Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:05 AM - Dallas, TX Info (Terry Calloway)
2. 08:28 AM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (Ernest Martinez)
3. 09:24 AM - Re: Dallas, TX Info (Dave Laird)
4. 10:23 AM - Re: YAK (N13472@aol.com)
5. 11:17 AM - Re: YAK (Brian Lloyd)
6. 11:32 AM - Re: Re: All Red Star 2005 Images Now Online (Roger Doc Kemp)
7. 11:58 AM - Austin, TX (Brian Lloyd)
8. 01:00 PM - Lodging for MTW/OSH (ByronMFox@aol.com)
9. 01:29 PM - Re: Lodging for MTW/OSH (Terry Calloway)
10. 01:45 PM - Lodging for MTW/OSH (Terry Calloway)
11. 02:41 PM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (Jon Boede)
12. 03:18 PM - Re: Austin, TX (Roger Doc Kemp)
13. 03:23 PM - Re: Lodging for MTW/OSH ()
14. 03:41 PM - Re: Austin, TX (Brian Lloyd)
15. 03:45 PM - CJ W&B (DaBear)
16. 04:23 PM - Re: CJ W&B (Brian Lloyd)
17. 04:36 PM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (Ernest Martinez)
18. 05:16 PM - Re: Austin, (cjpilot710@aol.com)
19. 06:11 PM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (Doug Sapp)
20. 06:32 PM - Re: CJ W&B (Ernest Martinez)
21. 06:37 PM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (Ernest Martinez)
22. 06:47 PM - Re: CJ W&B (DaBear)
23. 06:52 PM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (DaBear)
24. 07:06 PM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (Ernest Martinez)
25. 07:10 PM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (Desmor944@AOL.COM)
26. 07:14 PM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (Doug Sapp)
27. 07:21 PM - Re: Austin, (Brian Lloyd)
28. 07:39 PM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (Brian Lloyd)
29. 07:44 PM - Re: CJ W&B (Brian Lloyd)
30. 08:06 PM - Re: CJ W&B (Brian Lloyd)
31. 09:26 PM - Re: 3 quarts / hour (Walter Lannon)
Message 1
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
Hi Gang,
I will be flying in to Dallas for a meeting the evening of June 26th.
The meeting is at 6565 North MacArthur Blvd
Irving, TX. Can someone recommend a GA airport for me to overnight my
plane that is reasonably close.
Thanks;
tc
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 3 quarts / hour |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Jon,
I had found my #1 #9 #2 cylinders all had loose nuts and 1 loose stud.
Apparently this is not uncommon for these engines. Were yours loose???
Ernie
On 6/5/05, Jon Boede <jon@email.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> This is the third time this has happened and it's been pretty consistent
> symptoms each time.
>
> 3 quarts an hour oil usage plus sloppy wet airplane = cylinder base gasket
> disintegrated.
>
> #1 this time.
>
> Just crossed 1,000 hours SMOH on the engine so I suppose I shouldn't
> complain. Just six hours to pull the cylinder and put a new gasket down;
> not something I was ever planning to get good at, but I yam. :-)
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Dallas, TX Info |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Dave Laird <dave@davelaird.com>
Terry,
You might try either Addison Airport (ADS) or
Dallas Executive Airport (RDB), (formerly Redbird).
However, if you really want the closest airport, then
you should land at DFW! Dallas Love Field (DAL) is not too far from
Irving, either.
But both DFW and Love are considered Primary Class B airports... so you
may have
to get permission to land an Experimental Exhibition category aircraft
there.
If you go to Addison(ADS), there are 3 FBO's:
Mercury
http://www.mercuryaircenters.com/NewMac/FBO_ADS.asp
Firstair
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KADS/FIRSTAIR
Million Air Dallas
http://www.millionairdallas.com/home.htm
Firstair is new at Addison and is getting really good reviews....
though I have not visited them and don't take my word on it!
They also have the cheapest fuel on the field at about $3.75/gal for
100LL as of this writing.
Check out the user comments about them at airnav.com.... oh..I think
they just moved to a new spot on the field, which
is right next to the Cavanaugh Flight Museum! Hey, maybe if your bird
is REALLY special... you could make it a museum
piece for a night ;)
http://www.cavanaughflightmuseum.com/
Let me know if I can be of any assistance...
Dave Laird
N63536 1983 CJ6A "Betty"
Dallas (based at Addison ADS)
On Jun 6, 2005, at 10:03 AM, Terry Calloway wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway"
> <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
>
> Hi Gang,
> I will be flying in to Dallas for a meeting the evening of June 26th.
> The meeting is at 6565 North MacArthur Blvd
> Irving, TX. Can someone recommend a GA airport for me to overnight my
> plane that is reasonably close.
> Thanks;
> tc
>
>
Message 4
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--> Yak-List message posted by: N13472@aol.com
In a message dated 6/5/2005 8:36:29 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
brian-yak@lloyd.com writes:
Where in Austin? I am moving there.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
NO NO Brian Not to the PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF AUSTIN !!!! That place may be in
Texas
but its NOT TEXAS. Its more like the MARIN county of the south.
Tom Elliott
CJ-6 NX63727
Sandy Valley NV
3L2
702-723-1223
Message 5
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
N13472@aol.com wrote:
> brian-yak@lloyd.com writes:
>
>> Where in Austin? I am moving there.
