Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:38 AM - Re: Warbird Down (Steve Newing)
2. 07:04 AM - Re: T6 down and RUMORS (Ernest Martinez)
3. 07:33 AM - Re: Yak 52 Gear (A. Dennis Savarese)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: Yak 52 Gear (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 10:05 AM - Red Star is in FULL FORCE!!! (Num1Pilot@AOL.COM)
6. 05:56 PM - Re: T6 down and RUMORS (Jon Boede)
7. 10:50 PM - Re: T6 down and RUMORS (Brian Lloyd)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Warbird Down |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Steve Newing" <sbnewing@ozemail.com.au>
too late down here in australia we are already using both Yak52 and the CJ's
for adventure and combat flying.
steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Warbird Down
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Yep, we may see a lot more of this since the T-34's are grounded, they
> will start using T-6's for ACM for hire. This will result in a lot
> more folding wings. Lets hope that no one gets the idea of using CJ's
> and Yaks for Air Combat adventures.
>
> On a similar note a DC-3 under restoration at TICO had its gear
> collapse while an older volunteer and a 15 year old were underneath
> it, killing the man , and seriously injuring the kid.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 5/10/05, cpayne@joimail.com <cpayne@joimail.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "cpayne@joimail.com" <cpayne@joimail.com>
>>
>> A T-6 from Warbird Adventures out of Kissimmee went down
>> with two fatals. Rumor over at Kissimmee says wing
>> separation. The T-6 underwent extensive repair last year
>> after damage from the hurricanes.
>>
>> Craig Payne
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: T6 down and RUMORS |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Wasnt trying to engage in rumors. I was merely trying to point out the
fears of several T-6 owners that I know, that the Air Combat
operations around the country are switching to T-6's among other
airplanes since the T-34's are now grounded, and that we may start to
see similar results, with wings folding up on 60 year old planes that
are experiencing hard G manuvers day in and day out.
Also just trying to point out that these are old airplanes, metal has
memory, and that you cant overhaul a spar. We need to be very kind to
our elderly aircraft. People that go out and do hard acro every day in
these airplanes like they're flying a new Sukoi may be in for a
surprise. Just because an airplane has a 6 G limit doesnt mean that
you can constantly go to 75% of that limit and not expect accelerated
fatigue of critical components.
I made no inference to the Accident in Kissimmiee.
Ernie
On 5/11/05, Tom Johnson <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson" <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
>
> Gentleman:
> Please DO NOT start rumors about accidents.
>
> The T6 that went down was NOT damaged in a hurricane.
> The operation in Florida does NOT participate in ACM training.
>
> Tom JOhnson
>
>
>
Message 3
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Mark,
The actuators on the 52 do have locking balls which hold the gear in place
when the gear is down and locked. This mechanism is much like an air chuck,
except the typical air chuck has the locking balls external to the adapter
inserted in to the chuck. The principle is the same though. With DOWN air
pressure on the actuator and the locking balls in place, it would be
somewhat unlikely for an actuator to collapse. I would certainly remove
and disassemble the actuator.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bitterlich GS11 Mark G" <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Gear
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
> <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>
>
> A fellow I know at my local airport just had an incident where the left
> gear
> slowly collapsed upon landing. He claims that he had good down and locked
> indications. I know exactly how the landing gear on a 50 works, but am
> not
> 100% on a 52. My belief is that the landing gear actuators themselves
> have
> locking balls internal to the actuator that are indeed what holds the gear
> down and LOCKED...but I am not 100% sure of this since I have never worked
> on one.
>
> Any comments on the actuator and if something can break allowing what
> happened here to happen... would be appreciated.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
But with approx. 600 to 750 PSI also being applied to the down side of the
actuator, it's pretty difficult to force the actuator to the up position
thus pulling the drag link up, without first depleting the pressure from the
down side AND applying air pressure simultaneously to the UP side, releasing
the over-center latch and the locking balls.
