Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:31 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (A. Dennis Savarese)
2. 06:20 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
3. 06:27 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ernest Martinez)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (A. Dennis Savarese)
5. 06:56 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
6. 07:06 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (A. Dennis Savarese)
7. 07:19 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ernest Martinez)
8. 07:47 AM - CJ for sale (Kelley Monroe)
9. 07:56 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (airshowpilot1@aol.com)
10. 08:09 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ernest Martinez)
11. 08:28 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
12. 09:12 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
13. 09:28 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ernest Martinez)
14. 09:46 AM - yak aircombat coming to the RPA! (Drew Blahnick)
15. 09:53 AM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
16. 10:01 AM - Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! (Ernest Martinez)
17. 10:21 AM - Buy an RV (Roger Doc Kemp)
18. 10:29 AM - Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! (Roger Doc Kemp)
19. 11:26 AM - Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! (Ernest Martinez)
20. 11:52 AM - Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! (Roger Doc Kemp)
21. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: The Feds (Ron Davis)
22. 05:40 PM - Re: T-6, T-34 (Ron Davis)
23. 05:49 PM - Yak/CJ Spar inspections (Vance Cochrane)
24. 06:02 PM - Re: why does? (Ron Davis)
25. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: mmo,s ufo's, pto.s, etc.. (Ron Davis)
26. 06:22 PM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ron Davis)
27. 06:50 PM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Ron Davis)
28. 08:23 PM - Re: Yak/CJ Spar inspections (Roger Doc Kemp)
29. 08:30 PM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Roger Doc Kemp)
30. 09:32 PM - Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer (Barry Hancock)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Doc,
I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you and I
both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words almost
verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your sentiments. All
it will take is one.
ADS (Dennis)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter pilot
> for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get to be a
> Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot in a day
> or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to mint a
> steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
> "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes giving
> them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar flies, bat
> hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam. Yeah, I
> know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to proficiently
> fly
> the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day weekend
> clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send "Bubba"
> to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having no
> clue
> as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what stress
> he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a receipt for
> disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
> particularly here where travel stops between the east and west coast and
> only 5% of us have a passport.
> For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public to ACM.
> Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out after
> the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact that
> really pisses a crew chief off.
> But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have a
> barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A cold
> thought I know, but ....
> Doc
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew" <gfrew@attglobal.net>
>>
>> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used to work
> on
>> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie involving acm
>> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up 0.8 FI.
>> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> Nanchangs
>> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the wings
off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM for
John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us in
the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our crew
cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses them
off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
embarassment.
I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
community.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Doc,
> I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you and I
> both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words almost
> verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your sentiments.
All
> it will take is one.
> ADS (Dennis)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
pilot
> > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get to
be a
> > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot in a
day
> > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to mint
a
> > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
> > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
giving
> > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar flies,
bat
> > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam. Yeah, I
> > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to proficiently
> > fly
> > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day weekend
> > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
"Bubba"
> > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having no
> > clue
> > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
stress
> > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a receipt
for
> > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
> > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west coast and
> > only 5% of us have a passport.
> > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public to
ACM.
> > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out after
> > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact that
> > really pisses a crew chief off.
> > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have a
> > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A cold
> > thought I know, but ....
> > Doc
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew" <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> >>
> >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used to
work
> > on
> >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie involving
acm
> >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up 0.8 FI.
> >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> > Nanchangs
> >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
Ernie
On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the wings
> off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM for
> John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us in
> the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our crew
> cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses them
> off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
> embarassment.
> I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
> community.
> Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> > Doc,
> > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you and I
> > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words almost
> > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your sentiments.
> All
> > it will take is one.
> > ADS (Dennis)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >
> > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
> pilot
> > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get to
> be a
> > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot in a
> day
> > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to mint
> a
> > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
> > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
> giving
> > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar flies,
> bat
> > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam. Yeah, I
> > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to proficiently
> > > fly
> > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day weekend
> > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
> "Bubba"
> > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having no
> > > clue
> > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
> stress
> > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a receipt
> for
> > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
> > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west coast and
> > > only 5% of us have a passport.
> > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public to
> ACM.
> > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out after
> > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact that
> > > really pisses a crew chief off.
> > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have a
> > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A cold
> > > thought I know, but ....
> > > Doc
> > >
> > >
> > >> [Original Message]
> > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >>
> > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew" <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > >>
> > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used to
> work
> > > on
> > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie involving
> acm
> > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up 0.8 FI.
> > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> > > Nanchangs
> > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
It's ADS, not ADC. And that's me....Dennis. First name Anthony, middle
name Dennis.
-snipped from previous email- "....I completely echo your sentiments. All
it will take is one.
ADS (Dennis)"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest Martinez" <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the wings
>> off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM for
>> John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us in
>> the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our crew
>> cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses them
>> off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
>> embarassment.
>> I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
>> community.
>> Doc
>>
>>
>> > [Original Message]
>> > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
>> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>> >
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>> >
>> > Doc,
>> > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you and
>> > I
>> > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words
>> > almost
>> > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your sentiments.
>> All
>> > it will take is one.
>> > ADS (Dennis)
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>> >
>> >
>> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>> > >
>> > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
>> pilot
>> > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get to
>> be a
>> > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot in
>> > > a
>> day
>> > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to
>> > > mint
>> a
>> > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
>> > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
>> giving
>> > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar
>> > > flies,
>> bat
>> > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam.
>> > > Yeah, I
>> > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
>> > > proficiently
>> > > fly
>> > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
>> > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day weekend
>> > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
>> "Bubba"
>> > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having
>> > > no
>> > > clue
>> > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
>> stress
>> > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a receipt
>> for
>> > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
>> > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west coast
>> > > and
>> > > only 5% of us have a passport.
>> > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public to
>> ACM.
>> > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out
>> > > after
>> > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact
>> > > that
>> > > really pisses a crew chief off.
>> > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have a
>> > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A
>> > > cold
>> > > thought I know, but ....
>> > > Doc
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> [Original Message]
>> > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
>> > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
>> > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>> > >>
>> > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew" <gfrew@attglobal.net>
>> > >>
>> > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used to
>> work
>> > > on
>> > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
>> > >> involving
>> acm
>> > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up 0.8
>> > >> FI.
>> > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
>> > > Nanchangs
>> > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Earnie,
I think it was ADS not ADC. You do have to say the Boys down in Perth do
have a cool website though. Just may not have any airplanes with wings left
on them though...in time.
Anybody up for starting a Fighter Pilot for a day school with L-39's.
L-29's or how about Iscra's? Without wings, they'll make really great
"smoking holes"...Deep too. And its the damnedest thing, the VTR tape
always survives the fireball to tell the story! To bad we don't have VTR
tapes on those CJ's in Perth...Oh yes, they do, but do they show the G
meter and the instrument panel? Something that would be usefull at an
Aircraft Accident Board. Maybe we can encourage our Perth brethern to
include a camera shot of their instrumentation when they spinning up John Q
Public or for that matter maybe install a flight data recorder with
multiple sensors..wings, tail, fusalage, and cockpit.
If you get a chance, go to www.military.com and watch some of their videos
on the distruction of US aircraft for the sake of knowledge gained. The
CH-47 shaking itself to death due to ground resonance is quit impressive.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/23/2005 8:27:07 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the wings
> > off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM
for
> > John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us in
> > the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our
crew
> > cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses them
> > off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
> > embarassment.
> > I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
> > community.
> > Doc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> > <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > >
> > > Doc,
> > > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you
and I
> > > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words
almost
> > > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your
sentiments.
> > All
> > > it will take is one.
> > > ADS (Dennis)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >
> > > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
> > pilot
> > > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get
to
> > be a
> > > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot
in a
> > day
> > > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to
mint
> > a
> > > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
> > > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
> > giving
> > > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar
flies,
> > bat
> > > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam.
Yeah, I
> > > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
proficiently
> > > > fly
> > > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> > > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day
weekend
> > > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
> > "Bubba"
> > > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having
no
> > > > clue
> > > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
> > stress
> > > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a
receipt
> > for
> > > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
> > > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west
coast and
> > > > only 5% of us have a passport.
> > > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public
to
> > ACM.
> > > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out
after
> > > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact
that
> > > > really pisses a crew chief off.
> > > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have
a
> > > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A
cold
> > > > thought I know, but ....
> > > > Doc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> [Original Message]
> > > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > > >>
> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew" <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > > >>
> > > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used to
> > work
> > > > on
> > > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
involving
> > acm
> > > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up
0.8 FI.
> > > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> > > > Nanchangs
> > > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
Anybody read the "What is ACM Anyway" article in the "latest" (April-I just
got mine yesterday) issue of Warbirds? Very interesting reading! Even
talks about the F16 fatigue life issues, Doc.
Dennis
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Earnie,
> I think it was ADS not ADC. You do have to say the Boys down in Perth do
> have a cool website though. Just may not have any airplanes with wings
> left
> on them though...in time.
> Anybody up for starting a Fighter Pilot for a day school with L-39's.
> L-29's or how about Iscra's? Without wings, they'll make really great
> "smoking holes"...Deep too. And its the damnedest thing, the VTR tape
> always survives the fireball to tell the story! To bad we don't have VTR
> tapes on those CJ's in Perth...Oh yes, they do, but do they show the G
> meter and the instrument panel? Something that would be usefull at an
> Aircraft Accident Board. Maybe we can encourage our Perth brethern to
> include a camera shot of their instrumentation when they spinning up John
> Q
> Public or for that matter maybe install a flight data recorder with
> multiple sensors..wings, tail, fusalage, and cockpit.