>
> NO NO Brian Not to the PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF AUSTIN !!!! That place may be in
> Texas but its NOT TEXAS. Its more like the MARIN county of the south.
Oh, I understand that. My aunt and uncle who live there are flaming liberals
who used to be associated with the University of Texas. Needless to say we
don't exactly see eye-to-eye politically. But that is where my parents are
going. They are getting on in years and I promised to be within range of them
so if indeed they do settle in Austin, I need to be within about 100nm to make
it an easy hop in the airplane.
Actually I really like the little town of Palestine, about 80nm SE of Dallas.
I am considering a place at one of the airparks around Austin. I don't plan to
live in the city proper.
And of course I may decide to go somewhere else after staying there for three
months.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: All Red Star 2005 Images Now Online |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Hard to believe that there is a bastone of liberalism in the center of Tx,
but Austin would be it.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
> To: YAK USA LIST <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/2/2005 10:04:12 AM
> Subject: Yak-List: Re: All Red Star 2005 Images Now Online
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
>
> Gang,
>
> I am forwarding Tyson's email to the list. It was originally a nice
> brochure type page, but the images have been omitted for this list.
> Some really cool photos here...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Barry
> On Jun 2, 2005, at 1:57 AM, Tyson Rininger wrote:
>
> > All Red Star 2005
> > Your Source for Aviation Imaging Solutions
> > Photography =95 Graphic Design =95 Web Design
> >
> > Thank you all for attending All Red Star 2005. After many failed
> > attempts, this was my first time having the pleasure of taking part.
> >
> > It was a joy meeting everybody and for those pilots brave enough in
> > allowing me to be a passenger, please accept my many thanks. Barry,
> > thank you so much for the invite...hope to be back next year!
> >
> > Images are now online for your viewing pleasure as well as sharing
> > with others. Ordering prints is easy and a 20% discount will be
> > extended to all ARS attendees.
> >
> > Below the enlarged photo is the file name of the image. Simply email
> > me with the file name(s) as well as the size and quantity desired. All
> > photos are processed on old fashioned archival paper from the lab...no
> > inkjet stuff.
> > Size
> > Reg Price
> > ARS Price
> > 5x7
> > $16.00
> > $12.80
> > 8x10/12
> > $28.00
> > $22.40
> > 11x14
> > $43.00
> > $34.40
> > 12x18
> > $58.00
> > $46.40
> >
> > Please add $3 for shipping & handling. My address can be found at the
> > bottom of this email.
> >
> > http://www.thinkaviation.com/gallery
> >
> >
> > Covering all aspects of the Aviation Industry
> >
> > =95 Air to Air Imagery
> >
> > =95 Aircraft Sales Imaging
> >
> > =95 Architectural Photography for your Facility
> >
> > =95 Nationwide Location Photography
> >
> > =95 Web-Ready and Press-Ready Imaging
> >
> > =95 Privately Commissioned Aerial Photography
> >
> > =95 Complete Company Profile Packages
> >
> > Huge selection of images available online!
> > TVR Photography =95 Tyson V. Rininger
> > P.O. Box 1227 =95 Monterey, CA 93942-1227
> > Office: 831.905.3210=95 Studio: 831.646.5236
> > Tyson@TVRPhotography.Com =95 http://www.tvrphotography.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Hard to believe that there is a bastone of liberalism in the center of Tx,
> but Austin would be it.
Oh, very definitely! It is very much a college town and that tends to skew the
leaning to the left. Still, there is a lot around Austin where you can find
more down-to-earth people who aren't really trying to control how other people
live their lives.
So my real interest is in airparks around Austin but I would probably settle
for anything from Austin up toward Dallas. I just need information from people
living around there as to good airports, good maintenance people, etc.
Also, Austin is near the center of the country. I can hop in my Aztec or
Comanche and be just about anywhere in the US in eight hours.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 8
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| Subject: | Lodging for MTW/OSH |
--> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
For those in the know. Will we be using the Heritage Inn in downtown
Manitowoc again this year? If so, has a special rate been arranged? Finally, is
it
appropriate to book now? Thanks, Blitz
Byron M. Fox
Mill Valley, CA
Nanchang CJ-6A
N221YK
415-307-2405
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Lodging for MTW/OSH |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
MTW Gang,
I have booked 5 rooms for our group there. I don't know the deals but
if you wish to call my Admin Zoe at 20-235-1000 she can fill you in.
tc
>>> ByronMFox@aol.com 6/6/2005 2:59 PM >>>
--> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
For those in the know. Will we be using the Heritage Inn in downtown
Manitowoc again this year? If so, has a special rate been arranged?
Finally, is it
appropriate to book now? Thanks, Blitz
Byron M. Fox
Mill Valley, CA
Nanchang CJ-6A
N221YK
415-307-2405
Message 10
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| Subject: | Lodging for MTW/OSH |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Terry Calloway" <tcalloway@datatechnique.com>
Zoe's phone number is 620-235-1000. Sorry for the typo.
tc
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 3 quarts / hour |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
One of the studs on the #1 cylinder had backed itself half way out. I
double-nutted all of them to screw them back in and some of them got a
couple of turns down before getting tight.
