am concerned about at this point. As I said
before, Aerostar is still making YAK's. Cloning is not a viable alternative
to jumping in the BOX. Either leave the airplane or land the airplane. The
Engine can be replaced! Enough mental masterbation. We Beat this horse to a pump
also. Sniff..Sniff... I think I smell a DEAD HORSE.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Jefferies <mark.j@yakuk.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Let's separate the issues at hand.
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Jefferies" <mark.j@yakuk.com>
The only way I have managed to stop the prop turning is the mags off and
tail slide method. You have to pull out (or push) right on the buffet or the
speed will start it turning again. For the dive it starts turning again at
260 for sure, below that, say 220 up to 260 it will creep around without
actually gaining momentum to get cleanly over the next compression.
Cheers, mj
I have on numerous occasions tried to stop the prop on my YAK-50
equipped
with the standard M-14P engine and 2 bladed VPeriod prop. It is a
rather
hard thing to do. I have pulled the prop all the way back, held the
aircraft right at the edge of a stall, etc., etc. It is amazing how
much
that prop wants to just keep on spinning. It is MUCH easier to stop
the
prop on a T-34 than on my YAK-50.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re:yak-list:285 hp engine shutdown |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jim Bernier" <JBernier@dart.org>
Two things wrong with this logic:
1. My aux. oil pump puts out 2 gal. at 30psi. To dump 17 liters you
would have to be able to glide for over 2 hours. I don't know about your
CJ, but mine sinks like a brick, with out power.
2. The engine is turning. That means that the pistons are still pumping
fuel, air, and oil out of all the cylinders. In short. You can't
accumulate anything in these cylinders. It's like having someone out
their hand propping your plane while you glide around,----- for two
hours.
Jim B
CJ6-A N3110W
>>> pfstelwagon@earthlink.net 3/9/2005 8:36:14 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon"
<pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
Someone made the comment that if you lost the oil pump drive (also fuel
pump) and you had a prelube pump setup you could save the engine. I
have also thought of this idea but there is one drawback. Since the
engine oil pressure pump is no longer turning neither is the scavenge
pump so eventually you will wind up with 17 liters of oil in the engine
and the potential for a great hydraulic lock. I guess that we are had
any way we go.
Frank
CJ6-A N23021
Message 5
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| Subject: | Walt's prop governor discussion |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@comcast.net>
WALT:
EXCELLENT and completely accurate description of the prop/prop
governor/oil pressure operation, and several very good points everyone
should read. I didn't want to get quite that technical, and you did an
excellent job.
Point on moving the prop control to full coarse, dead engine.
The engine WILL NOT be turning at 450 RPM, like on the ground, it will
more likely be 1200. Counterweights are effective at that RPM, and full
coarse is obtainable. Remember that oil PRESSURE is not required, the
oil pressure is BLOCKED and drained to achieve coarse pitch. It is the
COUNTERWEIGHTS that move the prop to coarse. Try it in the air--just
simply establish a decent, normal power-off glide, and pull the prop to
coarse pitch. It'll work, and like I have said, it will feel like
someone released the dragging parking brake.
Second point, much proven by myself in real life. There isn't a
whole lot of difference between a prop at coarse pitch, and a stopped
prop. It isn't worth the extreme effort and loss of altitude to achieve
a stopped prop, and it is a completely foreign landing configuration,
anyway. You have your hands full enough with the emergency without
having to work thru a completely foreign flight configuration.
You don't need a lot of added complexity in an actual emergency.
Cut the workload down to FLY THE BLINKIN' AIRPLANE! ALL THE WAY TO FULL
STOP.
Lee Taylor
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: SF Bay Area Yaks |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
Contact Jim, I think he has the information.
Frank
CJ6-A N23021
----- Original Message -----
From: <ByronMFox@aol.com>
Subject: Yak-List: SF Bay Area Yaks
> --> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
>
>
> Are you guys aware=A0of the "Yak Attack" event being held at the Hiller
> Air
> Museum at the San Carlos airport on April 23. 2005? I'll find out more.
> ...Blitz
>
> Byron M. Fox
> Mill Valley, CA
> Nanchang CJ-6A
> N221YK
> 415-307-2405
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Walt's prop governor discussion |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Shack! That's what I said all along. Fly the damned airplane all the way to the
ground until it STOPS moving! You already have the seat cushion sucked 12 inches
or farther up your ass form that sudden quietness you are experiencing. Do
not add something else to the list of headaches by trying to stop the prop from
spining or can I glide an extra 1000 ft by trying to coarsen the prop. If
that worked, the Russians would have put it in their Pilots Operating instruction
manual of which we are lucky enough to have a copy of an original in our
hanger. It does not say a thing about coarsening the prop in an engine out landing.