> If you get a chance, go to www.military.com and watch some of their videos
> on the distruction of US aircraft for the sake of knowledge gained. The
> CH-47 shaking itself to death due to ground resonance is quit impressive.
> Doc
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: 6/23/2005 8:27:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>>
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>>
>> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
>>
>> Ernie
>>
>> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>> >
>> > After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the
>> > wings
>> > off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM
> for
>> > John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us
>> > in
>> > the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our
> crew
>> > cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses
>> > them
>> > off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
>> > embarassment.
>> > I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
>> > community.
>> > Doc
>> >
>> >
>> > > [Original Message]
>> > > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> > > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>> > >
>> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
>> > <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>> > >
>> > > Doc,
>> > > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you
> and I
>> > > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words
> almost
>> > > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your
> sentiments.
>> > All
>> > > it will take is one.
>> > > ADS (Dennis)
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>> > > >
>> > > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
>> > pilot
>> > > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get
> to
>> > be a
>> > > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot
> in a
>> > day
>> > > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to
> mint
>> > a
>> > > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
>> > > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
>> > giving
>> > > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar
> flies,
>> > bat
>> > > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam.
> Yeah, I
>> > > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
> proficiently
>> > > > fly
>> > > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
>> > > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day
> weekend
>> > > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
>> > "Bubba"
>> > > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having
> no
>> > > > clue
>> > > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
>> > stress
>> > > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a
> receipt
>> > for
>> > > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
>> > > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west
> coast and
>> > > > only 5% of us have a passport.
>> > > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public
> to
>> > ACM.
>> > > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out
> after
>> > > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact
> that
>> > > > really pisses a crew chief off.
>> > > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have
> a
>> > > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A
> cold
>> > > > thought I know, but ....
>> > > > Doc
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >> [Original Message]
>> > > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
>> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
>> > > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
>> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>> > > >>
>> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
>> > > >> <gfrew@attglobal.net>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used
>> > > >> to
>> > work
>> > > > on
>> > > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
> involving
>> > acm
>> > > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up
> 0.8 FI.
>> > > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
>> > > > Nanchangs
>> > > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
The new Warbird flyer talks about some outfit here in Lakeland Florida
offering ACM in Iskra's. A 30 minute flight in my L-29 now costs me
about $450 in fuel alone. How much would these guys have to charge for
one of their ACM rides????
Ernie
On 6/23/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Anybody read the "What is ACM Anyway" article in the "latest" (April-I just
> got mine yesterday) issue of Warbirds? Very interesting reading! Even
> talks about the F16 fatigue life issues, Doc.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Earnie,
> > I think it was ADS not ADC. You do have to say the Boys down in Perth do
> > have a cool website though. Just may not have any airplanes with wings
> > left
> > on them though...in time.
> > Anybody up for starting a Fighter Pilot for a day school with L-39's.
> > L-29's or how about Iscra's? Without wings, they'll make really great
> > "smoking holes"...Deep too. And its the damnedest thing, the VTR tape
> > always survives the fireball to tell the story! To bad we don't have VTR
> > tapes on those CJ's in Perth...Oh yes, they do, but do they show the G
> > meter and the instrument panel? Something that would be usefull at an
> > Aircraft Accident Board. Maybe we can encourage our Perth brethern to
> > include a camera shot of their instrumentation when they spinning up John
> > Q
> > Public or for that matter maybe install a flight data recorder with
> > multiple sensors..wings, tail, fusalage, and cockpit.
> > If you get a chance, go to www.military.com and watch some of their videos
> > on the distruction of US aircraft for the sake of knowledge gained. The
> > CH-47 shaking itself to death due to ground resonance is quit impressive.
> > Doc
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Date: 6/23/2005 8:27:07 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >>
> >> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
> >>
> >> Ernie
> >>
> >> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >> >
> >> > After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the
> >> > wings
> >> > off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM
> > for
> >> > John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us
> >> > in
> >> > the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our
> > crew
> >> > cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses
> >> > them
> >> > off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
> >> > embarassment.
> >> > I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
> >> > community.
> >> > Doc
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > [Original Message]
> >> > > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> > > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> >> > <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >> > >
> >> > > Doc,
> >> > > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you
> > and I
> >> > > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words
> > almost
> >> > > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your
> > sentiments.
> >> > All
> >> > > it will take is one.
> >> > > ADS (Dennis)
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> >> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >> > > >
> >> > > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
> >> > pilot
> >> > > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get
> > to
> >> > be a
> >> > > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot
> > in a
> >> > day
> >> > > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to
> > mint
> >> > a
> >> > > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
> >> > > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
> >> > giving
> >> > > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar
> > flies,
> >> > bat
> >> > > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam.
> > Yeah, I
> >> > > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
> > proficiently
> >> > > > fly
> >> > > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> >> > > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day
> > weekend
> >> > > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
> >> > "Bubba"
> >> > > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having
> > no
> >> > > > clue
> >> > > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
> >> > stress
> >> > > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a
> > receipt
> >> > for
> >> > > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
> >> > > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west
> > coast and
> >> > > > only 5% of us have a passport.
> >> > > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public
> > to
> >> > ACM.
> >> > > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out
> > after
> >> > > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact
> > that
> >> > > > really pisses a crew chief off.
> >> > > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have
> > a
> >> > > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A
> > cold
> >> > > > thought I know, but ....
> >> > > > Doc
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> [Original Message]
> >> > > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> >> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> > > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> >> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
> >> > > >> <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used
> >> > > >> to
> >> > work
> >> > > > on
> >> > > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
> > involving
> >> > acm
> >> > > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up
> > 0.8 FI.
> >> > > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> >> > > > Nanchangs
> >> > > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Kelley Monroe" <kelmonroe@comcast.net>
1972 CJ6A tt3400 airframe, tsoh1300 engine and tsoh25 prop. Cameo paint, tinted
canopies, ss exhaust,ss screws, ss filter, new interior paint, new seats, hooker
belts, Garmin 250XL gps/com, trans/encoder,intercom, large baggage area,
see ad on barnstormers.com $82,000. 612-508-3740
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: airshowpilot1@aol.com
Commercial operations involving the carriage of passengers for hire in any exhibition
category aircraft is prohibited. The FAA will allow "media flights" in
an air show environment but only when the pilot essentially pays for his own
gas. FAA put out a policy statement on this a few years back. The best way to
shut down the whole exhibition fleet is to give the regulating community the
opportunity to point a finger and say that they pulled the plug because too many
people were abusing the privilege.
W.A. Linscott
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
The new Warbird flyer talks about some outfit here in Lakeland Florida
offering ACM in Iskra's. A 30 minute flight in my L-29 now costs me
about $450 in fuel alone. How much would these guys have to charge for
one of their ACM rides????
Ernie
On 6/23/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Anybody read the "What is ACM Anyway" article in the "latest" (April-I just
> got mine yesterday) issue of Warbirds? Very interesting reading! Even
> talks about the F16 fatigue life issues, Doc.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Earnie,
> > I think it was ADS not ADC. You do have to say the Boys down in Perth do
> > have a cool website though. Just may not have any airplanes with wings
> > left
> > on them though...in time.
> > Anybody up for starting a Fighter Pilot for a day school with L-39's.
> > L-29's or how about Iscra's? Without wings, they'll make really great
> > "smoking holes"...Deep too. And its the damnedest thing, the VTR tape
> > always survives the fireball to tell the story! To bad we don't have VTR
> > tapes on those CJ's in Perth...Oh yes, they do, but do they show the G
> > meter and the instrument panel? Something that would be usefull at an
> > Aircraft Accident Board. Maybe we can encourage our Perth brethern to
> > include a camera shot of their instrumentation when they spinning up John
> > Q
> > Public or for that matter maybe install a flight data recorder with
> > multiple sensors..wings, tail, fusalage, and cockpit.
> > If you get a chance, go to www.military.com and watch some of their videos
> > on the distruction of US aircraft for the sake of knowledge gained. The
> > CH-47 shaking itself to death due to ground resonance is quit impressive.
> > Doc
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Date: 6/23/2005 8:27:07 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >>
> >> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
> >>
> >> Ernie
> >>
> >> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >> >
> >> > After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the
> >> > wings
> >> > off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM
> > for
> >> > John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us
> >> > in
> >> > the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our
> > crew
> >> > cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses
> >> > them
> >> > off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
> >> > embarassment.
> >> > I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
> >> > community.
> >> > Doc
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > [Original Message]
> >> > > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> > > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> >> > <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >> > >
> >> > > Doc,
> >> > > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you
> > and I
> >> > > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words
> > almost
> >> > > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your
> > sentiments.
> >> > All
> >> > > it will take is one.
> >> > > ADS (Dennis)
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> >> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >> > > >
> >> > > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
> >> > pilot
> >> > > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get
> > to
> >> > be a
> >> > > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot
> > in a
> >> > day
> >> > > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to
> > mint
> >> > a
> >> > > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
> >> > > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
> >> > giving
> >> > > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar
> > flies,
> >> > bat
> >> > > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam.
> > Yeah, I
> >> > > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
> > proficiently
> >> > > > fly
> >> > > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> >> > > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day
> > weekend
> >> > > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
> >> > "Bubba"
> >> > > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having
> > no
> >> > > > clue
> >> > > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
> >> > stress
> >> > > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a
> > receipt
> >> > for
> >> > > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
> >> > > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west
> > coast and
> >> > > > only 5% of us have a passport.