It'd hard to exactly say cause and effect, but following the loss of the
gasket, half the nuts were free-spinning loose.
I say that the engine has 1,000 SMOH on it, but really, I'm overhauling it
one cylinder at a time in a continuous process. :-)
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Jon,
>
> I had found my #1 #9 #2 cylinders all had loose nuts and 1 loose stud.
> Apparently this is not uncommon for these engines. Were yours loose???
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/5/05, Jon Boede <jon@email.net> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>
>> This is the third time this has happened and it's been pretty consistent
>> symptoms each time.
>>
>> 3 quarts an hour oil usage plus sloppy wet airplane = cylinder base
>> gasket
>> disintegrated.
>>
>> #1 this time.
>>
>> Just crossed 1,000 hours SMOH on the engine so I suppose I shouldn't
>> complain. Just six hours to pull the cylinder and put a new gasket
>> down;
>> not something I was ever planning to get good at, but I yam. :-)
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Well when you get feet dry and landed, plan on come to the Red Air Fall
Fling 14-16 Oct 05 at Selma (old Craig AFB), Al. KSEM.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/6/2005 1:58:00 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Austin, TX
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
> Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Hard to believe that there is a bastone of liberalism in the center of
Tx,
> > but Austin would be it.
>
> Oh, very definitely! It is very much a college town and that tends to
skew the
> leaning to the left. Still, there is a lot around Austin where you can
find
> more down-to-earth people who aren't really trying to control how other
people
> live their lives.
>
> So my real interest is in airparks around Austin but I would probably
settle
> for anything from Austin up toward Dallas. I just need information from
people
> living around there as to good airports, good maintenance people, etc.
>
> Also, Austin is near the center of the country. I can hop in my Aztec or
> Comanche and be just about anywhere in the US in eight hours.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Lodging for MTW/OSH |
--> Yak-List message posted by: <drc@wscare.com>
Heritage Inn 920-682-8271
I do not have the exact price but the discount is 15-20$ off the standard rate.
I will put out all of the hotel, car rental, schedule etc later this week.
Herb
-----Original message-----
From: ByronMFox@aol.com
Subject: Yak-List: Lodging for MTW/OSH
> --> Yak-List message posted by: ByronMFox@aol.com
>
> For those in the know. Will we be using the Heritage Inn in downtown
> Manitowoc again this year? If so, has a special rate been arranged? Finally,
is it
> appropriate to book now? Thanks, Blitz
>
>
> Byron M. Fox
> Mill Valley, CA
> Nanchang CJ-6A
> N221YK
> 415-307-2405
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Well when you get feet dry and landed, plan on come to the Red Air Fall
> Fling 14-16 Oct 05 at Selma (old Craig AFB), Al. KSEM.
I expect to be "in country" permanently sometime in the latter half of July. I
will only have my Aztec but when the boat sells I plan to finish The Project
post haste so I have something fun to fly.
So, time to start working on formation procedures for the Aztec. Whaddya
think, maybe an Aztec flight demonstration team? If I paint red stars on it do
you think I can fool people into thinking it is a ruski airplane?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 15
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--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
Folks,
I would appreciate some assistance from the CJ6 Community. I've redone
my W&B since adding the M14P to the front of my CJ. In gathering input
from some folks, I'm finding that people are using different stations
for their measurements/calculations even though their datum may be the
same. Would you send me your W&B information? I'll keep it anonymous
if I post any analysis. But specifically, I'd like to know the following:
Nose wheel weight
Right Main Weight
Left Main Weight
Distance between Nose wheel and Main
Datum you are using
Station locations:
Oil Tank
Pilot
Fuel
GIB
Baggage area (Please explain size)
Tail Cone
Thank you for your assistance, I'll forward the analysis when I'm done.
Please send it to me in email directly, not the the yak-list.
Al DeVere
Message 16
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
DaBear wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
>
> Folks,
>
> I would appreciate some assistance from the CJ6 Community. I've redone
> my W&B since adding the M14P to the front of my CJ. In gathering input
> from some folks, I'm finding that people are using different stations
> for their measurements/calculations even though their datum may be the
> same. Would you send me your W&B information? I'll keep it anonymous
> if I post any analysis. But specifically, I'd like to know the following:
Al, check the archives. I think I posted all of this about 5 years back. I
posted it after a flap where we discovered several dissimilar CJ6As with
identical W&B sheets.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 3 quarts / hour |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I will be willing to bet that the adjacent cylinders also have loose
nuts/studs. Check the bases, where ever you see the gasket"pooching"
out, is a prime candidate for loose nuts.
Ernie
On 6/6/05, Jon Boede <jon@email.net> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> One of the studs on the #1 cylinder had backed itself half way out. I
> double-nutted all of them to screw them back in and some of them got a
> couple of turns down before getting tight.
>
> It'd hard to exactly say cause and effect, but following the loss of the
> gasket, half the nuts were free-spinning loose.
>
> I say that the engine has 1,000 SMOH on it, but really, I'm overhauling it
> one cylinder at a time in a continuous process. :-)
>
> Jon
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > Jon,
> >
> > I had found my #1 #9 #2 cylinders all had loose nuts and 1 loose stud.