Doc
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Taylor <leetay@comcast.net>
Subject: Yak-List: Walt's prop governor discussion
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@comcast.net>
WALT:
EXCELLENT and completely accurate description of the prop/prop
governor/oil pressure operation, and several very good points everyone
should read. I didn't want to get quite that technical, and you did an
excellent job.
Point on moving the prop control to full coarse, dead engine.
The engine WILL NOT be turning at 450 RPM, like on the ground, it will
more likely be 1200. Counterweights are effective at that RPM, and full
coarse is obtainable. Remember that oil PRESSURE is not required, the
oil pressure is BLOCKED and drained to achieve coarse pitch. It is the
COUNTERWEIGHTS that move the prop to coarse. Try it in the air--just
simply establish a decent, normal power-off glide, and pull the prop to
coarse pitch. It'll work, and like I have said, it will feel like
someone released the dragging parking brake.
Second point, much proven by myself in real life. There isn't a
whole lot of difference between a prop at coarse pitch, and a stopped
prop. It isn't worth the extreme effort and loss of altitude to achieve
a stopped prop, and it is a completely foreign landing configuration,
anyway. You have your hands full enough with the emergency without
having to work thru a completely foreign flight configuration.
You don't need a lot of added complexity in an actual emergency.
Cut the workload down to FLY THE BLINKIN' AIRPLANE! ALL THE WAY TO FULL
STOP.
Lee Taylor
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Walt's prop governor discussion |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <DSAVARESE@ELMORE.RR.COM>
Does anyone recall the purpose of trying to bring the blades to full coarse
pitch in the first place with an engine out situation? Does increasing
gliding distance sound about right? OK. So you have the engine out
situation. Next you establish best glide speed. Now move the prop control
all the way back to full coarse position. Since the tach is a tach
generator and requires revolutions to indicate rpm, look at your tach. Yes
the engine is windmilling. Did it get to 40%? 50%? More? When on the
ground with your engine running at lets say 50% rpm, can you get the blades
to move to full coarse pitch?
As Doc says, find a place to land and focus on getting it down as safely as
possible.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Walt's prop governor discussion
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Roger Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Shack! That's what I said all along. Fly the damned airplane all the way
to the ground until it STOPS moving! You already have the seat cushion
sucked 12 inches or farther up your ass form that sudden quietness you are
experiencing. Do not add something else to the list of headaches by trying
to stop the prop from spining or can I glide an extra 1000 ft by trying to
coarsen the prop. If that worked, the Russians would have put it in their
Pilots Operating instruction manual of which we are lucky enough to have a
copy of an original in our hanger. It does not say a thing about coarsening
the prop in an engine out landing.
> Doc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Taylor <leetay@comcast.net>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Yak-List: Walt's prop governor discussion
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Lee Taylor" <leetay@comcast.net>
>
>
> WALT:
>
> EXCELLENT and completely accurate description of the prop/prop
> governor/oil pressure operation, and several very good points everyone
> should read. I didn't want to get quite that technical, and you did an
> excellent job.
> Point on moving the prop control to full coarse, dead engine.
> The engine WILL NOT be turning at 450 RPM, like on the ground, it will
> more likely be 1200. Counterweights are effective at that RPM, and full
> coarse is obtainable. Remember that oil PRESSURE is not required, the
> oil pressure is BLOCKED and drained to achieve coarse pitch. It is the
> COUNTERWEIGHTS that move the prop to coarse. Try it in the air--just
> simply establish a decent, normal power-off glide, and pull the prop to
> coarse pitch. It'll work, and like I have said, it will feel like
> someone released the dragging parking brake.
>
> Second point, much proven by myself in real life. There isn't a
> whole lot of difference between a prop at coarse pitch, and a stopped
> prop. It isn't worth the extreme effort and loss of altitude to achieve
> a stopped prop, and it is a completely foreign landing configuration,
> anyway. You have your hands full enough with the emergency without
> having to work thru a completely foreign flight configuration.
> You don't need a lot of added complexity in an actual emergency.
> Cut the workload down to FLY THE BLINKIN' AIRPLANE! ALL THE WAY TO FULL
> STOP.
>
> Lee Taylor
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dee L. Conger" <dee@ansatainc.com>
Does anyone know the specs on the M14P tach generator? How many pulses
per RPM? What voltage? I'm working with JPI to develop the EDM930 for
the M14. Also, I'm looking for a wiring diagram for the fuel sender /
gauge for the Yak 50
Dee L. Conger
(858) 754-3010 Direct
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender |
--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
That would be great, I've been looking at the EDM900, but they were not
building it for a 9 cyl engine.