> >> > > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public
> > to
> >> > ACM.
> >> > > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out
> > after
> >> > > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact
> > that
> >> > > > really pisses a crew chief off.
> >> > > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have
> > a
> >> > > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A
> > cold
> >> > > > thought I know, but ....
> >> > > > Doc
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> [Original Message]
> >> > > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> >> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> > > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> >> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
> >> > > >> <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used
> >> > > >> to
> >> > work
> >> > > > on
> >> > > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
> > involving
> >> > acm
> >> > > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up
> > 0.8 FI.
> >> > > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> >> > > > Nanchangs
> >> > > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
The regs DO allow for "Training" flights, which is the loop hole that
these guys use. They claim that this is not a ride per se' but an
instruction flight.
Ernie
On 6/23/05, airshowpilot1@aol.com <airshowpilot1@aol.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: airshowpilot1@aol.com
>
> Commercial operations involving the carriage of passengers for hire in any exhibition
category aircraft is prohibited. The FAA will allow "media flights"
in an air show environment but only when the pilot essentially pays for his own
gas. FAA put out a policy statement on this a few years back. The best way
to shut down the whole exhibition fleet is to give the regulating community the
opportunity to point a finger and say that they pulled the plug because too
many people were abusing the privilege.
>
> W.A. Linscott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> The new Warbird flyer talks about some outfit here in Lakeland Florida
> offering ACM in Iskra's. A 30 minute flight in my L-29 now costs me
> about $450 in fuel alone. How much would these guys have to charge for
> one of their ACM rides????
>
> Ernie
>
>
> On 6/23/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> > Anybody read the "What is ACM Anyway" article in the "latest" (April-I just
> > got mine yesterday) issue of Warbirds? Very interesting reading! Even
> > talks about the F16 fatigue life issues, Doc.
> > Dennis
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >
> > > Earnie,
> > > I think it was ADS not ADC. You do have to say the Boys down in Perth do
> > > have a cool website though. Just may not have any airplanes with wings
> > > left
> > > on them though...in time.
> > > Anybody up for starting a Fighter Pilot for a day school with L-39's.
> > > L-29's or how about Iscra's? Without wings, they'll make really great
> > > "smoking holes"...Deep too. And its the damnedest thing, the VTR tape
> > > always survives the fireball to tell the story! To bad we don't have VTR
> > > tapes on those CJ's in Perth...Oh yes, they do, but do they show the G
> > > meter and the instrument panel? Something that would be usefull at an
> > > Aircraft Accident Board. Maybe we can encourage our Perth brethern to
> > > include a camera shot of their instrumentation when they spinning up John
> > > Q
> > > Public or for that matter maybe install a flight data recorder with
> > > multiple sensors..wings, tail, fusalage, and cockpit.
> > > If you get a chance, go to www.military.com and watch some of their videos
> > > on the distruction of US aircraft for the sake of knowledge gained. The
> > > CH-47 shaking itself to death due to ground resonance is quit impressive.
> > > Doc
> > >
> > >> [Original Message]
> > >> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > >> Date: 6/23/2005 8:27:07 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >>
> > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > >>
> > >> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
> > >>
> > >> Ernie
> > >>
> > >> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >> >
> > >> > After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the
> > >> > wings
> > >> > off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM
> > > for
> > >> > John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for us
> > >> > in
> > >> > the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our
> > > crew
> > >> > cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses
> > >> > them
> > >> > off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
> > >> > embarassment.
> > >> > I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to our
> > >> > community.
> > >> > Doc
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > > [Original Message]
> > >> > > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > >> > > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> > >> > <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Doc,
> > >> > > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you
> > > and I
> > >> > > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words
> > > almost
> > >> > > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your
> > > sentiments.
> > >> > All
> > >> > > it will take is one.
> > >> > > ADS (Dennis)
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > >> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this fighter
> > >> > pilot
> > >> > > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't get
> > > to
> > >> > be a
> > >> > > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot
> > > in a
> > >> > day
> > >> > > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO. to
> > > mint
> > >> > a
> > >> > > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is with
> > >> > > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That includes
> > >> > giving
> > >> > > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar
> > > flies,
> > >> > bat
> > >> > > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam.
> > > Yeah, I
> > >> > > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
> > > proficiently
> > >> > > > fly
> > >> > > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> > >> > > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day
> > > weekend
> > >> > > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
> > >> > "Bubba"
> > >> > > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned having
> > > no
> > >> > > > clue
> > >> > > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or what
> > >> > stress
> > >> > > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a
> > > receipt
> > >> > for
> > >> > > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK community,
> > >> > > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west
> > > coast and
> > >> > > > only 5% of us have a passport.
> > >> > > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q public
> > > to
> > >> > ACM.
> > >> > > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk out
> > > after
> > >> > > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a fact
> > > that
> > >> > > > really pisses a crew chief off.
> > >> > > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now have
> > > a
> > >> > > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ. A
> > > cold
> > >> > > > thought I know, but ....
> > >> > > > Doc
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >> [Original Message]
> > >> > > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > >> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > >> > > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> > >> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
> > >> > > >> <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters used
> > >> > > >> to
> > >> > work
> > >> > > > on
> > >> > > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
> > > involving
> > >> > acm
> > >> > > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up
> > > 0.8 FI.
> > >> > > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> > >> > > > Nanchangs
> > >> > > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
That was what I was refering to earlier. They are about to bring some heavy
weights to an airfield near you. Once they catch wind of the Boys down at
Lakeland. They are using Iscra's, a Canadian bird (Tudor, I think ) and an
L-39. They have it all covered except for the L-29. To answer Earnies
question, since I just had a major wrestling match with my self over to or
not to buy an L-39 or L-29. Ironically the operating cost was almost
exactly the same.....$1200 (everything included, fuel for 2 hours, oil,
wear and tear money for the engine kitty/ annual, and hangering). Decided I
could fly my YAK- 52 for a long time on what I would have payed for 1
sortie in the L-39. Oh that did not include the payment on the loan or the
liability insurance.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: <airshowpilot1@aol.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/23/2005 9:56:38 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: airshowpilot1@aol.com
>
> Commercial operations involving the carriage of passengers for hire in
any exhibition category aircraft is prohibited. The FAA will allow "media
flights" in an air show environment but only when the pilot essentially
pays for his own gas. FAA put out a policy statement on this a few years
back. The best way to shut down the whole exhibition fleet is to give the
regulating community the opportunity to point a finger and say that they
pulled the plug because too many people were abusing the privilege.
>
> W.A. Linscott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: yak-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> The new Warbird flyer talks about some outfit here in Lakeland Florida
> offering ACM in Iskra's. A 30 minute flight in my L-29 now costs me
> about $450 in fuel alone. How much would these guys have to charge for
> one of their ACM rides????
>
> Ernie
>
>
> On 6/23/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >
> > Anybody read the "What is ACM Anyway" article in the "latest" (April-I
just
> > got mine yesterday) issue of Warbirds? Very interesting reading! Even
> > talks about the F16 fatigue life issues, Doc.
> > Dennis
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >
> >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >
> > > Earnie,
> > > I think it was ADS not ADC. You do have to say the Boys down in Perth
do
> > > have a cool website though. Just may not have any airplanes with wings
> > > left
> > > on them though...in time.
> > > Anybody up for starting a Fighter Pilot for a day school with L-39's.
> > > L-29's or how about Iscra's? Without wings, they'll make really great
> > > "smoking holes"...Deep too. And its the damnedest thing, the VTR tape
> > > always survives the fireball to tell the story! To bad we don't have
VTR
> > > tapes on those CJ's in Perth...Oh yes, they do, but do they show the G
> > > meter and the instrument panel? Something that would be usefull at an
> > > Aircraft Accident Board. Maybe we can encourage our Perth brethern to
> > > include a camera shot of their instrumentation when they spinning up
John
> > > Q
> > > Public or for that matter maybe install a flight data recorder with
> > > multiple sensors..wings, tail, fusalage, and cockpit.
> > > If you get a chance, go to www.military.com and watch some of their
videos
> > > on the distruction of US aircraft for the sake of knowledge gained.
The
> > > CH-47 shaking itself to death due to ground resonance is quit
impressive.
> > > Doc
> > >
> > >> [Original Message]
> > >> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > >> Date: 6/23/2005 8:27:07 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >>
> > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > >>
> > >> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
> > >>
> > >> Ernie
> > >>
> > >> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >> >
> > >> > After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the
> > >> > wings
> > >> > off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that
ACM
> > > for
> > >> > John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for
us
> > >> > in
> > >> > the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM.
Our
> > > crew
> > >> > cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses
> > >> > them
> > >> > off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
> > >> > embarassment.
> > >> > I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight
to our
> > >> > community.
> > >> > Doc
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > > [Original Message]
> > >> > > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > >> > > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> > >> > <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Doc,
> > >> > > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that
you
> > > and I
> > >> > > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact
words
> > > almost
> > >> > > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your
> > > sentiments.
> > >> > All
> > >> > > it will take is one.
> > >> > > ADS (Dennis)
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > >> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this
fighter
> > >> > pilot
> > >> > > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't
get
> > > to
> > >> > be a
> > >> > > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter
pilot
> > > in a
> > >> > day
> > >> > > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18
MO. to
> > > mint
> > >> > a
> > >> > > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is
with
> > >> > > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That
includes
> > >> > giving
> > >> > > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar
> > > flies,
> > >> > bat
> > >> > > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off
steam.