> > Apparently this is not uncommon for these engines. Were yours loose???
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 6/5/05, Jon Boede <jon@email.net> wrote:
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
> >>
> >> This is the third time this has happened and it's been pretty consistent
> >> symptoms each time.
> >>
> >> 3 quarts an hour oil usage plus sloppy wet airplane = cylinder base
> >> gasket
> >> disintegrated.
> >>
> >> #1 this time.
> >>
> >> Just crossed 1,000 hours SMOH on the engine so I suppose I shouldn't
> >> complain. Just six hours to pull the cylinder and put a new gasket
> >> down;
> >> not something I was ever planning to get good at, but I yam. :-)
> >>
> >> Jon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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--> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
Brain,
Maybe you do what Walt Frickie did with his Stagger Wing Beech. Paint it in Aeroflot
colors. The classic folks at OSH were somewhat miffed at it. But you know
Walt. He even had bill board with a very funny tong in cheek narrative about
how Aeroflot "designed" the airplane.
I'm still out with the B-24. Right now in Chico, Ca. One of our pilots came down
with a rare viral pneumonia and isn't expected to live. I've been delayed
to get home until the 14th because our crew schedule is kind of messed up.
The Chinese AND Russian engine seemed prone to loose cylinders. I believe it would
be prudent that all of us keep close watch for this. It'd be interesting
if we could come up with some cause and effect that would point to why this studs
seem to loosen.
I've never had it happen to me (knock on wood) but in ten years have heard of at
least 2 or 3 folks a year complain about the problem. Question to ask>
1. Is it do assembly?
2. Operation?
3. Cycles?
4. Materials?
5. Design?
I'm willing to bet that all 5 are involved to different degrees.
A short time ago I was approached by a retired USAF type who offered to track our
equipment problems. This is easier said than done. The most important is
participation by owners/pilots. Most of us are very independent and keep our
"problems" to ourself.
Pappy
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Austin, TX
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Roger Doc Kemp wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Well when you get feet dry and landed, plan on come to the Red Air Fall
> Fling 14-16 Oct 05 at Selma (old Craig AFB), Al. KSEM.
I expect to be "in country" permanently sometime in the latter half of July. I
will only have my Aztec but when the boat sells I plan to finish The Project
post haste so I have something fun to fly.
So, time to start working on formation procedures for the Aztec. Whaddya
think, maybe an Aztec flight demonstration team? If I paint red stars on it do
you think I can fool people into thinking it is a ruski airplane?
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 19
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
Food for thought:
Some time ago I was talking to some sage type about this loose stud problem.
He only asked one question, what was causing the problem? "The studs were
working up though the nuts until the lower thread pitch (which is different
than the upper thread pitch) blocks against the lower threads in the nut,
this makes the cylinder just loose enough to blow the base gaskets", I
replied. After thinking about 30 seconds he said, "Why don't you first
check all the nuts for proper torque, this done, replace all the lock tabs
then clean the top of the stud and nut with MEK and use the super lock tight
on the top of the stud and lock tight it to the nut." Put some of the
Torque seal type of paint on the tops of the stud so if the stud did start
to turn in spite of the lock tight it could be easily seen. The point is
simply that the clip is holding the nut and if the nut was bonded to the
stud, then neither can turn and we don't have a problem. Seems to easy.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jon Boede
Subject: Re: Yak-List: 3 quarts / hour
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
One of the studs on the #1 cylinder had backed itself half way out. I
double-nutted all of them to screw them back in and some of them got a
couple of turns down before getting tight.
It'd hard to exactly say cause and effect, but following the loss of the
gasket, half the nuts were free-spinning loose.
I say that the engine has 1,000 SMOH on it, but really, I'm overhauling it
one cylinder at a time in a continuous process. :-)
Jon
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Jon,
>
> I had found my #1 #9 #2 cylinders all had loose nuts and 1 loose stud.
> Apparently this is not uncommon for these engines. Were yours loose???
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/5/05, Jon Boede <jon@email.net> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>
>> This is the third time this has happened and it's been pretty consistent
>> symptoms each time.
>>
>> 3 quarts an hour oil usage plus sloppy wet airplane = cylinder base
>> gasket
>> disintegrated.
>>
>> #1 this time.
>>
>> Just crossed 1,000 hours SMOH on the engine so I suppose I shouldn't
>> complain. Just six hours to pull the cylinder and put a new gasket
>> down;
>> not something I was ever planning to get good at, but I yam. :-)
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 20
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Wasnt that long ago, it was 2.5 years ago when I was doing the W&B on
my airplane. Brian posted very accurate datums.
Ernie
On 6/6/05, Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>
> DaBear wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > I would appreciate some assistance from the CJ6 Community. I've redone
> > my W&B since adding the M14P to the front of my CJ. In gathering input
> > from some folks, I'm finding that people are using different stations
> > for their measurements/calculations even though their datum may be the
> > same. Would you send me your W&B information? I'll keep it anonymous
> > if I post any analysis. But specifically, I'd like to know the following:
>
> Al, check the archives. I think I posted all of this about 5 years back. I
> posted it after a flap where we discovered several dissimilar CJ6As with
> identical W&B sheets.