However, couldn't they do something similiar to the Horizon Tach where
they went off the mag's rather than the tach generator?
Al DeVere
Dee L. Conger wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dee L. Conger" <dee@ansatainc.com>
>
>Does anyone know the specs on the M14P tach generator? How many pulses
>per RPM? What voltage? I'm working with JPI to develop the EDM930 for
>the M14. Also, I'm looking for a wiring diagram for the fuel sender /
>gauge for the Yak 50
>
>Dee L. Conger
>(858) 754-3010 Direct
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I thought JPI DID make a 9 cylinder model.
Ernie
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:26:54 -0500, DaBear <dabear@damned.org> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
>
> That would be great, I've been looking at the EDM900, but they were not
> building it for a 9 cyl engine.
>
> However, couldn't they do something similiar to the Horizon Tach where
> they went off the mag's rather than the tach generator?
>
> Al DeVere
>
> Dee L. Conger wrote:
>
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dee L. Conger" <dee@ansatainc.com>
> >
> >Does anyone know the specs on the M14P tach generator? How many pulses
> >per RPM? What voltage? I'm working with JPI to develop the EDM930 for
> >the M14. Also, I'm looking for a wiring diagram for the fuel sender /
> >gauge for the Yak 50
> >
> >Dee L. Conger
> >(858) 754-3010 Direct
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Bob Fitzpatrick <rmfitz@direcway.com>
M14 owners;
I'm considering changing from Aeroshell 100w & 120w to Phillips xc
25-60. Rumor has it that this will lead to higher consumption and more
leaks. I'm also concerned that the multi may not have the long-term
coating quality of the straight wts during our down time in the winter.
OTOH, even with 2 tank heaters the oil is painfully slow to warm up and
there is still that "jellied" oil in the cooler and lines to worry
about. A multi should help this.
Any comments/opinions/experience ?
TIA
bob
52BN
Message 13
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--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
Bob,
I used 100w in my Yak-52 for the first 50 hours, then went to 25/60 for
the rest of the 300 hours I flew her. No issues and I flew all winter
long in Chicago. (Oil changes at 50 hours). I used 25/60 from the
beginning in my CJ (285hp) for 300 hours, again no issue other than some
leaks. I've used 25/60 in my CJ (M14P) for 50 hours now, and still like
it. Oil temp and pressure come up much faster when cold. I'd recommend it.
Al DeVere
Bob Fitzpatrick wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Bob Fitzpatrick <rmfitz@direcway.com>
>
>M14 owners;
>I'm considering changing from Aeroshell 100w & 120w to Phillips xc
>25-60. Rumor has it that this will lead to higher consumption and more
>leaks. I'm also concerned that the multi may not have the long-term
>coating quality of the straight wts during our down time in the winter.
>OTOH, even with 2 tank heaters the oil is painfully slow to warm up and
>there is still that "jellied" oil in the cooler and lines to worry
>about. A multi should help this.
> Any comments/opinions/experience ?
> TIA
>bob
>52BN
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Basiliere" <BasiliereR@ci.boulder.co.us>
I've never run anything else than the 25w-60. Yak-52 (300 hours) Yak-55
(150 hours) and SU-29 over 800 on the original engine. All run akro
@100%. Last oil change on SU she used 1 quart per hour @ 100% I like
it here, Colorado gets cold. No complaints at all.
Rick B
>>> rmfitz@direcway.com 3/10/2005 2:03:39 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bob Fitzpatrick <rmfitz@direcway.com>
M14 owners;
I'm considering changing from Aeroshell 100w & 120w to Phillips xc
25-60. Rumor has it that this will lead to higher consumption and more
leaks. I'm also concerned that the multi may not have the long-term
coating quality of the straight wts during our down time in the winter.
OTOH, even with 2 tank heaters the oil is painfully slow to warm up and
there is still that "jellied" oil in the cooler and lines to worry
about. A multi should help this.
Any comments/opinions/experience ?
TIA
bob
52BN
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: SF Bay Area Yaks |
--> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
I'll post more information when I get it, John. For the moment all I know
is that the Yak Attack will be at the San Carlos Airport's Hiller Museum on
April 23rd. ...Blitz
Message 16
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| Subject: | M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Dee, I have no solid facts to go on when I say this (such as an internal
wiring diagram), but my impression is that the M-14 Tach Generator is a
three phase AC synchro generator, and not a pulse generator per se. I guess
if I could find a spare one it could be put on a bench, and spun with an
electric drill and looked at on a scope, but I have not done that yet.