> > > Yeah, I
> > >> > > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
> > > proficiently
> > >> > > > fly
> > >> > > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a
weapon.
> > >> > > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day
> > > weekend
> > >> > > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then
send
> > >> > "Bubba"
> > >> > > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned
having
> > > no
> > >> > > > clue
> > >> > > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or
what
> > >> > stress
> > >> > > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a
> > > receipt
> > >> > for
> > >> > > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK
community,
> > >> > > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west
> > > coast and
> > >> > > > only 5% of us have a passport.
> > >> > > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q
public
> > > to
> > >> > ACM.
> > >> > > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk
out
> > > after
> > >> > > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a
fact
> > > that
> > >> > > > really pisses a crew chief off.
> > >> > > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now
have
> > > a
> > >> > > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a
CJ. A
> > > cold
> > >> > > > thought I know, but ....
> > >> > > > Doc
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >> [Original Message]
> > >> > > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > >> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > >> > > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> > >> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
> > >> > > >> <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters
used
> > >> > > >> to
> > >> > work
> > >> > > > on
> > >> > > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
> > > involving
> > >> > acm
> > >> > > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned
up
> > > 0.8 FI.
> > >> > > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing
with
> > >> > > > Nanchangs
> > >> > > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
So that means I could buy a bunch of YAK 52's and start teaching US
civilians to fly the YAK using a military profile, huh? Beats the heck out
of the ol' 150 on hi density day!
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/23/2005 10:09:41 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> The regs DO allow for "Training" flights, which is the loop hole that
> these guys use. They claim that this is not a ride per se' but an
> instruction flight.
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/23/05, airshowpilot1@aol.com <airshowpilot1@aol.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: airshowpilot1@aol.com
> >
> > Commercial operations involving the carriage of passengers for hire in
any exhibition category aircraft is prohibited. The FAA will allow "media
flights" in an air show environment but only when the pilot essentially
pays for his own gas. FAA put out a policy statement on this a few years
back. The best way to shut down the whole exhibition fleet is to give the
regulating community the opportunity to point a finger and say that they
pulled the plug because too many people were abusing the privilege.
> >
> > W.A. Linscott
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > The new Warbird flyer talks about some outfit here in Lakeland Florida
> > offering ACM in Iskra's. A 30 minute flight in my L-29 now costs me
> > about $450 in fuel alone. How much would these guys have to charge for
> > one of their ACM rides????
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> >
> > On 6/23/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > >
> > > Anybody read the "What is ACM Anyway" article in the "latest"
(April-I just
> > > got mine yesterday) issue of Warbirds? Very interesting reading!
Even
> > > talks about the F16 fatigue life issues, Doc.
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >
> > > > Earnie,
> > > > I think it was ADS not ADC. You do have to say the Boys down in
Perth do
> > > > have a cool website though. Just may not have any airplanes with
wings
> > > > left
> > > > on them though...in time.
> > > > Anybody up for starting a Fighter Pilot for a day school with
L-39's.
> > > > L-29's or how about Iscra's? Without wings, they'll make really
great
> > > > "smoking holes"...Deep too. And its the damnedest thing, the VTR
tape
> > > > always survives the fireball to tell the story! To bad we don't
have VTR
> > > > tapes on those CJ's in Perth...Oh yes, they do, but do they show
the G
> > > > meter and the instrument panel? Something that would be usefull at
an
> > > > Aircraft Accident Board. Maybe we can encourage our Perth brethern
to
> > > > include a camera shot of their instrumentation when they spinning
up John
> > > > Q
> > > > Public or for that matter maybe install a flight data recorder with
> > > > multiple sensors..wings, tail, fusalage, and cockpit.
> > > > If you get a chance, go to www.military.com and watch some of their
videos
> > > > on the distruction of US aircraft for the sake of knowledge gained.
The
> > > > CH-47 shaking itself to death due to ground resonance is quit
impressive.
> > > > Doc
> > > >
> > > >> [Original Message]
> > > >> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> Date: 6/23/2005 8:27:07 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > > >>
> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez
<erniel29@gmail.com>
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ernie
> > > >>
> > > >> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > > > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull
the
> > > >> > wings
> > > >> > off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion
that ACM
> > > > for
> > > >> > John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes
for us
> > > >> > in
> > > >> > the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM.
Our
> > > > crew
> > > >> > cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really
pisses
> > > >> > them
> > > >> > off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
> > > >> > embarassment.
> > > >> > I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight
to our
> > > >> > community.
> > > >> > Doc
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > [Original Message]
> > > >> > > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > > >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> > > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> > > >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> > > >> > <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Doc,
> > > >> > > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone
that you
> > > > and I
> > > >> > > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact
words
> > > > almost
> > > >> > > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your
> > > > sentiments.
> > > >> > All
> > > >> > > it will take is one.
> > > >> > > ADS (Dennis)
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > > >> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this
fighter
> > > >> > pilot
> > > >> > > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You
don't get
> > > > to
> > > >> > be a
> > > >> > > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter
pilot
> > > > in a
> > > >> > day
> > > >> > > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18
MO. to
> > > > mint
> > > >> > a
> > > >> > > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That
is with
> > > >> > > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That
includes
> > > >> > giving
> > > >> > > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing
bar
> > > > flies,
> > > >> > bat
> > > >> > > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off
steam.
> > > > Yeah, I
> > > >> > > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
> > > > proficiently
> > > >> > > > fly
> > > >> > > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a
weapon.
> > > >> > > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day
> > > > weekend
> > > >> > > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then
send
> > > >> > "Bubba"
> > > >> > > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned
having
> > > > no
> > > >> > > > clue
> > > >> > > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail,
or what
> > > >> > stress
> > > >> > > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a
> > > > receipt
> > > >> > for
> > > >> > > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK
community,
> > > >> > > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and
west
> > > > coast and
> > > >> > > > only 5% of us have a passport.
> > > >> > > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q
public
> > > > to
> > > >> > ACM.
> > > >> > > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the
trunk out
> > > > after
> > > >> > > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for
a fact
> > > > that
> > > >> > > > really pisses a crew chief off.
> > > >> > > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we
now have
> > > > a
> > > >> > > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a
CJ. A
> > > > cold
> > > >> > > > thought I know, but ....
> > > >> > > > Doc
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >> [Original Message]
> > > >> > > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > > >> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> > > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> > > >> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
> > > >> > > >> <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters
used
> > > >> > > >> to
> > > >> > work
> > > >> > > > on
> > > >> > > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
> > > > involving
> > > >> > acm
> > > >> > > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain
burned up
> > > > 0.8 FI.
> > > >> > > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are
doing with
> > > >> > > > Nanchangs
> > > >> > > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to
anyone?
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
You're almost correct. I was going to trade in my 29 for a 39. The 39
is more fuel efficient than the 39, otherwise, you're looking at a
whole lot more money with the 39.
The 29 is so simple that annual inspections are a breeze, the 39
requires a lot more attention due to the increase in systems (APU, ABS
brakes, etc) and the costs for parts are WAY higer. Set of brakes
$4000, APU $12,000. An annual inspection for the 39 at International
Jets starts at around $4500.
Then theres the time life limited parts on the 39 depending on the
serial number of the engine you have either a 300 hr, 750 hr or 1000
hr TBO, which means throw it away, since an overhaul is over a $100k
overseas, you can get a total of 3 150 hr increases with proper
documentation. New engine...north of $60k, whereas a 0 time L-29
engine can be had for about $9500.
So the 29 is definately cheaper to own, but its all relative. And
aside from the great airconditioning, and cool electric seats, and
trim, and the looks of the 39, they fly pretty much the same.
All that said, if money were no object, I'd prefer the 39.
Ernie
Ernie
On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> That was what I was refering to earlier. They are about to bring some heavy
> weights to an airfield near you. Once they catch wind of the Boys down at
> Lakeland. They are using Iscra's, a Canadian bird (Tudor, I think ) and an
> L-39. They have it all covered except for the L-29. To answer Earnies
> question, since I just had a major wrestling match with my self over to or
> not to buy an L-39 or L-29. Ironically the operating cost was almost
> exactly the same.....$1200 (everything included, fuel for 2 hours, oil,
> wear and tear money for the engine kitty/ annual, and hangering). Decided I
> could fly my YAK- 52 for a long time on what I would have payed for 1
> sortie in the L-39. Oh that did not include the payment on the loan or the
> liability insurance.
> Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: <airshowpilot1@aol.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 6/23/2005 9:56:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: airshowpilot1@aol.com
> >
> > Commercial operations involving the carriage of passengers for hire in
> any exhibition category aircraft is prohibited. The FAA will allow "media
> flights" in an air show environment but only when the pilot essentially
> pays for his own gas. FAA put out a policy statement on this a few years
> back. The best way to shut down the whole exhibition fleet is to give the
> regulating community the opportunity to point a finger and say that they
> pulled the plug because too many people were abusing the privilege.
> >
> > W.A. Linscott
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > To: yak-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > The new Warbird flyer talks about some outfit here in Lakeland Florida
> > offering ACM in Iskra's. A 30 minute flight in my L-29 now costs me
> > about $450 in fuel alone. How much would these guys have to charge for
> > one of their ACM rides????
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> >
> > On 6/23/05, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > >
> > > Anybody read the "What is ACM Anyway" article in the "latest" (April-I
> just
> > > got mine yesterday) issue of Warbirds? Very interesting reading! Even
> > > talks about the F16 fatigue life issues, Doc.