>
> --
> Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
> brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
> http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
> +1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 3 quarts / hour |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Oddly enough I was having this same discussion with my local IA here
today prior to this thread, and the mystery was, "Why does the problem
only occur on the top cylinders?" which my.. albeit cursory
investigation had deduced. His theory was since we're using paper
gaskets, they're "flowing" out over time just from the force of
gravity. He continued with his explanation of rivets which will work
harden from gravity just from sitting in a draw for an extended period
of time.
Ernie
On 6/6/05, Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>
> Food for thought:
> Some time ago I was talking to some sage type about this loose stud problem.
> He only asked one question, what was causing the problem? "The studs were
> working up though the nuts until the lower thread pitch (which is different
> than the upper thread pitch) blocks against the lower threads in the nut,
> this makes the cylinder just loose enough to blow the base gaskets", I
> replied. After thinking about 30 seconds he said, "Why don't you first
> check all the nuts for proper torque, this done, replace all the lock tabs
> then clean the top of the stud and nut with MEK and use the super lock tight
> on the top of the stud and lock tight it to the nut." Put some of the
> Torque seal type of paint on the tops of the stud so if the stud did start
> to turn in spite of the lock tight it could be easily seen. The point is
> simply that the clip is holding the nut and if the nut was bonded to the
> stud, then neither can turn and we don't have a problem. Seems to easy.
>
> Always Yakin,
> Doug Sapp
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jon Boede
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: 3 quarts / hour
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>
> One of the studs on the #1 cylinder had backed itself half way out. I
> double-nutted all of them to screw them back in and some of them got a
> couple of turns down before getting tight.
>
> It'd hard to exactly say cause and effect, but following the loss of the
> gasket, half the nuts were free-spinning loose.
>
> I say that the engine has 1,000 SMOH on it, but really, I'm overhauling it
> one cylinder at a time in a continuous process. :-)
>
> Jon
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > Jon,
> >
> > I had found my #1 #9 #2 cylinders all had loose nuts and 1 loose stud.
> > Apparently this is not uncommon for these engines. Were yours loose???
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 6/5/05, Jon Boede <jon@email.net> wrote:
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
> >>
> >> This is the third time this has happened and it's been pretty consistent
> >> symptoms each time.
> >>
> >> 3 quarts an hour oil usage plus sloppy wet airplane = cylinder base
> >> gasket
> >> disintegrated.
> >>
> >> #1 this time.
> >>
> >> Just crossed 1,000 hours SMOH on the engine so I suppose I shouldn't
> >> complain. Just six hours to pull the cylinder and put a new gasket
> >> down;
> >> not something I was ever planning to get good at, but I yam. :-)
> >>
> >> Jon
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
Note, I'm NOT doing this to start a flame war, nor to cause any
problems. That is why I asked for the data directly to me, rather than
on the list. I'd post my findings to list with no names attached after
analysis. Why do this you ask. Well, because I have the station points
from 5 people who are well known in this community. I input my data
using their stations and I get VERY different CGs. So much difference
that with a 250lb pilot, 220lb GIB, and 40lb baggage, I'm seeing
differences between 17.45%MAC and 19.13%.
Now, you would think that half an inch here and there can't be that big
a deal, however people are using stations (with same datum) that are
2-11 inches difference. What I'd like to do is see what people have
out there and gather some statistics. But I think I'm also headed back
into the shop to weigh a person, and put them in each station to see the
scales calculation. Then do the same with the baggage compartment,
fuel, oil, smoke oil.
Btw, everyone seems to agree on length of MAC, location of 0% MAC ahead
of Main Gear.
Al DeVere
Ernest Martinez wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
>Wasnt that long ago, it was 2.5 years ago when I was doing the W&B on
>my airplane. Brian posted very accurate datums.
>
>Ernie
>
>On 6/6/05, Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> wrote:
>
>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>>
>>
>>DaBear wrote:
>>
>>
>>>--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
>>>
>>>Folks,
>>>
>>>I would appreciate some assistance from the CJ6 Community. I've redone
>>>my W&B since adding the M14P to the front of my CJ. In gathering input
>>>from some folks, I'm finding that people are using different stations
>>>for their measurements/calculations even though their datum may be the
>>>same. Would you send me your W&B information? I'll keep it anonymous
>>>if I post any analysis. But specifically, I'd like to know the following:
>>>
>>>
>>Al, check the archives. I think I posted all of this about 5 years back. I
>>posted it after a flap where we discovered several dissimilar CJ6As with
>>identical W&B sheets.
>>
>>--
>>Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
>>brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
>>http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
>>+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>>
>>I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
>>- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 3 quarts / hour |
--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
However, I can name at least one time where this occurred in a lower
cylinder.
Al DeVere
Ernest Martinez wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
>Oddly enough I was having this same discussion with my local IA here
>today prior to this thread, and the mystery was, "Why does the problem
>only occur on the top cylinders?" which my.. albeit cursory
>investigation had deduced. His theory was since we're using paper
>gaskets, they're "flowing" out over time just from the force of
>gravity. He continued with his explanation of rivets which will work
>harden from gravity just from sitting in a draw for an extended period
>of time.
>
>Ernie
>
>On 6/6/05, Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com> wrote:
>
>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>>
>>Food for thought:
>>Some time ago I was talking to some sage type about this loose stud problem.