A yak 52 can be taxied safely without air pressure in the actuators due to
the over center position of the drag link and the locking balls being in
place.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Yak 52 Gear
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
>
> Mark;
> The ball lock assembly is not the down lock per se. That is the function
> of
> the over center position of the drag link, side stay or strut. Gear
> collapse loads are reacted directly through this component preventing any
> such loading reaching the gear actuators.
> Were this not so severe loading of an extended actuator would result in
> gear
> collapse by bending of the actuator rod with the ball lock engaged
> (assuming
> the ball lock is capable of carrying that load, it may not be). This
> applies
> to the CJ nose gear and, I expect, all three on the Yak 52. (The CJ main
> gear actuators are retracted for gear down)
> The purpose of the ball lock is exactly the same as the over-center latch
> on
> most western aircraft. It keeps the down lock strut in the over center
> position. Without this feature rough ground, bounces, etc. could cause
> loss
> of over-center and gear collapse.
>
> Walt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bitterlich GS11 Mark G" <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak 52 Gear
>
>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Bitterlich GS11 Mark G
>> <BitterlichMG@cherrypoint.usmc.mil>
>>
>>
>> A fellow I know at my local airport just had an incident where the left
>> gear
>> slowly collapsed upon landing. He claims that he had good down and
>> locked
>> indications. I know exactly how the landing gear on a 50 works, but am
>> not
>> 100% on a 52. My belief is that the landing gear actuators themselves
>> have
>> locking balls internal to the actuator that are indeed what holds the
>> gear
>> down and LOCKED...but I am not 100% sure of this since I have never
>> worked
>> on one.
>>
>> Any comments on the actuator and if something can break allowing what
>> happened here to happen... would be appreciated.
>>
>> Mark Bitterlich
>> N50YK
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Red Star is in FULL FORCE!!! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Num1Pilot@aol.com
Red Star has started off with a loud bang. Over 20 aircraft are here
already and Sal did a few fly-by's in his Mig-21 this morning.... and it's only
Thursday!
Sorry Shrek, Doug can't buy you the first beer... there is a keg included
every night of the event!
Get your butts out here, the weather is great!
-Postal
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: T6 down and RUMORS |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
Every now and then I see stuff like this as the silver lining in the
Operating Limitations... it is, at least, marginally more difficult to go
out and Earn A Living by abusing a CJ or Yak.
Jon :-)
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Wasnt trying to engage in rumors. I was merely trying to point out the
> fears of several T-6 owners that I know, that the Air Combat
> operations around the country are switching to T-6's among other
> airplanes since the T-34's are now grounded, and that we may start to
> see similar results, with wings folding up on 60 year old planes that
> are experiencing hard G manuvers day in and day out.
>
> Also just trying to point out that these are old airplanes, metal has
> memory, and that you cant overhaul a spar. We need to be very kind to
> our elderly aircraft. People that go out and do hard acro every day in
> these airplanes like they're flying a new Sukoi may be in for a
> surprise. Just because an airplane has a 6 G limit doesnt mean that
> you can constantly go to 75% of that limit and not expect accelerated
> fatigue of critical components.
>
> I made no inference to the Accident in Kissimmiee.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 5/11/05, Tom Johnson <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Tom Johnson"
>> <tjohnson@cannonaviation.com>
>>
>> Gentleman:
>> Please DO NOT start rumors about accidents.
>>
>> The T6 that went down was NOT damaged in a hurricane.
>> The operation in Florida does NOT participate in ACM training.
>>
>> Tom JOhnson
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: T6 down and RUMORS |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Jon Boede wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> Every now and then I see stuff like this as the silver lining in the
> Operating Limitations... it is, at least, marginally more difficult to go
> out and Earn A Living by abusing a CJ or Yak.
But because the Russians and the Chinese insist upon a 100% overload factor in
their designs, we are unlikely to pull the wings off our airplanes either.
Bushi Cheng said he was unaware of any CJ6 that had ever suffered structural
failure in flight.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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