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >
> > > > Earnie,
> > > > I think it was ADS not ADC. You do have to say the Boys down in Perth
> do
> > > > have a cool website though. Just may not have any airplanes with wings
> > > > left
> > > > on them though...in time.
> > > > Anybody up for starting a Fighter Pilot for a day school with L-39's.
> > > > L-29's or how about Iscra's? Without wings, they'll make really great
> > > > "smoking holes"...Deep too. And its the damnedest thing, the VTR tape
> > > > always survives the fireball to tell the story! To bad we don't have
> VTR
> > > > tapes on those CJ's in Perth...Oh yes, they do, but do they show the G
> > > > meter and the instrument panel? Something that would be usefull at an
> > > > Aircraft Accident Board. Maybe we can encourage our Perth brethern to
> > > > include a camera shot of their instrumentation when they spinning up
> John
> > > > Q
> > > > Public or for that matter maybe install a flight data recorder with
> > > > multiple sensors..wings, tail, fusalage, and cockpit.
> > > > If you get a chance, go to www.military.com and watch some of their
> videos
> > > > on the distruction of US aircraft for the sake of knowledge gained.
> The
> > > > CH-47 shaking itself to death due to ground resonance is quit
> impressive.
> > > > Doc
> > > >
> > > >> [Original Message]
> > > >> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> Date: 6/23/2005 8:27:07 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > > >>
> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ernie
> > > >>
> > > >> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > > >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > > > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the
> > > >> > wings
> > > >> > off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that
> ACM
> > > > for
> > > >> > John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for
> us
> > > >> > in
> > > >> > the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM.
> Our
> > > > crew
> > > >> > cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses
> > > >> > them
> > > >> > off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
> > > >> > embarassment.
> > > >> > I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight
> to our
> > > >> > community.
> > > >> > Doc
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > [Original Message]
> > > >> > > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > > >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> > > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> > > >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> > > >> > <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Doc,
> > > >> > > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that
> you
> > > > and I
> > > >> > > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact
> words
> > > > almost
> > > >> > > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your
> > > > sentiments.
> > > >> > All
> > > >> > > it will take is one.
> > > >> > > ADS (Dennis)
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > > >> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this
> fighter
> > > >> > pilot
> > > >> > > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't
> get
> > > > to
> > > >> > be a
> > > >> > > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter
> pilot
> > > > in a
> > > >> > day
> > > >> > > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18
> MO. to
> > > > mint
> > > >> > a
> > > >> > > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is
> with
> > > >> > > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That
> includes
> > > >> > giving
> > > >> > > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar
> > > > flies,
> > > >> > bat
> > > >> > > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off
> steam.
> > > > Yeah, I
> > > >> > > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
> > > > proficiently
> > > >> > > > fly
> > > >> > > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a
> weapon.
> > > >> > > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day
> > > > weekend
> > > >> > > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then
> send
> > > >> > "Bubba"
> > > >> > > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned
> having
> > > > no
> > > >> > > > clue
> > > >> > > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or
> what
> > > >> > stress
> > > >> > > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a
> > > > receipt
> > > >> > for
> > > >> > > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK
> community,
> > > >> > > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west
> > > > coast and
> > > >> > > > only 5% of us have a passport.
> > > >> > > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q
> public
> > > > to
> > > >> > ACM.
> > > >> > > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk
> out
> > > > after
> > > >> > > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a
> fact
> > > > that
> > > >> > > > really pisses a crew chief off.
> > > >> > > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now
> have
> > > > a
> > > >> > > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a
> CJ. A
> > > > cold
> > > >> > > > thought I know, but ....
> > > >> > > > Doc
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >> [Original Message]
> > > >> > > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > > >> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > >> > > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> > > >> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
> > > >> > > >> <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters
> used
> > > >> > > >> to
> > > >> > work
> > > >> > > > on
> > > >> > > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
> > > > involving
> > > >> > acm
> > > >> > > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned
> up
> > > > 0.8 FI.
> > > >> > > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing
> with
> > > >> > > > Nanchangs
> > > >> > > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | yak aircombat coming to the RPA! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
Well, no actually.
We have a Board election coming that I hope brings a lot of new blood, ideas and
motivation to the maturing RPA. The subject of "aircombat" as a tactical training
event "supported" in any way by the RPA, its website, training bulletins
or fly-ins is one issue this group deals with.
Currently, the BoD voted to remove any and all support for full-up "aircombat"
training or events, this means no training and implementation documents via web,
no RPA air combat clinics and fly-ins.
In response to the inherent desire to learn/experience/employ tactical aviation
skills, for the last several years we advocated the concept of a thinking mans
"red flag" event that we finally got off the ground and ran last year in the
California desert. This event was designed to take aviators through the combat
mission planning methodology, execute, to final debrief, with live airborne
aggressors and other crucial variables. However, it removes full up air combat
through a similiar ROE seen at actual Red Flag events. Although it was the
first run, it demonstrated its potential. The key is that 'air combat' is an
expansive title encompassing much more than two aircraft turning circles alone
for 1-2 minutes.
For those interested, this concept did not come from Nellis, which benefits from
the latest in technology and asset support. The idea for this event came from
equally challenging Special Operations joint scenerio exercises held in the
Florida panhandle encompassing several differant assets and real/simulated air/land
threats with an active C3 platform and rigid execution checklist requirements/coordination,
but no radar and only limited electronic-based ground threat
replication, and further with a program called the Advanced Tactical Training
school or "St. Joe" that used visiting ANG F-16 agressors, non-electronic
ground based threats and active, but asset-simulated airborne C3 for tactical
low level airlift asset training. Where Nellis benefits from state of the art
monitoring equipment and the employment of actual platforms (AWACS, ABCCC, JStars,
GCI, ACMI), these other programs used some very clever simulation tactics
to produce the same responsive action from the airc
rews at
considerable less cost/complexity. Something we recognized was highly applicable
to our situation in the desert with these aircraft, and no working budget
;) I hope we expand on this concept more in the future, the resultant learning
curve and expressions at the bar from attendees was worth the effort, with or
without a personal airplane. The key to the experience was the elimination
of full up aircombat engadgments, while preserving the airborne threat and their
ability to respond and have significant impact on the participants actions
and execution of the objective.
I very much hope the RPA and this community is not afflicted by the same issues
hitting the T-34 group, what a bummer to be 45 years old and my real estate or
other investment actions finally allows me to immerse myself in some of these
programs and events without a massive plane morgage and low and behold, we are
stricken by wing seperations, ACM related fatalities and FAA/NTSB type-specific
groundings. Guess I would buy an RV...
Good luck, fly safe, fly often
Drew Blahnick
RPA
---------------------------------
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Yes, that is why some of the Vipers are being stuck sticks and gate guards
now.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/23/2005 9:06:27 AM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
<dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
>
> Anybody read the "What is ACM Anyway" article in the "latest" (April-I
just
> got mine yesterday) issue of Warbirds? Very interesting reading! Even
> talks about the F16 fatigue life issues, Doc.
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
>
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Earnie,
> > I think it was ADS not ADC. You do have to say the Boys down in Perth do
> > have a cool website though. Just may not have any airplanes with wings
> > left
> > on them though...in time.
> > Anybody up for starting a Fighter Pilot for a day school with L-39's.
> > L-29's or how about Iscra's? Without wings, they'll make really great
> > "smoking holes"...Deep too. And its the damnedest thing, the VTR tape
> > always survives the fireball to tell the story! To bad we don't have VTR
> > tapes on those CJ's in Perth...Oh yes, they do, but do they show the G
> > meter and the instrument panel? Something that would be usefull at an
> > Aircraft Accident Board. Maybe we can encourage our Perth brethern to
> > include a camera shot of their instrumentation when they spinning up
John
> > Q
> > Public or for that matter maybe install a flight data recorder with
> > multiple sensors..wings, tail, fusalage, and cockpit.
> > If you get a chance, go to www.military.com and watch some of their
videos
> > on the distruction of US aircraft for the sake of knowledge gained. The
> > CH-47 shaking itself to death due to ground resonance is quit
impressive.
> > Doc
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> Date: 6/23/2005 8:27:07 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >>
> >> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >>
> >> I'm still trying to figure out who ADC is.
> >>
> >> Ernie
> >>
> >> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >> >
> >> > After watching our other aviating brethern (T-34 and T-6) pull the
> >> > wings
> >> > off their birds rather rudely, I have come to the conclusion that ACM
> > for
> >> > John Q Public is not in my best interest. I know what it takes for
us
> >> > in
> >> > the guard to give a FAM ride and that "Ain't" even close to ACM. Our
> > crew
> >> > cheifs still have to clean puke out of the jets! That really pisses
> >> > them
> >> > off. In pilot training we had to wash our own out and indure the
> >> > embarassment.
> >> > I agree with you Dennnis, We do not need to bring the FAA blight to
our
> >> > community.
> >> > Doc
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > [Original Message]
> >> > > From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> > > Date: 6/23/2005 5:30:48 AM
> >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >> > >
> >> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese"
> >> > <dsavarese@elmore.rr.com>
> >> > >
> >> > > Doc,
> >> > > I wonder where I've heard this before? Seems like someone that you
> > and I
> >> > > both know with the initials ADS had regurgitated those exact words
> > almost
> >> > > verbatim a little over a year ago. I completely echo your
> > sentiments.