>>He only asked one question, what was causing the problem? "The studs were
>>working up though the nuts until the lower thread pitch (which is different
>>than the upper thread pitch) blocks against the lower threads in the nut,
>>this makes the cylinder just loose enough to blow the base gaskets", I
>>replied. After thinking about 30 seconds he said, "Why don't you first
>>check all the nuts for proper torque, this done, replace all the lock tabs
>>then clean the top of the stud and nut with MEK and use the super lock tight
>>on the top of the stud and lock tight it to the nut." Put some of the
>>Torque seal type of paint on the tops of the stud so if the stud did start
>>to turn in spite of the lock tight it could be easily seen. The point is
>>simply that the clip is holding the nut and if the nut was bonded to the
>>stud, then neither can turn and we don't have a problem. Seems to easy.
>>
>>Always Yakin,
>>Doug Sapp
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jon Boede
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: 3 quarts / hour
>>
>>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>
>>One of the studs on the #1 cylinder had backed itself half way out. I
>>double-nutted all of them to screw them back in and some of them got a
>>couple of turns down before getting tight.
>>
>>It'd hard to exactly say cause and effect, but following the loss of the
>>gasket, half the nuts were free-spinning loose.
>>
>>I say that the engine has 1,000 SMOH on it, but really, I'm overhauling it
>>one cylinder at a time in a continuous process. :-)
>>
>>Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>Jon,
>>>
>>>I had found my #1 #9 #2 cylinders all had loose nuts and 1 loose stud.
>>>Apparently this is not uncommon for these engines. Were yours loose???
>>>
>>>Ernie
>>>
>>>On 6/5/05, Jon Boede <jon@email.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>>>
>>>>This is the third time this has happened and it's been pretty consistent
>>>>symptoms each time.
>>>>
>>>>3 quarts an hour oil usage plus sloppy wet airplane = cylinder base
>>>>gasket
>>>>disintegrated.
>>>>
>>>>#1 this time.
>>>>
>>>>Just crossed 1,000 hours SMOH on the engine so I suppose I shouldn't
>>>>complain. Just six hours to pull the cylinder and put a new gasket
>>>>down;
>>>>not something I was ever planning to get good at, but I yam. :-)
>>>>
>>>>Jon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 3 quarts / hour |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
http://www.tc.gc.ca/civilaviation/systemsafety/newsletters/tp3658/pdf/3_2000.pdf
On 6/6/05, Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oddly enough I was having this same discussion with my local IA here
> today prior to this thread, and the mystery was, "Why does the problem
> only occur on the top cylinders?" which my.. albeit cursory
> investigation had deduced. His theory was since we're using paper
> gaskets, they're "flowing" out over time just from the force of
> gravity. He continued with his explanation of rivets which will work
> harden from gravity just from sitting in a draw for an extended period
> of time.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/6/05, Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
> >
> > Food for thought:
> > Some time ago I was talking to some sage type about this loose stud problem.
> > He only asked one question, what was causing the problem? "The studs were
> > working up though the nuts until the lower thread pitch (which is different
> > than the upper thread pitch) blocks against the lower threads in the nut,
> > this makes the cylinder just loose enough to blow the base gaskets", I
> > replied. After thinking about 30 seconds he said, "Why don't you first
> > check all the nuts for proper torque, this done, replace all the lock tabs
> > then clean the top of the stud and nut with MEK and use the super lock tight
> > on the top of the stud and lock tight it to the nut." Put some of the
> > Torque seal type of paint on the tops of the stud so if the stud did start
> > to turn in spite of the lock tight it could be easily seen. The point is
> > simply that the clip is holding the nut and if the nut was bonded to the
> > stud, then neither can turn and we don't have a problem. Seems to easy.
> >
> > Always Yakin,
> > Doug Sapp
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jon Boede
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: 3 quarts / hour
> >
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
> >
> > One of the studs on the #1 cylinder had backed itself half way out. I
> > double-nutted all of them to screw them back in and some of them got a
> > couple of turns down before getting tight.
> >
> > It'd hard to exactly say cause and effect, but following the loss of the
> > gasket, half the nuts were free-spinning loose.
> >
> > I say that the engine has 1,000 SMOH on it, but really, I'm overhauling it
> > one cylinder at a time in a continuous process. :-)
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > Jon,
> > >
> > > I had found my #1 #9 #2 cylinders all had loose nuts and 1 loose stud.
> > > Apparently this is not uncommon for these engines. Were yours loose???
> > >
> > > Ernie
> > >
> > > On 6/5/05, Jon Boede <jon@email.net> wrote:
> > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
> > >>
> > >> This is the third time this has happened and it's been pretty consistent
> > >> symptoms each time.
> > >>
> > >> 3 quarts an hour oil usage plus sloppy wet airplane = cylinder base
> > >> gasket
> > >> disintegrated.
> > >>
> > >> #1 this time.
> > >>
> > >> Just crossed 1,000 hours SMOH on the engine so I suppose I shouldn't
> > >> complain. Just six hours to pull the cylinder and put a new gasket
> > >> down;
> > >> not something I was ever planning to get good at, but I yam. :-)
> > >>
> > >> Jon
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: 3 quarts / hour |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Desmor944@aol.com
Had a similar experience this weekend, with oil streamed back the length of
the nose wheel well, and the gasket protruding from under #7 cylinder.