What makes me think it is an AC Synchro gen. is the fact that with one wire
broken it will work "backwards", which is typical synchro behavior, that...
and the fact that it is a three wire system. Further, any loss of shielding
and the amount of radio noise generated by that sucker is off the chart.
If I can find a spare this weekend, I will put it on a bench.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Dee L. Conger [mailto:dee@ansatainc.com]
Subject: Yak-List: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dee L. Conger" <dee@ansatainc.com>
Does anyone know the specs on the M14P tach generator? How many pulses
per RPM? What voltage? I'm working with JPI to develop the EDM930 for
the M14. Also, I'm looking for a wiring diagram for the fuel sender /
gauge for the Yak 50
Dee L. Conger
(858) 754-3010 Direct
Message 17
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| Subject: | M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dee L. Conger" <dee@ansatainc.com>
________________________________
From: Dee L. Conger
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender
Thanks - per the M14P engine manual, the gear ratio is .857:1 for the tach generator.
The P lead option (per JPI) is not the best solution - if the tach generator
doesn't work, we can use a hall effect sensor on the mag that senses magnetic
field. I'm looking into both options.
________________________________
From: Petri David S Contractor USNORTHCOM J35 [mailto:David.Petri@northcom.mil]
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender
Mark,
You're right, it's a 3 phase AC unit. Puts out around 50VAC... give or take as
it is variable. The hard part about bench testing is knowing the gear ratio
off the accessory package so you have a good idea how fast to spin it. BTW, a
standard 1/4" drive extension can be chucked in a drill to spin this baby.
Dee,
If you're designing a new engine monitor, you are better off simply tapping the
tach off the mag p-leads at the mag switch. Futzing with this tach gen will
be a bear... see gear ratio comment.
Cheers,
Dave
David Petri
USNORTHCOM J35
Maritime Operations Planner
Contractor, SYColeman
Commercial 719.556.3630
DSN 834-3630
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bitterlich GS11
Mark G
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender
--> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Dee, I have no solid facts to go on when I say this (such as an internal
wiring diagram), but my impression is that the M-14 Tach Generator is a
three phase AC synchro generator, and not a pulse generator per se. I guess
if I could find a spare one it could be put on a bench, and spun with an
electric drill and looked at on a scope, but I have not done that yet.
What makes me think it is an AC Synchro gen. is the fact that with one wire
broken it will work "backwards", which is typical synchro behavior, that...
and the fact that it is a three wire system. Further, any loss of shielding
and the amount of radio noise generated by that sucker is off the chart.
If I can find a spare this weekend, I will put it on a bench.
Mark Bitterlich
N50YK
-----Original Message-----
From: Dee L. Conger [mailto:dee@ansatainc.com]
Subject: Yak-List: M14P Tach Generator / Yak 50 Fuel Sender
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Dee L. Conger" <dee@ansatainc.com>
Does anyone know the specs on the M14P tach generator? How many pulses
per RPM? What voltage? I'm working with JPI to develop the EDM930 for
the M14. Also, I'm looking for a wiring diagram for the fuel sender /
gauge for the Yak 50
Dee L. Conger
(858) 754-3010 Direct
Message 18
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| Subject: | Formation Aerobatics |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Lance Robb" <lrob4783@bigpond.net.au>
Hi Guys,
A few of our formation/aerobatic pilots have expressed an interest in
starting formation aerobatics so I thought I'd ask the group if there was
anyone who knew of a handbook or notes or even personal experience who would
like to throw some light on this subject for me.
As you can imagine we are not going to rush out and start without having
some material and or advise from those who have already been there and done
it.
And it gets us off the previous couple of thrashed to death threads :))
Thanks,
Lance Robb
NQ Warbirds Aust
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: M14P tach generator |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Frank Stelwagon" <pfstelwagon@earthlink.net>
Check with EI in Oregon, several of their Tachs are flying in CJs (2 1/4 inch).
Horizon instruments also has a tach (3 1/4 inch) that works fine in a CJ. Both
run off the P leads. The stock generator is a three phase generator not a
pulse generator.
Frank
CJ6-A N23021
Message 20
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Who's going to TICO tomorrow? I plan on leaving FD44 at 07 something. I'd
like to have breakfast at TIX before the airshow stuff starts.
Pappy
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Does anyone out there have a spare oil hose attach fitting for the CJ6 oil cooler?
Or one from a Yak 52 which is probably the same.
Please contact me off list if you have one or have an idea where I might find one.
Many thanks.
Walt
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