> >> > All
> >> > > it will take is one.
> >> > > ADS (Dennis)
> >> > >
> >> > > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > > From: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
> >> > <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >> > > >
> >> > > > This looks all to familiar. We need to be careful with this
fighter
> >> > pilot
> >> > > > for a day thing as well as teaching our members ACM. You don't
get
> > to
> >> > be a
> >> > > > Fangs hanging, hair on fire, balls on your forehead fighter pilot
> > in a
> >> > day
> >> > > > or a few three day weekends for that matter. It takes us 18 MO.
to
> > mint
> >> > a
> >> > > > steely eyed young fledgling fighter pilot (wing man). That is
with
> >> > > > "clubbing the baby seals" 5 days a week for 24 weeks. That
includes
> >> > giving
> >> > > > them a Friday night off at the "big house for Crud, chasing bar
> > flies,
> >> > bat
> >> > > > hangings, and in general killing brain cells" to blow off steam.
> > Yeah, I
> >> > > > know it only takes about 3 weeks to teach the baby seal to
> > proficiently
> >> > > > fly
> >> > > > the plane and the rest is learning to employ the A/C as a weapon.
> >> > > > We are not going to train our RPA members to fly ACM in 3 day
> > weekend
> >> > > > clinics and achieve any level of proficiency or safety. Then send
> >> > "Bubba"
> >> > > > to his home drone to demonstrate to his buds what he learned
having
> > no
> >> > > > clue
> >> > > > as to what Rolling G is, what the physiology of G's entail, or
what
> >> > stress
> >> > > > he is introducing his already stressed wing spare to. It is a
> > receipt
> >> > for
> >> > > > disaster. That will not be good for the rest of the YAK
community,
> >> > > > particularly here where travel stops between the east and west
> > coast and
> >> > > > only 5% of us have a passport.
> >> > > > For that matter, I personally am not for introducing John Q
public
> > to
> >> > ACM.
> >> > > > Wonder how many times these blokes have had to clean the trunk
out
> > after
> >> > > > the pax puked all over himself and the airplane. I know for a
fact
> > that
> >> > > > really pisses a crew chief off.
> >> > > > But since we already have someone out there doing this, we now
have
> > a
> >> > > > barometer to see how long it will take to shuck a wing off a CJ.
A
> > cold
> >> > > > thought I know, but ....
> >> > > > Doc
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> [Original Message]
> >> > > >> From: Graeme Frew <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> >> > > >> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> >> > > >> Date: 6/22/2005 6:46:40 PM
> >> > > >> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew"
> >> > > >> <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> All good info. I'm told that our dear old BAC Strikemasters
used
> >> > > >> to
> >> > work
> >> > > > on
> >> > > >> a Fatigue Index. 80 FIs got you a major servicing. A sortie
> > involving
> >> > acm
> >> > > >> and low level in a howling westerly over NZ's terrain burned up
> > 0.8 FI.
> >> > > >> And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing
with
> >> > > > Nanchangs
> >> > > >> in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
That sounds more my speed, I really enjoyed the tac formation we did
at WayCross. This kind of stuff is more my speed, I wasnt too
comfortable with the closure rates and G's during our little BFM thing
we did here a while back (got me nausea's actually).
I would really like to see that sort of training done here in the
southeast, any more thought given to a RedStar East?????
Ernie
On 6/23/05, Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
>
> Well, no actually.
>
> We have a Board election coming that I hope brings a lot of new blood, ideas
and motivation to the maturing RPA. The subject of "aircombat" as a tactical
training event "supported" in any way by the RPA, its website, training bulletins
or fly-ins is one issue this group deals with.
>
> Currently, the BoD voted to remove any and all support for full-up "aircombat"
training or events, this means no training and implementation documents via
web, no RPA air combat clinics and fly-ins.
>
> In response to the inherent desire to learn/experience/employ tactical aviation
skills, for the last several years we advocated the concept of a thinking mans
"red flag" event that we finally got off the ground and ran last year in the
California desert. This event was designed to take aviators through the combat
mission planning methodology, execute, to final debrief, with live airborne
aggressors and other crucial variables. However, it removes full up air combat
through a similiar ROE seen at actual Red Flag events. Although it was the
first run, it demonstrated its potential. The key is that 'air combat' is an
expansive title encompassing much more than two aircraft turning circles alone
for 1-2 minutes.
>
> For those interested, this concept did not come from Nellis, which benefits from
the latest in technology and asset support. The idea for this event came
from equally challenging Special Operations joint scenerio exercises held in the
Florida panhandle encompassing several differant assets and real/simulated
air/land threats with an active C3 platform and rigid execution checklist requirements/coordination,
but no radar and only limited electronic-based ground threat
replication, and further with a program called the Advanced Tactical Training
school or "St. Joe" that used visiting ANG F-16 agressors, non-electronic
ground based threats and active, but asset-simulated airborne C3 for tactical
low level airlift asset training. Where Nellis benefits from state of the art
monitoring equipment and the employment of actual platforms (AWACS, ABCCC,
JStars, GCI, ACMI), these other programs used some very clever simulation tactics
to produce the same responsive action from the airc
> rews at
> considerable less cost/complexity. Something we recognized was highly applicable
to our situation in the desert with these aircraft, and no working budget
;) I hope we expand on this concept more in the future, the resultant learning
curve and expressions at the bar from attendees was worth the effort, with
or without a personal airplane. The key to the experience was the elimination
of full up aircombat engadgments, while preserving the airborne threat and their
ability to respond and have significant impact on the participants actions
and execution of the objective.
>
> I very much hope the RPA and this community is not afflicted by the same issues
hitting the T-34 group, what a bummer to be 45 years old and my real estate
or other investment actions finally allows me to immerse myself in some of these
programs and events without a massive plane morgage and low and behold, we
are stricken by wing seperations, ACM related fatalities and FAA/NTSB type-specific
groundings. Guess I would buy an RV...
>
> Good luck, fly safe, fly often
>
> Drew Blahnick
> RPA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Drew,
In response to shucking wings, the RV's have already ops tested that and pulled
one off during ACM. Don't know the exact cause yet though.
I agree with all you said in your previous thread. Just over G them enough and
they will come off. We had a rash of that in the 38 community for awhile ther
too.
Doc
Roger "Doc" Kemp
viperdoc@mindspring.com
If it don't sound Round...Why listen?
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Earnie,
Plan on coming to Red Air Fall Fling at Selma (KSEM) 0n 14-16 Oct 05. We
are looking at putting togather a tactical portion in the fly-in. Right now
(June 23rd) there are 18 people on the list with 2 jets in the crowd
(L-29's so far).
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/23/2005 12:01:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak aircombat coming to the RPA!
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> That sounds more my speed, I really enjoyed the tac formation we did
> at WayCross. This kind of stuff is more my speed, I wasnt too
> comfortable with the closure rates and G's during our little BFM thing
> we did here a while back (got me nausea's actually).
>
> I would really like to see that sort of training done here in the
> southeast, any more thought given to a RedStar East?????
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/23/05, Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Well, no actually.
> >
> > We have a Board election coming that I hope brings a lot of new blood,
ideas and motivation to the maturing RPA. The subject of "aircombat" as a
tactical training event "supported" in any way by the RPA, its website,
training bulletins or fly-ins is one issue this group deals with.
> >
> > Currently, the BoD voted to remove any and all support for full-up
"aircombat" training or events, this means no training and implementation
documents via web, no RPA air combat clinics and fly-ins.
> >
> > In response to the inherent desire to learn/experience/employ tactical
aviation skills, for the last several years we advocated the concept of a
thinking mans "red flag" event that we finally got off the ground and ran
last year in the California desert. This event was designed to take
aviators through the combat mission planning methodology, execute, to final
debrief, with live airborne aggressors and other crucial variables.
However, it removes full up air combat through a similiar ROE seen at
actual Red Flag events. Although it was the first run, it demonstrated its
potential. The key is that 'air combat' is an expansive title encompassing
much more than two aircraft turning circles alone for 1-2 minutes.
> >
> > For those interested, this concept did not come from Nellis, which
benefits from the latest in technology and asset support. The idea for
this event came from equally challenging Special Operations joint scenerio
exercises held in the Florida panhandle encompassing several differant
assets and real/simulated air/land threats with an active C3 platform and
rigid execution checklist requirements/coordination, but no radar and only
limited electronic-based ground threat replication, and further with a
program called the Advanced Tactical Training school or "St. Joe" that used
visiting ANG F-16 agressors, non-electronic ground based threats and
active, but asset-simulated airborne C3 for tactical low level airlift
asset training. Where Nellis benefits from state of the art monitoring
equipment and the employment of actual platforms (AWACS, ABCCC, JStars,
GCI, ACMI), these other programs used some very clever simulation tactics
to produce the same responsive action from the a!
> irc
> > rews at
> > considerable less cost/complexity. Something we recognized was highly
applicable to our situation in the desert with these aircraft, and no
working budget ;) I hope we expand on this concept more in the future, the
resultant learning curve and expressions at the bar from attendees was
worth the effort, with or without a personal airplane. The key to the
experience was the elimination of full up aircombat engadgments, while
preserving the airborne threat and their ability to respond and have
significant impact on the participants actions and execution of the
objective.
> >
> > I very much hope the RPA and this community is not afflicted by the
same issues hitting the T-34 group, what a bummer to be 45 years old and my
real estate or other investment actions finally allows me to immerse myself
in some of these programs and events without a massive plane morgage and
low and behold, we are stricken by wing seperations, ACM related fatalities
and FAA/NTSB type-specific groundings. Guess I would buy an RV...