I'm considering re-assembly without the gasket using Hylomar compound. This
product was originally developed for sealing the case halves of the Merlin
engines. After 50+ years of refinement, Hylomar PL32 (also SQ32M) is a
polyester-urethane based, non-setting, non-hardening sealing compound for aerospace
applications. It is used by Rolls-Royce for sealing metal to metal joints on
their aero and industrial turbine engines, and we also use it on our steam
turbines. Operating temperature range is -50C to +250C, and it is resistant to
oils, fuels, and combustion byproducts.
The logic is that without the gasket to crush and ultimately work its way
out, stud tension will be maintained and the cylinder hold down nuts would stay
tight. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
Rich Desmond
Message 26
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
I would have to agree, I have seen lower cylinders with the same problems.
IMHO there is no hard and fast rule as to which cylinders will fail first.
Always Yakin,
Doug Sapp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of DaBear
Subject: Re: Yak-List: 3 quarts / hour
--> Yak-List message posted by: DaBear <dabear@damned.org>
However, I can name at least one time where this occurred in a lower
cylinder.
Al DeVere
Ernest Martinez wrote:
>--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
>Oddly enough I was having this same discussion with my local IA here
>today prior to this thread, and the mystery was, "Why does the problem
>only occur on the top cylinders?" which my.. albeit cursory
>investigation had deduced. His theory was since we're using paper
>gaskets, they're "flowing" out over time just from the force of
>gravity. He continued with his explanation of rivets which will work
>harden from gravity just from sitting in a draw for an extended period
>of time.
>
>Ernie
>
>On 6/6/05, Doug Sapp <rvfltd@televar.com> wrote:
>
>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Doug Sapp" <rvfltd@televar.com>
>>
>>Food for thought:
>>Some time ago I was talking to some sage type about this loose stud
problem.
>>He only asked one question, what was causing the problem? "The studs were
>>working up though the nuts until the lower thread pitch (which is
different
>>than the upper thread pitch) blocks against the lower threads in the nut,
>>this makes the cylinder just loose enough to blow the base gaskets", I
>>replied. After thinking about 30 seconds he said, "Why don't you first
>>check all the nuts for proper torque, this done, replace all the lock tabs
>>then clean the top of the stud and nut with MEK and use the super lock
tight
>>on the top of the stud and lock tight it to the nut." Put some of the
>>Torque seal type of paint on the tops of the stud so if the stud did start
>>to turn in spite of the lock tight it could be easily seen. The point is
>>simply that the clip is holding the nut and if the nut was bonded to the
>>stud, then neither can turn and we don't have a problem. Seems to easy.
>>
>>Always Yakin,
>>Doug Sapp
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-yak-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jon Boede
>>To: yak-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Yak-List: 3 quarts / hour
>>
>>
>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>
>>One of the studs on the #1 cylinder had backed itself half way out. I
>>double-nutted all of them to screw them back in and some of them got a
>>couple of turns down before getting tight.
>>
>>It'd hard to exactly say cause and effect, but following the loss of the
>>gasket, half the nuts were free-spinning loose.
>>
>>I say that the engine has 1,000 SMOH on it, but really, I'm overhauling it
>>one cylinder at a time in a continuous process. :-)
>>
>>Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>>
>>>Jon,
>>>
>>>I had found my #1 #9 #2 cylinders all had loose nuts and 1 loose stud.
>>>Apparently this is not uncommon for these engines. Were yours loose???
>>>
>>>Ernie
>>>
>>>On 6/5/05, Jon Boede <jon@email.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Jon Boede" <jon@email.net>
>>>>
>>>>This is the third time this has happened and it's been pretty consistent
>>>>symptoms each time.
>>>>
>>>>3 quarts an hour oil usage plus sloppy wet airplane = cylinder base
>>>>gasket
>>>>disintegrated.
>>>>
>>>>#1 this time.
>>>>
>>>>Just crossed 1,000 hours SMOH on the engine so I suppose I shouldn't
>>>>complain. Just six hours to pull the cylinder and put a new gasket
>>>>down;
>>>>not something I was ever planning to get good at, but I yam. :-)
>>>>
>>>>Jon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 27
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
cjpilot710@aol.com wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: cjpilot710@aol.com
>
> Brain,
> Maybe you do what Walt Frickie did with his Stagger Wing Beech. Paint it in Aeroflot
colors. The classic folks at OSH were somewhat miffed at it. But you
know Walt. He even had bill board with a very funny tong in cheek narrative
about how Aeroflot "designed" the airplane.
You remember when Bushi Cheng told us that the Nanchang Aircraft Factory came
up with a twin-engine trainer and general workhorse, the CJ12B? No, that pair
of spinners is at least a 'D' so it must be the CJ12D.
> I'm still out with the B-24. Right now in Chico, Ca. One of our pilots came
down with a rare viral pneumonia and isn't expected to live. I've been delayed
to get home until the 14th because our crew schedule is kind of messed up.
Uh, you're kidding right? I hope you are kidding.
> The Chinese AND Russian engine seemed prone to loose cylinders. I believe it
would be prudent that all of us keep close watch for this. It'd be interesting
if we could come up with some cause and effect that would point to why this
studs seem to loosen.