> >
> > Good luck, fly safe, fly often
> >
> > Drew Blahnick
> > RPA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
Well I definately wont be bringing the Jet :)
Ernie
On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>
> Earnie,
> Plan on coming to Red Air Fall Fling at Selma (KSEM) 0n 14-16 Oct 05. We
> are looking at putting togather a tactical portion in the fly-in. Right now
> (June 23rd) there are 18 people on the list with 2 jets in the crowd
> (L-29's so far).
> Doc
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 6/23/2005 12:01:01 PM
> > Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak aircombat coming to the RPA!
> >
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> >
> > That sounds more my speed, I really enjoyed the tac formation we did
> > at WayCross. This kind of stuff is more my speed, I wasnt too
> > comfortable with the closure rates and G's during our little BFM thing
> > we did here a while back (got me nausea's actually).
> >
> > I would really like to see that sort of training done here in the
> > southeast, any more thought given to a RedStar East?????
> >
> > Ernie
> >
> > On 6/23/05, Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > Well, no actually.
> > >
> > > We have a Board election coming that I hope brings a lot of new blood,
> ideas and motivation to the maturing RPA. The subject of "aircombat" as a
> tactical training event "supported" in any way by the RPA, its website,
> training bulletins or fly-ins is one issue this group deals with.
> > >
> > > Currently, the BoD voted to remove any and all support for full-up
> "aircombat" training or events, this means no training and implementation
> documents via web, no RPA air combat clinics and fly-ins.
> > >
> > > In response to the inherent desire to learn/experience/employ tactical
> aviation skills, for the last several years we advocated the concept of a
> thinking mans "red flag" event that we finally got off the ground and ran
> last year in the California desert. This event was designed to take
> aviators through the combat mission planning methodology, execute, to final
> debrief, with live airborne aggressors and other crucial variables.
> However, it removes full up air combat through a similiar ROE seen at
> actual Red Flag events. Although it was the first run, it demonstrated its
> potential. The key is that 'air combat' is an expansive title encompassing
> much more than two aircraft turning circles alone for 1-2 minutes.
> > >
> > > For those interested, this concept did not come from Nellis, which
> benefits from the latest in technology and asset support. The idea for
> this event came from equally challenging Special Operations joint scenerio
> exercises held in the Florida panhandle encompassing several differant
> assets and real/simulated air/land threats with an active C3 platform and
> rigid execution checklist requirements/coordination, but no radar and only
> limited electronic-based ground threat replication, and further with a
> program called the Advanced Tactical Training school or "St. Joe" that used
> visiting ANG F-16 agressors, non-electronic ground based threats and
> active, but asset-simulated airborne C3 for tactical low level airlift
> asset training. Where Nellis benefits from state of the art monitoring
> equipment and the employment of actual platforms (AWACS, ABCCC, JStars,
> GCI, ACMI), these other programs used some very clever simulation tactics
> to produce the same responsive action from the a!
> > irc
> > > rews at
> > > considerable less cost/complexity. Something we recognized was highly
> applicable to our situation in the desert with these aircraft, and no
> working budget ;) I hope we expand on this concept more in the future, the
> resultant learning curve and expressions at the bar from attendees was
> worth the effort, with or without a personal airplane. The key to the
> experience was the elimination of full up aircombat engadgments, while
> preserving the airborne threat and their ability to respond and have
> significant impact on the participants actions and execution of the
> objective.
> > >
> > > I very much hope the RPA and this community is not afflicted by the
> same issues hitting the T-34 group, what a bummer to be 45 years old and my
> real estate or other investment actions finally allows me to immerse myself
> in some of these programs and events without a massive plane morgage and
> low and behold, we are stricken by wing seperations, ACM related fatalities
> and FAA/NTSB type-specific groundings. Guess I would buy an RV...
> > >
> > > Good luck, fly safe, fly often
> > >
> > > Drew Blahnick
> > > RPA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: yak aircombat coming to the RPA! |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
will send you the info off-line.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/23/2005 1:26:25 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak aircombat coming to the RPA!
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> Well I definately wont be bringing the Jet :)
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
<viperdoc@mindspring.com>
> >
> > Earnie,
> > Plan on coming to Red Air Fall Fling at Selma (KSEM) 0n 14-16 Oct 05. We
> > are looking at putting togather a tactical portion in the fly-in. Right
now
> > (June 23rd) there are 18 people on the list with 2 jets in the crowd
> > (L-29's so far).
> > Doc
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > > To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> > > Date: 6/23/2005 12:01:01 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Yak-List: yak aircombat coming to the RPA!
> > >
> > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > That sounds more my speed, I really enjoyed the tac formation we did
> > > at WayCross. This kind of stuff is more my speed, I wasnt too
> > > comfortable with the closure rates and G's during our little BFM thing
> > > we did here a while back (got me nausea's actually).
> > >
> > > I would really like to see that sort of training done here in the
> > > southeast, any more thought given to a RedStar East?????
> > >
> > > Ernie
> > >
> > > On 6/23/05, Drew Blahnick <lacloudchaser@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > --> Yak-List message posted by: Drew Blahnick
<lacloudchaser@yahoo.com>
> > > >
> > > > Well, no actually.
> > > >
> > > > We have a Board election coming that I hope brings a lot of new
blood,
> > ideas and motivation to the maturing RPA. The subject of "aircombat"
as a
> > tactical training event "supported" in any way by the RPA, its website,
> > training bulletins or fly-ins is one issue this group deals with.
> > > >
> > > > Currently, the BoD voted to remove any and all support for full-up
> > "aircombat" training or events, this means no training and
implementation
> > documents via web, no RPA air combat clinics and fly-ins.
> > > >
> > > > In response to the inherent desire to learn/experience/employ
tactical
> > aviation skills, for the last several years we advocated the concept of
a
> > thinking mans "red flag" event that we finally got off the ground and
ran
> > last year in the California desert. This event was designed to take
> > aviators through the combat mission planning methodology, execute, to
final
> > debrief, with live airborne aggressors and other crucial variables.
> > However, it removes full up air combat through a similiar ROE seen at
> > actual Red Flag events. Although it was the first run, it demonstrated
its
> > potential. The key is that 'air combat' is an expansive title
encompassing
> > much more than two aircraft turning circles alone for 1-2 minutes.
> > > >
> > > > For those interested, this concept did not come from Nellis, which
> > benefits from the latest in technology and asset support. The idea for
> > this event came from equally challenging Special Operations joint
scenerio
> > exercises held in the Florida panhandle encompassing several differant
> > assets and real/simulated air/land threats with an active C3 platform
and
> > rigid execution checklist requirements/coordination, but no radar and
only
> > limited electronic-based ground threat replication, and further with a
> > program called the Advanced Tactical Training school or "St. Joe" that
used
> > visiting ANG F-16 agressors, non-electronic ground based threats and
> > active, but asset-simulated airborne C3 for tactical low level airlift
> > asset training. Where Nellis benefits from state of the art monitoring
> > equipment and the employment of actual platforms (AWACS, ABCCC, JStars,
> > GCI, ACMI), these other programs used some very clever simulation
tactics
> > to produce the same responsive action from the a!
> > > irc
> > > > rews at
> > > > considerable less cost/complexity. Something we recognized was
highly
> > applicable to our situation in the desert with these aircraft, and no
> > working budget ;) I hope we expand on this concept more in the future,
the
> > resultant learning curve and expressions at the bar from attendees was
> > worth the effort, with or without a personal airplane. The key to the
> > experience was the elimination of full up aircombat engadgments, while
> > preserving the airborne threat and their ability to respond and have
> > significant impact on the participants actions and execution of the
> > objective.
> > > >
> > > > I very much hope the RPA and this community is not afflicted by the
> > same issues hitting the T-34 group, what a bummer to be 45 years old
and my
> > real estate or other investment actions finally allows me to immerse
myself
> > in some of these programs and events without a massive plane morgage and
> > low and behold, we are stricken by wing seperations, ACM related
fatalities
> > and FAA/NTSB type-specific groundings. Guess I would buy an RV...
> > > >
> > > > Good luck, fly safe, fly often
> > > >
> > > > Drew Blahnick
> > > > RPA
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
Really? The last time I was at Deer Valley (about a year ago) there were
two canibalized hulks there, three or four flat-tired, leaking derelicts,
and an L-39MS that you hadn't been able to even start let alone fly. You
guys have made trememdous progress. How big is your maintenance staff?
And just for the record, what are the N-numbers of the ten that are cabable
of flying today?
> Think how worried the feds would be if Worldwide Warbirds had ten
> FLYING
> L-39s on the ramp...
Uh, we do.....
Barry
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
1-866-L39-JETS
cell (949) 300-5510
Message 22
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
Jerry,
That was a very thoughful and insightful post. I appologize if I was
supposed to be offended.
I got the service bulletin from the Chinese aviation bureau, and yes there
are lots of them. Most are about as significant as the ones the FAA issues.
The tail spar mod is important, after that the significance trails off
rapidly. The CJ-6 is as fine a plane as has ever been built and unless you
do something incredibly stupid it will survive you and your grandkids.
You are correct that the service bulletins are long. Chinese is a flowery,
romantic, artful language with lots of allegory and fanciful symbolism.
Chinese has to be the worst language in the known universe for communicating
technical information. They don't have latin roots, prefixes, and suffixes
to build technical terms so you get a pile of idiograms that literally
translate into "the switch that floats like a butterfly on a mountain
stream". The Russian pilots "helping" the Chinese (not that anyone can
prove it) in the Korean war complained long and loud to Moscow about this.
The second problem with Chinese service bulletins is that they are issued by
bureaucrats, not engineers. One of the great unanswered questions of our
time is whether backward, unsophisticated, tin-horn, third-world bureaucrats
are more or less incompetent than the polically-appointed,
employed-for-life, affirmative action, minority-preference, first-world
bureaucrats of technologically-advanced countries.
I hope you aren't advocating a system of legally-required ADs for
experimental planes. Networking among the owners is an altogether adequate
way to find problems. This unfortunately mean that sometimes one guy has to
crash for the rest of you to find out about the problem, but then isn't that
how the FAA finds problems to issue ADs about? Airbus rudder falls off- FAA
issues Airbus rudder AD, DC-9 crashes because of galled trim jackscrew- FAA
issues DC-9 jackscrew AD, etc.
The unofficial system at least lets technically adept owners determine
whether to install the fix. If you're around T-34 owners, I'd bet you hear
them say the AD is unjustified. This is just whining. The T-34 guys could
surrender their standard airworthiness certificates and go to
experimental-exhibition or R&D. This would eliminate a lot of regulatory
issues. It would get them back in the air and save a lot of money on this
AD they call unnecessary. It wouldn't solve the root problem that
Beechcraft wings were breaking off 40 years ago and still are though.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Yak/CJ Spar inspections |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Vance Cochrane <vec@ecochrane.com>
With all this discussion revolving around ACM in these airplanes I
don't think anyone has mentioned spar inspections. I have 2 questions
regarding this.
[1] How easy is it to inspect the spar?
[2] How easy is it to get to the wing attach bolts, and can they be
easily removed for a magnaflux inspection?
--
Vance Cochrane Email: vec@ecochrane.com
Message 24
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--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
Maybe the reason Americans don't have passports is because they can drive
more than two hours without needing a passport. Or falling in the ocean.
Also, they can throughout most of the North American continent without a
passport. Like you can, now that England is a state of EU and you can
travel, move, and work all over the planet's sixth largest continent (of
seven).
If England were a US state (and I don't advocate this), it would rank 32nd
in size of the then-51 states.
>Realy!!!! Is that not a blinkered view again :>)) and another thing, why is
>it that only 5% of Americans have a passport? Is it because 95% think the
>world stops at east and west coast?
>
>Br, MJ
Don't take it seriously. None of us will get out of here alive.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: mmo,s ufo's, pto.s, etc.. |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
Is that it? I was wondering why UFO sightings dropped off about the time
everyone started carrying a video camera.
>PS: UFO's do exist, it's just that they have cloaking devices now. I also
>have this prime piece of Florida> >"conservation area" for sale too....
>
>Craig Payne
>cpayne@joimail.com
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
That doesn't ruin my day. We'll get some good data if their wings start
breaking off.
>--> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew" <gfrew@attglobal.net>
>And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
>Nanchangs
>in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
That advisory circular was a draft, and never issued. Unfortunately for
John & Sid who were going to make the big bucks on engine inspections.
>Then theres the time life limited parts on the 39 depending on the
>serial number of the engine you have either a 300 hr, 750 hr or 1000
>hr TBO, which means throw it away, since an overhaul is over a $100k
>overseas, you can get a total of 3 150 hr increases with proper
>documentation. New engine...north of $60k, whereas a 0 time L-29
>engine can be had for about $9500.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Yak/CJ Spar inspections |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
Vance,
The wing spar bolts are easy to get to. They could easily be removed to
magna flux, But when you take one look at the main bolt and the other two
stabalizing bolts, you'll wounder why you wanted to magna flux it. To get
to them just pull the inspection plate off the wing root or completely
remove the wing root filet. That depends on the year model you have. There
are also inspection panels along the bottom of the wing that give you
access to the spar. A good long bore scope could get you a good look at
most of the spar.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Vance Cochrane <vec@ecochrane.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/23/2005 7:49:12 PM
> Subject: Yak-List: Yak/CJ Spar inspections
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Vance Cochrane <vec@ecochrane.com>
>
> With all this discussion revolving around ACM in these airplanes I
> don't think anyone has mentioned spar inspections. I have 2 questions
> regarding this.
> [1] How easy is it to inspect the spar?
> [2] How easy is it to get to the wing attach bolts, and can they be
> easily removed for a magnaflux inspection?
> --
> Vance Cochrane Email: vec@ecochrane.com
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp" <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
A cold man sharing my view. As long as they ops check the wing shucking
outside of the country that ends at the east and west coast and only 5% of
us have a passport.
Doc
> [Original Message]
> From: Ron Davis <l39parts@hotmail.com>
> To: <yak-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 6/23/2005 8:22:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Yak-List: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Ron Davis" <l39parts@hotmail.com>
>
> That doesn't ruin my day. We'll get some good data if their wings start
> breaking off.
>
>
> >--> Yak-List message posted by: "Graeme Frew" <gfrew@attglobal.net>
> >And to completely ruin your day check out what they are doing with
> >Nanchangs
> >in Perth, Australia at www.fciwa.com Look familiar to anyone?
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: T-34 Article in Aviation Consumer |
--> Yak-List message posted by: Barry Hancock <barry@flyredstar.org>
Gang,
While Ernie was certainly not throwing grenades (this time... ;) ),
there's a little more difference between the L-29 and the L-39 than has
been stated. Without getting into specifics (contact me off list if
you're interested), here's some more info:
True, the L-29 is a more affordable aircraft to purchase and parts are
cheap. The market simply dictates the price...there's a reason L-29's
are inexpensive. To put it simply, the designers of the L-39 took
everywhere the -29 fell short and made substantial improvements. Not
only does the -39 has much better ergonomics (raised rear seat, roomy
cockpit that can easily accommodate a 6' back seater, climate control
system, etc.), it has automatic backup systems (loose electrical? The
APU automatically extends, etc.) and triple redundancy in important
areas. ABS is no small matter when you're talking about 8-10,000 lbs
and a touch down speed of almost 100 kts. All emergency systems on the
-39 are much improved, and there's a full annunciator panel with
caution and warning lights for just about everything that could go
wrong. The range of the -29 is about half that of the -39. Then
there's 2 axis electric trim V. a manual elevator trim on the -29.
This is just the short list.
As far as cost of operation, over the course of 50 hours per year
(which is average for active jet warbird pilots) and all things being
equal your total bill (hull insurance aside) is going to be pretty
close to even. They both have their place, but the overall experience
of the L-39 is in a different class than the -29...and it should be as
the technologies employed are almost 2 decades apart.
While I'm an obvious advocate of the -39, we can also supply overhauled
L-29's to anyone interested... ;) They are both great trainer jets
with straight up honest flying qualities and wonderful aircraft....from
two different eras.
Now, all that being said I'm really looking forward to the Rocky
Mountain Fly In this weekend. Jeff Pritchard is being generous and
letting me fly his stock CJ in the show....same set up as the first
warbird I ever flew and I'm waxing nostalgic......
Cheers,
Barry
Barry Hancock
President/CEO
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
1-866-L39-JETS
cell (949) 300-5510
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
www.sharedsquadrons.com
On Jun 23, 2005, at 10:10 AM, Doug Sapp wrote:
>
> --> Yak-List message posted by: Ernest Martinez <erniel29@gmail.com>
>
> You're almost correct. I was going to trade in my 29 for a 39. The 39
> is more fuel efficient than the 39, otherwise, you're looking at a
> whole lot more money with the 39.
>
> The 29 is so simple that annual inspections are a breeze, the 39
> requires a lot more attention due to the increase in systems (APU, ABS
> brakes, etc) and the costs for parts are WAY higer. Set of brakes
> $4000, APU $12,000. An annual inspection for the 39 at International
> Jets starts at around $4500.
>
> Then theres the time life limited parts on the 39 depending on the
> serial number of the engine you have either a 300 hr, 750 hr or 1000
> hr TBO, which means throw it away, since an overhaul is over a $100k
> overseas, you can get a total of 3 150 hr increases with proper
> documentation. New engine...north of $60k, whereas a 0 time L-29
> engine can be had for about $9500.
>
> So the 29 is definately cheaper to own, but its all relative. And
> aside from the great airconditioning, and cool electric seats, and
> trim, and the looks of the 39, they fly pretty much the same.
>
> All that said, if money were no object, I'd prefer the 39.
>
> Ernie
>
> Ernie
>
> On 6/23/05, Roger Doc Kemp <viperdoc@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Roger Doc Kemp"
>> <viperdoc@mindspring.com>
>>
>> That was what I was refering to earlier. They are about to bring some
> heavy
>> weights to an airfield near you. Once they catch wind of the Boys
>> down at
>> Lakeland. They are using Iscra's, a Canadian bird (Tudor, I think )
>> and an
>> L-39. They have it all covered except for the L-29. To answer Earnies
>> question, since I just had a major wrestling match with my self over
>> to or
>> not to buy an L-39 or L-29. Ironically the operating cost was almost
>> exactly the same.....$1200 (everything included, fuel for 2 hours,
>> oil,
>> wear and tear money for the engine kitty/ annual, and hangering).
>> Decided
> I
>> could fly my YAK- 52 for a long time on what I would have payed for 1
>> sortie in the L-39. Oh that did not include the payment on the loan
>> or the
>> liability insurance.
>> Doc
>>
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