We need to find out of the studs are backing out or stretching. One way would
be to torque everything down and then put a dab of paint on the nut and stud
and the nut, lockwasher, and case. If things start to move you will see where
the paint cracks. If it cracks at the top and bottom, the nut is turning. If
it cracks only at the bottom, the stud is moving.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: 3 quarts / hour |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ernest Martinez wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Oddly enough I was having this same discussion with my local IA here
> today prior to this thread, and the mystery was, "Why does the problem
> only occur on the top cylinders?" which my.. albeit cursory
> investigation had deduced. His theory was since we're using paper
> gaskets, they're "flowing" out over time just from the force of
> gravity. He continued with his explanation of rivets which will work
> harden from gravity just from sitting in a draw for an extended period
> of time.
Uh ... no.
The force of gravity is nothing compared to the hold-down force from the
cylinder base flange.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 29
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
Ernest Martinez wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Wasnt that long ago, it was 2.5 years ago when I was doing the W&B on
> my airplane. Brian posted very accurate datums.
It was before I moved to the islands and it was when I still had Betty. That
was at least 3.5 years ago but that doesn't matter.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 30
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--> Yak-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
DaBear wrote:
> Note, I'm NOT doing this to start a flame war, nor to cause any
> problems.
That's OK Al, that's what we are here for; to start a flame war.
> That is why I asked for the data directly to me, rather than
> on the list. I'd post my findings to list with no names attached after
> analysis. Why do this you ask. Well, because I have the station points
> from 5 people who are well known in this community. I input my data
> using their stations and I get VERY different CGs. So much difference
> that with a 250lb pilot, 220lb GIB, and 40lb baggage, I'm seeing
> differences between 17.45%MAC and 19.13%.
Interesting. I took my values from the Chinese manuals. I didn't actually
measure an airplane. If you do measure an airplane, publish your numbers next
to mine as I would like to see how much difference there is between the
Chinese documents and a real airplane.
It also might be interesting to see how far real airplanes differ from the specs.
Do you have the "Main Flight and Technical Data" manual? That has the Chinese
data. It does show the standard datum to be 769mm ahead of the main gear
contact point when the airplane is level.
BTW, one of the things to watch out for is that the Chinese did the CG data in
two dimensions and not just one as we do here. We don't usually concern
ourselves with how far the CG moves up and down, just how much it moves fore
and aft.
> Now, you would think that half an inch here and there can't be that big
> a deal, however people are using stations (with same datum) that are
> 2-11 inches difference.
That is a pretty big difference.
> What I'd like to do is see what people have
> out there and gather some statistics. But I think I'm also headed back
> into the shop to weigh a person, and put them in each station to see the
> scales calculation. Then do the same with the baggage compartment,
> fuel, oil, smoke oil.
>
> Btw, everyone seems to agree on length of MAC, location of 0% MAC ahead
> of Main Gear.
Well, that is a start. That is also data that comes from the Chinese manual.
--
Brian Lloyd 6501 Red Hook Plaza
brian-yak@lloyd.com Suite 201
http://www.lloyd.com St. Thomas, VI 00802
+1.340.998.9447 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: 3 quarts / hour |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Walter Lannon" <wlannon@cablerocket.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: <Desmor944@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: 3 quarts / hour
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Desmor944@aol.com
>
> Had a similar experience this weekend, with oil streamed back the length
> of
> the nose wheel well, and the gasket protruding from under #7 cylinder.
Have not yet seen a protruding gasket but I do expect to. All the engines I
maintain are relatively low time. The gasket idea kind of blows the mind but
does seem to work with the OEM product, with any homemade replacement I
would expect loose or broken studs in short order.
Gravity has nothing to do with the problem it is simply a loss of torque
resulting in cyclic loading of the studs, crankcase, cylinder flange, nuts
and, of course, the
gasket.
A failed gasket strongly suggests the following action: 1. Crack inspection
of the case, 2. Stud replacement due possible thread root cracking. 3. Use
of first oversize studs.
> I'm considering re-assembly without the gasket using Hylomar compound.
> This
> product was originally developed for sealing the case halves of the Merlin
> engines. After 50+ years of refinement, Hylomar PL32 (also SQ32M) is a
> polyester-urethane based, non-setting, non-hardening sealing compound for
> aerospace
> applications. It is used by Rolls-Royce for sealing metal to metal joints
> on
> their aero and industrial turbine engines, and we also use it on our steam
> turbines. Operating temperature range is -50C to +250C, and it is
> resistant to
> oils, fuels, and combustion byproducts.
I have installed a few cylinders on the Huosai and the M14. I do not use the
gasket. Both surfaces surgically clean with MEK or lacquer thinner and a
coating of Hylomar. 300 to 330 lb/in torque and lock with a standard AN 3/8"
PalNut.
Been using Hylomar for at least 40 years. Found it was the only way to dry
up the Ranger engine (mostly metal to metal joints) and install P&W
carburettors, also metal to metal.
> The logic is that without the gasket to crush and ultimately work its way
> out, stud tension will be maintained and the cylinder hold down nuts would
> stay
> tight. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
Amen!
Walt
> Rich Desmond
>
>
>
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